Thai Police Hunt For Portuguese Men In Phi-Phi Island Hotel Death Case

[mommysboy]

May 6, 2009 8:22 AM

Posts: 1

. 11

my name is Ryan, I was Jill's fiancee. We were staying at a guesthouse called **********. I have to think that Jill died of a poison substance. We got our room about 11 in the morning. It was our first room with A/C in about a month of traveling through Asia. So we decided to just hang out in the room all day and catch up on some needed sleep. I am not a great sleeper, Jill on the other hand was awesome she could sleep anytime, anywhere. Aroun 1 o clock I was antsy so I went to go use the internet. I was gone about an hour. I went back to the room hung out with Jill for about an hour. We were both hungry so I decided I would go get us some food, so we could enjoy the A/C. I was gone about 45 minutes. I came beack we ate our food and hung out for another hour or 2. We then decided to go out walking around. Jill started saying she wasnt feeling that well (probably the burger) but being the trooper she was, we stayed out for a few hours. Ate some dinner , watched the sunset. Around midnight Jill said she was still feeling ill. She wanted to go lie down, but told me to stay out for a bit, cause we were hanging out with some new friends. I went back to the room at about 2 am, to find jill in some real pain. She started vomiting not too long after. I layed down in bed with her to try to comfort her. Probably 2 hours later, I started feelin very ill. I started vomiting. feeling dizzy. This is when I realized Jill was not doing well at all. She started turning blue. I ran outside grabbed a utility cart, briught it back, picked Jill up and put her in it. I ran all the way to the hospital. They started doing CPR to no avail.

I found out later that there is a water treatment plant right behind the guesthouse. I feel that jill was poisoned by a chemical from that plant. She spent about 5 more hours in the room than I did. She was just breathing in the fumes for so long. The only reason I did not get deathly ill, is that I kept getting these short breaks from the air in the room.

The next day, a woman from Norway died right in the room next door, her traveling companion was admitted to the ICU. All thrree of them had the exact same symptoms. That seems like a hell of a coincidence. I just want people to know to be careful of the ********* guesthouse. Whatever is there it killed 2 people and put one in intensive care, in 2 days. That doesnt sound like food poisoning, and I doubt two A/C units started pumping in gas on the same day. There has to be something in the air from that water treatment plant..

[Nisa]

The experts from the department’s Bureau of Epidemiology on Tuesday looked into evidence and traces of hazardous substances at the hotel....

The experts have not yet concluded on what caused the deaths of the two sisters. But according to them, among possible causes of the death is the intake of arsenic or pesticide.

Read more:

Thai speeds up Canadian tourist death probe - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.m...##ixzz1yXmzCdNr

Edited June 22, 2012 by Nisa

[ttelise]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

I live in Destin/30a Florida and have a place on Pensacola Beach. This stretch, Pensacola to Panama City, is one of the most beautiful and busiest beachs in the US for vactioners. Being a lawyer here with three officers up and down this stretch of coast and knowing a lot of the local law enforcement guys, I generally hear about anything that relates to death or injury.

We occasionally see kids fall off balconies while trying to go from one to the next on high rises while intoxicated. We get the occasional drowning, usually rips tides. We get the car wrecks, but not death too often. There have been 2 fatalities by shark attack in the last ten years that I can recall. One out of town girl did get rapped and beat to death by a local 18 year old on drugs in a fairly wooded area off the beaten path. That was big news as as was a guy getting shot in a parking lot about 5 ro 10 years ago after mouthing off to someone.

I cannot think of any deaths by poisoning or unexplained deaths. I have never heard of people just mysteriously dropping dead in hotels (and God knows we have a lot of large hotels). Two sisters in their 20s turning up dead and a week later, no real explanation. Ridiculous. Stuff like that would be talk of the town and probably give this lazy fishy village something to talk about.

[balo]

If a stranger offer you yoghurt please do not eat it.

Poison is difficult to smell or taste in yoghurt,

[dingdang]

If a stranger offer you yoghurt please do not eat it.

Poison is difficult to smell or taste in yoghurt,

i thought he gave him yoghurt, because he could have said "it was food poisoning", when the guy wouldnt have (almost) died and got back to him...

it reminds me of phi phi...

its "food poisoning" until people die...

[Beetlejuice]

It is probable that the date rape drug, Rohypnol, was given to the girls on the evening very shortly before they’re deaths. This is what I have been told but I am not going to disclose my source, so don`t bother asking.

