Qantas Grounds Entire Fleet In 'Unbelievable' Step

[Bizz]

Union members can demand all they want, but may soon find themselves looking for work.

The unions demands will be watched closely as a wider clamp down will take effect all over Aus in the next 3 years as demand for commodities from Aus dwindles as China slows down.

Ryanair to fight for costs after unions 'chicken out'

My link

A TOP Ryanair official told pilots that, instead of spending money on a trade union, they could waste it on "fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing".

Ryanair say pilot trade union 'a waste'

"At least you'll have a few minutes of fun, which is more than you'll have with BALPA," he said.

My link

[outofoz]

Does anyone really think that any cost saving the airline makes, at the expense of its workers, that these will be passed onto the consumer? They will be putting those savings back into their own fat remuneration packages and perhaps (only perhaps) more dividends for shareholders)

QANTAS has been making good money the last few years while many other airlines have suffered.. If QANTAS becomes just another budget airline, what becomes the primary incentive to fly it? Their safety record and service has held them in the past. Service might have slipped, and the way they are trying to save money safety might next.

I have no problems with anyone making a profit, and a good profit. But where does it stop? It seems whatever profit is made, it is never enough. This is particularly a recent trend, say the last ten years.

A few weeks back I booked with Emirates in November because of this ongoing industrial action and didn't want to get caught in it.

I feel for all those people who are stranded by this (as the title says) 'unbelievable' strike action...

[chooka]

People will start crying now that they don't have jobs and qantas will move offshore, Instead of people appreciating what they they are getting .

There are a lot of people earn a hell of a lot less than airline employees and accept it.

Thier jobs aren't safe and they will loose them when qantas doe's move off shore. Qantas owns 37% of Tour East Thailand, this is the company in Bangkok already recruiting and training future staff from Thailand to eventually take over from the Aussie workers. Qantas have been planning this for years

[Wallaby]

People will start crying now that they don't have jobs and qantas will move offshore, Instead of people appreciating what they they are getting .

There are a lot of people earn a hell of a lot less than airline employees and accept it.

Thier jobs aren't safe and they will loose them when qantas doe's move off shore. Qantas owns 37% of Tour East Thailand, this is the company in Bangkok already recruiting and training future staff from Thailand to eventually take over from the Aussie workers. Qantas have been planning this for years

That is exactly what is happening. Qantas was axing 1000 jobs in oz anyway. They were going to be basically run from overseas in the near future anyway so the employees really had nothing to lose.

Another issue for Qantas, on top of the employee strikes causing them havoc lately is that oz customs were also striking. So when Qantas workers were actually working the customs people went out. Just caused headache after headache.

Seems Qantas is going to go the same as Telstra. Have an overseas bred CEO that doesn't quite know the ins and outs of doing business in oz and that the govt can intervene because of 'national interest'. The govt 'interference' is a difficult concept for them to grasp so after a couple of years they just up and leave after reaping the rewards and leave others to pick up the pieces.

[OzMick]

Union members can demand all they want, but may soon find themselves looking for work.

The unions demands will be watched closely as a wider clamp down will take effect all over Aus in the next 3 years as demand for commodities from Aus dwindles as China slows down.

Ryanair to fight for costs after unions 'chicken out'

My link

A TOP Ryanair official told pilots that, instead of spending money on a trade union, they could waste it on "fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing".

Ryanair say pilot trade union 'a waste'

"At least you'll have a few minutes of fun, which is more than you'll have with BALPA," he said.

My link

Michael O'Leary goes into a Heathrow bar and asks the bartender how much for a pint of Guiness.

"1 Pound, Sir."

"That's a bloody good price, I'll have one."

The bartender takes the pound, rings up the till then closes it.

"Now Sir, would you be wanting a glass with that pint of Guiness?"

[softgeorge]

People will start crying now that they don't have jobs and qantas will move offshore, Instead of people appreciating what they they are getting .

There are a lot of people earn a hell of a lot less than airline employees and accept it.

Thier jobs aren't safe and they will loose them when qantas doe's move off shore. Qantas owns 37% of Tour East Thailand, this is the company in Bangkok already recruiting and training future staff from Thailand to eventually take over from the Aussie workers. Qantas have been planning this for years

That is exactly what is happening. Qantas was axing 1000 jobs in oz anyway. They were going to be basically run from overseas in the near future anyway so the employees really had nothing to lose.

Another issue for Qantas, on top of the employee strikes causing them havoc lately is that oz customs were also striking. So when Qantas workers were actually working the customs people went out. Just caused headache after headache.

