Its Scary Bringing Up A Family In Thailand

[PattayaParent]

80K, or more, might be the round-about figure as such applies long-term residency and related visas

But I believe the deeper reference [outside of the non-imm O/B visa requirements and bureaucracy] was what one's reasonable comfort level would be. We could stretch 80K for six months. But then we live differently....the great need for want has passed us. Quite a stable bank account [for the visa requirements]. We've long become self-sufficient. Two houses on 2-and-a-half rai, businesses, 37 rai which produces market rice, fruit, vegetables, and livestock.

80K + sounds like city slicker living with all the [unnecessary] trimmings.

The discussions would change if we included, as a matter of life here, the increasingly OTT expenses one needs to secure for the appropriate resident visas.

I wasn't referring to 80k being a reasonable amount to live on (I spend MUCH more than that) but to 80k being the earning requirement for PR.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Wow. Let me make an effort to go back on topic in a constructive way. Thanks to farang000999 for not handing over the forum to people who enjoy pointless personal put-downs.

The biggest expense imo is international schooling, 400-500k in Bangkok. I have no idea what the quality of schooling is in schools outside Bangkok. Most farang teachers seem to have very little positive to say about their schools and jobs and likewise, farang expats don't seem to think too much of farang teachers. Maybe home schooling is the answer?

I'd say there are roughly three tiers of schooling in Thailand:

1. Regular Thai local schools, which cost very little.

2. Established private schools, which often have an English program. Most students are Thai, but also a good number of foreign and mixed kids.

3. Top International Schools; these are teh 400-500K ones you speak of. Full international program, most kids of relatively wealthy expats, diplomats, Top NGOs, etc. And some kids of Thai 1%-ers.

The latter two tend to be cheaper outside of Bangkok, but the top international schools, of which there are a select few outside of Bangkok, are still very expensive and really aimed at expats who have 'schooling for the kids' included in their package. (Or are wealthy).

That leaves the middle one for people like me. They still easily run 100K a year outside of Bangkok, but there are some very good schools among these. My daughter is in the English program for one in Chiang Mai, which means that the curriculum is based on the Thai curriculum when it comes to learning math, science and so on, but that all classes are done in English with the exception of course of Thai language (for which they have a Thai teacher) and 'Thai culture, history & general government-sanctioned indoctrination'. ( )

We were lucky with her teacher too I think, she worked as a teacher in the USA and recently (just over a year ago) moved to Thailand with her family; her own kids are at the same school. So most of the 'English Teacher stereotypes' (as far as those exist anyway) don't apply.

In cities like Chiang Mai there are several of these schools to choose from.

I think another key difference between tier 2 and 3 (as defined by me above) is that kids who graduate from (2) are well prepared to continue in Thai universities. Kids of graduate from (3) are well prepared to continue in Western (English language) universities. It's not like a Thai university (which could be top ones like Chula and CMU) is the ceiling; assuming they speak great English I think a scenario where they do a Bachelor at a Thai university, then something else at an International university is also possible. For me though it's crucial that the option of going to a regular Thai university is there. For other people of course, especially those who are based in Thailand temporarily, it is equally crucial that they can get into an international university.

EDIT: I suppose home schooling is another option, but that's a full time job for someone qualified.. and kids will still miss out on a lot of regular school stuff. I do know people who do home schooling, especially missionaries and related Christian NGOs. That way they get to provide schooling in their particular flavor of Christianity.

Edited January 18, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Hooters]

A year ago?

"2011-09-30 08:53:07"

Try about 3 months ago.

I have no idea what your problem is buddy. Perhaps you are jealous that I make a living entirely online? That I didn't become an english teacher like some people?

I do rather okay now thanks to 2 years of hard effort. It was not easy. Now I can travel anywhere I like and I make money with just an internet connection.

And I spend very little on rent. Less than 10% of my spending.

Do your self a favor. Get another nic but this time keep a journal

[samran]

Whatever reasonable is considered to be. I would imaigine that full-time year-round Western residents [with or without the family, property, business/work] living here could be classified as "comfortable".....that can vary, as everyone has their own comfort zones and way of life.

