UK pensions

[sandyf]

Some potentially very bad news on pensions for many - including me

Article in the Telegraph today http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11608210/The-new-flat-rate-pension-where-everybody-gets-different-amounts.html

Basically if you were contracted out of SERPS at any time an amount based on old GMP values gets deducted from whatever you thought you were due........

Apologies if this has already been posted but is news to me.

If you contracted out of SERPS then you will receive a separate private pension from the contracted out contributions. Many tend to forget about that.

The real problem here is in the calculations, there are so many variables it is a mathematical nightmare. I didn't contract out but I know a few that did and some were better off and some worse.

With the variation in earnings over the working life and the decline in investment returns over the years, it is just impossible to make any valid comparisons.

It will probably take the best part of 30 years for this mess to sort itself out.

[i claudius]

Some potentially very bad news on pensions for many - including me

Article in the Telegraph today http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11608210/The-new-flat-rate-pension-where-everybody-gets-different-amounts.html

Basically if you were contracted out of SERPS at any time an amount based on old GMP values gets deducted from whatever you thought you were due........

Apologies if this has already been posted but is news to me.

If you contracted out of SERPS then you will receive a separate private pension from the contracted out contributions. Many tend to forget about that.

The real problem here is in the calculations, there are so many variables it is a mathematical nightmare. I didn't contract out but I know a few that did and some were better off and some worse.

With the variation in earnings over the working life and the decline in investment returns over the years, it is just impossible to make any valid comparisons.

It will probably take the best part of 30 years for this mess to sort itself out.

I opted out for 4 years then opted back in they now take half of my small private pension in tax,you can't win

[MaeJoMTB]

New pension drawdown rules ......... Arrrrggggg .........

So we all take out our 10,600GBP tax free allowance at the start of the tax year.

They deduct tax (about 3,000GBP), no choice, don't want a deduction, wait till the end of the tax year.

(they only give you 850gpb tax free a month and assume your income will be 10,600gbp a month for gods sake)

If it's your only income for the year you can immediately claim it back using form P55.pdf from HMRC (not sure how quick they will be) and posting.

But they can only process the refund by cheque and post it.

One step forward, two steps back.

[JetsetBkk]

New pension drawdown rules ......... Arrrrggggg .........

So we all take out our 10,600GBP tax free allowance at the start of the tax year.

They deduct tax (about 3,000GBP), no choice, don't want a deduction, wait till the end of the tax year.

(they only give you 850gpb tax free a month and assume your income will be 10,600gbp a month for gods sake)

If it's your only income for the year you can immediately claim it back using form P55.pdf from HMRC (not sure how quick they will be) and posting.

But they can only process the refund by cheque and post it.

One step forward, two steps back.

Good news #1:

I stopped claiming back tax in about 2006 after I filled in a form that said my income was less than the single man's allowance, or something like that. I can't remember which form but could probably find it in my records if you really need to know .

Then, instead of paying 22% tax on my income, I paid 0%. Haven't paid any tax since.

Good news #2:

I just checked my UK bank account - this month's pension is back to the old, non-uprated level, i.e. about 6 quid less. So they must have received my letter telling them where I live. So will they take off the extra 6 quid they gave me last month, or is that some kind of gift for being honest from these warm hearted lovely people in the UK?

Now, if only they would send me some kind of acknowledgement that they have actually received my letter, like an email or even a letter. That would be nice. Is that too much to ask?

I suppose I will have just as much luck receiving an acknowledgement as I did receiving my General Election voting papers, i.e. nil, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

[Liquorice]

Good news #1:

I stopped claiming back tax in about 2006 after I filled in a form that said my income was less than the single man's allowance, or something like that. I can't remember which form but could probably find it in my records if you really need to know .

Then, instead of paying 22% tax on my income, I paid 0%. Haven't paid any tax since.

P38(S) ?

[loppylugs1]

Good news #2:

I just checked my UK bank account - this month's pension is back to the old, non-uprated level, i.e. about 6 quid less. So they must have received my letter telling them where I live. So will they take off the extra 6 quid they gave me last month, or is that some kind of gift for being honest from these warm hearted lovely people in the UK?

Now, if only they would send me some kind of acknowledgement that they have actually received my letter, like an email or even a letter. That would be nice. Is that too much to ask?

