My father was in Palestine from 1945-7.

He watched a country where people lived in "relative" harmony to one torn asunder by a UN mandate followed by an illegal land grab by swarms of Europeans storming the beaches and taking any land they could grab in addition to the mandate (illegal or not)

These too are facts.

Did he happen to mention all the Arabs from surrounding countries that illegally swarmed in as well? That is how most of them got there. They were no more natives than the European Jews and just as illegal.

Did he happen to mention all the Arabs from surrounding countries that illegally swarmed in as well? That is how most of them got there. They were no more natives than the European Jews and just as illegal.

That's true, but the Arabs didn't swarm in before the mandate...................

My father had many friends on both sides in 45. He respected both equally, so in no way was ever anti-sematic. However, he was after his "personal" experiences, not those gleaned from books or propaganda, anti-zionist by 47. He just witnessed too many acts pf violence committed by people who used the excuse that such violence had been inflicted on them as their purported "right" to do the same.

Just an opinion of someone who was there at the time is all, and certainly not an excuse for the violence committed by both sides in more recent years, but certainly one of the factors that hampers the current peace process.

/

That would be a mistake. Israel is more than "our only ally in the region which is a democracy". They are also a buffer. In the same way that Saudi Arabia and others like to use Israel to deflect their citizens' attention away from things at home, Israel is also useful to Western countries. If not for Israel, where would the Islamo-nuts focus their "intentions"? Only the naive would think that with Israel out of the picture Islam would become a true religion of peace.

Israel a democracy? Israel is an Apartheid state ,

Israel and our support of it , plays a very large part in the creation of " Islamo-nuts", if it was not for our support of Israel we might have less of a need for a "buffer"

AS far as I l know no Islamic countries armies are occupying any western countries.

Israel is not an apartheid state. Israeli Arab citizens have the same rights as Jews. They vote and some are elected to office. In Israeli hospitals, Jews and Arabs work side by side. If you are talking about the west bank, the Arabs there are not Israeli citizens. As Jimmy Carter clarified the situation in Israel is not about racial discrimination, it is about land. Not saying there aren't severe issues from the DEMOCRATIC Israeli government, but that apartheid canard is simply another tactic to delegitimize the state of Israel by people who don't like it, often but not always because they do not like Jews.

P.S: Yes of course I am a Zionist but I am NOT a racist. Demonizers of Israel's meme that all Zionists are racists is a dirty lie. Many Zionists including most American Jews are very liberal and progressive on race issues. Some Zionists are racists. Some Palestinians are racists. Some of all peoples are racists. I consider anyone who supports the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, the right of return of the Jewish PEOPLE to their homeland after 2000 years to be Zionists. That's over 90 percent of all Jews.

What ever helps you sleep good at night

Did he happen to mention all the Arabs from surrounding countries that illegally swarmed in as well? That is how most of them got there. They were no more natives than the European Jews and just as illegal.

That's true, but the Arabs didn't swarm in before the mandate...................

Actually they did. Early Zionists began immigrating to the region in the late 1800s, clearing the swamps, rebuilding and farming the land under modern agriculture. By the start of British rule in 1917, Arabs began migrating into the region alongside the Jews because of financial opportunities created by the Jews and the British.The British Mandate was in 1922.

The Jews were the absolute majority In Jerusalem and in other big cities they were close to it. Arabs mainly lived in the agricultural areas. The population of Palestine in 1948 was 538,000 Jews and 1,200,000 Muslims of whom more than 90% were illegal Arab immigrants from the neighbouring Arab countries.

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is...due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” (Palestine Royal Commission Report, p. 242).

Did he happen to mention all the Arabs from surrounding countries that illegally swarmed in as well? That is how most of them got there. They were no more natives than the European Jews and just as illegal.

That's true, but the Arabs didn't swarm in before the mandate...................

Actually they did. Early Zionists began immigrating to the region in the late 1800s, clearing the swamps, rebuilding and farming the land under modern agriculture. By the start of British rule in 1917, Arabs began migrating into the region alongside the Jews because of financial opportunities.The British mandate was in 1922.

The Jews were the absolute majority In Jerusalem and in other big cities they were close to it. Arabs mainly lived in the agricultural areas. The population of Palestine in 1948 was 538,000 Jews and 1,200,000 Muslims of whom more than 90% were illegal Arab immigrants from the neighbouring Arab countries.

If nothing you guy have an extremely good sense of humor.