Seems Qantas is going to go the same as Telstra. Have an overseas bred CEO that doesn't quite know the ins and outs of doing business in oz and that the govt can intervene because of 'national interest'. The govt 'interference' is a difficult concept for them to grasp so after a couple of years they just up and leave after reaping the rewards and leave others to pick up the pieces.

Qantas already have overseas bred senior management, The CEO is an irishman even the public relations girl is a yank. They are axing more than 1000 jobs they want to get rid of everyone and move everything offshore, 35,000 jobs spread across Singapore and Thailand. The only thing about it that will be aussie will be the Kangaroo on the tail but cost cutting will eventually see that reduced to a wallaby.

[Wallaby]

Michael O'Leary goes into a Heathrow bar and asks the bartender how much for a pint of Guiness.

"1 Pound, Sir."

"That's a bloody good price, I'll have one."

The bartender takes the pound, rings up the till then closes it.

"Now Sir, would you be wanting a glass with that pint of Guiness?"

hahahhaa, I hope you don't mind if I use that. Quite tickled my fancy.

[exona]

I'm shocked by the tone of many of these posts. I'm assuming many people posting are not Australian and have not been closely following what's been happening with the worlds oldest airline in recent years. Many posters are just coming out with the usual union bashing line, Stuff the unions why should you be paid western wages in a western country when Somchai can do the same job cheaper in bkk. After all it's all about shareholder profits??? This is a company that just reported a profit of 1billion Aus, about 1.2 bil in US!! And the ceo just gave himself a 3mill us pay rise, yesterday...

Rain Man was right, Qantas have never lost a life in the jet age. The last loss happened in PNG in 1951. Anyone who knows anything about aviation knows there are no more dangerous skies in the world even today!! The other losses of life were Catalena flying boats shot out of the air by Japs in WW2. not exactly the fault of the carrier! Whats at stake here is this proud record of the airline which until a decade ago was a "National Carrier". Yes the majority of hostess aren't as hot as the Thai hostesses, who make up about 5o% of the BKK to Aus routes, but I feel a lot safer with an Aussie pilot at the wheel instead of Somchai. I also prefer Bruce checking out the plane than Nuttsack. This is what the fight is about. Yes Qants have had mechanical problems lately, Rolls Royce to blame for the most famous but did anyone die? No, because they were flown by highly trained proud Qantas pilots. During the engine falling apart incedent out of f Sing there were 2 inspector Captains on board as well. Those guys had over 100 warning lights going off at once but they controlled the situation at got everyone to ground safely. Anyone who's lived in SEA for any period of time knows about numerous pilot error disasters, One 2 Fall in Samui and Jakarta when they came in to land with all the warning lights saying abort!!!

The airline is making a profit when many others are not. All Australians , though they may not admit it for ideological reason, feel safer flying Qantas than Thai, Ethihad or who ever. Why, highly trained crews who care about what they do and are not going to cut corners. Like I said earlier all the regulars who quickly bag Thai standards for just about everything want to intrust 90 years of excellence and the Worlds No1 safety record to a bloke who earns 6,000 baht a month to maintain the planes???

I think it was in the 'Big Mango' novel where a Thai diplomat says he never flies with Thai because the pilots get their jobs the same way everyone in Thailand gets their job!!!!!

This goes a lot further than union bashing for it's sake. But hey maybe it's time to take it back anyways!!!!

[OZEMADE]

Travel Warning from Australian Government.

Grounding of Qantas flights

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/TravelBulletins/qantas_flights

[Traxster]

And all of this happened within 24 hours of the CEO giving himself a $2,000 000 raise !!!!

Edited October 29, 2011 by metisdead
Once again, please use default forum font when posting, thanks.

[softgeorge]

And all of this happened within 24 hours of the CEO giving himself a $2,000 000 raise !!!!

apparently qantas reserved a number of hotels world wide a couple of months ago for this particular time in history so me thinks it was planned.

Qantas' decision to ground the entire Qantas fleet is "holding a knife to the nation's throat" and CEO Alan Joyce has "gone mad", the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) says.

AIPA vice president Richard Woodward said the move was "premeditated, unnecessary and grossly irresponsible".

Edited October 29, 2011 by softgeorge

[geriatrickid]

Ultimately, it was approved by shareholders at AGM...the institutional investors out voted everyone else. I think the union may want to publicise who these institutional invvestors are.