I suppose I will have just as much luck receiving an acknowledgement as I did receiving my General Election voting papers, i.e. nil, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

Yes thrilled to bits no doubt.

It is not the £6,this is only for this year,wait until year 7 or so,£85 light friend of mine,not worth staying here is his verdict

[Expattaff1308]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

The election results have thrown Scotland and Northern Ireland into sharp focus. We need stories from frozen pensioners who have worked most of their lives in Scotland or Northern Ireland before moving overseas. If you can help us with your story for the press, please email [email protected]

[JetsetBkk]

Good news #1:

I stopped claiming back tax in about 2006 after I filled in a form that said my income was less than the single man's allowance, or something like that. I can't remember which form but could probably find it in my records if you really need to know .

Then, instead of paying 22% tax on my income, I paid 0%. Haven't paid any tax since.

P38(S) ?

I just checked - I think it was a P85.

I have a copy of it from Jan 2000 on my PC.

P38(s) is something to do with students. So thanks for the compliment if you think I'm that young!

[JetsetBkk]

Good news #2:

I just checked my UK bank account - this month's pension is back to the old, non-uprated level, i.e. about 6 quid less. So they must have received my letter telling them where I live. So will they take off the extra 6 quid they gave me last month, or is that some kind of gift for being honest from these warm hearted lovely people in the UK?

Now, if only they would send me some kind of acknowledgement that they have actually received my letter, like an email or even a letter. That would be nice. Is that too much to ask?

I suppose I will have just as much luck receiving an acknowledgement as I did receiving my General Election voting papers, i.e. nil, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

Yes thrilled to bits no doubt.

It is not the £6,this is only for this year,wait until year 7 or so,£85 light friend of mine,not worth staying here is his verdict

Yes, which is why I never took the state pension into consideration when I was working out my finances for staying here. Every bit I get from the DWP is a nice little extra - not quite as nice as when the baht was 75 to the GBP though.

[JetsetBkk]

More good news!

I received an official looking letter from the UK today. I was hoping it was my voting papers so I could send a big "Thank you" email to the "Elections Team" at the UK elections.gov.uk. Looks like I'll be doing that a bit later, if the papers ever arrive.

Today's letter was from the DWP, perfectly correctly addressed to me. Wow! Golly gosh. So they did get my letter that I sent exactly 2 months ago.

They want to know when I moved to Thailand and when I'll be returning.

I note there is no option for "I don't have a clue if I'm ever going back". Maybe I'll put 2025 (approx) (in an urn).

I like the bit near the end - "We can ring you back if you ask".

Off to buy a black ink biro tomorrow.

[thonglorjimmy]

Has anybody successfully claimed the appropriate rate when they've visited the UK, the EU or any other country that uprates pensions?

[transam]

More good news!

I received an official looking letter from the UK today. I was hoping it was my voting papers so I could send a big "Thank you" email to the "Elections Team" at the UK elections.gov.uk. Looks like I'll be doing that a bit later, if the papers ever arrive.

Today's letter was from the DWP, perfectly correctly addressed to me. Wow! Golly gosh. So they did get my letter that I sent exactly 2 months ago.

They want to know when I moved to Thailand and when I'll be returning.

I note there is no option for "I don't have a clue if I'm ever going back". Maybe I'll put 2025 (approx) (in an urn).

DWP Letter .jpg

I like the bit near the end - "We can ring you back if you ask".

Off to buy a black ink biro tomorrow.

The form shows that they do not know that we are all (99.9%) NON immigrants and stay here at the whim of the government of the day. Because of this the "how long are you staying" question is to me irrelevant.

[Jip99]

Good news #2:

I just checked my UK bank account - this month's pension is back to the old, non-uprated level, i.e. about 6 quid less. So they must have received my letter telling them where I live. So will they take off the extra 6 quid they gave me last month, or is that some kind of gift for being honest from these warm hearted lovely people in the UK?

Now, if only they would send me some kind of acknowledgement that they have actually received my letter, like an email or even a letter. That would be nice. Is that too much to ask?

I suppose I will have just as much luck receiving an acknowledgement as I did receiving my General Election voting papers, i.e. nil, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

Yes thrilled to bits no doubt.

