Qantas Grounds Entire Fleet In 'Unbelievable' Step

[waza]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary? Or grounding and airlines and stranding tens of thousands of customers

Edited October 31, 2011 by waza

[TAWP]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary?

Their combined demands and given increases and perks over the last 10 years.

[chooka]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary? Or grounding and airlines and stranding tens of thousands of customers

The outrageous request for a 2.5% pay increase in an attempt to keep up with the CPI and not slide backwards, the dam_n cheek of the workers this money is needed for the million dollar pay increases for the CEO and management. Alan Joyce is really struggling to survive on 5 mil a year. not to mention 100's of 1'000's of dollars in other perks like shares in the company.

[waza]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch their homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary?

Their combined demands and given increases and perks over the last 10 years.

Quanta's has made a profit for the last 20 years,(half a billion last year) despite the "increases and perks of the last 10 years" and the previous director earning 12 million a year. The unions are asking for a guarantee on job security and pay equity. Seems your comments are ill informed.

Edited October 31, 2011 by waza

[ozzydom]

There was no winner or loser from the decision,probably it was a slight advantage to the workers.

Qantas management has for a while during the negotiations flatly refused to negotiate making them a waste of time. Now both parties have been ordered to negotiate .

Qantas management can legally still refuse to negotiate the unions claims which will leave it to the commission to make a decision on the matter , it can be anybody,s guess what that outcome will be.

Qantas has clearly stated that their ultimate ambition is to relocate to S/E Asia and take advantage of lower costs,partly through hiring cheaper pilots and ground staff.

If posters care to Google QANTAS SALE ACT 1992 they will see that moving Qantas from Australia would take an act of Parliament to repeal or alter that act.

In fact there is currently an enquiry under way in the Senate to shore up the Act to make moving Qantas even harder.

The Qantas Board of management is made up of senior members from the main shareholder groups such as banks ,investment funds etc.there are no board members from private shareholder groups or worker representatives.

Joyce and his cahoot Leigh Clifford are both known hatchet men who were hired by the current board to suit their own ends.

They even use the same Law firm that Corrigan used in trying to bust the Waterside unions.

[chooka]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary?

Their combined demands and given increases and perks over the last 10 years.

Qantas management have far more perks than the workers, the CEO alone earns 500 X more than the average worker. The guy should have refused his 71% pay increase out of respect for the workers whom he is refusing a 2 1/2 % pay increase. He is skimming the cream off the company and spitting on the workers.

[TAWP]

If a an employee came and demanded 2.5% salary increase, when not deserving it, and threatening to go on strike if not been given it, he would be denied the raise and written warnings of every action against the company interest until fired after the third write-up. (To put balance on it, we have also raised salaries in size of 15-20% for several people this year.)

This blanket raise-demands and threats of strike - with violence brought against non-Union co-workers or temp-hired 'scabs' - are one of the primary reasons I will at all points work against Unions.

[chooka]

What a lot of people don't realise also is that Unions are required to give 72 hours notice of any strike action by law so as not to cause to much disruption to the public. So had the unions in this case decided to strike and ground the aircraft the flying public would have been forewarned and had the oppertunity to make other plans. Qantas management however showed total disregard to the public and have caused far more damage than the unions would have done.

[waza]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary?

Their combined demands and given increases and perks over the last 10 years.

Qantas management have far more perks than the workers, the CEO alone earns 500 X more than the average worker. The guy should have refused his 71% pay increase out of respect for the workers whom he is refusing a 2 1/2 % pay increase. He is skimming the cream off the company and spitting on the workers.

Sweet m8, Qantas might have a job for a good union basher like you.

Edited October 31, 2011 by waza

[chooka]

If a an employee came and demanded 2.5% salary increase, when not deserving it, and threatening to go on strike if not been given it, he would be denied the raise and written warnings of every action against the company interest until fired after the third write-up. (To put balance on it, we have also raised salaries in size of 15-20% for several people this year.)

This blanket raise-demands and threats of strike - with violence brought against non-Union co-workers or temp-hired 'scabs' - are one of the primary reasons I will at all points work against Unions.

