Canadian Sisters Died Of 'Food Poisoning' In Thailand Hotel

[w11guy]

very odd to me... they love so much listening on doors and peaking through cracks and gaps, they really wish to do it all day, and if there was any chance they would just look into your s.hole...

but when two people are dieing in their room for a couple of days, nobody notices it...

truly pathetic post. I've never seen Thai people listening to peaking through cracks at people in hotels. What is you problem?

[w11guy]

Any wonder why crime or murder rates, particularly for foreigners, are so skewed. People hanging themselves in odd bizarre positions, all the jumpers who by all reports seemed happy and left no notes, cases like th is and then all of those unresolved crimes.

Cover ups like this are criminal, but it keeps the crime stats down.

These girls were murdered and the murder is still walking around and will undoubtedly strike again. Maybe this psychopath is a BIB or someone who manipulate the investigation.

They should be saying toxicology shows no signs of pathogens or toxins other than botulism, camplobactor or etc. You dint have to guess in good poisoning. You can identify bacterium through cultures/pathology.

It's a fact that many people who have decided to commit suicide do indeed seem happy, because they are at peace with themselves because they know the end is near. To suggest that all the suicides from tall building are something else is just ridiculous. What are you suggesting, that there is a serial killer who goes around throwing farangs out of tall buildings?

Many people, including you, just don't want to believe the truth. Many farangs here are very stupid and live a dangerous life with no care for their own life. So it's no surprise that many die. Not saying this about these two girls, but about the general situation. Yes, farangs jump out of buildings and kill themselves. They may seem happy but they're not. Just accept it. If you have proof to the contrary then just show it instead of making baseless accusations.

[smedly]

I honestly think the investigation is no further along than it was yesterday, I believe this new headline is the result of some higher interfearence to take the heat off, "poisoning" and "Food Poisoning" have very different implications in a headline, the original headline has been replaced and in my opinion for no new discovery in the investigation.

[EyesWideOpen]

The cover up begins.... how pathetic. The only way to clearly bring this to a conclusion is a foreign forensic expert examination of the body. I seriously doubt this will occur.....

This must also represent a bit of a dilemma for the Thai government.

Choice 1. A maniac is running around poisoning tourists

Choice 2. Thai restaurant food is so poorly cared for you eat it and then die the next day.

Decisions decisions..

[kjhbigv]

Food poisoning?

This sounds like an exact repeat of the Chiang Mai fiasco, exactly the same response as then......surely, if food poisoning, others would have been affected?

"It would be interesting to know if the lady who did the review on Agoda complained to the hotel Her review was dated 6 june. Maybe the beds had been treated and some people are still using very toxic pesticides to get rid of bedbug infestations."

Surely, one of the first questions, would be "has the room been sprayed recently?' and take some samples from the room for analysis, just to rule out this possibility?

Food poisoning....not sure I buy it!

[Thailand]

"They had eaten meals outside the hotel," he said. "

Exonerate the hotel before the actual cause of death is really known?

RIP girls.

[bangkokrick]

"They had eaten meals outside the hotel," he said. "

Exonerate the hotel before the actual cause of death is really known?

RIP girls.

A little bit of an investigation into which restaurant they ate at might go a long way to solving this case. The place is not that big, so somebody must surely have seen them out and about. If they can locate the restaurant they can then investigate the cause of the problem or eliminate the food poisoning theory.

Not really rocket science is it?

RIP to the girls.

[sunshine51]

Please read my post (#251) in the previous thread about this tragedy. It may not be the answer

but I believe it may answer some questions. Cover up...let's not be too hasty eh people.

R. I. P. ladies. Condolences to the family.

It's a shame the old thread was closed. This latest article should have just been added to it, rather than become the basis for the new and sole thread on this tragic affair.

I hope this doesn't get me banned or shut out but here is my original post on the original thread

about this tragedy along with Yunla's post that got me going....apologies to whoever or whatever

is needed I give....My original post is below...

View PostYunla, on Today, 07:47 , said:

RIP.

Drinking pesticide is supposedly the most common suicide in poor rural areas of China and possibly Thailand. There was an article a few years ago in Thailand about increasing numbers of young poor people drinking Polydol here to commit suicide.

Thailand has an extremely casual disregard for neurotoxic pesticide chemicals, they are cheap to buy, easy to obtain, and the regulations are never enforced. Many pesticides available in Thailand and handled by teenagers here, are banned in the west. Symptoms of these legal farming and home-control toxins do fit the girls' death symptoms, if they were poisoned by administering of neat pesticide.