It is not the £6,this is only for this year,wait until year 7 or so,£85 light friend of mine,not worth staying here is his verdict

Really ?

Someone would return to the UK for the sake of an £85 p.m. pension increase ?

They can't be very happy in Thailand

[loppylugs1]

Good news #2:

I just checked my UK bank account - this month's pension is back to the old, non-uprated level, i.e. about 6 quid less. So they must have received my letter telling them where I live. So will they take off the extra 6 quid they gave me last month, or is that some kind of gift for being honest from these warm hearted lovely people in the UK?

Now, if only they would send me some kind of acknowledgement that they have actually received my letter, like an email or even a letter. That would be nice. Is that too much to ask?

I suppose I will have just as much luck receiving an acknowledgement as I did receiving my General Election voting papers, i.e. nil, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

Yes thrilled to bits no doubt.

It is not the £6,this is only for this year,wait until year 7 or so,£85 light friend of mine,not worth staying here is his verdict

Really ?

Someone would return to the UK for the sake of an £85 p.m. pension increase ?

They can't be very happy in Thailand

That £85 is an increasing amount,try again in another 3 years well over £120

Think Cameron has shot himself in the foot with guarantee of 2.6 % increase through the next 5 years of OAP ,that sort of increase ,especially for someone on massive SERPs and additional pension is a hefty increase over a public sector increase (was it 1.4%) or something like and now CPI not RPI adjustment,sort of twice the amount over half the amount of sectored pension.

Yes they have no clue in the world where you are ,tell 'em,then they act

[dragonfly94]

Don't tell them anything, the MP's don't when they are claiming and they screw a lot more out of the system than pensioners aboard!

[Jip99]

Yes thrilled to bits no doubt.

It is not the £6,this is only for this year,wait until year 7 or so,£85 light friend of mine,not worth staying here is his verdict

Really ?

Someone would return to the UK for the sake of an £85 p.m. pension increase ?

They can't be very happy in Thailand

That £85 is an increasing amount,try again in another 3 years well over £120

Think Cameron has shot himself in the foot with guarantee of 2.6 % increase through the next 5 years of OAP ,that sort of increase ,especially for someone on massive SERPs and additional pension is a hefty increase over a public sector increase (was it 1.4%) or something like and now CPI not RPI adjustment,sort of twice the amount over half the amount of sectored pension.

Yes they have no clue in the world where you are ,tell 'em,then they act

We are now 10 years in and over that time - a total under £5/6,000 would not drag me back to the UK.

I regard my state pension as a bonus (to which I am fully entitled) and as long as I get it paid in 7 years time I will be content.

That said, I am not sure that I shall declare overseas residence.

[Rimmer]

Have to get a moderator to remove the duplicate posts,so damned slow and keeps reconnecting

Five duplicate posts removed

[lungbing]

But, Jip99, what if you only stayed in the UK for say, one year, meanwhile telling the authorities you intended to relocate to the UK. Your pension is uprated and then after a year you decide to give Thailand another try, taking your uprated pension with you..

[loppylugs1]

But, Jip99, what if you only stayed in the UK for say, one year, meanwhile telling the authorities you intended to relocate to the UK. Your pension is uprated and then after a year you decide to give Thailand another try, taking your uprated pension with you..

You do not have to go back to get an uprated pension.

They (DWP) are not interested in what or where an OAP is, the last furlong of life and people crapping themselves, pathetic They are disability and credits etc though and also if you are still alive

[Jip99]

But, Jip99, what if you only stayed in the UK for say, one year, meanwhile telling the authorities you intended to relocate to the UK. Your pension is uprated and then after a year you decide to give Thailand another try, taking your uprated pension with you..

..... and presumably Lungbing, not telling them of my return to Thailand ?

That would be a strategy I would certainly consider for medical treatment - should I develop something serious but am still able to travel back to the UK.

In my case I have almost 7 years to wait before I claim the state pension. Where, and how, I claim will be decided at that time.

[NoshowJones]

What was the pledge of the Lib Dems when they formed a coalition with the Conservatives.

We will not increase University fees.

What did they do as soon as they were in power?

If you don't know it by now, they are all hypocrites, but some are better liars than others.