If the girls were taking some sorts of stimulant drugs such as ecstasy or magic mushrooms with a combination of alcohol and then unknowingly given Rohypnol, than the affects could have been deadly and would have experienced all the symptoms as described in the media reports.

Unaware girls receiving the date rape drug is more common than most people think and in the clubs of Pattaya and Phuket, most of these crimes go unreported or we never get to hear about them. Many of these rapes end up on video, uploaded onto sick websites and sometimes the girls have been oblivious that they have been raped, or cannot remember their abusers. There are those in the clubs that target these naive young female tourists staying alone in a hotel room somewhere, believing that will not get caught and sadly many do not.

These are dangerous times for kids and young people. Much more dangers around than in my young days. The problem is that drugs are so easily accessible these days, especially in the third world countries and the harsh penalties for those caught dealing drugs and dishing them out to young persons does not seem to be a deterrent. Sad times where many things now seem to go to the extremes.

However, keep tuned to this channel and the news media; the facts will be published soon.

[ttelise]

The experts from the department’s Bureau of Epidemiology on Tuesday looked into evidence and traces of hazardous substances at the hotel....

The experts have not yet concluded on what caused the deaths of the two sisters. But according to them, among possible causes of the death is the intake of arsenic or pesticide.

Read more:

Thai speeds up Canadian tourist death probe - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.m...##ixzz1yXmzCdNr

God, I hate to gloat. No I don't . . . Arsenic, Huh. Like how the guyinthailand (who I guess is still on a posting vacation) went ballistic on me telling me that Aresnic had been ruled out, could not possible the cause and that I was an a dumb ass for saying that Arsenic causes DIC or bleeding from gums, nose, eyes and vaginal area.

The Thai authorities would also now diligently look for those guys with the sisters if they had reason to suspect arsenic.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ttelise

[Nisa]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

While I'd like to side with you on this one Nisa, the statistic that more Brits die in Thailand every year than any other place in the world (aside from the UK obviously) makes it hard for me to do that. (Source.)

Don't get me wrong, I love this place like no other. It is a perilous place though where people seem to die in suspicious circumstances too regularly for it to be coincidental.

Maybe it just attracts the wrong type of person. For hedonists this place can be a death sentence.

My take on it.

Right in your link right next to what you are claiming it says ...

"Most of those deaths are of long-term elderly British residents," says a Foreign Office spokesman.

It also states more Brits get in trouble here than anywhere else and require consular assistance but the fact that you are missing is most of the deaths are actually from drinking Britts who do themselves in on motorbikes while not wearing helmets.

[ttelise]

It is probable that the date rape drug, Rohypnol, was given to the girls on the evening very shortly before they’re deaths. This is what I have been told but I am not going to disclose my source, so don`t bother asking.

If the girls were taking some sorts of stimulant drugs such as ecstasy or magic mushrooms with a combination of alcohol and then unknowingly given Rohypnol, than the affects could have been deadly and would have experienced all the symptoms as described in the media reports.

Unaware girls receiving the date rape drug is more common than most people think and in the clubs of Pattaya and Phuket, most of these crimes go unreported or we never get to hear about them. Many of these rapes end up on video, uploaded onto sick websites and sometimes the girls have been oblivious that they have been raped, or cannot remember their abusers. There are those in the clubs that target these naive young female tourists staying alone in a hotel room somewhere, believing that will not get caught and sadly many do not.

These are dangerous times for kids and young people. Much more dangers around than in my young days. The problem is that drugs are so easily accessible these days, especially in the third world countries and the harsh penalties for those caught dealing drugs and dishing them out to young persons does not seem to be a deterrent. Sad times where many things now seem to go to the extremes.

However, keep tuned to this channel and the news media; the facts will be published soon.

I doubt roofies. Adressed this a couple of days ago. Those are just benzos like Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, Valium and etc. Very familiar twith their effects and how quickly they kick in. Nothing about their condition of CCTV and the symptoms is consistent with Roofies or any Benzo. Not even close. They could have still taken benzos, but that would not have caused them to die in the manner in which they did.

They were also akimbo after death. This sounds as if they were having severe abdominal pain when passing out or dying. Some toxic event was occurring or very, very bad food poisoning.

[moskito]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

yes, everywhere people die, but

- a hospital full of "food poisonings" is NOT normal

- and 4 unexplained deaths on this island in a few years...?

no...

if there is a bacteria that makes so many people sick and kills some - then "ok" - but it has to be identified and a travel warning raised...

people could perhaps prepare with proper medication, avoid some foods or been tested before they travel - or stay away...

there seems a particular problem on phi phi.. too many deaths, too young people and too little explanation...

the virus/bacteria/source has to be identified...

