UK pensions

[Guest jonzboy]

wooohooo!!!

Steve Webb has lost his seat as MP

[dabhand]

wooohooo!!!

Steve Webb has lost his seat as MP

Great night made even better by this guy losing his seat.

Hopefully to disappear into oblivion where he rightfully belongs..

[Guest jonzboy]

It's also bye-bye Nigel, 555

[evadgib]

Where does this (Tory Govt) leave the consortium?

[nontabury]

It's also bye-bye Nigel, 555

Hopefully not for long, UKIP received nearly 4million votes yet only one MP,

They also received nearly 15% of the vote in England and again only one MP. This was in-spite of a propaganda campaign against them by the BBC and some of the national newspapers.

The big loser, was Britain.Thankfully I live in Thailand.

[Liquorice]

Where does this (Tory Govt) leave the consortium?

No consortium anymore. The Tories got the required 326 seats for overall majority.

Shares already gone up and the £ is up to 51.370 baht.

Good time to do a transfer.

[sandyf]

It's also bye-bye Nigel, 555

For the time being, he said he may stand for reelection in Sept.

[loppylugs1]

UKIP were responsible for many Tory election pledges,namely EU in-out referendum,asylum seekers,probably now all booted out thankfully, even further reducing benefit cap Conservatives were running scared 6 months ago of UKIP,now human rights act being binned too because of them

Once the voting map of the UK is re-drawn in this parliament will see Labour finished as a party,maybe UKIP will spring forth again. Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

Now just get rid of Scotland and that Barnett formula.,what a wonderful world

[Godders]

UKIP were responsible for many Tory election pledges,namely EU in-out referendum,asylum seekers,probably now all booted out thankfully, even further reducing benefit cap Conservatives were running scared 6 months ago of UKIP,now human rights act being binned too because of them

Once the voting map of the UK is re-drawn in this parliament will see Labour finished as a party,maybe UKIP will spring forth again. Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

Now just get rid of Scotland and that Barnett formula.,what a wonderful world

Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

Presumably, they are hoping to fund the increase via the Osborne plan to make UK pensioners living in overseas countries like Thailand ineligible for the standard tax allowance (currently 10,600 pounds p.a. and predicted to rise to 12,000 pounds), effectively reducing their pensions income by 20 per cent.

It is called robbing Peter to pay Paul, which in effect has been the Conservative policy from day one of their tenure - which explains why the rich have got richer during the years of austerity and the poor have got poorer.

And to think a majority of mugs voted them in yet again! Don't people ever learn?

[Liquorice]

Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

That won't make a scrap of difference to most expats in Thailand.

Meanwhile back in the UK, the Tories now have a free hand to do as they wish.

1. 12bn of planned cuts to the welfare system, so the poor, disabled, elderly and disadvantaged will be hit the hardest.

2. Unemployment should fall....as more are forced into unfair and inadequate contracts...food banks will continue to rise.

3. Creeping privatisation of our Education and Health system. But don't worry the NHS will remain free...as the death tolls rise.

4. Cuts will fall heavily on local Councils and Public Services, like the Police, Fire Service and Prisons who are already stretched.

5. A referendum on Europe and scrapping the Human Rights Act, although we'll keep the good bits like TTIP, which will hand over swathes of our national sovereignty to multi-national corporations. But that’s okay because foreigners are alright as long as they’re big businesses; it’s only the poor ones we don’t like.

In 5 years I think Labour and UKIP will be back with a bang!

[evadgib]

I'm preparing a FoI request to find out how many eligable voters living outside the British Isles added to the register as a result of last years trawl wasted their time due to non arrival of ballot papers. I'll also seek details re cost.

Mine were nowhere to be seen.

Edited May 9, 2015 by evadgib

[green job]

Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

That won't make a scrap of difference to most expats in Thailand.

Meanwhile back in the UK, the Tories now have a free hand to do as they wish.

1. 12bn of planned cuts to the welfare system, so the poor, disabled, elderly and disadvantaged will be hit the hardest.

2. Unemployment should fall....as more are forced into unfair and inadequate contracts...food banks will continue to rise.

3. Creeping privatisation of our Education and Health system. But don't worry the NHS will remain free...as the death tolls rise.

4. Cuts will fall heavily on local Councils and Public Services, like the Police, Fire Service and Prisons who are already stretched.

5. A referendum on Europe and scrapping the Human Rights Act, although we'll keep the good bits like TTIP, which will hand over swathes of our national sovereignty to multi-national corporations. But that’s okay because foreigners are alright as long as they’re big businesses; it’s only the poor ones we don’t like.

