Running A Bar On Samui

[jamesbrock]

For those who know the value of a baht, spending money on food and atmosphere at 50 to 100% of the price of other, less hotsie totsie places, has nothing to do with the size of your wallet. It has everything to do with the size of your brain.

Wow, that was unnecessarily nasty! There's no need to be like that because some people like a place that you don't.

Spending money that you can afford on food that you enjoy in surroundings that are comfortable, even if it is 50 to 100% of the price of "other, less hotsie totsie places" - and even if it is 800% of the price of the delicious noodle soup across the road that you also enjoy - does not mean that you don't understand the value of money, nor does it mean that you're mentally challenged.

I owned and sold a bar in on Soi Green Mango a few years ago. Thinking back it reminds me of my two ex-wives and two boats that I bought and sold. The day that I got married, I was happy, the day that I got divorced I was extremely happy, but out a lot of money. The day that I bought the boats, I was happy, the day that I sold them I was extremely happy, but out a lot of money. The day that I bought the bar in Samui I was happy, the day that I found a sucker to buy it, I was unbelieveablly happy, but again out a lot of money. To me they were all the same, just a big hole to throw money into without any return on investment. Would I do it all over again, probably! After all, hind sight is 20/20. Good luck, whatever your decision is!

Back on topic: wayned, how long did you own the bar for? Was the loss you made much greater than the amount of money you would have spent during that time doing nothing? I mean, say your average non-working, non-business owning expat has a monthly budget of 40,000 baht (I pulled this figure from the air, I have no idea what the average expat spends); in a year he spends 480,000 baht basically treading water. Then we another expat who has a million baht lying around and decides to buy a bar; so he finds a bar that has a room upstairs where he can live... In the course of a year his bar has good times, where he makes a modest profit, and bad times, where he ploughs money into just keeping it open before deciding to sell to the next starry-eyed farang - for roughly the same amount, if not more, than he bought it for. Do you think this second expat ends up more than half a million baht out of pocket? Sure, he might not have had any ROI, but he probably hasn't lost too much more that he would have spent just treading water for a year; he's had something to occupy his time, probably made some good mates, and more than likely had a blast. That doesn't sound like a terrible proposition to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: buying or starting a bar in Samui isn't necessarily the first step towards financial oblivion that most of the posters here on TV would have you believe (most of which have never or could ever do the same). Sure there are a million stories of starry-eyed farangs coming here and buying the first thing they see without any knowledge of the tourism trends and selling at a loss - some of whom, like wayned, who although he made a huge loss himself, would probably do it again; and then there are those who are currently running successful bars, many of whom regular posters on TV, and then those have made a truckload of money (one I know personally started with very little about a decade ago, and now has more money than he knows what to do with).

I can be done. It requires a lot of research and due diligence to find the right place in the right location at the right price, a solid business plan detailing exactly who you want to attract and how you're going to do so, and a shit-ton of work to make that happen.

Edited April 5, 2012 by jamesbrock

[ydraw]

buying or starting a bar in Samui isn't necessarily the first step towards financial oblivion that most of the posters here on TV would have you believe

The biggest issue in Samui really, is that if you do beat the odds and start turning over some good business, you know for sure that when you go to renew your lease, they'll quadruple the price.

[jamesbrock]

The biggest issue in Samui really, is that if you do beat the odds and start turning over some good business, you know for sure that when you go to renew your lease, they'll quadruple the price.

So so true. Same with key money. Speaking of which: is key money just another grab for cash that is unique to Samui? I have recently been looking at places in Chiang Mai, and I cannot recall any that I have seen so far mentioning key money... Have I just not noticed, or is it a Samui thing?

[marstons]

The Outback in Lamai makes a lot of money too. The location is so good it doesn't seem to matter how many customers Alf Stewart Bart tells to XXXXXX off. And unlike Bondi, the prices are reasonable and it is owned by an actual Australian.

Well at least the front man is Aussie in Bondi, American Run, South African owned i beleive

[insertmembernamehere]

Wow, that was unnecessarily nasty!