2 unexplained deaths. Not 4. It is incredibly normal to not know a cause of death for a month after while autopsy and toxicology information is examined. A nurse at the hospital was quoted as saying they see cases of food poisoning each day. The hospital is not even a real hospital and is more a triage center with one doctor on duty. It is to treat minor ailments or stabilize people to be transported to a real hospital. They say the number of food poisoning cases they see is not unusual with most being treated right there. Up to 10,000 visitors visit the island each day with a good deal of them there to party and get a bit wild as well as not having built up local tolerances to everything from bacteria in food to the mosquito breed there.

Instead of being drama queens, why not wait until the facts are in and instead of putting on blinders, compare the island to any other party haven beach town and then consider the stage of development of that particular country. Sure, it is human nature to speculate and be curious but lets not pretend things have or have not happened based on personal emotions.

and instead of giving good tips to the audience, why not just READ and stick to the facts? ...AND it was not 2 unexplained deaths, it was THREE...or FIVE until now... Two years ago the two young girls and the norwegian lady a day later in the same guesthouse and now the two girls from Canada.... but OK, may be they lived in the same guesthouse before AND had the same food...or tablets...

[ManInSurat]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

While I'd like to side with you on this one Nisa, the statistic that more Brits die in Thailand every year than any other place in the world (aside from the UK obviously) makes it hard for me to do that. (Source.)

Don't get me wrong, I love this place like no other. It is a perilous place though where people seem to die in suspicious circumstances too regularly for it to be coincidental.

Maybe it just attracts the wrong type of person. For hedonists this place can be a death sentence.

My take on it.

Right in your link right next to what you are claiming it says ...

"Most of those deaths are of long-term elderly British residents," says a Foreign Office spokesman.

It also states more Brits get in trouble here than anywhere else and require consular assistance but the fact that you are missing is most of the deaths are actually from drinking Britts who do themselves in on motorbikes while not wearing helmets.

I do read my sources in full, before I use them, to fail to do so would be churlish.

"Most of those deaths are of long-term elderly British residents," says a Foreign Office spokesman. But not all of them.

and

"Some 224 Britons died in Thailand between April 2005 and March last year (2007) - a toll five times higher than in the second deadliest tourist destination, India."

Even the amount that remain after elderly retirees is so far ahead of the nearest country globally that to just wave this away would be shortsighted, and that's also not to say that the eldery retirees aren't the ones on the receiving end of a suspicious death. Interesting that you didn't think of that. Given that the average age of an expatriate here would be quite high.

Not to mention the fact that Thailand doesn't have the most Brit retirees on a global scale, there's lots of countries that have way more retired expatriate Brits. My own folks are in Spain and there's a massive community there. They're not dying at any alarming rate and Spain does not even get a mention on the FO's list.

Yes I did take RTAs into account. Yes it is high. Thailand (unofficially) has the 2nd most deaths and RTAs in the world. (Source available.)

I don't want to get into a debate about it really. It's a fact the Home Office can prove on paper. It's alarmingly high. You can't deny that.

I admire you resolve in protecting Thailand here. I'm not out to bash Thailand! I love the place with a passion, speak read write the language. I'm saying what I see. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[Nisa]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

I live in Destin/30a Florida and have a place on Pensacola Beach. This stretch, Pensacola to Panama City, is one of the most beautiful and busiest beachs in the US for vactioners. Being a lawyer here with three officers up and down this stretch of coast and knowing a lot of the local law enforcement guys, I generally hear about anything that relates to death or injury.

We occasionally see kids fall off balconies while trying to go from one to the next on high rises while intoxicated. We get the occasional drowning, usually rips tides. We get the car wrecks, but not death too often. There have been 2 fatalities by shark attack in the last ten years that I can recall. One out of town girl did get rapped and beat to death by a local 18 year old on drugs in a fairly wooded area off the beaten path. That was big news as as was a guy getting shot in a parking lot about 5 ro 10 years ago after mouthing off to someone.

I cannot think of any deaths by poisoning or unexplained deaths. I have never heard of people just mysteriously dropping dead in hotels (and God knows we have a lot of large hotels). Two sisters in their 20s turning up dead and a week later, no real explanation. Ridiculous. Stuff like that would be talk of the town and probably give this lazy fishy village something to talk about.