In 5 years I think Labour and UKIP will be back with a bang!

Rubbish

[theoldgit]

Mine were nowhere to be seen.

Likewise.

However I suspect that a FOI request would fail as I understand it's each Constituency that has responsibility for their own postal votes,

I understand that the Electoral Commission have to file a report following an election and they have indicated that they may mention the postal vote fiasco.

[Eff1n2ret]

Presumably, they are hoping to fund the increase via the Osborne plan to make UK pensioners living in overseas countries like Thailand ineligible for the standard tax allowance (currently 10,600 pounds p.a. and predicted to rise to 12,000 pounds), effectively reducing their pensions income by 20 per cent.

I suppose it's understandable that some people feel sore about the election result, but that doesn't justify propagating outright lies which might alarm some of the more vulnerable. The last government's consultation document about restricting personal allowances specifically stated that it did not intend to reduce the allowance of expat pensioners. I replied to the consultation and received the same answer, as did Sir Roger Gale MP who is very active in representing the interests of UK expats in Parliament.

Try reading the consultation, particularly Para 6.6

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance

[evadgib]

Mine were nowhere to be seen.

Likewise.

However I suspect that a FOI request would fail as I understand it's each Constituency that has responsibility for their own postal votes,

I understand that the Electoral Commission have to file a report following an election and they have indicated that they may mention the postal vote fiasco.

Having embraced available technology to enable us to sign up I am frankly amazed that they resorted to a 'message in a bottle' when it came to the actual vote.

[transam]

Mine were nowhere to be seen.

Likewise.

However I suspect that a FOI request would fail as I understand it's each Constituency that has responsibility for their own postal votes,

I understand that the Electoral Commission have to file a report following an election and they have indicated that they may mention the postal vote fiasco.

Having embraced available technology to enable us to sign up I am frankly amazed that they resorted to a 'message in a bottle' when it came to the actual vote.

https://youtu.be/MbXWrmQW-OE

[i claudius]

UKIP were responsible for many Tory election pledges,namely EU in-out referendum,asylum seekers,probably now all booted out thankfully, even further reducing benefit cap Conservatives were running scared 6 months ago of UKIP,now human rights act being binned too because of them

Once the voting map of the UK is re-drawn in this parliament will see Labour finished as a party,maybe UKIP will spring forth again. Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

Now just get rid of Scotland and that Barnett formula.,what a wonderful world

Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

Presumably, they are hoping to fund the increase via the Osborne plan to make UK pensioners living in overseas countries like Thailand ineligible for the standard tax allowance (currently 10,600 pounds p.a. and predicted to rise to 12,000 pounds), effectively reducing their pensions income by 20 per cent.

It is called robbing Peter to pay Paul, which in effect has been the Conservative policy from day one of their tenure - which explains why the rich have got richer during the years of austerity and the poor have got poorer.

And to think a majority of mugs voted them in yet again! Don't people ever learn?

What makes you think this,it's never been mentioned it's just a thought that you had,and put down here,facts are all that matter

[Godders]

Presumably, they are hoping to fund the increase via the Osborne plan to make UK pensioners living in overseas countries like Thailand ineligible for the standard tax allowance (currently 10,600 pounds p.a. and predicted to rise to 12,000 pounds), effectively reducing their pensions income by 20 per cent.

I suppose it's understandable that some people feel sore about the election result, but that doesn't justify propagating outright lies which might alarm some of the more vulnerable. The last government's consultation document about restricting personal allowances specifically stated that it did not intend to reduce the allowance of expat pensioners. I replied to the consultation and received the same answer, as did Sir Roger Gale MP who is very active in representing the interests of UK expats in Parliament.

Try reading the consultation, particularly Para 6.6

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance

I read the consultation document when it first came out and made representations to which I never received a reply. Believe me, nobody could feel more "vulnerable" and "alarmed" than I am at what I believe is being proposed. Let us look at some of the evidence you have presented.

For example, in section 6.6: "many non-resident UK national pensioners do not have any other income (i.e. employment or property) which is taxable in the UK and would not be affected by losing their Personal Allowance".

How could people like myself not be affected? Since leaving the UK to retire to Thailand I have only paid UK tax on that portion of my UK pensions income which exceeds the Personal Allowance. As I understand it, under the Chancellor's proposals, I would be taxed on the lot - and at a stroke lose a fifth of my entire pensions income.