Even walking through a cloud of powerful neurotoxic spray by accident will give you many symptoms including nausea, skin lesions including gums, breathing difficulties etc.etc. and of course lung cancer eventually. Drinking it will be far stronger effect and instant. Obviously murder by poisoning happens in every country on Earth, is used by aristocrats and royalty worldwide through the ages, and so is not a Thai problem. I think the availability and use of pesticides in Thailand needed regulation and enforcement several decades ago and more so now.

Logically if teenagers here commit suicide by drinking pesticide, then theres no reason for killers to not use it in their crimes too. Addressing the root problems of poverty in society and regulating the availability of these poisons will certainly improve the situation in my view.

Previous by Yunla.

Below by Me...Sunshine51.

Warfarin...rat poison...is also used in hospitals as an anticoagulant to prevent various forms

of thrombosis. Just Google Warfarin and look at the Wiki page.

Many types of highly lethal (to humans) pesticides are easily obtained here in Thailand; even

at your common "hardware store" with zero regulations set forth for purchase...ie...ID card

particulars recorded etc. Examples...Paraquat...banned world wide plus Endosulfan also

banned worldwide are easily obtainable in LOS....by anybody.

Arsenic poisoning is cumulative in humans and animals. Meaning that if the dose was high

enough to kill a human (set by body weight), the human would easily detect a strange metallic

taste in their mouth and most likely spit out what they had in said mouth. This holds true even

in spicy foods such as Somtam. The best laid arsenic poisonings occur over long periods of time

...many months....so the taste will be virtually undetected. That's why it is so crucial water tables

do not get polluted by various mineral mines...such as a local gold mine where arsenic is used to

"float" the gold.

Strychnine poisoning produces horrific convulsions prior to death and also leads to blue nails

and gum bleeds. It's easy to get in LOS too for rat & other vermin control although better stuff

is available.

Cyanide (sodium or potassium) is also fairly easy to get if one knows a "brand name" and these

are used for pest control also.

I'm not going to list a bunch more lethal substances in this post about these two departed girls as

it serves no purpose. However what we appear to have is an "easy way out" syndrom here in LOS

that is begat by lack of knowledge and money. In other words one kills mosquitoes by going to the

store and buying their favourite mossie spray. The same applies for killing rats, cats and other vermin.

Think about this...when was the last time you ever saw a Rent-O-Kill or other "pest control" agency

truck pull into a hotel's parking lot, shopping mall, mates home etc. Here in LOS it's easier to get your

local lad with the know how to head to the hardware store and buy what's needed to kill the lil beasties.

What that local lad buddy may not know is that in many cases somebody with the "knowledge" of how

to clean up not only the dead beasties but the poisons remaining after the spray or placement and

beasties killed is lacking in his or her mind set. Then again some local lads will do their best to try and

tell you you must be very careful when you do clean your place yourself!

This incident is tragic and will undoubtedly be another negative factor on the tourist industry for LOS.

To help solve the problem, poverty eradication will be of great value and along with that the issuance

of proper licenses for poisons handlers of all kinds along with proper training. Not to mention proper

poison control to get the stuff outta hardware stores and everybody's hands.

I'm not a chemist, I'm not a doctor, I'm just a farang who has lived in this part of the world for over 40

years who knows a few things about a few things and is not shy to learn new things.

SS51

[Deaw]

what is this nonsense about suicide above???

and I believe we have no worries about the family reading a forum like this, they are kinda busy right now with travel arrangements and surely have more on their mind than a website with a bunch of cackling old ladies spouting nonsensical suicide theories and about maids peaking through hotel room doors day and night.

Finally made the Canadian newspapers, at least the Gazette de Montreal;

http://www.montrealgazette.com/travel/brilliant+young+girls/6793937/story.html

The older girl just graduated with a degree in Psychology.....the 20-year old surely seemed equally bright and good-natured.......this quote sums it all up for me;

"I don’t understand if they were sick why they didn’t ask for help. They are girls who know how to look after themselves, they can speak French and English"

If it were food poisoning and their stomachs were aching, at least one of them would have had the sense to go and speak with a hotel clerk or a local clinic.....and would have gotten some treatment. to just get food poisoning, lie in your bed and then DIE that quickly? Never heard of something like that before [except in Thailand of course]..

Someone needs to get their bodies to Montreal ASAP and have a proper autopsy done, the truth is at risk every day they remain in Thailand.

