Time Off From Teaching

[ivan96822]

I think somebody has quoted salaries a little less than 130,000 baht per month. I have heard of 120,000, but I have also heard of 90,000.

The jobs at the true international schools are good positions and they are not all that easy to get.

A lot of people hired from overseas still have bills in their home country. These can include a mortgage, car payment etc., thus a lot of companies pay such high salaries. The expectation is that you will not remain in a foreign country forever.

Sounds generous, still. My mortgage is under $1000/US/month....

How much for a clean, decent, one-bedroom apartment in Sukhumvit (in the lower sois, 2 - 16)? $600/US/month?

[tonititan]

Okay, Sly, forgive me if you feel this confrontational...BUT...I can not believe that they would pay that exorbitant amount (130K ThB) a month. Period. I went to Pattaya, and once my toes hit the sand, some slick came up and told me that I had won some type of lottery. I ain't buying it.

If that salary is true, as you mentioned, Thailand obviously beckons the licensed teacher's way. I am making a quarter of that here in the States, and am enjoying my lifestyle. This begs the question, then: if it is so great there in BKK (which I know it is very okay, as I stayed there and enjoyed the lifestyle, temperament, etc), why are they throwing such big fish in towards qualified applicants? Luring Westerners to an extremely polluted capital city that happens to be conveniently located to tremendous nightlife, fabulous (though sticky) weather, and other exotic delights?

Please respond with some particularly specific details. Thanks again for (if you did) actually reading this post.

Yes, it is true, but only at a few of the very best schools. The salaries go down from there. It may seem like a lot (and I know that it is compared to Thai salaries or other teaching salaries in Thailand, but it's not THAT much. I certainly wouldn't call it exorbitant. If you're making 130k baht/month, that puts you in the 30% tax range (or you may luck out and squeak by in the 20% range). So you're only bringing home maybe 90 or 100k/month. Some schools provide housing, some don't. Assumig yours doesn't, you can possibly deduct maybe 20k month for rent & utilities. (Yes, you can live more cheaply than that. But the majority of expat international school teachers aren't here to "rough it" and live Thai-style in a 5000 baht/month apartment.) But technically, yes, you could live more cheaply and save money. You could also spend much more than 20k on living expenses. I don't want to start another debate about how much money people should spend on rent, or how much money is needed to live comfortably in BKK. There are plenty of threads about that. I'm just telling you that I work in an international school, and I have friends at a few other international schools in BKK. Most spend in the 13,000 - 25,000 baht range for an apartment or house. Most are here to live a better lifestyle than they could live back at home.

So now after deducting rent, you're down to maybe 80k. Like someone mentioned, a lot of international school teachers have mortages, cars, rental units, student loans, credit card bills, etc. back at home. So if you are lucky and your mortgage is only $1000, that's another 30k you're out, bringing you down to 50k. Many people I work with have to send home more than 30k, though. You can definitely live very well off that 50k for food, entertainment, travel, shopping, transportation, household expenses, phone bills, a maid, etc. That's about $1600 - more disposable income than most teachers in the US are used to having. But it's certainly not enough to make you rich, especially if you travel around Asia during every school break as most teachers do. And schools seem to like hiring married teaching couples with children, which of course adds substantial living expenses. Finally, the years you work overseas don't contribute to your teacher retirement fund in the US, so it's wise to put money into savings or into a personal retirement fund while you're over here - that eats into the extra money as well.

I'm also wondering about your math. You said that you make a quarter of the 130k salary in the US. 130k/month is roughly $52,000/year - and that's before taxes. Do you really make only $13,000 per year BEFORE taxes in the US? I find THAT hard to believe.

As others have mentioned, jobs at the schools that pay like this are highly competitive, and you'd be extremely lucky to get a job at one of the best BKK schools right off the bat. Depending on your position, you may be competing against hundreds of other qualified applicants. I'd suggest that you don't put all your eggs in one basket, and instead be open to jobs in other countries. Sometimes you have to take what you can get your first time, then with international experience you will be considered more valuable if you look for a new job in a few years. Most teachers I know did not necessarily go into the job fairs aiming for a Thailand job. If you do that, there's a good chance you'll be disappointed. Instead, they went into the fairs looking for a good job, a good school, an attractive benefits package, and a chance at adventure, and they happened to end up at a school in Thailand.

