How did Scalia vote? I wasn't dissing ALL the justices.

A wonderfully surprising decision that I think the American people are going to enthusiastically accept. The constitutionality red herring is in the trash now. Time to move on to refine the Obamacare system around the issue of COSTS. That is something there should be bipartisan support for. For that, Obama needs to be reelected. Romney will still try to trash the entire law, which politically, is a loser idea but that's what his right wing base wants.

The mandate survives. The bill survives. The supreme court retains some credibility!

FANTASTIC!!!!

You are very, very naive if you think the right wingers would have gone for some kind of single payer solution now if the bill had been struck down. A HUGE VICTORY for the American people and for two term President Obama. Obamacare isn't perfect but a precedent has been set.

OK, now APOLOGIZE for slandering all the conservative justices, especially Chief Justice Roberts appointed by Bush.

I'm reading the Indiv Mandate survived as a TAX, not under the Commerce Clause. Interesting.

Hmm, that IS interesting. I haven't read it yet, but if they say it's legal if you find a way to pay for it, that would be fantastic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfunded_mandate

They got it wrong. A HUGE WIN for Obama. That's a technical legal thing. The mandate is now a TAX. Any tax is legal. The total bill survives including the mandate which is now a tax. This is the PERFECT result for Obama. I am flabbergasted.

Yes, I'm gloating.

Washington Post now:

Breaking News

Supreme Court upholds individual mandate in health-care law

Obama is now the biggest tax raiser in US history. Wait for the attack ads coming soon to a screen near you!

Taxes aren't inherently bad it's what you do with the money that's important. I recollect you posting your taxable income for last year here a while back. I paid more than your income in taxes. My families health care insurance expenses are more than your taxable income. My family is eligible for neither Medicare nor Medicaid. I'd like to get a little return on my money thanks.

How did Scalia vote? I wasn't dissing ALL the justices.

A wonderfully surprising decision that I think the American people are going to enthusiastically accept. The constitutionality red herring is in the trash now. Time to move on to refine the Obamacare system around the issue of COSTS. That is something there should be bipartisan support for. For that, Obama needs to be reelected. Romney will still try to trash the entire law, which politically, is a loser idea but that's what his right wing base wants.

Apologize.

This result is actually BETTER for Obama than a total acceptance of the law. People didn't like the mandate language. Now it's not a mandate, it's a tax, which nobody likes but most everyone accepts. I can assure you the white house feels the same way. Total victory for Obama on this one. And considering the booming economies of most swing states, recent polling trends showing large margins for Obama in the swing states, things are now looking very rosy for reelection.

For leftists, who dream that Obamacare will someday morph into single payer universal funded by taxes, this ruling gives a glimmer of hope for that as well. COSTS are the crisis now and the government must deal with it. Moving towards universal is the way. Not right away, but a logical "evolution" is now becoming clearer.

where is the rioting, broken shop windows, burned cars and mass street protest? Oh thats right the conservitves lost; they seem to show a bit of class when things dont go their way.

How did Scalia vote? I wasn't dissing ALL the justices.

A wonderfully surprising decision that I think the American people are going to enthusiastically accept. The constitutionality red herring is in the trash now. Time to move on to refine the Obamacare system around the issue of COSTS. That is something there should be bipartisan support for. For that, Obama needs to be reelected. Romney will still try to trash the entire law, which politically, is a loser idea but that's what his right wing base wants.

Apologize.

You don't order me to apologize, so give it up. How offensive.

where is the rioting, broken shop windows, burned cars and mass street protest? Oh thats right the conservitves lost; they seem to show a bit of class when things dont go their way.

It's still early.

They got it wrong. A HUGE WIN for Obama. That's a technical legal thing. The mandate is now a TAX. Any tax is legal. The total bill survives including the mandate which is now a tax. This is the PERFECT result for Obama. I am flabbergasted.

Yes, I'm gloating.

Washington Post now:

Breaking News

Supreme Court upholds individual mandate in health-care law

Obama is now the biggest tax raiser in US history. Wait for the attack ads coming soon to a screen near you!