There were no such threats in this case and union members and non union members work side by side in Australian industry. It is illegal to force someone to join a union. The days of the BLF are well and truely gone.

[TAWP]

There was no threat of a strike? Really?

[waza]

J. P. Morgan, HSBC, National Nominees and Citicorp are also the top four shareholders of Quantas and that just the top four, a group of major global financial conglomerates, hold over 70 percent of all shares.

[KunMatt]

There was no threat of a strike? Really?

Evident by his previous posts in this thread, Chooka has no idea what he is talking about and instead of using personal experience or researched facts he is just trying to argue this issue with assumptions.

[softgeorge]

There was no threat of a strike? Really?

Evident by his previous posts in this thread, Chooka has no idea what he is talking about and instead of using personal experience or researched facts he is just trying to argue this issue with assumptions.

What he was refering to was the BLF and he was quite correct. Unions can't just strike they must give 3 days written notice also so that is hardly a threat.

[saintofsilence]

There was no threat of a strike? Really?

Evident by his previous posts in this thread, Chooka has no idea what he is talking about and instead of using personal experience or researched facts he is just trying to argue this issue with assumptions.

What he was refering to was the BLF and he was quite correct. Unions can't just strike they must give 3 days written notice also so that is hardly a threat.

Earlier, Mr Joyce said the drawn-out industrial campaign by three unions was serious and impacting the airline's bottom line.

He said rolling strikes had cost the company $68 million.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-says-sorry-for-strke-disruption-warns-unions-are-endangering-jobs/story-e6frg95x-1226179245992

[softgeorge]

There was no threat of a strike? Really?

Evident by his previous posts in this thread, Chooka has no idea what he is talking about and instead of using personal experience or researched facts he is just trying to argue this issue with assumptions.

What he was refering to was the BLF and he was quite correct. Unions can't just strike they must give 3 days written notice also so that is hardly a threat.

Earlier, Mr Joyce said the drawn-out industrial campaign by three unions was serious and impacting the airline's bottom line.

He said rolling strikes had cost the company $68 million.

http://www.theaustra...x-1226179245992

Are you talking about strikes or stop work meetings? entirely different things. The Australian Government is furious with Mr Joyce and Qantas for his actions. He didn't inform the government and he didn't inform the ASX of his actions until 3 hours prior. Gave the government no time to act litterally bypassing proceedures and going it alone.

[saintofsilence]

Rolling Strikes

The court ruling is a major victory in the airline's battle with unions representing pilots, aircraft mechanics, baggage handlers and caterers, whose rolling strikes have forced the cancellation of 600 flights in recent months, disrupted travel for 70,000 passengers and cost Qantas 70 million Australian dollars ($75 million).

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QMVVUO0.htm

[softgeorge]

There was no threat of a strike? Really?

Evident by his previous posts in this thread, Chooka has no idea what he is talking about and instead of using personal experience or researched facts he is just trying to argue this issue with assumptions.

What he was refering to was the BLF and he was quite correct. Unions can't just strike they must give 3 days written notice also so that is hardly a threat.

Earlier, Mr Joyce said the drawn-out industrial campaign by three unions was serious and impacting the airline's bottom line.

He said rolling strikes had cost the company $68 million.

http://www.theaustra...x-1226179245992

What is involved in taking protected industrial action?

In the case of employees, a protected action ballot to authorise the industrial action is required before industrial action can be taken.

Before the industrial action begins, written notice must be given to the other side of the negotiations.

Unless the industrial action is in response to industrial action taken by the other side, at least three days' notice must be given. The written notice must state the nature of the intended action and the day it will begin.

Bargaining representatives of employees wishing to take industrial action to support their claims, must first seek an order from Fair Work Australia for a protected action ballot authorising the industrial action.

Edited October 31, 2011 by softgeorge

[saintofsilence]

Workers gave no sign of relenting, with engineering union chief Steve Purvinas warning that protests could stretch until mid-2012 while ground staff leader Tony Sheldon threatened crippling 48-hour strikes.

http://business.asiaone.com/Business/News/Office/Story/A1Story20111028-307454.html

[Spoonman]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary? Or grounding and airlines and stranding tens of thousands of customers

The outrageous request for a 2.5% pay increase in an attempt to keep up with the CPI and not slide backwards, the dam_n cheek of the workers

You should do some research before opening your mouth, Qantas offered 3% but was rejected, The TWU wanted 5%.