Yes, and Labour " the party of the working classes, what a joke", are bigger hypocrites and liars than

all the other political parties put together.

[NoshowJones]

Now just get rid of Scotland and that Barnett formula.,what a wonderful world

I was enjoying your post until that last line, who's Barnett? I was always for Scottish independence, but I would be happy with a UKIP led UK

as long as they did not have the Tax Tax Tax mentality of all the British governments in my lifetime, particularly Labour.

Joel Barnett was a Treasury Minister in Harold Wilson's government who came up with a formula for public expenditure per head in Scotland to be x% above the percapita expenditure in England - presumably to keep the Scots sweet and voting Labour. It worked for long enough, but now it looks as though the Scots have never been grateful for this largesse.

I have never heard of this Barnett guy, but from what I could see, the Scottish mentality was "My father voted Labour, so I must also".

That's one of the reasons it took so long for my fellow Scots to waken up.

But they sure missed the boat last September.

[NoshowJones]

Conservatives have pledged the OAP will rise £1000 a year ,or £20 a week by the end of their term too

That won't make a scrap of difference to most expats in Thailand.

Meanwhile back in the UK, the Tories now have a free hand to do as they wish.

1. 12bn of planned cuts to the welfare system, so the poor, disabled, elderly and disadvantaged will be hit the hardest.

2. Unemployment should fall....as more are forced into unfair and inadequate contracts...food banks will continue to rise.

3. Creeping privatisation of our Education and Health system. But don't worry the NHS will remain free...as the death tolls rise.

4. Cuts will fall heavily on local Councils and Public Services, like the Police, Fire Service and Prisons who are already stretched.

5. A referendum on Europe and scrapping the Human Rights Act, although we'll keep the good bits like TTIP, which will hand over swathes of our national sovereignty to multi-national corporations. But that’s okay because foreigners are alright as long as they’re big businesses; it’s only the poor ones we don’t like.

In 5 years I think Labour and UKIP will be back with a bang!

Pity help the people of the UK if the lying hypocrites of Labour, the "party of the working class"?????? ever come back with any bang.

<deleted>

Reasoned thoughtful comment , i take it you own a large co and or stinking rich cos thats the only ones the tories have ever looked after.

That's the only ones both the Labour and Tories have ever looked after in my lifetime, and Labour are far bigger hypocrites than the Tories.

[lungbing]

Jip99, I think that if you returned to the UK for a year telling DWP you intented to stay, and had your pension brought up to the level current at that time as a result, then if you chose to go back to Thailand after that year then you would keep the uprated pension even if you told them you were going back. You would of course lose further increases as at present. It wouldn't be worth doing for a few quid a month increase, but there must be a cutoff point where it does become financially viable even allowing for the cost of living in the UK for that year.

[loppylugs1]

Jip99, I think that if you returned to the UK for a year telling DWP you intented to stay, and had your pension brought up to the level current at that time as a result, then if you chose to go back to Thailand after that year then you would keep the uprated pension even if you told them you were going back. You would of course lose further increases as at present. It wouldn't be worth doing for a few quid a month increase, but there must be a cutoff point where it does become financially viable even allowing for the cost of living in the UK for that year.

Often I wonder at the mindset of some people,here you are 65 plus ,frightened to death at something that has never happened/or will.

Get a bloody one way ticket from Paris,Lisbon ,Brussels,anywhere near the UK ,print it off (£23 last time I looked) send it to DWP with UK address,that is it,you have arrived,uprated.

For departure fly via Anywhere

[prakhonchai nick]

Jip99, I think that if you returned to the UK for a year telling DWP you intented to stay, and had your pension brought up to the level current at that time as a result, then if you chose to go back to Thailand after that year then you would keep the uprated pension even if you told them you were going back. You would of course lose further increases as at present. It wouldn't be worth doing for a few quid a month increase, but there must be a cutoff point where it does become financially viable even allowing for the cost of living in the UK for that year.

I think the DWP rules are that if you return to the UK, whilst in receipt of a frozen pension, you are immediately uprated to receive the current UK pension. Should you then later (1/2/3 years or whatever) return to a "frozen pension" country, I believe your pension would be reduced to that which you initially received, and not re-frozen at the level currently being received..