Taxes aren't inherently bad it's what you do with the money that's important. I recollect you posting your taxable income for last year here a while back. I paid more than your income in taxes. My families health care insurance expenses are more than your taxable income. My family is eligible for neither Medicare nor Medicaid. I'd like to get a little return on my money thanks.

Yeah, I was unemployed most of 2011 and under-employed all 2012 and have earned pitifully little. Hopefully by 2014 that won't be the case anymore - BUT, if so, how much will I be penalized? $2000? $4000? My taxable income in 2011 was around $15k. I can't afford the deductible on insurance let alone the penalty. What if like now I'm not even in the country? Will I be required to buy US insurance or face penalties even if I am living in Europe or Thailand?

Now that this has been upheld, I need to think about this stuff.

This result is actually BETTER for Obama than a total acceptance of the law. People didn't like the mandate language. Now it's not a mandate, it's a tax, which nobody likes but most everyone accepts. I can assure you the white house feels the same way. Total victory for Obama on this one. And considering the booming economies of most swing states, recent polling trends showing large margins for Obama in the swing states, things are now looking very rosy for reelection.

For leftists, who dream that Obamacare will someday morph into single payer universal funded by taxes, this ruling gives a glimmer of hope for that as well. COSTS are the crisis now and the government must deal with it. Moving towards universal is the way. Not right away, but a logical "evolution" is now becoming clearer.

The "evolution" will not work. As has been seen with the time between this law being passed and now, markets are WAY ahead. You need to rip the bandaid off. It's for the best.

This result is actually BETTER for Obama than a total acceptance of the law. People didn't like the mandate language. Now it's not a mandate, it's a tax, which nobody likes but most everyone accepts. I can assure you the white house feels the same way. Total victory for Obama on this one. And considering the booming economies of most swing states, recent polling trends showing large margins for Obama in the swing states, things are now looking very rosy for reelection.

For leftists, who dream that Obamacare will someday morph into single payer universal funded by taxes, this ruling gives a glimmer of hope for that as well. COSTS are the crisis now and the government must deal with it. Moving towards universal is the way. Not right away, but a logical "evolution" is now becoming clearer.

Apologize. Admit you were wrong. You spent pages going off on the conservative justices and the Chief Justice, a Bush appointee, voted to uphold it. Quit squirming and spinning and apologize already.

Taxes aren't inherently bad it's what you do with the money that's important. I recollect you posting your taxable income for last year here a while back. I paid more than your income in taxes. My families health care insurance expenses are more than your taxable income. My family is eligible for neither Medicare nor Medicaid. I'd like to get a little return on my money thanks.

Yeah, I was unemployed most of 2011 and under-employed all 2012 and have earned pitifully little. Hopefully by 2014 that won't be the case anymore - BUT, if so, how much will I be penalized? $2000? $4000? My taxable income in 2011 was around $15k. I can't afford the deductible on insurance let alone the penalty. What if like now I'm not even in the country? Will I be required to buy US insurance or face penalties even if I am living in Europe or Thailand?

Now that this has been upheld, I need to think about this stuff.

I understand and I hope things go for you employment wise the way that you'd wish. In the meantime, get on the bus.

How did Scalia vote? I wasn't dissing ALL the justices.

A wonderfully surprising decision that I think the American people are going to enthusiastically accept. The constitutionality red herring is in the trash now. Time to move on to refine the Obamacare system around the issue of COSTS. That is something there should be bipartisan support for. For that, Obama needs to be reelected. Romney will still try to trash the entire law, which politically, is a loser idea but that's what his right wing base wants.

Scalia voted to overturn the mandate. Justice Roberts was the deciding vote in a 5-4 decision.

I will be wearing black arm bands for at least the next week.

They ruled it unconstitutional under the Commerce Clause, which is the clause Obama's attorney argued. The SCOTUS, however, ruled the penalty for not purchasing insurance to be a TAX since the fines were to be administered by the IRS...or something to that effect.

Taxes aren't inherently bad it's what you do with the money that's important. I recollect you posting your taxable income for last year here a while back. I paid more than your income in taxes. My families health care insurance expenses are more than your taxable income. My family is eligible for neither Medicare nor Medicaid. I'd like to get a little return on my money thanks.