So, you want to compare a quite beach city in the US with a 150 police officers and numerous fully staffed hospitals to an Island in Thailand known for partying by young people with just one medical facility staffed by 1 doctor and 5 nurses. Does that seem the least bit logical? Why not compare it to Miami Beach (http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Miami-Beach-Florida.html) it would show about as much logic.

[MEL1]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

yes, everywhere people die, but

- a hospital full of "food poisonings" is NOT normal

- and 4 unexplained deaths on this island in a few years...?

no...

if there is a bacteria that makes so many people sick and kills some - then "ok" - but it has to be identified and a travel warning raised...

people could perhaps prepare with proper medication, avoid some foods or been tested before they travel - or stay away...

there seems a particular problem on phi phi.. too many deaths, too young people and too little explanation...

the virus/bacteria/source has to be identified...

2 unexplained deaths. Not 4. It is incredibly normal to not know a cause of death for a month after while autopsy and toxicology information is examined. A nurse at the hospital was quoted as saying they see cases of food poisoning each day. The hospital is not even a real hospital and is more a triage center with one doctor on duty. It is to treat minor ailments or stabilize people to be transported to a real hospital. They say the number of food poisoning cases they see is not unusual with most being treated right there. Up to 10,000 visitors visit the island each day with a good deal of them there to party and get a bit wild as well as not having built up local tolerances to everything from bacteria in food to the mosquito breed there.

Instead of being drama queens, why not wait until the facts are in and instead of putting on blinders, compare the island to any other party haven beach town and then consider the stage of development of that particular country. Sure, it is human nature to speculate and be curious but lets not pretend things have or have not happened based on personal emotions.

Yes and keep on abstracting and distracting and you know what the whole thing didn't happen at all, and black is white, and we really don't need to consider these terrible deaths, because they become a small stat, correlated with trends, and regressed out of existence to show that in fact there isn't a problem at all!

Wake up smell the poison!

Well one of us from the very outset laid the foundations for interference.... and not a simple night.

I rest my case.

-mel.

Edit: rat poison? my ass.

Edited June 22, 2012 by MEL1

[Nisa]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

While I'd like to side with you on this one Nisa, the statistic that more Brits die in Thailand every year than any other place in the world (aside from the UK obviously) makes it hard for me to do that. (Source.)

Don't get me wrong, I love this place like no other. It is a perilous place though where people seem to die in suspicious circumstances too regularly for it to be coincidental.

Maybe it just attracts the wrong type of person. For hedonists this place can be a death sentence.

My take on it.

Right in your link right next to what you are claiming it says ...

"Most of those deaths are of long-term elderly British residents," says a Foreign Office spokesman.

It also states more Brits get in trouble here than anywhere else and require consular assistance but the fact that you are missing is most of the deaths are actually from drinking Britts who do themselves in on motorbikes while not wearing helmets.

I do read my sources in full, before I use them, to fail to do so would be churlish.

"Most of those deaths are of long-term elderly British residents," says a Foreign Office spokesman. But not all of them.

and

"Some 224 Britons died in Thailand between April 2005 and March last year (2007) - a toll five times higher than in the second deadliest tourist destination, India."

Even the amount that remain after elderly retirees is so far ahead of the nearest country globally that to just wave this away would be shortsighted, and that's also not to say that the eldery retirees aren't the ones on the receiving end of a suspicious death. Interesting that you didn't think of that. Given that the average age of an expatriate here would be quite high.

Not to mention the fact that Thailand doesn't have the most Brit retirees on a global scale, there's lots of countries that have way more retired expatriate Brits. My own folks are in Spain and there's a massive community there. They're not dying at any alarming rate and Spain does not even get a mention on the FO's list.

Yes I did take RTAs into account. Yes it is high. Thailand (unofficially) has the 2nd most deaths and RTAs in the world. (Source available.)

I don't want to get into a debate about it really. It's a fact the Home Office can prove on paper. It's alarmingly high. You can't deny that.

I admire you resolve in protecting Thailand here. I'm not out to bash Thailand! I love the place with a passion, speak read write the language. I'm saying what I see. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, many Britts come to Thailand to retire .. possibly more than any other country. And yes, Britts cause trouble more in Thailand than they do anywhere else overseas and yes they die here more with the leading cause of death being they ride motorbikes without helmets ... Maybe just me but this would seem more to be an issue with Britts than safety in Thailand.

[MB1]

Town mayor Louise Labonte described them to the Toronto Star as adventurous and full of promise.