Stop it, you are killing me!!

What ever helps you sleep good at night

It must be very comforting for you to see this conflict as black and white. Zionists (Jewish nationalists) bad. Palestinian nationalists good. It's not that simple. Not in real life. Not if there is going to be a Jewish state which I get the feeling you don't care one bit if it exists or not.

.

It seems that, as usual, you have no history, facts or educated insights to back up the stupid smileys.

Fighter planes being used now................. Not long to wait to see wants to join in the fun

OK, this is about Egyptians but gives you some idea of the mentality Israel has to deal with from it's neighbors including Syria:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPLFrLOet0Y&feature=player_embedded

Why does EVERY thread about the Middle East have to be about Israel?

Why does EVERY thread about the Middle East have to be about Israel?

This one has a lot to do with Israel. Israel is very worried about the potential use of chemical weapons against them from Syria. I know you have a personal schtick that Israel isn't important. But it actually in reality is important whether you like it or not.

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=278728

Israel could face a large-scale conflict in the aftermath of an attack against Syria’s chemical weapons, Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz said Tuesday, while stressing that the weapons were still under President Bashar Assad’s control.

Speaking to the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Gantz said that the dilemma for Israel was identifying the correct moment to take action, if needed, to destroy the chemical weapons and prevent them from falling into the hands of terrorist groups like Hezbollah.

AS far as I l know no Islamic countries armies are occupying any western countries.

The only reason there aren't any Islamic countries armies occupying any western countries is simple - THEY CAN'T.

Your statement is similar to other silly ones that come out of the left so let me answer some for you now -

The USA is always ___________, you don't see China/etc doing that!!!. - Yeah, because THEY CAN'T.

Oh, Westerners are always doing _________, you never see Asians/Latin Americans/Africans/etc doing that! - Yeah, because THEY CAN'T.

Your type always makes the false assumption that if any other country were the dominant super power on the planet, they would do wonderful things for all people! Rainbows and unicorns for all! Maybe you skipped out on history class, but other countries have had a lot of power throughout history and no one has ever gotten a unicorn out of it. Maybe a bullet through the brain then tossed into a mass grave, or sent off to a slave labor camp, but nope, no unicorns.

Why does EVERY thread about the Middle East have to be about Israel?

This one has a lot to do with Israel. Israel is very worried about the potential use of chemical weapons against them from Syria. I know you have a personal schtick that Israel isn't important. But it actually in reality is important whether you like it or not.

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=278728

Israel could face a large-scale conflict in the aftermath of an attack against Syria’s chemical weapons, Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz said Tuesday, while stressing that the weapons were still under President Bashar Assad’s control.

Speaking to the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Gantz said that the dilemma for Israel was identifying the correct moment to take action, if needed, to destroy the chemical weapons and prevent them from falling into the hands of terrorist groups like Hezbollah.

I was a great supporter of Israel once. They have since lost my support, but could regain it, but that's not germane here. I think the Syrians dying is a lot more important to this particular thread than Israelis or other nationalities that may be at risk.

Why does EVERY thread about the Middle East have to be about Israel?

This one has a lot to do with Israel. Israel is very worried about the potential use of chemical weapons against them from Syria. I know you have a personal schtick that Israel isn't important. But it actually in reality is important whether you like it or not.

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=278728

Israel could face a large-scale conflict in the aftermath of an attack against Syria’s chemical weapons, Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz said Tuesday, while stressing that the weapons were still under President Bashar Assad’s control.

Speaking to the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Gantz said that the dilemma for Israel was identifying the correct moment to take action, if needed, to destroy the chemical weapons and prevent them from falling into the hands of terrorist groups like Hezbollah.

I was a great supporter of Israel once. They have since lost my support, but could regain it, but that's not germane here. I think the Syrians dying is a lot more important to this particular thread than Israelis or other nationalities that may be at risk.

I thought the topic was about NEIGHBORING countries?

Also, IF Israel does decide they must enter into Syria to deal with the chemical weapons, you can bet that is going to have big impact in Syria and very possibly many other counties, such as Iran.

Again, you can act like Israel is peripheral to this situation, but it isn't. Syria is very close to Iran and Iran, Hezbollah is an Iran proxy, and Israel are already in a soft war.

You don't have to support Israel to see they are an important player in this region.