Yeah, I was unemployed most of 2011 and under-employed all 2012 and have earned pitifully little. Hopefully by 2014 that won't be the case anymore - BUT, if so, how much will I be penalized? $2000? $4000? My taxable income in 2011 was around $15k. I can't afford the deductible on insurance let alone the penalty. What if like now I'm not even in the country? Will I be required to buy US insurance or face penalties even if I am living in Europe or Thailand?

Now that this has been upheld, I need to think about this stuff.

I understand and I hope things go for you employment wise the way that you'd wish. In the meantime, get on the bus.

I walk when I can (to stay healthy and keep from becoming overweight) but bought a monthly bus pass yesterday for just 27 EUR. That much I can afford.

Now that this has been upheld, I hope that when Romney wins in November they don't waste a lot of time trying to overturn it. I'd rather they move forward. Fix it, adjust it, but don't just spend months/years to repeal it when it hasn't even gone into effect. Let's see what actually happens when it is in full swing. If it is a mess, then get rid of it.

Oh, and I hope the government shows for the first time that they can manage something right. Not much faith in that happening.

How did Scalia vote? I wasn't dissing ALL the justices.

A wonderfully surprising decision that I think the American people are going to enthusiastically accept. The constitutionality red herring is in the trash now. Time to move on to refine the Obamacare system around the issue of COSTS. That is something there should be bipartisan support for. For that, Obama needs to be reelected. Romney will still try to trash the entire law, which politically, is a loser idea but that's what his right wing base wants.

Scalia voted to overturn the mandate. Justice Roberts was the deciding vote in a 5-4 decision.

I will be wearing black arm bands for at least the next week.

They ruled it unconstitutional under the Commerce Clause, which is the clause Obama's attorney argued. The SCOTUS, however, ruled the penalty for not purchasing insurance to be a TAX since the fines were to be administered by the IRS...or something to that effect.

It's been a crapshoot at the Supreme Court with unfunded mandates these past few decades. If I understand the decision correctly the SC now sees the mandate as funded by a tax. What tax I don't know. Or perhaps I'm not understanding the decision correctly. JT will be back after awhile after he's read all his other blogs and tell us what it all means. Hopefully without the political grandstanding.

Taxes aren't inherently bad it's what you do with the money that's important. I recollect you posting your taxable income for last year here a while back. I paid more than your income in taxes. My families health care insurance expenses are more than your taxable income. My family is eligible for neither Medicare nor Medicaid. I'd like to get a little return on my money thanks.

Yeah, I was unemployed most of 2011 and under-employed all 2012 and have earned pitifully little. Hopefully by 2014 that won't be the case anymore - BUT, if so, how much will I be penalized? $2000? $4000? My taxable income in 2011 was around $15k. I can't afford the deductible on insurance let alone the penalty. What if like now I'm not even in the country? Will I be required to buy US insurance or face penalties even if I am living in Europe or Thailand?

Now that this has been upheld, I need to think about this stuff.

I understand and I hope things go for you employment wise the way that you'd wish. In the meantime, get on the bus.

I walk when I can (to stay healthy and keep from becoming overweight) but bought a monthly bus pass yesterday for just 27 EUR. That much I can afford.

Now that this has been upheld, I hope that when Romney wins in November they don't waste a lot of time trying to overturn it. I'd rather they move forward. Fix it, adjust it, but don't just spend months/years to repeal it when it hasn't even gone into effect. Let's see what actually happens when it is in full swing. If it is a mess, then get rid of it.

Oh, and I hope the government shows for the first time that they can manage something right. Not much faith in that happening.

I don't think they can repeal it without getting a super-majority in the Senate. If the Democrats become the minority Senate party in the next election, they will use the filibuster, or threat of same, to block action with Cloture not possible since the Republicans will not hold a 60 vote majority.

The government hasn't run an effective program in the past 100 years. Let's don't expect very much good coming out of all this.

<deleted>.................the individual mandate has been upheld as constitutional?????