I would also draw your attention to the following paragraph, a little further on in the same section:

"The government does not intend to raise taxes on vulnerable groups or in situations where the UK is the principal taxing authority and an individual has no recourse to relief as a result of the UK having sole taxing rights under a tax treaty. If the government were to restrict non-residents’ entitlement to the Personal Allowance, it would intend this to apply to types of income which are taxable both in the UK and overseas (such as that from immovable property) but to retain the Personal Allowance on income that is taxable exclusively in the UK.

The term "vulnerable groups", which I have underlined, is a phrase commonly used by politicians to raise hopes - but these are dashed, so far as UK expat pensioners living in Thailand are concerned, by the contents of the underlined sentence which follows. This clearly states the intention to deprive non-residents with income taxable in their respective countries of domicile (UK in my case) and residence (Thailand) of the Personal Allowance.

A number of double taxation treaties between the UK and Thailand exist, but not prevent pensions arising in the UK being taxable in BOTH countries. The UK automatically takes its pound of flesh at source and Thai tax law says that pension money remitted here (whether net or gross is irrelevant) is income and therefore taxable.

I would be delighted to be proved wrong, of course. Over to you.

[i claudius]

This is s consultation document there are many,few come to fruition

[Liquorice]

Under Thai Tax Laws only income received in Thailand from employment Overseas is taxable.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

Any income you make here should be taxed (above the thresholds) including interest payments from investments, as it is treated as receiving an income from Thailand.

If the interest is below the thresholds for tax allowances then this can be reclaimed.

I am automatically taxed on the interest I receive from my Fixed Bank Account, but because it is below the tax allowance, each year I can reclaim the full amount.

[JB300]

Under Thai Tax Laws only income received in Thailand from employment Overseas is taxable.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

Are you sure about that? I thought it was taxable unless you waited until the following year to bring it into the country.

Not that they'd know/be able to find out but just trying to confirm my understanding.

[Godders]

Under Thai Tax Laws only income received in Thailand from employment Overseas is taxable.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

Any income you make here should be taxed (above the thresholds) including interest payments from investments, as it is treated as receiving an income from Thailand.

If the interest is below the thresholds for tax allowances then this can be reclaimed.

I am automatically taxed on the interest I receive from my Fixed Bank Account, but because it is below the tax allowance, each year I can reclaim the full amount.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

I repeat, all UK pensions income remitted to Thailand is taxable here because pensions were specifically excluded from the double taxation agreements made between the two countries. Check it out.

[Liquorice]

Under Thai Tax Laws only income received in Thailand from employment Overseas is taxable.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

Any income you make here should be taxed (above the thresholds) including interest payments from investments, as it is treated as receiving an income from Thailand.

If the interest is below the thresholds for tax allowances then this can be reclaimed.

I am automatically taxed on the interest I receive from my Fixed Bank Account, but because it is below the tax allowance, each year I can reclaim the full amount.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

I repeat, all UK pensions income remitted to Thailand is taxable here because pensions were specifically excluded from the double taxation agreements made between the two countries. Check it out.

Taken from; UK/THAILAND DOUBLE TAXATION CONVENTION SIGNED 18 FEBRUARY 1981

Article 23 Elimination of Double Taxation

(1) In the case of the United Kingdom and subject to the provisions of the law of the United Kingdom regarding the allowance as a credit against United Kingdom tax of tax payable in a territory outside the United Kingdom (which shall not affect the general principle hereof):

(a) Thai tax payable under the laws of Thailand and in accordance with this Convention, whether directly or by deduction, on profits, income or chargeable gains from sources within Thailand (excluding, in the case of a dividend, tax payable in respect of the profits out of which the dividend is paid) shall be allowed as a credit against any United Kingdom tax computed by reference to the same profits, income or chargeable gains by reference to which the Thai tax is computed.

uk-thailand-dtc180281.pdf

[Godders]

Under Thai Tax Laws only income received in Thailand from employment Overseas is taxable.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

Any income you make here should be taxed (above the thresholds) including interest payments from investments, as it is treated as receiving an income from Thailand.

If the interest is below the thresholds for tax allowances then this can be reclaimed.

I am automatically taxed on the interest I receive from my Fixed Bank Account, but because it is below the tax allowance, each year I can reclaim the full amount.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

I repeat, all UK pensions income remitted to Thailand is taxable here because pensions were specifically excluded from the double taxation agreements made between the two countries. Check it out.