I don't understand your point. If we look at the key shareholders we see that they are also publicly owned companies that manage large pension and investment funds;

7.56% -CommonwealthBank Group5.08% -WestpacBanking Corporation

8.11% -BalancedEquity Management Pty Ltd

5.05%- NationalAustralia Bank Limited

6.84% -CapitalGroup Companies Inc

8.94% -FranklinResources, Inc and its affiliates

These fund managers are under pressure from the investors to deliver returns on the investments. Who are these investors? Retirees, pension funds from both the private and public sector, and the "middle class" as well as those with means that invest. The reality is that the general public is behiond these funds and it is the general public that whines and moans when their interest payments are not high enough. The investment funds are acting on behalf of the investors. In plain english, it is not the institutional funds that are the bad guys, but the investors that make the demands for high returns that are responsible.

It is ridiculous that the Qantas situation has come to this, but the responsibility lies with everyone involved. Consumers that demand cheap flights also have a hand in this. Far too simple to point a finger at one group and say they are to blame. What's needed is a smack in the head to everyone involved and a reminder that greed hurts.

Edited October 29, 2011 by geriatrickid

[gamini]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

[RichardSmith99999]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

Not a disease at all. If their service was good then it would have never have happened. Staff are worse than shit and Sydney airport is simply a joke.

[plumeria]

A very expensive game of Chicken.

And not a small amount of Union breaking in play too.

Reminds me a bit of Reagan firing every single Aircraft Controller on strike in USA.

It's costing qantas 15mil AUD per day. The CEO and board members did just grant themselves huge pay increases also.

IF the management gave themselves pay increases but then told the people doing all the work they would get little or none, hooray for the unions.

The last thing our planet needs is the rich getting richer.

Sorry all you rich TVF people. Us working class TVF won't take it any more.

[KunMatt]

The unions should google up Arthur Scargill..........................

You should Google the background to the unions in Australia. Where do you think they all came from?

[David48]

Additional news from the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Service) link.

http://www.abc.net.a...40?WT.svl=news0

<h2>Bangkok

In Bangkok, economy class passengers have been taken into emergency accommodation in the city, despite travel warnings relating to the Thai capital's severe flooding.

About 300 passengers landed in Bangkok from London after being told en route that their onward flight to Sydney had been cancelled.

Most first and business class passengers were found seats on alternative carriers, but economy passengers were bussed to a hotel in the tourist area of Sukhumvit.

I have just checked my frequent flyer profile and can confirm my mobile and email contact details are correct, so I find the lack of notification astounding.

Qantas passenger Clair Hughes

They have been told they may get some answers this morning on how they will get to Australia.

The Australian Government, along with other countries, has issued a warning to reconsider travel to Bangkok due to severe flooding around the city.

Parts of upper Sukhumvit are known flood risk zones, but they do not include the hotel, and there is no current flooding in the area.

The Department of Foreign Affairs has sent extra consular staff to airports overseas to help Australians stranded there.

People stuck overseas are being advised to deal with their travel providers directly where possible.

Qantas says it is organising alternative flights and accommodation for stranded passengers, and refunds for people yet to travel.

With flights grounded indefinitely that promise will come with a hefty price tag.

</h2>

Edited October 29, 2011 by David48

[ralphlsasser]

Thumbs up. Its time for companies to take a stand against unions.

It is unbelievable how unions threaten to strike whenever they want to negotiate higher wages.

Only wished the U.S. auto makers took this route instead of having billions of dollars bailing them out.

The unions ruin every company they are in.

[mca]

Shouldn't this be in world news? Just a thought.

[roamer]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

Well, "the English disease" is going to come back with a vengeance, only this time it won't be the union leaders at the forefront. It will be every pissed off individual in the country who has just watched FTSE CEO's increase their earnings by 50% in the last year whilst the man in the street has been lucky to get a 2% salary increase...against 5% inflation.

But as Dave said "We are all in it together"

Wished my pension funds spread across so many of these companies had reflected their CEO's salary increase.

Thailand, the last refuge of the Thatcher disciples.

Edited October 29, 2011 by roamer

[Scott]

A post which violates Fair Use Policy has been deleted. Please post only the first 3 sentences to the article and then a link to the article. To do otherwise may be copyright infringement.

[softgeorge]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

I think there is one little thing you missed in the story, just a minor detail and that is that it is not the unions that have grounded the fleet or disrupted services causing kaos it was Qantas and it's management. Over the last 7 month the unions have had a total of 6 hours of industrial action.