You can determine this meaning among yourselves.

If someone did supply these girls with drugs, or an over dose of date rape drugs, than it was murder, pure and simple.

I think the police now know a lot more than they are letting on while this investigation continues, but I think soon the full facts regarding this case will be released, so stay tuned to this channel.

Lets hope we do get the facts and soon rather than later as we can do without all the sleuths, Miss marples, Frost, lewis, CSI wannabes, Sherlock Holmes and so on, jeez I'm suprised Batman And Robin aint turned up on TV yet.

By the way just as a point IMO, supplying someone with drugs who later dies as a result of taking them voluntarily I doubt it could be classed as murder, I'd hazard a guess at Involuntary Manslaughter but have no idea what the charge would be in Thailand.

As for the date rape drugs? has anyone said they were raped yet.?.

[ginjag]

Nisa reading the posts from you, I really understand what your trying to say (defend) and I do admire your tenacity, but most have vivid memories of similar (unfortunate outcomes) explanations and coverups hence the regular outcry. The bashers as you call posters are the wary-once bitten twice shy brigade-- that doubt a fair outcome. Biggest problem as you well know is if any incident that can be paid for-or swept under the carpet will be done, Money and tainting Thai reputation is a no no here even when it's warranted. Would be nice if most things were clean and open, we would all smile, maybe this can be a first.

[ttelise]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

I live in Destin/30a Florida and have a place on Pensacola Beach. This stretch, Pensacola to Panama City, is one of the most beautiful and busiest beachs in the US for vactioners. Being a lawyer here with three officers up and down this stretch of coast and knowing a lot of the local law enforcement guys, I generally hear about anything that relates to death or injury.

We occasionally see kids fall off balconies while trying to go from one to the next on high rises while intoxicated. We get the occasional drowning, usually rips tides. We get the car wrecks, but not death too often. There have been 2 fatalities by shark attack in the last ten years that I can recall. One out of town girl did get rapped and beat to death by a local 18 year old on drugs in a fairly wooded area off the beaten path. That was big news as as was a guy getting shot in a parking lot about 5 ro 10 years ago after mouthing off to someone.

I cannot think of any deaths by poisoning or unexplained deaths. I have never heard of people just mysteriously dropping dead in hotels (and God knows we have a lot of large hotels). Two sisters in their 20s turning up dead and a week later, no real explanation. Ridiculous. Stuff like that would be talk of the town and probably give this lazy fishy village something to talk about.

So, you want to compare a quite beach city in the US with a 150 police officers and numerous fully staffed hospitals to an Island in Thailand known for partying by young people with just one medical facility staffed by 1 doctor and 5 nurses. Does that seem the least bit logical? Why not compare it to Miami Beach (http://www.city-data...ch-Florida.html) it would show about as much logic.

Uhm, you said where kids go for spring break. More kids go for spring break in my stretch than to Miama.

So, don't say or use where kids go for spring break as example.

Yeah, Miami is a train wreck. Economy in the dumper, lots of imigration, no one hardly speaks english there, housing market down 60 percent . . .

Phi Phi real comparable to Miami. I gurantee you more people hit the stretch of beach I live on than Phuket for vacation during tourist season. Pretty dead here in winter though.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ttelise

[Nisa]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

yes, everywhere people die, but

- a hospital full of "food poisonings" is NOT normal

- and 4 unexplained deaths on this island in a few years...?

no...

if there is a bacteria that makes so many people sick and kills some - then "ok" - but it has to be identified and a travel warning raised...

people could perhaps prepare with proper medication, avoid some foods or been tested before they travel - or stay away...

there seems a particular problem on phi phi.. too many deaths, too young people and too little explanation...

the virus/bacteria/source has to be identified...

2 unexplained deaths. Not 4. It is incredibly normal to not know a cause of death for a month after while autopsy and toxicology information is examined. A nurse at the hospital was quoted as saying they see cases of food poisoning each day. The hospital is not even a real hospital and is more a triage center with one doctor on duty. It is to treat minor ailments or stabilize people to be transported to a real hospital. They say the number of food poisoning cases they see is not unusual with most being treated right there. Up to 10,000 visitors visit the island each day with a good deal of them there to party and get a bit wild as well as not having built up local tolerances to everything from bacteria in food to the mosquito breed there.

