Price Increase For Bts Extention

[Dubarry]

Just found out that I have to pay 75% more for travell on the BTS. I arrived at Bang Chak station to-night only to have to queue for half an hour to. pay 15baht extra. Then I had to queue for another hour to buy a rabbitt card which cost 1000baht for 50 trips but I had to put cash on the card to cover the extra 15baht charge for the extension. So for the 50 trips I am now paying 1750baht an increase of 750baht or 75%. I know the cost of living is going up but this seems to be a bit excessive for 1 more stop. Seeing that there was hugh delays to-night which is a bank holiday to-morrow should be interesting.............

[David48]

Queuing for a total of 1 and 1/2 hours ... are you sure that you are not underestimating the time taken?

[Dubarry]

No only one an a half hours but only about 12 people in front of me. As I say to-morrow should be chaotic as its a work day.

[w11guy]

You said you paid 1,000 baht for 50 trips, so not sure what the 1,750 baht is all about.

[welo]

As far as I understand the problem is that the 30-day pass rides are only valid until On Nut. From there on one has to pay 15 Baht extra (flat rate).

Awesome. Great job!

Example: Let's say I go from Bang Chak to Thong Lor: this now costs me 1 ride (from the 30-day pass) plus 15 Baht. One ride with the 30-day pass costs between 20 and 25 Baht (50..15 trips).

In my case (15 rides @ 25 Baht) the total costs are 40 Baht. The standard fare (cash ticket) is 35 Baht.

Also, for students this will dramatically increase travel costs on the bts if they want to go further than On Nut. Until yesterday, they paid 18 Baht flat with the student 30-day pass. Now they will pay 18 + 15 Baht = 33 Baht (Assuming that the student 30-day pass is only valid until/from On Nut).

Awesome. Great job!

[Nisa]

BTS to introduce a new pass this month

BANGKOK, 20 April 2012 (NNT) – The Bangkok Mass Transit System Public Co (BTS) is introducing a “Rabbit Pass” to current holders of BTS 30-Day Smart Pass to use on the newly extended On Nut-Bearing section on the Sukhumvit Line.

Surapong Laoha-Unya, Executive Director of BTS Group, said a new flat-rate fee of 15 baht for the extension from On Nut to Bearing stations will not be applied to passengers holding a 30-day smart pass. A new pass titled “Rabbit Pass” will replace the old one, and holders of valid smart passes can obtain the new pass free of charge at all BTS ticket offices by presenting staff with the old 30-day pass, starting from April 23 to December 31 this year.

Rabbit Pass cards may be refilled with trips, in accordance with promotions specified by the Company.

Mr Surapong said the company is planning to discontinue the distribution of the 30-day Smart Pass and start selling the Rabbit Pass to BTS passengers on April 23.

He added that the price of the 1-day travel card will also be adjusted from 120 baht to 130 baht, commencing on May 1.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255504200012

[nycboy57]

I would love it if they finally add a car or two on their three car trains since they are so crowded.

As for the Increase in fares, what could anyone say, who wants to pay any increase when it is so uncomfortable riding in them?

[WhizBang]

http://www.rabbitcard.com/

[WhizBang]

I would love it if they finally add a car or two on their three car trains since they are so crowded.

I have seen a 4 car train on the Sukhumvit line... but only once, so far.

As for the Increase in fares, what could anyone say, who wants to pay any increase when it is so uncomfortable riding in them?

You would rather take a taxi?

[nycboy57]

If I had the time to deal with the Traffic I would take a taxi.

Again I would prefer at least 4 cars on that line, since it is way over crowded. Taxis is another topic I would think.

Train fares going up and no room on the trains is something that people can ask for.

Will we ever see it, who knows.

In any case thanks for your thoughts.

[balo]

So how much do I have to pay going from Udomsok BTS to Phrom Phong ? Is it cheaper to just pay for a ticket or is it cheaper to buy a rabbit card ?

Before with a 30 day pass I paid 22 baht .

Edited May 1, 2012 by balo

[Ijustwannateach]

If my reading of the small print above about the Rabbit Card is right, on the new passes it works the common sense way- a trip is a trip is a trip. So get the Rabbit card and it works the way it it would before if you were going all the way down the line (I think).

[David48]

I would love it if they finally add a car or two on their three car trains since they are so crowded.

As for the Increase in fares, what could anyone say, who wants to pay any increase when it is so uncomfortable riding in them?

nycboy57 ... have a look at this earlier tread about the BTS system ... longer-trains-desperately-needed-on-the-bts-sukhumvit-line

http://www.thaivisa....ne/page__st__25

I started at the second page because that is when the rail/train guys start with their analysis.

[jybkk]

If my reading of the small print above about the Rabbit Card is right, on the new passes it works the common sense way- a trip is a trip is a trip. So get the Rabbit card and it works the way it it would before if you were going all the way down the line (I think).