To answer some of your earlier questions: Yes, I love my job. If you enjoy teaching at home, you'll enjoy it here. The opposite is probably true as well. If you want to work at one of these schools, be prepared to work extremely hard. Schools don't pay 130k/month for no reason. Most teachers I know find their jobs in Thailand to be just as, if not more intense than in the US. Yes, class sizes are smaller and students are generally much better behaved. Teachers aren't constantly worried about being sued or fired like in the US. However, teachers who try to slide by on a minimal amount of effort generally don't last very long. At my school, you're probably teaching about 6 hours out of an 8 hour school day. Yes, you also have preps, but you also have an unbelieveable amount of additional work & meetings - way more than I ever had in the States. Teachers generally don't have any "free" time, because we spend our time working on curriculum development, professional development, school initiatives, accredidation, communication with parents, researching best practice, putting lesson plans online, team meetings, departmental meetings, school-wide meetings, student meetings, etc, etc, etc. We are often expected to stay after school for additional meetings and trainings. Most of us prefer working overseas to working in the States, but I would never call it an "easy" job. Be prepared to work your tail off. The benefits of living overseas and exploring the world just happen to outweigh the work.

[ivan96822]

Okay, Sly, forgive me if you feel this confrontational...BUT...I can not believe that they would pay that exorbitant amount (130K ThB) a month. Period. I went to Pattaya, and once my toes hit the sand, some slick came up and told me that I had won some type of lottery. I ain't buying it.

If that salary is true, as you mentioned, Thailand obviously beckons the licensed teacher's way. I am making a quarter of that here in the States, and am enjoying my lifestyle. This begs the question, then: if it is so great there in BKK (which I know it is very okay, as I stayed there and enjoyed the lifestyle, temperament, etc), why are they throwing such big fish in towards qualified applicants? Luring Westerners to an extremely polluted capital city that happens to be conveniently located to tremendous nightlife, fabulous (though sticky) weather, and other exotic delights?

Please respond with some particularly specific details. Thanks again for (if you did) actually reading this post.

Yes, it is true, but only at a few of the very best schools. The salaries go down from there. It may seem like a lot (and I know that it is compared to Thai salaries or other teaching salaries in Thailand, but it's not THAT much. I certainly wouldn't call it exorbitant. If you're making 130k baht/month, that puts you in the 30% tax range (or you may luck out and squeak by in the 20% range). So you're only bringing home maybe 90 or 100k/month. Some schools provide housing, some don't. Assumig yours doesn't, you can possibly deduct maybe 20k month for rent & utilities. (Yes, you can live more cheaply than that. But the majority of expat international school teachers aren't here to "rough it" and live Thai-style in a 5000 baht/month apartment.) But technically, yes, you could live more cheaply and save money. You could also spend much more than 20k on living expenses. I don't want to start another debate about how much money people should spend on rent, or how much money is needed to live comfortably in BKK. There are plenty of threads about that. I'm just telling you that I work in an international school, and I have friends at a few other international schools in BKK. Most spend in the 13,000 - 25,000 baht range for an apartment or house. Most are here to live a better lifestyle than they could live back at home.

So now after deducting rent, you're down to maybe 80k. Like someone mentioned, a lot of international school teachers have mortages, cars, rental units, student loans, credit card bills, etc. back at home. So if you are lucky and your mortgage is only $1000, that's another 30k you're out, bringing you down to 50k. Many people I work with have to send home more than 30k, though. You can definitely live very well off that 50k for food, entertainment, travel, shopping, transportation, household expenses, phone bills, a maid, etc. That's about $1600 - more disposable income than most teachers in the US are used to having. But it's certainly not enough to make you rich, especially if you travel around Asia during every school break as most teachers do. And schools seem to like hiring married teaching couples with children, which of course adds substantial living expenses. Finally, the years you work overseas don't contribute to your teacher retirement fund in the US, so it's wise to put money into savings or into a personal retirement fund while you're over here - that eats into the extra money as well.

I'm also wondering about your math. You said that you make a quarter of the 130k salary in the US. 130k/month is roughly $52,000/year - and that's before taxes. Do you really make only $13,000 per year BEFORE taxes in the US? I find THAT hard to believe.