Instead of being drama queens, why not wait until the facts are in and instead of putting on blinders, compare the island to any other party haven beach town and then consider the stage of development of that particular country. Sure, it is human nature to speculate and be curious but lets not pretend things have or have not happened based on personal emotions.

and instead of giving good tips to the audience, why not just READ and stick to the facts? ...AND it was not 2 unexplained deaths, it was THREE...or FIVE until now... Two years ago the two young girls and the norwegian lady a day later in the same guesthouse and now the two girls from Canada.... but OK, may be they lived in the same guesthouse before AND had the same food...or tablets...

Ok, lets stick to the facts. What are the names of the 5 or even 3 tourist who deaths were ruled unknown on Phi Phi. Maybe I am wrong but I am only aware of a case of 2 deaths where the cause was undetermined and they were an American named Jill St Onge and a Norwegian named Julie Bergheim, Julie also had an autopsy performed in Norway where the cause was still unable to be determined.

So, who am I missing?

[ttelise]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

I live in Destin/30a Florida and have a place on Pensacola Beach. This stretch, Pensacola to Panama City, is one of the most beautiful and busiest beachs in the US for vactioners. Being a lawyer here with three officers up and down this stretch of coast and knowing a lot of the local law enforcement guys, I generally hear about anything that relates to death or injury.

We occasionally see kids fall off balconies while trying to go from one to the next on high rises while intoxicated. We get the occasional drowning, usually rips tides. We get the car wrecks, but not death too often. There have been 2 fatalities by shark attack in the last ten years that I can recall. One out of town girl did get rapped and beat to death by a local 18 year old on drugs in a fairly wooded area off the beaten path. That was big news as as was a guy getting shot in a parking lot about 5 ro 10 years ago after mouthing off to someone.

I cannot think of any deaths by poisoning or unexplained deaths. I have never heard of people just mysteriously dropping dead in hotels (and God knows we have a lot of large hotels). Two sisters in their 20s turning up dead and a week later, no real explanation. Ridiculous. Stuff like that would be talk of the town and probably give this lazy fishy village something to talk about.

So, you want to compare a quite beach city in the US with a 150 police officers and numerous fully staffed hospitals to an Island in Thailand known for partying by young people with just one medical facility staffed by 1 doctor and 5 nurses. Does that seem the least bit logical? Why not compare it to Miami Beach (http://www.city-data...ch-Florida.html) it would show about as much logic.

Destin much more like Phuket than Miami.

Just looked at some numbers, may be wrong, but they appeared to say:

Destin has 4.0 million tourist yearly

Panama City (next to Destin) 6.5 million

Then we have Navarre, Santa Rosa, 30a corrider, and Pensacola Beach

Phuket get 5.3 million tourist

So . . . My little sleepy fishing village area needs only 150 cops even though we get almost double or even triple the number of tourist Phuket gets.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ttelise

[SGD]

The plot thickens, as the BIB try to muddy the waters to ensure that there is no damage to Thai reputation.

Couldn't possibly be some nice honest smiling Thai (drug dealer).

[ManInSurat]

Yes, many Britts come to Thailand to retire .. possibly more than any other country. And yes, Britts cause trouble more in Thailand than they do anywhere else overseas and yes they die here more with the leading cause of death being they ride motorbikes without helmets ... Maybe just me but this would seem more to be an issue with Britts than safety in Thailand.

Not more than any other country. Not fact. It's not even in the top 7. I can back up what I say.

Australia 1.3m

Spain 0.76m

USA 0.67

Canada 0.60m

Ireland 0.29m

New Zealand 0.21m

South Africa 0.21m

(Source.)

"cause more trouble" and are "most likely to get into the sort of trouble that requires consular assistance" are not the same thing and I actually resent your inference in that statement, especially when you follow that with "seem more to be an issue with Brits [sic]".

Cool man, I'm not here for this kind of bias and will leave you to your opinions. If it was warranted, fair enough, but it's not and spoils any further debate for me.

I will say in parting that the English have always been referred to as "ผู้ดีอังกฤษ" or "Poo Dee Angrit" and I've actually been called that, quite a lot of times in my "หมู่บ้าน" "moo ban."

We're the only "ฟรัง" "farang" to be singled out with this honorific and I've asked why. I keep my findings to myself as I doubt many craps will be given.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[ginjag]

Nisa, why try to rub posters up the wrong way, now its Brits stats, if there are more brits here or visiting, isn't it natural for more incidents involving them. If you want to start Brit bashing-good I think your going to tread in deep water. most of the time you are pushing your country into every post you can, now we have Miami etc, into the picture. You did post a few posts back about posters being "drama queens" thats a bit real coming from you. Back from Miami stats, and on topic time will tell us re-Phi Phi incident what the outcome is.