Qantas Offer

TWU request

Edited October 31, 2011 by Spoonman

[TAWP]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary? Or grounding and airlines and stranding tens of thousands of customers

The outrageous request for a 2.5% pay increase in an attempt to keep up with the CPI and not slide backwards, the dam_n cheek of the workers

You should do some research before opening your mouth, Qantas offered 3% but was rejected, The TWU wanted 5%.

Qantas Offer

TWU request

Thanks for injecting some facts to this thread.

[softgeorge]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.

Which claims were outrageous?? Moving an Australian icon overseas and all their jobs, or a 70% increase in Joyce's salary? Or grounding and airlines and stranding tens of thousands of customers

The outrageous request for a 2.5% pay increase in an attempt to keep up with the CPI and not slide backwards, the dam_n cheek of the workers

You should do some research before opening your mouth, Qantas offered 3% but was rejected, The TWU wanted 5%.

Qantas Offer

TWU request

Appology Accepted

Qantas long-haul pilots are set to take industrial action for the first time in two decades. As part of the industrial action, pilots with the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) are asking for a 2.5 percent annual increase in wages over three years.

Reported by ninemsn Finance staff

[theblether]

What do the Qantas pilots intend to do about the competition from Airasia? I have no inside knowledge however I will lay you short odds that within 5 years Airasia will be shadowing every long haul route currently operated by Qantas. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dedicated Airasia Oz in place by then too, and the competition in the domestic market will destroy Qantas as a company.

Maybe the pilots and the unions should allow the managers to manage......it may be the salvation of the company.

[waza]

What do the Qantas pilots intend to do about the competition from Airasia? I have no inside knowledge however I will lay you short odds that within 5 years Airasia will be shadowing every long haul route currently operated by Qantas. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dedicated Airasia Oz in place by then too, and the competition in the domestic market will destroy Qantas as a company.

Maybe the pilots and the unions should allow the managers to manage......it may be the salvation of the company.

If Quantas leaves Australia it will become just another low cost, low service airline, loose its good name, loose its ties with Australia and eventually breakup. But if it stays in Aus, it will remain an icon and if it goes broke the Government will nationalise it. Just my thoughts

Edited October 31, 2011 by waza

[electau]

Qantas has less than 20% of the international airline market in Australia and has to compete with the likes of Singapore, Thai and Malaysian Airlines which are goverment owned /subsidised.

Qantas has 65% of the domestic market and this is the part that makes a profit, with its low cost airline Jetstar.

The one feature of Qantas is its safety record, it has not lost one aircraft (except in WW2)

It has a very high standard operations and maintainance and is a world leader in crew training.

Qantas is now a publicly owned company and the majority shareholders are institutional ones not individual share holders.

It might well be pointed out that the CEO is Irish not Australian.

The ongoing dispute is currently before the Fair Work Tribunal.

How ever Qantas has to restructure its work force to compete internationally.

It does not have to go offshore to do this.

The Australian government could buy the international arm of the Airline as it is an essential service as far as Australia is concerned.

[kartman]

Still can't get their engines to run properly.

[Spoonman]

[softgeorge]

The government is in the process of drafting legislation to stop Qantas from moving offshore which is good news and a win for the unions. About time the government stood up for it's citizens and protected jobs.

[ginjag]

Still can't get their engines to run properly.

Today, BBC news aid a qantas A380 Sing-London had to land in Dubai as 1 engine had to be shut down. O.K. it's a R/R. trent engine BUT my question is I have read of no other airline with this powerful economical engine, has had problems ?? sing=emirates etc. what is the matter with the Aussie planes ?? or is it the way they are flown that gives the engine the problem. This is a little off topic but is not helping with these other problems.

R.R. maintain the motors for Q.

[TAWP]

The government is in the process of drafting legislation to stop Qantas from moving offshore which is good news and a win for the unions. About time the government stood up for it's citizens and protected jobs.

Protectionism is a typical corporatist alt. socialist step (depending on the focus is on the company or the jobs) and never in the interest of the customers or the general public.