No, just pointed. And it was not directed at you. It was aimed more at someone who seems to think that Samui expats are mainly cash-strapped. I am not sure if that is true or not, but there is an argument for spending and thrift unrelated to one's net worth. There is also an argument for spending money on restaurant food regardless of the relative cost.

I know people who think spending more than 70 baht on a meal is scandalous. I also know people who think an 800 baht bottle of wine with a meal out is trivial.

But I think anyone can understand spending 70 baht on food and atmosphere that is worth 20 baht is questionable, just as paying 800 baht for a bottle of 350 baht wine is.

Now for some, cost is completely irrelevant. If you can afford to stay at the Banyon Tree Samui (cheapest rooms are about 40,000 baht a night), then who cares what the mark-up is? If you are one of these folks, more power to ya.

As for bars, I think the people who come in nowadays have little chance to really make it big. It is possible (Bondi is a very big investment in capital, rents and operating costs -- not your average Joe can afford this -- and perhaps including some franchise costs?) but the fact is the ideal locations with sound business models are mostly already fixtures on the island. I think the mass of places that are turned over are, as I said, smaller, "be someone right away" on a shoestring (or your life savings, apropos of the cash-strapped expat) experiments.

Also, the whole idea of " right place in the right location at the right price, (and) a solid business plan" in Samui is oxymoronical. If people actually did any homework and thought out a plan, they would never invest here. Ever.

But here's a freebie for you people with money burning a hole in your pocket: Crystal ice vendors....instead of the shaved/white ice that is delivered in trucks around the island, have a processing plant that makes crystal clear ice cubes (of varying sizes). Everything looks better with pure and clear ice. It's a better product at a time when resorts, hotels, restaurants and shops are moving upscale.

[Boater]

Now for some, cost is completely irrelevant. If you can afford to stay at the Banyon Tree Samui (cheapest rooms are about 40,000 baht a night),

you can get some deals for 31,000 THB ... but the whole hotel is FULLY BOOKED for April, and not many rooms left for May !, plus they charge around 350 THB plus tax and service charge for a Beer, and 500 THB for Fried Rice..

[Rooo]

Now for some, cost is completely irrelevant. If you can afford to stay at the Banyon Tree Samui (cheapest rooms are about 40,000 baht a night),

you can get some deals for 31,000 THB ... but the whole hotel is FULLY BOOKED for April, and not many rooms left for May !, plus they charge around 350 THB plus tax and service charge for a Beer, and 500 THB for Fried Rice..

But the beer is cold & the rice is yummy.

[Samui Coconut]

Now for some, cost is completely irrelevant. If you can afford to stay at the Banyon Tree Samui (cheapest rooms are about 40,000 baht a night),

you can get some deals for 31,000 THB ... but the whole hotel is FULLY BOOKED for April, and not many rooms left for May !, plus they charge around 350 THB plus tax and service charge for a Beer, and 500 THB for Fried Rice..

But the beer is cold & the rice is yummy.

Their present net rate is only 12-14,000......not that bad....and May have plenty of rooms left. Just book

[wayned]

For those who know the value of a baht, spending money on food and atmosphere at 50 to 100% of the price of other, less hotsie totsie places, has nothing to do with the size of your wallet. It has everything to do with the size of your brain.

Wow, that was unnecessarily nasty! There's no need to be like that because some people like a place that you don't.

Spending money that you can afford on food that you enjoy in surroundings that are comfortable, even if it is 50 to 100% of the price of "other, less hotsie totsie places" - and even if it is 800% of the price of the delicious noodle soup across the road that you also enjoy - does not mean that you don't understand the value of money, nor does it mean that you're mentally challenged.

I owned and sold a bar in on Soi Green Mango a few years ago. Thinking back it reminds me of my two ex-wives and two boats that I bought and sold. The day that I got married, I was happy, the day that I got divorced I was extremely happy, but out a lot of money. The day that I bought the boats, I was happy, the day that I sold them I was extremely happy, but out a lot of money. The day that I bought the bar in Samui I was happy, the day that I found a sucker to buy it, I was unbelieveablly happy, but again out a lot of money. To me they were all the same, just a big hole to throw money into without any return on investment. Would I do it all over again, probably! After all, hind sight is 20/20. Good luck, whatever your decision is!