[Stokakrishna]

every time farang dies in this country it is either a suicide or food poisoning

[Yunla]

There is no reason for a young otherwise healthy person with food poisoning to lay on the floor vomiting (in several places around the room) and not make it to the door for help. Crawling to the door while vomiting and opening it and screaming are all possible and easy to do with e-coli and viral-gastroenteritis, both of which I have had. I also have epilepsy and can confirm it is possible to have food poisoning and convulsive seizures at the same time and still crawl across the floor and open hotel door while laying on the floor. I did this in Laos hotel and got maid in the hallway call for an ambulance. This tragic story only makes sense to me if the girls have either been intentionally or accidentally poisoned by a strong toxic chemical, or were afraid to contact the hotel staff for some reason, or have taken some extremely toxic soporific drug at a bar/club, a drug that later stopped them calling for help and moving limbs. This food poisoning statement is not true, even deadly fungus and toxic fish would allow the person to crawl and shout for help for a certain amount of time.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Yunla

[kjhbigv]

The original response to the CM event......

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/440953-new-zealand-girl-dies-of-food-poisoning-in-chiang-mai/page__hl__%20australian%20%20girl%20%20dies

[cardholder]

And this result is based on autopsy of the victims ?.......WOW BIB at their best....

BiB still 'probing'.

[Unkomoncents]

Exhibit A as to why one cannot trust anything anyone says, EVER, or any statistics regarding murder rates in Thailand. This is unbelievably suspicious and it's something those who want to visit Thailand should know before they come. These kinds of things seem to happen constantly. Death under suspicious circumstances = suicide, food poisoning in the Land of (disingenuous) Smiles. The fact that the police believe people are stupid enough to buy their horsesh*t is even more amazing. They are so audacious.

These kinds of stories are also a window into the local Thai concept of justice. The Bangkok Post just featured a story with a statement from the Thai acid thrower who injured more than two dozen people. The man said that, as a garbage collector, people generally didn't show him respect so he threw caustic acid on random people in Bangkok. Amazingly, there seems to be some sympathy from the public. Unbelievable. And people sometimes wonder why Thailand is still a third-world country while countries such as South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan have endured war and hardships far beyond those imposed on Thailand and have, in the same timeframe, built themselves into regional powerhouses.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Unkomoncents

[lannarebirth]

And this result is based on autopsy of the victims ?.......WOW BIB at their best....

BiB still 'probing'.

They seem to have already probed one hotel owner's pocket. More to follow I'm sure.

[sportsman69]

The cover up begins.... how pathetic. The only way to clearly bring this to a conclusion is a foreign forensic expert examination of the body. I seriously doubt this will occur.....

This must also represent a bit of a dilemma for the Thai government.

Choice 1. A maniac is running around poisoning tourists

Choice 2. Thai restaurant food is so poorly cared for you eat it and then die the next day.

Decisions decisions..

Talking to my wife who's Thai, says " no dilemma, the Thai Government couldnt care less "

which just about sums it up about this case and others .

In what is regarded as a real country the scene would be sealed off and guarded. The next of kin notified. A investigating forensics team, sent from the capital if necessary, would examine the scene in minute detail and remove the bodies to a secure location for autopsies. No press reports would be made until certain facts were known.

I would assume none of that has happened in this case. The poor parents probably got the news by reading their own newspaper at home in Montreal. My wife's right on this one not a care nor any compassion.

Edited June 17, 2012 by sportsman69

[MCR2k1]

Chlorine gas leak from the nearby water treatment plant possible the 2009 deaths?

http://www.jotadventure.com/2009/05/unexplained-tourist-deaths-on-koh-phi.htmlt

[churchill]

'"Forensic officials found vomit in the room, blood on their lips and gums and their fingernails and toenails were blue," lieutenant colonel Rat Somboon of Krabi Provincial Police said, adding there were "signs of serious food poisoning."

"They died more than 12 hours before being found. They had eaten meals outside the hotel," he said.'

If it is suspected food poisoning .. have the local restaurants been ordered to be closed until the source is found . Or that cause is eliminated .. Are they advising other tourists in this area what is safe to eat and what should be avoided ..

I hope they do not rely on the local or Krabi police ..

Sorry for the poor girls ... sounds terrible . RIP

see also http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160418/Canadian-sisters-Audrey-Noemi-Belanger-dead-Thai-hotel-room-suspected-poisoning.html

Edited June 17, 2012 by churchill

[stevenl]

All the needless speculation, coverup theories and other cynical nonsense here on this and the previous thread make me so very sad for the people here on TV.

[Deserted]

Sounds like its come from an initial prognosis and not a toxicology report, as they take days or weeks to materialize. Food poisoning seems unlikely. The reaction is too sudden and strong. There could be dangerous insecticide in the room, as was the case with the DownTown Inn, Chiang Mai.