Apparently 50kbht a month is considered reasonable if you are married and want citizenship.

If you don't pay tax on that amount each month, they don't want your application.

40K from memory. Either way, hardly earth shattering.

80k actually

I think if you are going for citizenship, it is 80K if doing it under your own steam or 40K if married (for a foreign male married to a Thai wife), tax returns on all of it.

For the latter, you can also bypass the PR route these days, though there are still other criteria that have to be met. Happy to be corrected.

Either way, I wasn't meaning to turn this into a 'how much you need to live in Thailand thread. More that certaintly of stay is alot more achieveable that many think. The process can be slow, to be sure, but it isn't the impossible dream many think.

[Johnniey]

Just because your wife is beautiful and adores you doesn't mean that you HAVE to stay with her. Too many people, that have fallen out of love, stick around and become miserable and consequently become ill, mentally and physically. Decide if YOU want to stay with her and your son and honour yourself.

[PattayaParent]

The latter two tend to be cheaper outside of Bangkok, but the top international schools, of which there are a select few outside of Bangkok, are still very expensive and really aimed at expats who have 'schooling for the kids' included in their package. (Or are wealthy).

Or they just don't have a choice because there is no Thai partner in the marriage so there is no basics in the language or culture.

[F1fanatic]

Samran - So how many foreigners gain 'citizenship' status here per year?

[samran]

Probably as many as who apply. Not many do, but more are eligible than they think. Which was my main point.

[F1fanatic]

Probably as many as who apply. Not many do, but more are eligible than they think. Which was my main point.

Good to know. But I'd still be interested to learn how many gain citizenship per year.

[samran]

Off the top of my head, about 40 or 50 last year. Problem is that there is a blockage at the ministerial level as he/she has to sign off on each application. If all goes well intelligence is about 3 years from application to Thai passport. So the process is glacial and only for those who are patient.

[F1fanatic]

Off the top of my head, about 40 or 50 last year. Problem is that there is a blockage at the ministerial level as he/she has to sign off on each application. If all goes well intelligence is about 3 years from application to Thai passport. So the process is glacial and only for those who are patient.

Gosh, that's impressive. 40-50 (off the top of your head last year) of all the thousands (?) of foreigners who would LOVE citizenship.

[holidaze]

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

So what is it that you do? I'd love to log on and make cash online, but the only way I know how to make cash online is eBay.

[samran]

Ah, the cynicism kicks in.

You can look at it two ways: where only 40 are approved and the punters take this as rock solid evidence of 'they don't want us here'.

But unfortunately 'love' doesn't fill in the application form down at special branch, where I'm guaranteeing most of the moaners have never set foot, but yet somehow are experts on the matter.

So there is the other way of looking it. Most Westerners don't at the end of the day want Thai citizenship. Sure, there is the element who are on retirement visa's as well as the visa runners and hence don't qualify (probably over represented here on TV). But then again, most western countries don't dish out citizenship to retiree's or perpetual tourists, so what is good for the goose is logically good for the gander.

Of the rest there are the short term workers who are here for a few years, finish their contract, or those who work here for a few years and have had a gut full and then move on. Very few countries, rich or poor are going to give you a passport unless you've spend at least half a decade there. So they won't qualify either.

So that leaves the long term workers who look to make Thailand their home, and probably have been here for 5 or 10 years at minimum. Of these, some will be content with PR. Others will think that the retirement visa suits them.

What is left out of your 'thousands' who don't fall for the fearmongering and bar stool 'experts' and bother to research the rules, so it isn't surprising that there are only a few who bother to apply after all that. And even then the Thai passport doesn't offer much. You can't go very far on one travel wise, and unless you are desperate to own land yourself or desperate to work in one of the restrictedrestricted professions (basket weaving anyone?).

It isn't a surprise that most of the people who do want Thai citizenship are 'trading up' so to speak (indians and chinese). So at the end of the day, you have a very small group of self selected foreigners who even bother.

It isn't as if Special Branch is being flooded with applications. Those who have been down there know the nationality office is a sleep nook of an afterthought at police HQ.