Back on topic: wayned, how long did you own the bar for? Was the loss you made much greater than the amount of money you would have spent during that time doing nothing? I mean, say your average non-working, non-business owning expat has a monthly budget of 40,000 baht (I pulled this figure from the air, I have no idea what the average expat spends); in a year he spends 480,000 baht basically treading water. Then we another expat who has a million baht lying around and decides to buy a bar; so he finds a bar that has a room upstairs where he can live... In the course of a year his bar has good times, where he makes a modest profit, and bad times, where he ploughs money into just keeping it open before deciding to sell to the next starry-eyed farang - for roughly the same amount, if not more, than he bought it for. Do you think this second expat ends up more than half a million baht out of pocket? Sure, he might not have had any ROI, but he probably hasn't lost too much more that he would have spent just treading water for a year; he's had something to occupy his time, probably made some good mates, and more than likely had a blast. That doesn't sound like a terrible proposition to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: buying or starting a bar in Samui isn't necessarily the first step towards financial oblivion that most of the posters here on TV would have you believe (most of which have never or could ever do the same). Sure there are a million stories of starry-eyed farangs coming here and buying the first thing they see without any knowledge of the tourism trends and selling at a loss - some of whom, like wayned, who although he made a huge loss himself, would probably do it again; and then there are those who are currently running successful bars, many of whom regular posters on TV, and then those have made a truckload of money (one I know personally started with very little about a decade ago, and now has more money than he knows what to do with).

I can be done. It requires a lot of research and due diligence to find the right place in the right location at the right price, a solid business plan detailing exactly who you want to attract and how you're going to do so, and a shit-ton of work to make that happen.

ydraw in post #62 hit the nail on the head. The issue was was really Samui and how it changed.

Bought the bar in the mid 1990's. Dirt road, basically backpackers and Charlie's Huts at 100 baht/night. Had 3 year lease with the option to pay yearly with a 10% penalty. Made a small profit and lived comfortably.

At lease renewal the lease doubled with same options. Renewed lease. Tore down bar, single story, and built two story. Top floor living quarters for staff. Offsite acommadtions also getting expensive. Extra cash outlay for construction out of pocket. Made some money but profits down. The type of people coming was changing. No more "Charlie's Huts" and the streets were now paved. Mc Donalds came in and a lot of bungalows were replaced by high rise costly resorts. My rent tripled were I lived.

At lease renewal, the lease quadrupled and had to be paid in full upfront. Landlord would not negiotiate either length, price or conditions. I renewed, but really think that the landlord wanted me to decline. Lease payment out of pocket. Business was down, house rent went up again. Samui was really changing fast, there were more families with money, less backpackers. It was obvious that the bar could no longer support itself so I put it up for sale. To my delight I actually received and accepted an offer. The books were all in order and if you had any sense you could see the declining income and profitability. It made no difference to the buyer, it's was for his girlfriend. What can I say, I got out quick and left. I now live on my retirement in a province north of Bangkok.

This is just my experience. I'm not giving advice to the OP to buy or not to buy. Just be sure that he does the research and due diligence to insure he understands what he is getting into and it is within his business plan. I obviously didn't. I never thought that backer Samui would turn into what it is today. I haven't been back since they day I transferred ownership of the bar, I imagine that it would be a real awakening.

Edited April 6, 2012 by wayned

[insertmembernamehere]

but the whole hotel is FULLY BOOKED for April, and not many rooms left for May !

I find that very difficult to believe, for various reasons. Can you provide a source for this assertion?

[itishothere]

but the whole hotel is FULLY BOOKED for April, and not many rooms left for May !

I find that very difficult to believe, for various reasons. Can you provide a source for this assertion?

I would be delighted for them if they were full, but from their website, for the week of 22 April, they have 5 different rooms available. My guess is that Songran/Easter is maybe when they are actually full?

[BangrakBob]

But here's a freebie for you people with money burning a hole in your pocket: Crystal ice vendors....instead of the shaved/white ice that is delivered in trucks around the island, have a processing plant that makes crystal clear ice cubes (of varying sizes). Everything looks better with pure and clear ice. It's a better product at a time when resorts, hotels, restaurants and shops are moving upscale.