Taken from; UK/THAILAND DOUBLE TAXATION CONVENTION SIGNED 18 FEBRUARY 1981

Article 23 Elimination of Double Taxation

(1) In the case of the United Kingdom and subject to the provisions of the law of the United Kingdom regarding the allowance as a credit against United Kingdom tax of tax payable in a territory outside the United Kingdom (which shall not affect the general principle hereof):

(a) Thai tax payable under the laws of Thailand and in accordance with this Convention, whether directly or by deduction, on profits, income or chargeable gains from sources within Thailand (excluding, in the case of a dividend, tax payable in respect of the profits out of which the dividend is paid) shall be allowed as a credit against any United Kingdom tax computed by reference to the same profits, income or chargeable gains by reference to which the Thai tax is computed.

[chiang mai]

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

Under Thai Tax Laws only income received in Thailand from employment Overseas is taxable.

Pensions from overseas are not employment related and are not subject to taxation

Any income you make here should be taxed (above the thresholds) including interest payments from investments, as it is treated as receiving an income from Thailand.

If the interest is below the thresholds for tax allowances then this can be reclaimed.

I am automatically taxed on the interest I receive from my Fixed Bank Account, but because it is below the tax allowance, each year I can reclaim the full amount.

I repeat, all UK pensions income remitted to Thailand is taxable here because pensions were specifically excluded from the double taxation agreements made between the two countries. Check it out.

UK pension income is only taxable in Thailand, if remitted during the year it was earned.

[Godders]

Faz kindly posted this section, taken from a UK/THAILAND DOUBLE TAXATION CONVENTION SIGNED 18 FEBRUARY 1981

Article 23 Elimination of Double Taxation

(1) In the case of the United Kingdom and subject to the provisions of the law of the United Kingdom regarding the allowance as a credit against United Kingdom tax of tax payable in a territory outside the United Kingdom (which shall not affect the general principle hereof):
(a) Thai tax payable under the laws of Thailand and in accordance with this Convention, whether directly or by deduction, on profits, income or chargeable gains from sources within Thailand (excluding, in the case of a dividend, tax payable in respect of the profits out of which the dividend is paid) shall be allowed as a credit against any United Kingdom tax computed by reference to the same profits, income or chargeable gains by reference to which the Thai tax is computed.

Clear as mud. But one thing does seem pretty clear - that this portion of the Convention appears to refer only to income from sources within Thailand. whereas the point at issue is pensions income emanating from the UK.

Before I settled in Thailand, the UK tax experts I consulted said ALL and any income (including pensions) remitted to Thailand was liable to tax.

Now I know many UK pensioners living here do not declare their (net) pensions to the Thai tax authorities. And some say that their efforts to do so have been rejected by local tax offices. But this does not mean they are not liable.

My understanding, from what I have read of other postings on this vexed subject, is that the Thai tax authorities tend to turn a blind eye, for tax purposes, to income brought into the country by foreign residents. However, as we all know, Thais are generally averse to increasing their daily workload more than necessary and their laid-back attitude may be at odds with official policy.

With Thailand's future in the melting pot and a new administration clearly looking to increase the tax take generally, it would be helpful to know definitely what one is and is not liable for - not least to strengthen the case against the Osborne Plan to rob non-resident pensioners of their Personal Allowance.

[Liquorice]

Godders, you completely missed the point.

Article 23. Elimination of Double taxation

1 and a) are referring to income from within Thailand which ARE subject to Thai taxation.

Other incomes and Pensions which are subject to UK taxation are exempt from Taxation in Thailand.

Read the full document to understand more.

My UK remuneration is deposited in a Thai Bank account. I only pay tax on the interest accumulated in that account, which is classified as a profit or income made within Thailand. Because it falls below the personal allowance threshold for Thai taxation, I can reclaim that tax back each year.

As part of the reclamation I have to submit a form from the bank which details my pension deposits, total interest paid and tax paid on the interest.

The tax office confirms my UK income is not subject to Thai tax because it has already been taxed in the UK.

It's only the interest I earn from that account which is classified as income from within Thailand

[Expattaff1308]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

We welcome Ros Altmann as the new pensions Minister. According to this Telegraph article, she has said that she " would like to see the Government “look again” at the question of frozen state pensions for expats who live in certain countries".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11595261/A-warm-welcome-tothe-new-minister-for-personal-finance.html

[i claudius]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

We welcome Ros Altmann as the new pensions Minister. According to this Telegraph article, she has said that she " would like to see the Government “look again” at the question of frozen state pensions for expats who live in certain countries".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11595261/A-warm-welcome-tothe-new-minister-for-personal-finance.html

She would like to see the govt look at it again,then again and again and again in 10 years time

[evadgib]

Whichever one you choose...

Doing nothing won't solve anything.

Edited May 12, 2015 by evadgib