This one has a lot to do with Israel. Israel is very worried about the potential use of chemical weapons against them from Syria. I know you have a personal schtick that Israel isn't important. But it actually in reality is important whether you like it or not.

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=278728

Israel could face a large-scale conflict in the aftermath of an attack against Syria’s chemical weapons, Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz said Tuesday, while stressing that the weapons were still under President Bashar Assad’s control.

Speaking to the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Gantz said that the dilemma for Israel was identifying the correct moment to take action, if needed, to destroy the chemical weapons and prevent them from falling into the hands of terrorist groups like Hezbollah.

I was a great supporter of Israel once. They have since lost my support, but could regain it, but that's not germane here. I think the Syrians dying is a lot more important to this particular thread than Israelis or other nationalities that may be at risk.

I thought the topic was about NEIGHBORING countries?

Also, IF Israel does decide they must enter into Syria to deal with the chemical weapons, you can bet that is going to have big impact in Syria and very possibly many other counties, such as Iran.

Again, you can act like Israel is peripheral to this situation, but it isn't. Syria is very close to Iran and Iran, Hezbollah is an Iran proxy, and Israel are already in a soft war.

You don't have to support Israel to see they are an important player in this region.

True Syria is very close to Iran and Russia, and has issues with Turkey with which it has a huge border area. I think Israel is a second tier consideration here except to those that think everything is about Israel.

True Syria is very close to Iran and Russia, and has issues with Turkey with which it has a huge border area. I think Israel is a second tier consideration here except to those that think everything is about Israel.

Forgetting Russia which isn't in the middle east, what country in the middle east has the strongest military, by far? Second tier, eh? Your bias is showing.

True Syria is very close to Iran and Russia, and has issues with Turkey with which it has a huge border area. I think Israel is a second tier consideration here except to those that think everything is about Israel.

Forgetting Russia which isn't in the middle east, what country in the middle east has the strongest military, by far? Second tier, eh? Your bias is showing.

The Saudi Forces have some of the best kit in the world. Their pilots are Western trained and although of course not "Top Guns" heaven forbid anyone thinking any part of the US military is not the finest in the world, they would bloody the nose of a great many "Western" countries.

In a life and death fight, bloodying someone's nose is a minor consideration.

The only reason there aren't any Islamic countries armies occupying any western countries is simple - THEY CAN'T.

Your statement is similar to other silly ones that come out of the left so let me answer some for you now -

The USA is always ___________, you don't see China/etc doing that!!!. - Yeah, because THEY CAN'T.

Oh, Westerners are always doing _________, you never see Asians/Latin Americans/Africans/etc doing that! - Yeah, because THEY CAN'T.

Your type always makes the false assumption that if any other country were the dominant super power on the planet, they would do wonderful things for all people! Rainbows and unicorns for all! Maybe you skipped out on history class, but other countries have had a lot of power throughout history and no one has ever gotten a unicorn out of it. Maybe a bullet through the brain then tossed into a mass grave, or sent off to a slave labor camp, but nope, no unicorns.

You refer to China.... China is in process of making, not a land-grab, but a sea-grab by building a garrison station on the Paracels in the South China Sea. Wise people, the Chinese.... what major power is going to stop them?

I've often said on this forum that the establishment of Israel in 1948 (sorry if my date is a year or two out) was a major political mistake. I still think so, but so what? Israel is there now; it's not going away, and any rational viewpoint on Middle eastern politics (is that an oxymoron?) has to take Israel into account.

If Syria degenerates into anarchy, which is a very real possibility, Israel might be forced to move in to safeguard its own interests. That probably means an eventual takeover of Lebanon. How long it would be before the other Islamic states join in is anybody's guess. But that scenario, grim as it is, is what we're looking at.

True Syria is very close to Iran and Russia, and has issues with Turkey with which it has a huge border area. I think Israel is a second tier consideration here except to those that think everything is about Israel.

Forgetting Russia which isn't in the middle east, what country in the middle east has the strongest military, by far? Second tier, eh? Your bias is showing.

Forgetting Russia has a naval base in Syria, which is it's only naval base outside the former Soviet Union? Syria is a very strategic ally of the Russians

True Syria is very close to Iran and Russia, and has issues with Turkey with which it has a huge border area. I think Israel is a second tier consideration here except to those that think everything is about Israel.

Forgetting Russia which isn't in the middle east, what country in the middle east has the strongest military, by far? Second tier, eh? Your bias is showing.

"bias showing"? who is most biased? give us a break JT!