Wouldn't this one of those type of businesses that could burn a hole in the side of your head with a bullet? I was just thinking about it the other day, watching the vendors delivering, thinking these guys must do alright. If you opened an ice business would it not be unlike, opening a taxi boat service to Full Moon Party or the like?

[BigC]

Just do it !

[jamesbrock]

No, just pointed. And it was not directed at you. It was aimed more at someone who seems to think that Samui expats are mainly cash-strapped. I am not sure if that is true or not, but there is an argument for spending and thrift unrelated to one's net worth. There is also an argument for spending money on restaurant food regardless of the relative cost.

Pointed and nasty, regardless of who it was aimed at.

I know people who think spending more than 70 baht on a meal is scandalous. I also know people who think an 800 baht bottle of wine with a meal out is trivial.

But I think anyone can understand spending 70 baht on food and atmosphere that is worth 20 baht is questionable, just as paying 800 baht for a bottle of 350 baht wine is.

Now for some, cost is completely irrelevant. If you can afford to stay at the Banyon Tree Samui (cheapest rooms are about 40,000 baht a night), then who cares what the mark-up is? If you are one of these folks, more power to ya.

But, again, just because you don't like the food or atmosphere at Bondi, so resent paying their prices for a meal there, it doesn't mean that those who do like the food and atmosphere at Bondi think they're paying too much. The ones who eat there obviously understand that they're getting their 480 baht value for their delicious full rack of ribs, and 280 baht value for their pint of delicious ice cold Magners - or they wouldn't go back there. There's no need to belittle, or direct pointed remarks towards those who have different values to you.

As for bars, I think the people who come in nowadays have little chance to really make it big. It is possible (Bondi is a very big investment in capital, rents and operating costs -- not your average Joe can afford this -- and perhaps including some franchise costs?) but the fact is the ideal locations with sound business models are mostly already fixtures on the island. I think the mass of places that are turned over are, as I said, smaller, "be someone right away" on a shoestring (or your life savings, apropos of the cash-strapped expat) experiments.

No one has said they expect to make it big, and I don't really think anyone on this forum is silly enough to think they'll be able to make it big - unless, of course, they can afford to do something like Bondi. And I completely disagree that all 'ideal locations' already have have sound business models - I know a lot of establishments that are barely subsisting based solely on their location (one I would buy in a heartbeat if it was ever put on the market), and a lot that make money, but only do so because of their location, not because they have anything good or different to offer at all. Maybe they're only wasting their potential because they spent everything they had to get in; who knows, but there are a lot of them.

Also, the whole idea of " right place in the right location at the right price, (and) a solid business plan" in Samui is oxymoronical. If people actually did any homework and thought out a plan, they would never invest here. Ever.

Again disagree with you wholeheartedly.

[jamesbrock]

ydraw in post #62 hit the nail on the head. The issue was was really Samui and how it changed.

Bought the bar in the mid 1990's. Dirt road, basically backpackers and Charlie's Huts at 100 baht/night. Had 3 year lease with the option to pay yearly with a 10% penalty. Made a small profit and lived comfortably.

At lease renewal the lease doubled with same options. Renewed lease. Tore down bar, single story, and built two story. Top floor living quarters for staff. Offsite acommadtions also getting expensive. Extra cash outlay for construction out of pocket. Made some money but profits down. The type of people coming was changing. No more "Charlie's Huts" and the streets were now paved. Mc Donalds came in and a lot of bungalows were replaced by high rise costly resorts. My rent tripled were I lived.

At lease renewal, the lease quadrupled and had to be paid in full upfront. Landlord would not negiotiate either length, price or conditions. I renewed, but really think that the landlord wanted me to decline. Lease payment out of pocket. Business was down, house rent went up again. Samui was really changing fast, there were more families with money, less backpackers. It was obvious that the bar could no longer support itself so I put it up for sale. To my delight I actually received and accepted an offer. The books were all in order and if you had any sense you could see the declining income and profitability. It made no difference to the buyer, it's was for his girlfriend. What can I say, I got out quick and left. I now live on my retirement in a province north of Bangkok.