I read otherwise: http://www.bts.co.th/Stop_SmartPass_Rabbit.html

Almost all the way at the bottom, #

"30 day - NB: not applicable on the Sukhumvit Line extension"

In other word, the rabbit card is pretty much a way to mask the fact that commuters on the extension have to pay 15THB extra per trip if they want to use a trip-based pass, the card allowing to store trips AND money so that you can pay at once for the extra 15THB.

In the end, most of those who commute from the extension will switch to the stored value system, as it is likely to be slighty cheaper in most cases, while those living in the more central areas will continue with the trip system, occasionaly forking the 15THB extra when they go further than On Nut (hoping that they didn't forget to put a few THB of cash on the card).

The worst is for those travelling daily from the extension to a station more than 6-7 stops away. They'll have to pay about 15THB more per trip. There are so many combinations possible, it's pretty difficult to make sure you'll go for the cheapest option when you refill your card, unless you use the BTS exculisevly for your daily commute.

The "e-wallet" to pay at McDonald's and Starbucks sounds more like a marketing gimmick.

[dddave]

After just completing an extended trip to 6 major cities in the USA including Boston, New York City, San Francisco and Chicago, I have a much greater appreciation of the BTS. Yes; it has it flaws and annoyances but overall, it is far and away better than anything I rode on in the richest nation on Earth. Fares for even the shortest rides on US subways exceed the equivalent of B80, often approaching B150-200. Schedules seem non-existant and intervals can be 20 minutes to more than 1/2 hour. To say the trains in most cities are dirty and overcrowded is an understatement, riding them is definitely not a pleasant experience. One rarely has to wait more than 5 minutes for a BTS train, a frequency and consistency unmatched by any US system I rode. Trains are invariably clean as are the stations, not the dungeon-like and surprisingly poorly signed caverns in the cities I visited.

One oft repeated complaint on this forum is the perceived rude behavior of Thais on the BTS/MRT. Compared to the downright angry and totally selfish pushing and seat hoarding (one person taking two with bags or body) I witnessed on a regular basis in the US, the Thais are mere pussycats. There is not infrequently a real feeling of threat and danger in US subways. Long, challenging stares and other hostile actions makes one very careful about who you look at; heads stay down, universally buried in cell phone displays. I have to say that I heard less English spoken there on public transport than in Bangkok, you don't see many suits and frilly dresses.

I'll take the BTS/MRT over US urban transportation any day!

[brewsterbudgen]

I would love it if they finally add a car or two on their three car trains since they are so crowded.

I have seen a 4 car train on the Sukhumvit line... but only once, so far.

As for the Increase in fares, what could anyone say, who wants to pay any increase when it is so uncomfortable riding in them?

You would rather take a taxi?

The only time they seem to run the 4-car trains on the Sukhumvit line is on Sundays (when there's the least requirement).

[jonclark]

The wider problem is this - The BTS is meant to be a mass transport system, unfortunately these price increases take that concept further away from the masses, as it cost 55 baht per person each way from Bearing to Siam, (for example) Is that affordable means of transport for the average person. A return trip for an average family would costs more than the daily minimum wage. Or to put in other words for those of us that earn more than the minimum wage. Would you forgo a days salary to take the BTS? No none of us would. So if not how is this a mass transport system fit for the 21st century?

[WhizBang]

If I had the time to deal with the Traffic I would take a taxi.

Again I would prefer at least 4 cars on that line, since it is way over crowded. Taxis is another topic I would think.

Train fares going up and no room on the trains is something that people can ask for.

Will we ever see it, who knows.

In any case thanks for your thoughts.

I totally agree that the BTS is very crowded now, and the need for additional cars is growing more and more each day. But, even as crowded as it is, I would still prefer it to taking a taxi, most of the time.

[WhizBang]

The only time they seem to run the 4-car trains on the Sukhumvit line is on Sundays (when there's the least requirement).

Yes, I think it was a Sunday I saw it. Guess they must be testing.

[David48]

The wider problem is this - The BTS is meant to be a mass transport system, unfortunately these price increases take that concept further away from the masses, as it cost 55 baht per person each way from Bearing to Siam, (for example) Is that affordable means of transport for the average person. A return trip for an average family would costs more than the daily minimum wage. Or to put in other words for those of us that earn more than the minimum wage. Would you forgo a days salary to take the BTS? No none of us would. So if not how is this a mass transport system fit for the 21st century?

jonclark ... well if you had a family and worked for the minimum wage you would take the 511 Bus and not the super fast, air-conditioned BTS from Bearing to (near) Siam.

Yes, the mass transport system is definitely fit for the 21st century.

How do you propose to lower the cost of the existing infrastructure?

Government subsidies, would lower the cost, but that would increase the expenses of the government ... hence the taxes (running a 'balanced budget') that ordinary Thai worker pays.