Here's the link to the ruling

http://www.supremeco.../11-393c3a2.pdf

Something has changed in America today.......

.

Hmmm, it's looking a little worse than I thought. For me at least. Seems that's always the case.

Amy Howe:

In Plain English: The Affordable Care Act, including its individual mandate that virtually all Americans buy health insurance, is constitutional. There were not five votes to uphold it on the ground that Congress could use its power to regulate commerce between the states to require everyone to buy health insurance. However, five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power. That is all that matters. Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn't comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding.

http://scotusblog.wpengine.com/

Thanks Amy

Amy Howe:

Take a quick look at Footnote 11, which is on page 44 of the slip opinion: Those subject to the individual mandate may lawfully forgo health insurance and pay higher taxes, or buy health insurance and pay lower taxes. The only thing that they may not lawfully do is not buy health insurance and not pay the resulting tax.

http://scotusblog.wpengine.com/

11:12

Tom: Lyle is working on his initial post now. He will be adding to it but here's the first paragraph: Salvaging the idea that Congress did have the power to try to expand health care to virtually all Americans, the Supreme Court on Monday upheld the constitutionality of the crucial – and most controversial — feature of the Affordable Care Act. By a vote of 5-4, however, the Court did not sustain it as a command for Americans to buy insurance, but as a tax if they don’t. That is the way Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., was willing to vote for it, and his view prevailed. The other Justices split 4-4, with four wanting to uphold it as a mandate, and four opposed to it in any form.

http://scotusblog.wpengine.com/

Don’t call it a mandate — it’s a tax

Salvaging the idea that Congress did have the power to try to expand health care to virtually all Americans, the Supreme Court on Monday upheld the constitutionality of the crucial – and most controversial — feature of the Affordable Care Act. By a vote of 5-4, however, the Court did not sustain it as a command for Americans to buy insurance, but as a tax if they don’t. That is the way Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., was willing to vote for it, and his view prevailed. The other Justices split 4-4, with four wanting to uphold it as a mandate, and four opposed to it in any form.

http://www.scotusblog.com/2012/06/dont-call-it-a-mandate-its-a-tax/

Yes, the mandate to get insurance stands, whether private, governmental, or through employer. If you don't, the penalty for not having it is the same as before, just now called a tax. Makes good sense.

Low income people are exempt from the penalty/tax.

Bonafide expats are exempt from the mandate.

Speaking selfishly, there is a potential huge benefit for expats to Obamacare standing. Supposing you need to expatriate because of serious medical issues; my understanding is that you can then buy insurance to cover you with any preexisting conditions. Here in Thailand of course you can't buy insurance to cover preexisting conditions. So I think you get my drift. A bit of a safety net for American expats under medicare age.

I could be wrong about that reading, but that's how I see it now. I also don't think that given expats are such a tiny percentage of Americans, that there is likely to be a big political backlash against that benefit.

As far as repealing the law, forget about it. While Romney and republicans will obviously try to stir up the tea party about that goal, the reality is there is no chance the republicans will get the needed 60 votes in the senate to move a repeal forward.

If you don't like Obamacare, tough cookies. It is here to stay. I don't like it either. I want single payer and the insurance companies fired. But with Obamacare are a given, ideally, there should be bipartisan work to massage the problems with the entire system, largely about COST controls. That crisis isn't going away.

Yes, the mandate to get insurance stands, whether private, governmental, or through employer. If you don't, the penalty for not having it is the same as before, just now called a tax. Makes good sense.

Low income people are exempt from the penalty/tax.

Bonafide expats are exempt from the mandate.

Speaking selfishly, there is a potential huge benefit for expats to Obamacare standing. Supposing you need to expatriate because of serious medical issues; my understanding is that you can then buy insurance to cover you with any preexisting conditions. Here in Thailand of course you can't buy insurance to cover preexisting conditions. So I think you get my drift. A bit of a safety net for American expats under medicare age.

As far as repealing the law, forget about it. While Romney and republicans will obviously try to stir up the tea party about that goal, the reality is there is no chance the republicans will get the needed 60 votes in the senate to move a repeal forward.