This is just my experience. I'm not giving advice to the OP to buy or not to buy. Just be sure that he does the research and due diligence to insure he understands what he is getting into and it is within his business plan. I obviously didn't. I never thought that backer Samui would turn into what it is today. I haven't been back since they day I transferred ownership of the bar, I imagine that it would be a real awakening.

Thanks for the detailed answer.

So the bottom line is: you made a small profit and lived comfortably. Not quite the financial suicide that most posters think all bar/cafe/restaurant purchases will turn out. And, despite the issues, I'm sure you had a pretty good few years, and wouldn't have traded it for sitting around twiddling your thumbs watching your savings dwindle every month?

[limbos]

Read again, the first three years he made a small profit, the way I read it, after that, he had plenty of out of pocket expenses and not necessarily any profit anymore, especially not with the last renewal.

[itsala]

Despite the fact that this topic was started in jest, it has raised some interesting points.

It has always surprised me that people are prepared to risk their savings on a venture that they have no previous experience in.

When I started mine I came from a pub management background, and still found a lot of problems. To start a f+b operation as a layman is pretty tough, especially in a foreign country, not knowing the language, laws or customs.

Just say plumbing was as fun, you wouldn't travel half way round the world with no experience and set up a business in that would you??!!

[jamesbrock]

Despite the fact that this topic was started in jest, it has raised some interesting points.

It has always surprised me that people are prepared to risk their savings on a venture that they have no previous experience in.

Yes, me too; and I'm sure you'll find a pretty high correlation between those who have experience, and those who have been somewhat successful. Conversely, you would also find a correlation between laymen, and those who have lost a lot of money on failed ventures.

[itishothere]

Despite the fact that this topic was started in jest, it has raised some interesting points.

It has always surprised me that people are prepared to risk their savings on a venture that they have no previous experience in.

Yes, me too; and I'm sure you'll find a pretty high correlation between those who have experience, and those who have been somewhat successful. Conversely, you would also find a correlation between laymen, and those who have lost a lot of money on failed ventures.

And surely, for many men, it is a dreamlike existence? Running your own bar, filled with pretty girls keeping the punters happy, on a tropical island. And all this for less than the price of a 2 bed terraced house in Barnsley.

Where I come from (UK), it can be pretty depressing sometimes. The thought of living the dream must be very tempting. I will be the first to mock the naiivety sometimes, but I will also applaud their guts in giving it a try.

[smokie36]

ydraw in post #62 hit the nail on the head. The issue was was really Samui and how it changed.

Bought the bar in the mid 1990's. Dirt road, basically backpackers and Charlie's Huts at 100 baht/night. Had 3 year lease with the option to pay yearly with a 10% penalty. Made a small profit and lived comfortably.

At lease renewal the lease doubled with same options. Renewed lease. Tore down bar, single story, and built two story. Top floor living quarters for staff. Offsite acommadtions also getting expensive. Extra cash outlay for construction out of pocket. Made some money but profits down. The type of people coming was changing. No more "Charlie's Huts" and the streets were now paved. Mc Donalds came in and a lot of bungalows were replaced by high rise costly resorts. My rent tripled were I lived.

At lease renewal, the lease quadrupled and had to be paid in full upfront. Landlord would not negiotiate either length, price or conditions. I renewed, but really think that the landlord wanted me to decline. Lease payment out of pocket. Business was down, house rent went up again. Samui was really changing fast, there were more families with money, less backpackers. It was obvious that the bar could no longer support itself so I put it up for sale. To my delight I actually received and accepted an offer. The books were all in order and if you had any sense you could see the declining income and profitability. It made no difference to the buyer, it's was for his girlfriend. What can I say, I got out quick and left. I now live on my retirement in a province north of Bangkok.

This is just my experience. I'm not giving advice to the OP to buy or not to buy. Just be sure that he does the research and due diligence to insure he understands what he is getting into and it is within his business plan. I obviously didn't. I never thought that backer Samui would turn into what it is today. I haven't been back since they day I transferred ownership of the bar, I imagine that it would be a real awakening.