No Government subsidies ... when then the Private Sector simply won't build any more.

So it's the buses for the family and the BTS for the workers who can afford a little more in transportation costs.

What transport does jonclark take for this trip?

Edited May 2, 2012 by David48

[jonclark]

The wider problem is this - The BTS is meant to be a mass transport system, unfortunately these price increases take that concept further away from the masses, as it cost 55 baht per person each way from Bearing to Siam, (for example) Is that affordable means of transport for the average person. A return trip for an average family would costs more than the daily minimum wage. Or to put in other words for those of us that earn more than the minimum wage. Would you forgo a days salary to take the BTS? No none of us would. So if not how is this a mass transport system fit for the 21st century?

jonclark ... well if you had a family and worked for the minimum wage you would take the 511 Bus and not the super fast, air-conditioned BTS from Bearing to (near) Siam.

Yes, the mass transport system is definitely fit for the 21st century.

How do you propose to lower the cost of the existing infrastructure?

Government subsidies, would lower the cost, but that would increase the expenses of the government ... hence the taxes (running a 'balanced budget') that ordinary Thai worker pays.

No Government subsidies ... when then the Private Sector simply won't build any more.

So it's the buses for the family and the BTS for the workers who can afford a little more in transportation costs.

What transport does jonclark take for this trip?

I'd take my helicopter or bicycle depending on the weather

But my point is how can it be a mass transit system (emphasis the word mass) when its out of the price range of the vast majority of people? Of course we always pay for things that are faster, cooler etc and are free to make choices.

i just feel that a modern transit system in a major metropolitan area should accessible on a frequent basis by the vast majority of people who live there as opposed to being as opposed to something that is useable on a daily basis as a viable alternative to buses and taxis by a relatively small percentage of the population.

I'm not arsed about the economics

Edited May 2, 2012 by jonclark

[lomatopo]

If my reading of the small print above about the Rabbit Card is right, on the new passes it works the common sense way- a trip is a trip is a trip. So get the Rabbit card and it works the way it it would before if you were going all the way down the line (I think).

Unfortunately no. A "trip is a trip" only as far as On Nut. After that you have to add 15 baht, even if just going to Bang Chak.

So for an Adult, they kept the top tier of 20 baht/trip for On Nut - Mo Chit/Wong Wian Yai. If you commute to/from Bang Chak - Bearing it does represent a big increase. Of course it (On Nut - Bearing) was free for quite a long time.

But I haven't followed this issue, so I am confused as to why they didn't keep some distance/number of stations factor in the incremental charge; like + 5 baht for Bang Chak/Punnawithi, +10 baht for Udom Suk/Bang Na and +15 baht for Bearing?

[balo]

Ok I just switched my old pass to a rabbit card , and since I live near Udomsok , I had to fill up the card with minimum 100 baht to cover 15 baht charge starting from On Nut.

So it will be 55 baht for me to travel to Siam now, this is a big increase but people working in central Bangkok have no choice really. An aircon bus would be around 20 baht for the same distance, if you can avoid the rush hours maybe more people will travel by bus .

So BTS now to SIam 110 baht daily instead of 80 baht . If you work 5 days pr week that is 150 baht extra.or a monthly increase of 600 baht.

[meand]

I guess you just have to get used to stuff like this here. So, if I understand correctly, you'd pay ~20 baht to go from mo chit to on nut with the card, then pay 15 baht to go from on nut to punnawiti (one stop from on nut)? Why in the world dont they just raise the overall prices a tad? They are acting like the extension is a whole new system or something -- this is confusing and overly complicated. Anyway, it is their system to do what they want with.

Edited May 2, 2012 by meand

[brewsterbudgen]

I commute from Phra Khanong to Chitlom. This morning the train (at 8.20 am) was significantly less crowded than usual - usually I have to wait for 2-3 trains before I can squeeze on. I wonder if this is because of the price increase for those travelling on the previously free journey from stations before On Nut. Bad luck for them, but great news for the rest of us!

[planr]

The wider problem is this - The BTS is meant to be a mass transport system, unfortunately these price increases take that concept further away from the masses, as it cost 55 baht per person each way from Bearing to Siam, (for example) Is that affordable means of transport for the average person. A return trip for an average family would costs more than the daily minimum wage. Or to put in other words for those of us that earn more than the minimum wage. Would you forgo a days salary to take the BTS? No none of us would. So if not how is this a mass transport system fit for the 21st century?

First, everyone blaming the BTS for the fare increase (between On Nut and Bearing) is not looking in the right direction. The reason behind the difference in pricing is because the BMA (city government) funded the construction of the extension (whereas BTS built and paid for the original line) and needs to recoup its costs somehow. Thus blame the inefficiencies of government, both local and national for the convoluted fare structure.