[prakhonchai nick]

BEREAVEMENT BENEFITS

A Thai widow -or indeed a Thai widower, is entitled to claim UK bereavement benefits following the death of a spouse. These take the form of a bereavement payment of £2,000, and possibly a widowed parents allowance where there are eligible children,or if no children, and the widow (er) is over 45 at the time of death, a widows allowance (formerly known as a widows pension) payable for just 1 year.

Whilst it is widely assumed that payments are based upon NI contributions, (with 44 required for maxmum benefit), this has recently proven to not be the case.

A local Isaan based firm -Thai Widows & Expats, who have assisted widows claim benefits over the past 5 years, have just been advised that bereavement benefits are based on the frozen pension of the spouse, and not the current basic bereavement benefit. This means that for example a bereavement allowance for a 49 year old spouse where more than 44 NI contributions had been made would not be paid at the advertised weekly rate of £64.50, (ie 58% of the current bereavement benefit rate) but instead at 58% of the spouses frozen pension, which if the spouse had been in receipt of the frozen pension for 10/15 or even 20 years would be a very small sum indeed.

This information is not published. The DWP and governement go to great lengths to advise on the frozen pension, and to indicate that bereavement benefits are based solely on NI contributions. THIS IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE for those in receipt of frozen pensions!

[chiang mai]

Jip99, I think that if you returned to the UK for a year telling DWP you intented to stay, and had your pension brought up to the level current at that time as a result, then if you chose to go back to Thailand after that year then you would keep the uprated pension even if you told them you were going back. You would of course lose further increases as at present. It wouldn't be worth doing for a few quid a month increase, but there must be a cutoff point where it does become financially viable even allowing for the cost of living in the UK for that year.

I think the DWP rules are that if you return to the UK, whilst in receipt of a frozen pension, you are immediately uprated to receive the current UK pension. Should you then later (1/2/3 years or whatever) return to a "frozen pension" country, I believe your pension would be reduced to that which you initially received, and not re-frozen at the level currently being received..

I think that pensions that have been frozen and then uprated upon return to the UK, remain at uprated level as long as the pensioner remains in the UK for more than six months and/or declares their intention to remain - I do not believe they revert to the old level ever again.

[prakhonchai nick]

Jip99, I think that if you returned to the UK for a year telling DWP you intented to stay, and had your pension brought up to the level current at that time as a result, then if you chose to go back to Thailand after that year then you would keep the uprated pension even if you told them you were going back. You would of course lose further increases as at present. It wouldn't be worth doing for a few quid a month increase, but there must be a cutoff point where it does become financially viable even allowing for the cost of living in the UK for that year.

I think the DWP rules are that if you return to the UK, whilst in receipt of a frozen pension, you are immediately uprated to receive the current UK pension. Should you then later (1/2/3 years or whatever) return to a "frozen pension" country, I believe your pension would be reduced to that which you initially received, and not re-frozen at the level currently being received..

I think that pensions that have been frozen and then uprated upon return to the UK, remain at uprated level as long as the pensioner remains in the UK for more than six months and/or declares their intention to remain - I do not believe they revert to the old level ever again.

It would be nice to believe this was the case. However, the DWP do not declare their hand in advance (see Bereavement Benefits post above). The proof would be in the pudding!

[nontabury]

Jip99, I think that if you returned to the UK for a year telling DWP you intented to stay, and had your pension brought up to the level current at that time as a result, then if you chose to go back to Thailand after that year then you would keep the uprated pension even if you told them you were going back. You would of course lose further increases as at present. It wouldn't be worth doing for a few quid a month increase, but there must be a cutoff point where it does become financially viable even allowing for the cost of living in the UK for that year.

I think the DWP rules are that if you return to the UK, whilst in receipt of a frozen pension, you are immediately uprated to receive the current UK pension. Should you then later (1/2/3 years or whatever) return to a "frozen pension" country, I believe your pension would be reduced to that which you initially received, and not re-frozen at the level currently being received..

If you return to the UK your pension is updated from that day. Should you return to Thailand within 2yrs your pension will revert to the amount you received before you entered the UK. However if you return to Thailand after two years and you are silly enough to inform them, then your pension will then be frozen at the amount you are then receiving at the date of your departure.