Thanks for the detailed answer.

So the bottom line is: you made a small profit and lived comfortably. Not quite the financial suicide that most posters think all bar/cafe/restaurant purchases will turn out. And, despite the issues, I'm sure you had a pretty good few years, and wouldn't have traded it for sitting around twiddling your thumbs watching your savings dwindle every month?

You would be better advised to digest his comments regarding the changing demographics I think.

[itsala]

Despite the fact that this topic was started in jest, it has raised some interesting points.

It has always surprised me that people are prepared to risk their savings on a venture that they have no previous experience in.

Yes, me too; and I'm sure you'll find a pretty high correlation between those who have experience, and those who have been somewhat successful. Conversely, you would also find a correlation between laymen, and those who have lost a lot of money on failed ventures.

And surely, for many men, it is a dreamlike existence? Running your own bar, filled with pretty girls keeping the punters happy, on a tropical island. And all this for less than the price of a 2 bed terraced house in Barnsley.

Where I come from (UK), it can be pretty depressing sometimes. The thought of living the dream must be very tempting. I will be the first to mock the naiivety sometimes, but I will also applaud their guts in giving it a try.

I could't agree more, you should always try and chase that dream, and in no way am trying put anyone of.

But a quick trip to immigration detention centre in Surrat might be good idea for any budding inn keepers. When you go skint, on overstay and no money to eat, no one to get a ticket home for you - that is where you will end up, and if you are English there you will rot, as your government will not bale you out. ( I rescued a destitute pal from there last year).

Live the dream, but always leave a little money back to get out if you need to.

[jamesbrock]

Read again, the first three years he made a small profit, the way I read it, after that, he had plenty of out of pocket expenses and not necessarily any profit anymore, especially not with the last renewal.

We all read things differently. The way I read it, his income and profitability were declining as he was selling the bar, and he actually got out with a small profit; but will be happy to admit I am wrong if and when he comes back to clarify.

You would be better advised to digest his comments regarding the changing demographics I think.

And you believe I didn't digest his comments regarding the changing demographics because I wasn't converted to your way of thinking? Interesting...

[PoorSucker]

But here's a freebie for you people with money burning a hole in your pocket: Crystal ice vendors...

I stopped reading here....

[smokie36]

Read again, the first three years he made a small profit, the way I read it, after that, he had plenty of out of pocket expenses and not necessarily any profit anymore, especially not with the last renewal.

We all read things differently. The way I read it, his income and profitability were declining as he was selling the bar, and he actually got out with a small profit; but will be happy to admit I am wrong if and when he comes back to clarify.

You would be better advised to digest his comments regarding the changing demographics I think.

And you believe I didn't digest his comments regarding the changing demographics because I wasn't converted to your way of thinking? Interesting...

Haha my "way of thinking".....no mate I just don't want to see anyone else lose their hard earned.

[wayned]

Read again, the first three years he made a small profit, the way I read it, after that, he had plenty of out of pocket expenses and not necessarily any profit anymore, especially not with the last renewal.

We all read things differently. The way I read it, his income and profitability were declining as he was selling the bar, and he actually got out with a small profit; but will be happy to admit I am wrong if and when he comes back to clarify.

You would be better advised to digest his comments regarding the changing demographics I think.

And you believe I didn't digest his comments regarding the changing demographics because I wasn't converted to your way of thinking? Interesting...

To put a round figure on it, it cost me nearly 6,000,000 baht of my personal funds over the 8.5 years. So in my terms, "I lost my ass"! It was mostly caused by the changing demographics and my lack of experience and inability to implement positive corrective changes.

[jamesbrock]

Haha my "way of thinking".....no mate I just don't want to see anyone else lose their hard earned.

Not many people do (want to see that), but thanks for your concern. I won't be buying anything on Samui anytime soon.

To put a round figure on it, it cost me nearly 6,000,000 baht of my personal funds over the 8.5 years. So in my terms, "I lost my ass"! It was mostly caused by the changing demographics and my lack of experience and inability to implement positive corrective changes.