[cdnvic]

Calm down a bit everyone. We've removed a few trolls but everyone has to stop taking this so personally.

[Nisa]

Yes, many Britts come to Thailand to retire .. possibly more than any other country. And yes, Britts cause trouble more in Thailand than they do anywhere else overseas and yes they die here more with the leading cause of death being they ride motorbikes without helmets ... Maybe just me but this would seem more to be an issue with Britts than safety in Thailand.

Not more than any other country. Not fact. It's not even in the top 7. I can back up what I say.

Australia 1.3m

Spain 0.76m

USA 0.67

Canada 0.60m

Ireland 0.29m

New Zealand 0.21m

South Africa 0.21m

(Source.)

Your source is where Brits are living abroad and not about about tourist or retirees but more importantly I never stated they retire to Thailand more as fact or is the word "possibly" foreign to you? But let me rephrase my suspicions and that is the less wealthy and/or more "adventurous" likely tend to retire in Thailand more than other countries.

Bottom line is the vast majority of Britts who die in Thailand die of their own doing or they are older and their time is simply up (fact). They are not being murdered or dying of mystery illnesses. But would any person with an ounce of sense believe that you would receive the same healthcare in a less developed foreign country than you would back in the UK???? Are retirement health benefits even payable here? If not then there is even less a chance these pensioners are going to take care of themselves as they would back home in their own country where their benefits are payable.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

...to speculate on what has been officially released.

to avoid this happening, police everywhere holds press conferences, where information is given to the public and the press...

what did they say in the press conference?

You can read numerous quotes from numerous news sources which quote the information police have provided and just like everywhere else, they don't give a blow by blow and keep details to themselves while (and even after) the investigation is on going. Please don't pretend police in the west are in the habit of releasing details of an ongoing investigation. Again, stop being led by emotions and step back into reality.

long winded...

so there are no press conferences...

If you don't consider the authorities standing in front of cameras and making statements to the press a press conference - then no they didn't have a press conference as far as I know and all the information they have provided and that has been quoted from names sources has been provided in some way that was not a press conference and somehow this makes it less credible than a press conference where police ALWAYS state they will not comment on certain facts during an ongoing investigation would be different than what is happening here. You are not in the west and things are not done the same here and it is silly to have such expectations.

Edit: By the way, there are tons of "press conferences" here after arrests are made. Just look through some of the threads to read how many people make fun of them because they often have the victim there pointing at the accuser or all the evidence lined up on a table in front of the suspect. Problem is, that they don't do them in English no matter how much some farangs believe everything should revolve around them here.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Nisa

[TonyGilbert]

I don't want to enter this bash fest, but Ibuprofen, really? Is there some suggestion they died from stomach ulcers? Why do they keep bringing this up? It seems only intended to suggest self inflicted harm. How many of us don't travel with Ibuprofen in our bags? God, if they'd found me dead in a hotel room this visit they'd be blaming Ibuprofen, antihistamines, Panadeine, DeGas, nasal spray and Codral. "A huge cocktail of over the counter drugs was found in the victim's room, he'd been complaining of flu symptoms."

[Bender]

yeah blame it on foreigner as usual.

[Nisa]

I don't want to enter this bash fest, but Ibuprofen, really? Is there some suggestion they died from stomach ulcers? Why do they keep bringing this up? It seems only intended to suggest self inflicted harm. How many of us don't travel with Ibuprofen in our bags? God, if they'd found me dead in a hotel room this visit they'd be blaming Ibuprofen, antihistamines, Panadeine, DeGas, nasal spray and Codral. "A huge cocktail of over the counter drugs was found in the victim's room, he'd been complaining of flu symptoms."

I haven't heard or seen one news report were any official speculated or hinted at suicide or the cause of death being Ibuprofen though I have seen speculation and many comments here.

I assume they mentioned that Ibuprofen and a number of OTC drugs, while no illegal drugs were found drugs were found in the room, because this is what was in the room and not because of any sinister intention .. especially when officials have said from the get go they suspect some kind of poisoning but have made clear they need to wait for the autopsy.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Nisa

[jaideecm]

I had the experience of a farang who drugged a friend of mine and he would of died if i didn't check on him. Here is the story.