As others have mentioned, jobs at the schools that pay like this are highly competitive, and you'd be extremely lucky to get a job at one of the best BKK schools right off the bat. Depending on your position, you may be competing against hundreds of other qualified applicants. I'd suggest that you don't put all your eggs in one basket, and instead be open to jobs in other countries. Sometimes you have to take what you can get your first time, then with international experience you will be considered more valuable if you look for a new job in a few years. Most teachers I know did not necessarily go into the job fairs aiming for a Thailand job. If you do that, there's a good chance you'll be disappointed. Instead, they went into the fairs looking for a good job, a good school, an attractive benefits package, and a chance at adventure, and they happened to end up at a school in Thailand.

To answer some of your earlier questions: Yes, I love my job. If you enjoy teaching at home, you'll enjoy it here. The opposite is probably true as well. If you want to work at one of these schools, be prepared to work extremely hard. Schools don't pay 130k/month for no reason. Most teachers I know find their jobs in Thailand to be just as, if not more intense than in the US. Yes, class sizes are smaller and students are generally much better behaved. Teachers aren't constantly worried about being sued or fired like in the US. However, teachers who try to slide by on a minimal amount of effort generally don't last very long. At my school, you're probably teaching about 6 hours out of an 8 hour school day. Yes, you also have preps, but you also have an unbelieveable amount of additional work & meetings - way more than I ever had in the States. Teachers generally don't have any "free" time, because we spend our time working on curriculum development, professional development, school initiatives, accredidation, communication with parents, researching best practice, putting lesson plans online, team meetings, departmental meetings, school-wide meetings, student meetings, etc, etc, etc. We are often expected to stay after school for additional meetings and trainings. Most of us prefer working overseas to working in the States, but I would never call it an "easy" job. Be prepared to work your tail off. The benefits of living overseas and exploring the world just happen to outweigh the work.

Thanks for the detailed response. One of your questions confused me, though ("Do you really make $13,000 per year BEFORE taxes in the US?"). I am assuming that you mean, do I really make $130,000 Thai baht per year? As it stands, I make approximately $50,000 USD per year as a high school teacher. While I could earn a higher income in other states, I prefer the state that I am in for innumerable reasons. I am also single and own my own condo with no credit cards and a simple, relatively low-cost lifestyle (including a very decent mortgage payment). So I manage to get by on what I am paid.

If I am interested in working in Bangkok, I see absolutely no point in going to some other place to teach first. My experience in the U.S. is invaluable, and though I have not taught internationally, I see my qualifications, background, and reputation to be as good as any. I would not be interested in the Middle East, Vietnam, Japan, South America, etc.

As for the hard work, as a teacher, that is what I do on a daily basis. I teach themes, motifs, and symbolism in Shakespeare's works; elements of poetry; short stories; and mostly canonical literature stretching from Beowulf to Raymond Carver. I wouldn't be there to cut corners and split campus once the bell rings. The other duties that you mentioned, such as meetings, curriculum planning, team meetings, etc. come with the package of being a teacher. However, I must ask this: when and how often do such meetings pop up? For example, where I work now, we have one department meeting per week (Wednesday mornings) that run anywhere from ten minutes to fifty minutes. We have school-wide meetings approximately once or twice a month (on Wednesdays) that usually last from 2:10 to 3:00 on the dot (we are officially free after 3:00, though most teachers stay later to do what they do). I take a professional development course every semester (which are free and either online or meet once every three months for approximately two hours per session). So how does that compare to Thailand? Also, you mention that teachers rarely have any "free time." What, are you stuck there till 8:00, 9:00 at night? Please respond. Also, what about your Friday and Saturday nights? Aren't you free then?

Regarding rent, if I could have a decent one-bedroom apartment in the Sukhumvit area for $300 - 500 US per month, I would be fine with that. I do not need a whole bunch of frills, but A/C would probably be mandatory for my personal comfort.

Again, thanks for the detailed response, and send me back some concrete and specific details to my inquiries.

[Scott]

The teachers at the international schools are some of the best of the best. I don't know many, but I do know that one who left our school for an international school said that the work load was overwhelming, compared to our school. The salary was great.

I know another teacher who left an international school and works for a bilingual school. There were numerous reasons for this, none having to do with him being dismissed etc. He also said the work load was high, but the salary was more than enough to compensate. He is a top notch teacher.

You will be working in a multi-cultural mileu. That means extra effort on communication--and that means the staff meeting will not finish at 3:00 sharp. It will finish when it is done. You will be dealing with parents who are paying a LOT of money to send their children to your school and they have high expectations. The parents are very well educated people for the most part. For example, we write a short note to the parents about their child's progress once a term; one teacher wrote them once a week.