[Beetlejuice]

It´s makes you want to cry. So sad, so sad.

Same here.

It makes me think about my own kids.

Heartbreaking for sure.

[Yunla]

All the needless speculation, coverup theories and other cynical nonsense here on this and the previous thread make me so very sad for the people here on TV.

To be fair, the OP describing two healthy ladies in their 20s, saying their deaths in a public place (hotel) as 'food poisoning' is far more "cynical nonsense" than posters obvious baffled amazed responses to this statement.

Even if the two ladies had tetrodotoxin poisoning from fugu, they would have got severe physical symptoms within 5-30 minutes (during the meal) and not made it back to the hotel unnoticed. Nothing about the 'food poisoning' statement makes sense.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Yunla

[EyesWideOpen]

All the needless speculation, coverup theories and other cynical nonsense here on this and the previous thread make me so very sad for the people here on TV.

Time will show that either the posters on TV are a sad lot , or possess astute powers of deduction......

[Soutpeel]

Sounds like its come from an initial prognosis and not a toxicology report, as they take days or weeks to materialize. Food poisoning seems unlikely. The reaction is too sudden and strong. There could be dangerous insecticide in the room, as was the case with the DownTown Inn, Chiang Mai.

Not to want to get on the conspiracy bandwagon....but do the local fishermen do cyanide fishing ? as pretty certain this is not food posioning per se....but definte toxic compound

[PoorSucker]

Even if the two ladies had tetrodotoxin poisoning from fugu, they would have got severe physical symptoms within 5-30 minutes (during the meal) and not made it back to the hotel unnoticed. Nothing about the 'food poisoning' statement makes sense.

What are the symptoms of pufferfish poisoning?

Symptoms generally appear between 20 minutes and three hours after eating the poisonous pufferfish. The following are the most common symptoms of pufferfish poisoning. However, each individual may experience symptoms differently. Symptoms may include:

Numbness of lips and tongue

Numbness of face and extremities

Sensations of lightness or floatingHeadache

Nausea and vomiting

Abdominal pain

Diarrhea

Slurred speech

Difficulty walking

Extensive muscle weakness

Convulsions

Respiratory distress

Mental impairment

Cardiac arrhythmia

Death can occur within four to six hours of poisoning, so it is essential to seek immediate medical attention.

Source: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/adult/travel_medicine/fish_poisoning_85,P01434/

Thailand

Pufferfish, called pakpao in Thailand, are usually consumed by mistake. They are often cheaper than other fish, and because they contain inconsistent levels of toxins between fish and season, there is little awareness or monitoring of the danger. Consumers are regularly hospitalized and some even die from the poisoning.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraodontidae

Edited June 17, 2012 by PoorSucker

[lannarebirth]

All the needless speculation, coverup theories and other cynical nonsense here on this and the previous thread make me so very sad for the people here on TV.

Time will show that either the posters on TV are a sad lot , or possess astute powers of deduction......

It's pretty well known that any search of these types of events in Thailand will come up with a ThaiVisa thread on the matter. Aside from a few inappropriate comments some idiots make I like to think for distraught relatives with no clue as to what has happened these threads can sometimes be of service. If they take nothing onboard other than DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING THE THAI AUTHORITIES TELL YOU AT FACE VALUE then the thread will have served some purpose.

[coma]

Please read my post (#251) in the previous thread about this tragedy. It may not be the answer

but I believe it may answer some questions. Cover up...let's not be too hasty eh people.

R. I. P. ladies. Condolences to the family.

It's a shame the old thread was closed. This latest article should have just been added to it, rather than become the basis for the new and sole thread on this tragic affair.

I hope this doesn't get me banned or shut out but here is my original post on the original thread

about this tragedy along with Yunla's post that got me going....apologies to whoever or whatever

is needed I give....My original post is below...

View PostYunla, on Today, 07:47 , said:

RIP.

Drinking pesticide is supposedly the most common suicide in poor rural areas of China and possibly Thailand. There was an article a few years ago in Thailand about increasing numbers of young poor people drinking Polydol here to commit suicide.

Thailand has an extremely casual disregard for neurotoxic pesticide chemicals, they are cheap to buy, easy to obtain, and the regulations are never enforced. Many pesticides available in Thailand and handled by teenagers here, are banned in the west. Symptoms of these legal farming and home-control toxins do fit the girls' death symptoms, if they were poisoned by administering of neat pesticide.