Back in 1992 I was living at Cowboy Guest house in Chiang Mai for 3 month stay. I met a journalist named Richard who was also doing a long stay and I showed him around North Thailand as I could speak Thai and new many nice villages. A man who said he was from Spain was doing a short stay and befriended both of us. We knew him for about 3 days and he asked me if I would talk to girls and take the to japan, the USA or another country where he would them meet them and i would leave and get paid. I thought that very strange and wrong. That evening we went out on the town and he paid for our good time. In the day room he offered us yogurt and I said no thank you and I was going to bed. Richard took the yogurt and ate with him.

The next morning I was to meet Richard for breakfast and head out for a 3 day motorbike journey to visit villages. When he didn't show up i went to his room to wake him and there was no answer from my knocking. I then had Cowboy give me the keys to get into his room. He was laying their lifeless and would not respond to my trying to wake him up. Next to his bed was a heroin kit with needles, spoon, heroin and everying to make it look like a drug overdose. I ran downstairs and flagged a Songteaw. 3 of us carried Richard to the Songteaw and rushed him to McCormick hospital. Richard did survive but only barely. His laptop, money, passport and anything of value from his room was stolen.

Cowboy guest house did not take down passport information from guests at that time and is hopefully now out of business. I gave my full report to the police and informed the US consulate about the strange man from Spain wanting me to take girls out of the country for money.

In my experience living here I have found farangs can be more dangerous than Thais. many Russian, Chinese and European Mafias are in Thailand to exploit tourists.

When people are on holiday they put there guard down. They do things they would never do in their home country. Be vigilant, do not take food from strangers. It seams from the police report this man from Spain used a needle to put a heavy fast acting sleeping drug into Richards yogurt, shot him up with heroin, took everything he had and split right after.

I am so glad I DO NOT take food from strangers.

Be careful,

Randy

Your buddy had a laptop in 1992?

Possible...but they cost between $3000 and $5000 each...

Yes he did and it was heavy compared to today's laptops, battery didn't last long either. He was a journalist and wrote stories on it.

Richard now has a Vietnamese wife and lives there. He will never return to Thailand.

[Nisa]

I had the experience of a farang who drugged a friend of mine and he would of died if i didn't check on him. Here is the story.

Back in 1992 I was living at Cowboy Guest house in Chiang Mai for 3 month stay. I met a journalist named Richard who was also doing a long stay and I showed him around North Thailand as I could speak Thai and new many nice villages. A man who said he was from Spain was doing a short stay and befriended both of us. We knew him for about 3 days and he asked me if I would talk to girls and take the to japan, the USA or another country where he would them meet them and i would leave and get paid. I thought that very strange and wrong. That evening we went out on the town and he paid for our good time. In the day room he offered us yogurt and I said no thank you and I was going to bed. Richard took the yogurt and ate with him.

The next morning I was to meet Richard for breakfast and head out for a 3 day motorbike journey to visit villages. When he didn't show up i went to his room to wake him and there was no answer from my knocking. I then had Cowboy give me the keys to get into his room. He was laying their lifeless and would not respond to my trying to wake him up. Next to his bed was a heroin kit with needles, spoon, heroin and everying to make it look like a drug overdose. I ran downstairs and flagged a Songteaw. 3 of us carried Richard to the Songteaw and rushed him to McCormick hospital. Richard did survive but only barely. His laptop, money, passport and anything of value from his room was stolen.

Cowboy guest house did not take down passport information from guests at that time and is hopefully now out of business. I gave my full report to the police and informed the US consulate about the strange man from Spain wanting me to take girls out of the country for money.

In my experience living here I have found farangs can be more dangerous than Thais. many Russian, Chinese and European Mafias are in Thailand to exploit tourists.

When people are on holiday they put there guard down. They do things they would never do in their home country. Be vigilant, do not take food from strangers. It seams from the police report this man from Spain used a needle to put a heavy fast acting sleeping drug into Richards yogurt, shot him up with heroin, took everything he had and split right after.

I am so glad I DO NOT take food from strangers.

Be careful,

Randy

Your buddy had a laptop in 1992?

Possible...but they cost between $3000 and $5000 each...

Yes he did and it was heavy compared to today's laptops, battery didn't last long either. He was a journalist and wrote stories on it.

Richard now has a Vietnamese wife and lives there. He will never return to Thailand.

I never questioned your event until your last and most recent comment. To clarify, you are saying because 1 person (a foreigner) in a country of 60-million did something very bad to him 20-years ago that he will never return here? If so, I hope I never read one of his articles because he doesn't sound like a very objective or reasonable person.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Nisa