These are private schools. I recall seeing the congratulations in the local newspaper for ISB. Their students were headed to places like, Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, MIT etc. I believe Timothy Geithner (spelling?), graduated from ISB.

I suggest taking a look at the web pages for some of the schools.

[tonititan]

Thanks for the detailed response. One of your questions confused me, though ("Do you really make $13,000 per year BEFORE taxes in the US?"). I am assuming that you mean, do I really make $130,000 Thai baht per year? As it stands, I make approximately $50,000 USD per year as a high school teacher. While I could earn a higher income in other states, I prefer the state that I am in for innumerable reasons. I am also single and own my own condo with no credit cards and a simple, relatively low-cost lifestyle (including a very decent mortgage payment). So I manage to get by on what I am paid.

No, I meant what I said. I'm wondering if you've had some confusion/misinformation about the exchange rate. Right now it's been fluctuating between 30 and 31 baht to the dollar. So 130,000 baht/month is around $4300 (USD)/month, or $52,000/year. So really, you'd likely be making the same, or less (since some international schools pay significantly less than 130k/month) in Thailand than you do in the US. You certainly won't be making an "exorbitant" 4x what you make now....not sure where the math went wrong on that one.

If I am interested in working in Bangkok, I see absolutely no point in going to some other place to teach first. My experience in the U.S. is invaluable, and

though I have not taught internationally, I see my qualifications, background, and reputation to be as good as any. I would not be interested in the Middle East, Vietnam, Japan, South America, etc.

That's fine if you want to aim for Bangkok - I was merely explaining that there's a decent chance that if you limit your search to Bangkok, you might not get a position at a high-paying school the first time you apply. There is SERIOUS competition for those jobs, especially as a high school English teacher. Those aren't considered "hard to fill" positions. Of course everyone has to get their first international job somewhere, so of course it's not impossible. But just being a great teacher in the US isn't necessarily enough to land you a good position. I am friends with some administrators (who do the hiring) at a couple international schools in BKK, and I've questioned them about what they are looking for. Prior international experience and IB experience/certification (at the high school level) are two of the biggies. Just be prepared to be competing against tons of other teachers who have amazing qualifications, experience, and reputations, AND have the other two items I mentioned.

As for the hard work, as a teacher, that is what I do on a daily basis. I teach themes, motifs, and symbolism in Shakespeare's works; elements of poetry; short

stories; and mostly canonical literature stretching from Beowulf to Raymond Carver. I wouldn't be there to cut corners and split campus once the bell rings.

The other duties that you mentioned, such as meetings, curriculum planning, team meetings, etc. come with the package of being a teacher. However, I must ask

this: when and how often do such meetings pop up? For example, where I work now, we have one department meeting per week (Wednesday mornings) that run anywhere from ten minutes to fifty minutes. We have school-wide meetings approximately once or twice a month (on Wednesdays) that usually last from 2:10 to 3:00 on the dot (we are officially free after 3:00, though most teachers stay later to do what they do). I take a professional development course every semester (which

are free and either online or meet once every three months for approximately two hours per session). So how does that compare to Thailand?

I have at least 4-5 meetings per week, sometimes more. Some are before school, during the school day, or after school. Professional development is a couple times a month. My point was just that at the best international schools, there is a lot of work outside of teaching - way more "extra" work that I ever encountered in the US. You've made comments that teachers who bring work home have no lives and that they are "amateurs." You may feel that way, but I'd keep it to yourself when it comes to interacting with potential employers. That kind of attitude isn't going to help win you any jobs over here. The majority of international school teachers DO bring work home, and it is expected that you will be working a lot. Like Scott said, parents are paying a fortune to send their kids to these schools, so a lot more is expected of teachers.

Also, you mention that teachers rarely have any "free time." What, are you stuck there till 8:00, 9:00 at night? Please respond. Also, what about your Friday and Saturday nights? Aren't you free then?

Come on, you don't really think I was implying that teachers are at school until 9:00 p.m. and on weekends, do you? I meant free time at work. Every minute of non-teaching time seems to be filled up with meetings and other obligations, so there is little down time. That's one of the reasons why many teachers do have to stay late and/or bring work home.

[ivan96822]

So, then...what time do you typically leave work in the afternoon? Any information on a decent, one-bedroom apartment in the Sukhumvit area for $300 - 500 USD per month?