Even walking through a cloud of powerful neurotoxic spray by accident will give you many symptoms including nausea, skin lesions including gums, breathing difficulties etc.etc. and of course lung cancer eventually. Drinking it will be far stronger effect and instant. Obviously murder by poisoning happens in every country on Earth, is used by aristocrats and royalty worldwide through the ages, and so is not a Thai problem. I think the availability and use of pesticides in Thailand needed regulation and enforcement several decades ago and more so now.

Logically if teenagers here commit suicide by drinking pesticide, then theres no reason for killers to not use it in their crimes too. Addressing the root problems of poverty in society and regulating the availability of these poisons will certainly improve the situation in my view.

Previous by Yunla.

Below by Me...Sunshine51.

Warfarin...rat poison...is also used in hospitals as an anticoagulant to prevent various forms

of thrombosis. Just Google Warfarin and look at the Wiki page.

Many types of highly lethal (to humans) pesticides are easily obtained here in Thailand; even

at your common "hardware store" with zero regulations set forth for purchase...ie...ID card

particulars recorded etc. Examples...Paraquat...banned world wide plus Endosulfan also

banned worldwide are easily obtainable in LOS....by anybody.

Arsenic poisoning is cumulative in humans and animals. Meaning that if the dose was high

enough to kill a human (set by body weight), the human would easily detect a strange metallic

taste in their mouth and most likely spit out what they had in said mouth. This holds true even

in spicy foods such as Somtam. The best laid arsenic poisonings occur over long periods of time

...many months....so the taste will be virtually undetected. That's why it is so crucial water tables

do not get polluted by various mineral mines...such as a local gold mine where arsenic is used to

"float" the gold.

Strychnine poisoning produces horrific convulsions prior to death and also leads to blue nails

and gum bleeds. It's easy to get in LOS too for rat & other vermin control although better stuff

is available.

Cyanide (sodium or potassium) is also fairly easy to get if one knows a "brand name" and these

are used for pest control also.

I'm not going to list a bunch more lethal substances in this post about these two departed girls as

it serves no purpose. However what we appear to have is an "easy way out" syndrom here in LOS

that is begat by lack of knowledge and money. In other words one kills mosquitoes by going to the

store and buying their favourite mossie spray. The same applies for killing rats, cats and other vermin.

Think about this...when was the last time you ever saw a Rent-O-Kill or other "pest control" agency

truck pull into a hotel's parking lot, shopping mall, mates home etc. Here in LOS it's easier to get your

local lad with the know how to head to the hardware store and buy what's needed to kill the lil beasties.

What that local lad buddy may not know is that in many cases somebody with the "knowledge" of how

to clean up not only the dead beasties but the poisons remaining after the spray or placement and

beasties killed is lacking in his or her mind set. Then again some local lads will do their best to try and

tell you you must be very careful when you do clean your place yourself!

This incident is tragic and will undoubtedly be another negative factor on the tourist industry for LOS.

To help solve the problem, poverty eradication will be of great value and along with that the issuance

of proper licenses for poisons handlers of all kinds along with proper training. Not to mention proper

poison control to get the stuff outta hardware stores and everybody's hands.

I'm not a chemist, I'm not a doctor, I'm just a farang who has lived in this part of the world for over 40

years who knows a few things about a few things and is not shy to learn new things.

SS51

If you are suggesting that the girls comitted suicide by consuming poison then one would think there would be evidence; empty containers etc etc in the room. Fail!

[stevenl]

All the needless speculation, coverup theories and other cynical nonsense here on this and the previous thread make me so very sad for the people here on TV.

Time will show that either the posters on TV are a sad lot , or possess astute powers of deduction......

No, because even if the result were to be e.g. pufferfish poisoning they would never accept that and stick to all kinds of other theories.

[Postmaster]

Gas ???

[Yunla]

All the needless speculation, coverup theories and other cynical nonsense here on this and the previous thread make me so very sad for the people here on TV.

Time will show that either the posters on TV are a sad lot , or possess astute powers of deduction......

It's pretty well known that any search of these types of events in Thailand will come up with a ThaiVisa thread on the matter. Aside from a few inappropriate comments some idiots make I like to think for distraught relatives with no clue as to what has happened these threads can sometimes be of service. If they take nothing onboard other than DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING THE THAI AUTHORITIES TELL YOU AT FACE VALUE then the thread will have served some purpose.

It is not disrespectful to victims in a given news story, to ask questions of the official story being presented by the authorities.

That is actually your duty as reader, to question it and analyze it. It is a mark of respect to those who have died and who can no longer speak on their own behalf. See also victims of terrorism etc, it is not disrespectful to the memories of the deceased to question the official story. Especially if the story bears no scientific weight, like this story.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Yunla