Second, with regards to actual BTS fares, the recent increase was more or less the first system-wide increase in history. As I recall, initial fares were 15-40 baht and increased to 15-45 baht at some point in the last 5-6 years. The new fares (18-56 baht) would not be implemented if the BTS didn't think they would continue to make money. In reality, the only places you see "mass" rail transit by your definition (very affordable for most people, it seems), are places with exceedingly strong central governments, extremely large demand, and a large necessity, demand nothwithstanding... which means Singapore, HK, Mainland China etc... last I checked a one-station trip on the Tube in London was about 4 quid.

So yeah, it sucks that fares have increased, but it still represents the best way to get around if your origin and destination are near the alignment. While it reeks of TV's typical hater attitude, if you live in Bangkok and you can't afford to ride the BTS now that fares have increased, you probably shouldn't be here in the first place. It's really not that expensive...

[kawaiimomo]

First, everyone blaming the BTS for the fare increase (between On Nut and Bearing) is not looking in the right direction. The reason behind the difference in pricing is because the BMA (city government) funded the construction of the extension (whereas BTS built and paid for the original line) and needs to recoup its costs somehow. Thus blame the inefficiencies of government, both local and national for the convoluted fare structure.

Second, with regards to actual BTS fares, the recent increase was more or less the first system-wide increase in history. As I recall, initial fares were 15-40 baht and increased to 15-45 baht at some point in the last 5-6 years. The new fares (18-56 baht) would not be implemented if the BTS didn't think they would continue to make money. In reality, the only places you see "mass" rail transit by your definition (very affordable for most people, it seems), are places with exceedingly strong central governments, extremely large demand, and a large necessity, demand nothwithstanding... which means Singapore, HK, Mainland China etc... last I checked a one-station trip on the Tube in London was about 4 quid.

So yeah, it sucks that fares have increased, but it still represents the best way to get around if your origin and destination are near the alignment. While it reeks of TV's typical hater attitude, if you live in Bangkok and you can't afford to ride the BTS now that fares have increased, you probably shouldn't be here in the first place. It's really not that expensive...

I come from Barcelona which is around 90% covered by subway and train, and the fares are ok for probably more than 90% of the people living and working there (and even for the 23% of unemployed people :-P) And the buses fare is almost the same, so no real difference.

To my understanding this is a very needed infrastructure and the government MUST subsidize it even if that means losses, after all that's why you pay taxes.

Here is quite different because the vast majority of people don't pay taxes, and because of the taxes are pocketed by many. Anyway, the people with the minimum wage they are f#%$ed if they travel by bts or not; so they will take the shitty non aircon bus and wake up 3 or more hours daily, this is a shame. But as I said, I believe paying taxes is not going to make this different because the money will end in someone's pocket :-(

I love the MRT and BTS but I found it very crowded at peak times (hopefully the new cars will arrive soon), and I am waiting for the day some new lines will be actually built. It is a shame them being designed and still no company building them, guess they contractors are waiting for their tea money before giving the project to some company...

[w11guy]

If the BTS is as overcrowded as some of you claim, it would be stupid to reduce prices, as that would make them even more overcrowded. The system doesn't have the capacity to transport everyone around the city. Public transportation is still in it's early days here, so don't expect too much to soon. Thailand is still a developing country, so stop expecting it to be like a developed country overnight. Things are improving and I'm sure they could improve more quickly, but even developed countries took decades to build their infrastructure. Thailand is very different from US, UK, etc, so don't keep expecting it to be just like home. If home is so great, what are you doing here.

If 55 baht is too expensive for you then you need to move to a poorer, less developed country.

[randytimm]

1 question

let say i buy a 15 trips for 375 bth and add 200 bth cash in the rabbit card

after 30 days the 15 trips expiry and if i didnt use up the 200 bth cash in the card does

the money still is stored in the card for further use or expiry after the 30days time period?

Edited May 2, 2012 by randytimm

[meand]

I have absolutely no problem with a fare increase, in fact, I welcome it as it seems peak hours are already showing less crowds. It is just the lack of an efficient and logical pricing scheme that is the trouble. Surely, if the bts is a project you have planned and executed (as successful as it is), you should be able to come up with a pricing scheme that is raised overall across the boards, and both investors (BMA & BTS) would get an agreed upon fair share of the pie, whatever that may be would be up to them. In essence, charging somebody more for a smart pass makes perfect sense, as its "power" has been extended to bearing.

Charging people separately for the extension makes no sense under the single "BTS" banner. Let's use a simple analogy... if you buy a hamburger, can't these guys come up with a way for us to pay for that burger, and divide the funds accordingly (answer = no)? What they want, is a guy to come out and collect for the bun, another guy comes and charges for the patty, another guy comes out and bills you for the tomatoes.

Anyway, I understand the point(s) here, I just disagree is all. I just don't think this is the best way to run a "business".