If you don't like Obamacare, tough cookies. It is here to stay. Ideally, there should be bipartisan work to massage the problems with the entire system, largely about COST controls. That crisis isn't going away.

I am still unclear about the "tax" aspect of it. If I pay for private medical insurance is it then a tax credit against my ordinary income tax?

Yes, the mandate to get insurance stands, whether private, governmental, or through employer. If you don't, the penalty for not having it is the same as before, just now called a tax. Makes good sense.

Low income people are exempt from the penalty/tax.

Bonafide expats are exempt from the mandate.

Speaking selfishly, there is a potential huge benefit for expats to Obamacare standing. Supposing you need to expatriate because of serious medical issues; my understanding is that you can then buy insurance to cover you with any preexisting conditions. Here in Thailand of course you can't buy insurance to cover preexisting conditions. So I think you get my drift. A bit of a safety net for American expats under medicare age.

As far as repealing the law, forget about it. While Romney and republicans will obviously try to stir up the tea party about that goal, the reality is there is no chance the republicans will get the needed 60 votes in the senate to move a repeal forward.

If you don't like Obamacare, tough cookies. It is here to stay. Ideally, there should be bipartisan work to massage the problems with the entire system, largely about COST controls. That crisis isn't going away.

I am still unclear about the "tax" aspect of it. If I pay for private medical insurance is it then a tax credit against my ordinary income tax?

Not related to your payments for insurance. What was a "penalty" for not complying with the "mandate" is now the exact same thing, just called a tax. If you have complied with the insurance requirement, you owe no additional medical related tax to the IRS. There is a medical tax deduction I think already if your annual medical spending goes over a certain LARGE percentage of your income.

Love the court or hate the court , love the decision or hate the decision, one thing I I think we can all appreciate is that it is beautifully transparent:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

Thank God for George W. Bush Appointee Chief Justice Roberts for without him Obamacare would be in the trash heap of history. I hope the more honest left wingers recognize the fact that without his deciding vote across ideological lines there would be no Obamacare. Naw, they have bad memories and will only remember that 4 justices voted against it.

Yes, the mandate to get insurance stands, whether private, governmental, or through employer. If you don't, the penalty for not having it is the same as before, just now called a tax. Makes good sense.

Low income people are exempt from the penalty/tax.

Bonafide expats are exempt from the mandate.

Speaking selfishly, there is a potential huge benefit for expats to Obamacare standing. Supposing you need to expatriate because of serious medical issues; my understanding is that you can then buy insurance to cover you with any preexisting conditions. Here in Thailand of course you can't buy insurance to cover preexisting conditions. So I think you get my drift. A bit of a safety net for American expats under medicare age.

As far as repealing the law, forget about it. While Romney and republicans will obviously try to stir up the tea party about that goal, the reality is there is no chance the republicans will get the needed 60 votes in the senate to move a repeal forward.

If you don't like Obamacare, tough cookies. It is here to stay. Ideally, there should be bipartisan work to massage the problems with the entire system, largely about COST controls. That crisis isn't going away.

I am still unclear about the "tax" aspect of it. If I pay for private medical insurance is it then a tax credit against my ordinary income tax?

Not related to your payments for insurance. What was a "penalty" for not complying with the "mandate" is now the exact same thing, just called a tax. If you have complied with the insurance requirement, you owe no additional medical related tax to the IRS. There is a medical tax deduction I think already if your annual medical spending goes over a certain LARGE percentage of your income.

I hope the tax for non-compliance is suitably high that everyone will see the folly of the system and say "why not single payor instead"? I expect that expat loophole you mentioned will get closed PDQ.

Thank God for George W. Bush Appointee Chief Justice Roberts for without him Obamacare would be in the trash heap of history. I hope the more honest left wingers recognize the fact that without his deciding vote across ideological lines there would be no Obamacare. Naw, they have bad memories and will only remember that 4 justices voted against it.

I'll go there. Thank you Justice Roberts for this decision. He improved the court's credibility as well with this decision.