True Syria is very close to Iran and Russia, and has issues with Turkey with which it has a huge border area. I think Israel is a second tier consideration here except to those that think everything is about Israel.

Forgetting Russia which isn't in the middle east, what country in the middle east has the strongest military, by far? Second tier, eh? Your bias is showing.

Forgetting Russia has a naval base in Syria, which is it's only naval base outside the former Soviet Union? Syria is a very strategic ally of the Russians

You're twisting again. The TOPIC here is NEIGHBORING countries to Syria. Russia is not one of them. Also, Russia doesn't actually USE that port very much, now do they?

"bias showing"? who is most biased? give us a break JT!

My bias is transparent. I am pro American and also a Zionist, though that doesn't mean at all that I agree with all foreign policy decisions of both governments. A poster like Lannebirth seems to be posing as objective and so obviously not, especially with his snarky dissing of Israel as irrelevant on a thread EXPLICITLY about NEIGHBORS of Syria.

True Syria is very close to Iran and Russia, and has issues with Turkey with which it has a huge border area. I think Israel is a second tier consideration here except to those that think everything is about Israel.

Forgetting Russia which isn't in the middle east, what country in the middle east has the strongest military, by far? Second tier, eh? Your bias is showing.

Forgetting Russia has a naval base in Syria, which is it's only naval base outside the former Soviet Union? Syria is a very strategic ally of the Russians

You're twisting again. The TOPIC here is NEIGHBORING countries to Syria. Russia is not one of them. Also, Russia doesn't actually USE that port very much, now do they?

America doesan't use the Mariana Islands much either, but they launched a plane from there that killed hundreds of thousands and ended a war. Anyway, my point about Israel is the usual suspects seem to smother every Middle East thread with Israeli concerns, as if the life of an Israeli had greater value than another life. Just for the record, more people have died in this latest Syrian uprising than all Israelis that have died in war since Israel came into existence. Anyway, back to the topic, I am much more concerned initialy about internecine warfare by various factions inside Syria than I am about the affect on neighboring countries. Although some of those neighboring countries will be sponsors of factions inside Syria. It's going to just get uglier I fear.

But did you bother to read the TITLE of this topic? Neighboring? Does Syria neighbor itself, is that it?

You seem to be very set on this word NEIGHBOURING, JT. Since I started this thread, maybe I can say that it doesn't matter too much if we talk about Russia, or Saudi.... because whatever action they take will affect the immediate neighbours. All this talk about Hilary Clinton seems to suggest that US is also a NEIGHBOUR. My country (GB) isn't, but I'm still concerned about what happens, as I can foresee mayhem and bloody murder. Come to think of it, there is already mayhem and bloody murder in Syria, so how long will it be before someone interferes.

You seem to be very set on this word NEIGHBOURING, JT. Since I started this thread, maybe I can say that it doesn't matter too much if we talk about Russia, or Saudi.... because whatever action they take will affect the immediate neighbours. All this talk about Hilary Clinton seems to suggest that US is also a NEIGHBOUR. My country (GB) isn't, but I'm still concerned about what happens, as I can foresee mayhem and bloody murder. Come to think of it, there is already mayhem and bloody murder in Syria, so how long will it be before someone interferes.

OK, thanks for that. Well since the USA and Israel are joined at the hip, arguably much closer allies than Russia and Syria ... so of course this whole Syria thing has global implications and is related to the potential world war (Iran) brewing in the region.

but the Russians "will pay a price!" Hilarious Clinton told me so.

What should she say? Again, bias showing. You've been consistently anti-American on this forum.

her diction would have been appropriate during 'cold war' times decades ago. i admit being consistently "anti-any" who/which meddles or tries to meddle, based on an own agenda and based on blatant lies, with the internals of sovereign countries. and a fact is that the U.S. of A. tops the list of those meddlers since decades.

Russia and China have agendas too. as far as Russia is concerned the (mini) naval base in Syria might be on the agenda. but they are trying to teach the "international community" led by the Greatest Nation on Earth™ a tit-for-tat lesson based on what happened in Libya where they abstained to vote and letting some sort of "no-fly resolution" pass which was abused in each and every respect by NATO.

Clinton and Price can rave, rant, spit saliva and utter threats. if they refuse, they refuse. as simple as that.

A tad concerned about Syria sucking up to their buddies in Iran. The "pot" that is the Middle East has just been stirred yet again