Ok, so I did read your post wrong. But if that was everything you spent in the 8.5 years, it works out to around 60,000 baht per month. I know guys here that piss more than that up against the wall - at least you had (I assume) some pretty good times!

I know how I'd rather spend 60,000 per month!

[insertmembernamehere]

Jamesbrock said:

Not quite the financial suicide that most posters think all bar/cafe/restaurant purchases will turn out.

Aside from admittedly getting the bottom line turned around, this might add credence to the concept that many (not all) bars will not turn out well.

I suppose we ought to define "make it big." What I have seen is that nearly all girlie bars make enough money or break even such that the foreign owner can continue to live in the Kingdom on a more or less hand-to-mouth existence.

That's not financial suicide but more financial life-support.

I am not suggesting that every or even some entrepreneurs will profit enough to buy that five-bedroom villa on the beach, drive an Audi R8, and holiday in the Banyon Tree's 135,000 baht a night suite. I am not even suggesting that bar incomes will allow you to buy a modest house on a mountain, drive a Nissan rustbucket PU2 and holiday in Charlie's Huts with no toilet, although that might be possible.

"Making it" means to me being able to live in a middle-class place, drive a decent car, have a scooter and a Harley, holiday in Hong Kong, gamble a bit in Macau, upgrade your camera to the new Canon G1X, replace that laptop with a mid- to high-end one and still have enough cash to think about how to spend it. And do that every year.

I admire the optimism of JB, but you too have seen the disastrous bar turnover and the blithe ignorance with which the subsequent waves come in to start the cycle again.

I may be nasty at time some times, but I am always ugly...hehe...

OH, and the crystal ice idea I think is good enough to win the Samui Golden Bullet Award, worn briefly but proudly on the temple. I am 100% sure I could provide a much better product at a lower cost and with better delivery and service, not to mention making the customer feel he is buying something of quality.

Better yet: Check this out:

Monkeys serve in sake bar

[jamesbrock]

OH, and the crystal ice idea I think is good enough to win the Samui Golden Bullet Award, worn briefly but proudly on the temple. I am 100% sure I could provide a much better product at a lower cost and with better delivery and service, not to mention making the customer feel he is buying something of quality.

Crystal Ice sounds too much like something else...

[itishothere]

"Making it" means to me being able to live in a middle-class place, drive a decent car, have a scooter and a Harley, holiday in Hong Kong, gamble a bit in Macau, upgrade your camera to the new Canon G1X, replace that laptop with a mid- to high-end one and still have enough cash to think about how to spend it. And do that every year.

"Making it" to some, means waking up every morning in a simple house and being your own boss. Or seeing a beautiful sunrise over the horizon onto the blue water. The car, Harley, gambling in Macau, laptop etc mean little - to some. Each to his own I say. As you have said, no one in their right mind comes to Samui to make millions, but as jamesbrock also says, making enough to get by, (or not piss it all away), is equally relevant if it makes you happy.

I think we would all agree that to lose everything through ignorance, arrogance, naiivety, or whatever you may want to call it, is sad. Because that most definately will make you UNhappy.

[insertmembernamehere]

Okay, you got me on that. The sadhus in India ("Beggars with an excuse," as I always called them) have made it, as an example. My friend who wakes up next to a snake every morning and wonders what he is going to do to make the bill payments next week and says when you tip him 200 baht, "Oh! I can buy milk tomorrow," and he's not kidding, who lives up top the shop near the beach and gets all that nice fresh air, has made it.

This isn't Epistemological Dualism, but it's close. There's no debating this issue; some see the beauty in a 1000 baht note in the amazing detail and complexity of the engraver's work. Others, well, they see it as money. Both are true in an abstract sense and a real sense, but only one is true in the practical sense.

I can see the beauty of the bill and the value in worldly commercial terms at the same time. But I will never kid myself that the 1,000 baht note does not contain the power of money.

If I've lost you, the next paragraph is of no value to you; if you know what I mean, the next paragraph is superfluous....and so it is absent.

Edited for grammar bluffo...

Edited April 6, 2012 by insertmembernamehere