Yes, the mandate to get insurance stands, whether private, governmental, or through employer. If you don't, the penalty for not having it is the same as before, just now called a tax. Makes good sense.

Low income people are exempt from the penalty/tax.

Bonafide expats are exempt from the mandate.

Speaking selfishly, there is a potential huge benefit for expats to Obamacare standing. Supposing you need to expatriate because of serious medical issues; my understanding is that you can then buy insurance to cover you with any preexisting conditions. Here in Thailand of course you can't buy insurance to cover preexisting conditions. So I think you get my drift. A bit of a safety net for American expats under medicare age.

As far as repealing the law, forget about it. While Romney and republicans will obviously try to stir up the tea party about that goal, the reality is there is no chance the republicans will get the needed 60 votes in the senate to move a repeal forward.

If you don't like Obamacare, tough cookies. It is here to stay. Ideally, there should be bipartisan work to massage the problems with the entire system, largely about COST controls. That crisis isn't going away.

I am still unclear about the "tax" aspect of it. If I pay for private medical insurance is it then a tax credit against my ordinary income tax?

Not related to your payments for insurance. What was a "penalty" for not complying with the "mandate" is now the exact same thing, just called a tax. If you have complied with the insurance requirement, you owe no additional medical related tax to the IRS. There is a medical tax deduction I think already if your annual medical spending goes over a certain LARGE percentage of your income.

I hope the tax for non-compliance is suitably high that everyone will see the folly of the system and say "why not single payor instead"? I expect that expat loophole you mentioned will get closed PDQ.

Good points. The tax for non-compliance goes up over time. It is structured that way already. I agree the only real answer is universal, but Americans are so insanely socialism-phobic that I just don't see it happening anytime soon. The majority of Americans see that as American exceptionalism. I call is mass stupidity. I don't agree with you about the expat issue. We'll see.

[

I am still unclear about the "tax" aspect of it. If I pay for private medical insurance is it then a tax credit against my ordinary income tax?

Not related to your payments for insurance. What was a "penalty" for not complying with the "mandate" is now the exact same thing, just called a tax. If you have complied with the insurance requirement, you owe no additional medical related tax to the IRS. There is a medical tax deduction I think already if your annual medical spending goes over a certain LARGE percentage of your income.

I hope the tax for non-compliance is suitably high that everyone will see the folly of the system and say "why not single payor instead"? I expect that expat loophole you mentioned will get closed PDQ.

Good points. The tax for compliance goes up over time. It is structured that way already. I agree the only real answer is universal, but Americans are so insanely socialism-phobic that I just don't see it happening anytime soon. I don't agree with you about the expat issue. We'll see.

I can get really crappy medical insurance for my family of four for about $900/mo. It's capped at about $100,00 per calender year/ per person, really awful. I can buy better at $1,600/mo and best at over $2,000/mo. Why wouldn't I buy the cheapest and at the first sign of trouble immediately switch to the best? Something ain't right here. You know how easily YOU'RE offended? This is what offends me.

This is pretty cool - if accurate. An Obamacare calculator. Answer 4 simple questions and it tells you what to expect. btw - it isn't satire.

http://www.washingto...means-for-you/#

For those who don't want to bother, here's what it said for me:

Your coverage:

Right now:If you have been unable to obtain health insurance as a result of a pre-existing medical condition, you may be able to buy it through one of the “high risk pools” the law has set up in each state through the end of 2013. But the premiums in the pools vary and can be high.

Starting in 2014:You will have the option of buying a health plan through your state's exchange with federal assistance. Based on your income, your annual premiums for that plan would beno more than $450 to $600. Your maximum out-of-pocket costs for deductibles and co-payments would be capped at 6 percent of the total cost.

Insurers can’t discriminate against you for having a pre-existing condition, and can only vary rates within a narrow range.

If you do not obtain insurance coverage by 2014 you will be assessed a tax penalty. The penalty becomes progressively greater from 2014 through 2016, when it reaches full strength. At that point, assuming your current income remains the same and your household consists of1 uninsured adult, you would be subject to a penalty of about $695. You are exempt from the penalty if the least expensive plan option in your area exceeds eight percent of your income.