But still, the moaners will cry 'but they don't want us. To which I reiterate - if they really didn't want you, they wouldn't let you take the piss out of the visa laws, let you overstay years, pay a $600 fine at the airport and let you back in on the next flight.

[ludditeman]

It isn't as if Special Branch is being flooded with applications. Those who have been down there know the nationality office is a sleep nook of an afterthought at police HQ.

They refuse most peoples application form.

How do you suggest we apply, when they won't accept the form?

[Hooters]

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

So what is it that you do? I'd love to log on and make cash online, but the only way I know how to make cash online is eBay.

Maybe he has a web cam and 'does things with stuff" sort of like a male ping pong show and people pay him to log and watch ?

[PattayaParent]

Off the top of my head, about 40 or 50 last year. Problem is that there is a blockage at the ministerial level as he/she has to sign off on each application. If all goes well intelligence is about 3 years from application to Thai passport. So the process is glacial and only for those who are patient.

Don't you mean to PR?

I thought getting citizenship was a lot longer than that and only after PR has been granted?

Edit: you can apply for PR after 3 years qualification period and it can take 2+ years to process and then after a further 5 years you can apply for Thai citizenship, no idea how long that process takes.

Edited January 18, 2012 by PattayaParent

[samran]

And Ludditeman, you know this how? I'm guessing you've never been there. And do point out to me what in the rules make it onerous for a working person married to a Thai to qualify.

Best go back to insulting newlyweds methinks.

[Johnniey]

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

So what is it that you do? I'd love to log on and make cash online, but the only way I know how to make cash online is eBay.

Sine the USA banned online poker, there have been hundreds of professional poker players come into the country. A few are friends of mine who earn very very well. Maybe he does this?

[Johnniey]

It isn't as if Special Branch is being flooded with applications. Those who have been down there know the nationality office is a sleep nook of an afterthought at police HQ.

They refuse most peoples application form.

How do you suggest we apply, when they won't accept the form?

I have 3 good friends who have got citizenship fairly recently. It's not hard. It very easy if you have money and speak the language. It's easy if you have lots of money and can't speak the language.

Most people are too lazy to try, especially when they find out there is a Thai exam.

[PattayaParent]

It isn't as if Special Branch is being flooded with applications. Those who have been down there know the nationality office is a sleep nook of an afterthought at police HQ.

They refuse most peoples application form.

How do you suggest we apply, when they won't accept the form?

There is a quota of 100 applications per nationality, I doubt they receive that many to have problems exceeding the quota.

[guzzi850m2]

Many strange and negative answers to OP post.

I am very lucky, I work 2 month on/off in the off-shore industry world wide on a ship. I have been a sea man all my life and would never dream of finding something as well paid in Thailand.

Yes its hard to say bye-bye to the family for 2 month but I need the money, end of story. No my wife is not a big spender, she don't get monthly "salary" and we only has one car ( 5 year old middle class) in the house hold and I am not paying any money to the rest of her family.

I am "only" 49 years so app. 30% of my income goes direct to pensions fonds overseas.

I always been treated fairly here, but I try to be polite to people and don't dress in t-shirt and flip flops when going out (unless going to the beach).

When I am turning 60 I have the option of work 2 month followed by 4 month holiday if I want so, yes I know I am lucky and got to live in tropical surroundings which I prefer any day.

[Johnniey]

It isn't as if Special Branch is being flooded with applications. Those who have been down there know the nationality office is a sleep nook of an afterthought at police HQ.

They refuse most peoples application form.

How do you suggest we apply, when they won't accept the form?

There is a quota of 100 applications per nationality, I doubt they receive that many to have problems exceeding the quota.

I thought that quota is for Permanent residency, not Citizenship

[samran]

It isn't as if Special Branch is being flooded with applications. Those who have been down there know the nationality office is a sleep nook of an afterthought at police HQ.

They refuse most peoples application form.

How do you suggest we apply, when they won't accept the form?

There is a quota of 100 applications per nationality, I doubt they receive that many to have problems exceeding the quota.

You are talking about PR. No quota for citizenship.

As for your other post, if you are married to a Thai, as a make, you can skip the PR stage since 2008 as has been the case for foreign women married to Thai men.