[outofoz]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

I think there is one little thing you missed in the story, just a minor detail and that is that it is not the unions that have grounded the fleet or disrupted services causing kaos it was Qantas and it's management. Over the last 7 month the unions have had a total of 6 hours of industrial action.

That is a good point and one that is not being widely focused on at all

[robsamui]

"I believe licenced engineers were only trying to secure a 80 cent per hr pay increase"

Of course they can go and work the budget airlines

That's ridiculous.

Perhaps they would have stood more of a chance if they had only wanted 80% a month instead . . .

R

[GeorgeO]

This is what happens when you have a full-employment economy as is the case in AU at the moment...it goes to labour's head. Action such as this by management is needed to discipline labour and ensure that no wage-price spiral of inflation is unleashed in the economy.

As soon as a union believes it has a position of power, its usefulness is over. If limits are not place upon unions by any major company (or government), they will bring the company (country) to its knees. Remember the great Arthur Scargill (w***er) and how families were turned against each other. Does the UK have a mining industry now?

[kartman]

Great move and a great time to purge the airline of their rude, overweight, lazy, old 'trolly dollies'.

Then there is Gillard, sitting on the fence. I bet she falls to the left and takes sides with the unions! Let's get rid of her as well!

I think that is Joyce's/Qantas thoughts they have forced her to invoke arbitration so sidelining her, now the unions and Quantas will have a straight fight with the arbitration board and presumably Qantas thinks they will get abetter deal.

[Colin Yai]

This is what happens when you have a full-employment economy as is the case in AU at the moment...it goes to labour's head. Action such as this by management is needed to discipline labour and ensure that no wage-price spiral of inflation is unleashed in the economy.

As soon as a union believes it has a position of power, its usefulness is over. If limits are not place upon unions by any major company (or government), they will bring the company (country) to its knees. Remember the great Arthur Scargill (w***er) and how families were turned against each other. Does the UK have a mining industry now?

Yeah when Scargill became NUM President he had a big union and a small house, in a very short space of time he had a small union and a big house his favorite cry was no member should become an "industrial gypsy " yet as soon as he got the job he moved NUM headquarters from London to Sheffield, all the employees had to become gypsy's or lose their jobs ,What an hypocrite. Edited October 30, 2011 by Colin Yai

[KeyserSoze01]

This is a company that just reported a profit of 1billion Aus, about 1.2 bil in US!! And the ceo just gave himself a 3mill us pay rise, yesterday...

That was in 2008. Times have been a lot leaner since '08. Here's a link to Qantas' P/L for the last 4 years.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=QAN:AU

[RasiMike]

I'm sitting in OZ at the moment, waiting anxiously to fly back with my family to our very damp home to help our relatives suffering in Thailand. We've been booked and paid on Qantas for a few months now, worrying about floods, watching the inaction of management, and listening to unions threaten the flying public that they intend to hold us to ransom. Now it looks as if their unresolved issues and managements inability to fix the problems, may cost us more money and to force us to change or delay our trip. My family and I fly Qantas 70% of the time, but have flown many times with various carriers. Service and price have always been on par with other similar airlines so I don't understand what the debate is on that score. Whenever we have prepared to travel, Qantas have been competitively priced and offered the more convenient flights on the dates we've wanted. I don't really care what seat I'm in, what the hostess looks like or what food and beer I'm handed, the current situation however, will probably result in us not flying with them again..... I don't want to give them any more of my cash as nobody at Qantas is particularly interested in the needs of the people that pay ALL of their salaries. The management, unions and their members are forgetting that the paying customers are the ones in the end, that dictate to them.

A couple of our friends work for Qantas and are really p_issed off with the situation. They say they are not in agreeance with the unions and reckon the strike action is based on excessive demands. They claim that Qantas employees already receive far better pay and conditions than the staff employed to do identical jobs by the other airlnes operating in Australia.

Given the cost of operating their business, the airline (through neccessity) will undoubtably be looking at moving many of it's services offshore but they will still need many people on the ground in Australia. Happily, the ones left at Qantas will not be the union members who's actions have caused the total grounding of the fleet.....it is likely they are going to be in the dole queue or doing similar jobs for less money, as they deserve to be. Unfortunately the a_shole CEO, and management who've just payed themselves millions more for doing little at all will eventually move on without a thought for the mess they've left in their wake.

[Crushdepth]

The unions have been systematically beating down the Qantas brand for years as a bully tactic. Putting your hand out for a payrise after you've damaged the business is unreasonable. They are asking to be outsourced.