Below is Arkady's post on the issue.

Edited January 18, 2012 by samran

[ludditeman]

It isn't as if Special Branch is being flooded with applications. Those who have been down there know the nationality office is a sleep nook of an afterthought at police HQ.

They refuse most peoples application form.

How do you suggest we apply, when they won't accept the form?

There is a quota of 100 applications per nationality, I doubt they receive that many to have problems exceeding the quota.

There is no quota for citizenship applications. If you are married to a Thai, you can apply right away, no need for PR or Thai language skills either. Just a job paying income tax on more than 40k a month.

Edited January 18, 2012 by ludditeman

[samran]

Which according to you, they'll reject.

[ludditeman]

Which according to you, they'll reject.

It's funny how you know all these people that obtained PR and citizenship and none of us do?

Guess you are just too hi-so for the rest of us.

Or another Thai apologist.

Anyway a frined and I are thinking of setting up a Thai company and churning high wages for each of us in order to get the maximum points for employment income, it will cost us a bit in tax, but we will also be able to pull health care off the back of it.

60k each a month = 25 points

degree = 8 points

50-60 = 8 points

Need another 9 points, I can speak read, write and sing NA, but badly. (some out of 15)

Wonder how I can score points for personality? (some out of 5)

Edited January 18, 2012 by ludditeman

[MJo]

stop wining what do you want someone else to support you. when I was young I worked 16 hours a day had to work away from my family for long periods and although I always tried to see then once a month I did it for financial security and to provide for my first 3 children and their future and mine. IT was not easy but its a choice I made. I could have got a steady job close to home and not been able to give my family what I wanted to give them but it was my choice as it is ops. He should be thankful he has a decent job and can provide well for his family. The Op decided to have a family no one forced him and many would give their eye teeth for what he has. No one forced me at a late age to have a new family and 2 more kids and I definitely would not have done it if I could not support it and also had enough at a late age to make sure they could have a decent income if I died. What sympathy does he expect we all have a free will and if we want can usually control our lives. All make choices. When I was younger work colleagues would moan that I was paid much more and when I said well you can do same the answer always was but we have kids and so cant to which I said so have I. My advice stands get on with it save or if you cant get a decent job here move to where you can with your family. Dont give me BS but its all I can do thats just an excuse for not doing. I had many many different jobs in my life building contractor, teacher, scientist, shop keeper, jewellery dealer and more. Sometimes I was aways for long periods, sometimes when I was younger we were almost totally broke. I know a lot of people here in Op's position mostly offshore workers who also moan like mad but refuse to give up their huge salaries to be able to be with their families. Well thats their choice ands most of then are spending all their huge salaries on Toys and high living instead of saving for day which might come or saving so they can retire earlier to be with their families.

Who's whining? You claim to have made loads of money and then go ranting about expat offshore guys salaries....?

All i'm saying i have chosen to make money to provide for my family vs. being poor with them in Thailand. Hopefully when i reach mid fifties or early sixties i'm able to retire comfortably and afford to put my kids to decent school and set them up so that they can start their lives with the support they deserve.

My choice but not always easy as the OP states.

[samran]

Which according to you, they'll reject.

It's funny how you know all these people that obtained PR and citizenship and none of us do?

Guess you are just too hi-so for the rest of us.

Or another Thai apologist.

I have a charming personality and I guess I just hang out with the cool crowd as they have taken a liking to my jokes. I'm not hi-So and my friend I'm pretty sure you wouldn't know one if you saw one.

As for Thai apologist, well I have a Thai passport and I am now apologising for making you look like a dill on this thread. Does that count?

Wonder how I can score points for personality? (some out of 5)

I suspect they'll need negative points scale in your case.

[ludditeman]

Wonder how I can score points for personality? (some out of 5)

I suspect they'll need negative points scale in your case.

I didn't see where they stated you needed 'good personality'

[Forethat]

if they really didn't want you, they wouldn't let you take the piss out of the visa laws, let you overstay years, pay a $600 fine at the airport and let you back in on the next flight.

Ah, the ignorance kicks in...

The reason they let you do all this is due to the revenue it generates.