My understanding based on reading polling over the years is that over 80 percent demand unconditional right of return for Palestinians into Israel. That is something Israel can never accept because if she did, she would no longer exist. So I interpret anyone with that opinion as a hard liner not interested in peace with Israel.

looking at these polls shouldn't you take into consideration that there is already the third brainwashed generation growing up in misery who doesn't know anything else than (perceived or real) oppression, hardship, shitty living conditions and you name it negatives?

i don't have any Palestinian friends but i have a bunch of very close Jewish friends. some (few) of them are hardliners, e.g. one living in Uruguay, but doing voluntary a full term military service in the IDF and insist on wearing a yarmulke when we are at the beach in Jomtien once a year or spend a couple of hours in a go-go bar.

but even the hardliners among my friends (exceptions prove the rule) do not condone settlements and walls making islands in the West Bank, pardon me... in Judea and Samaria (according to Steely Dan).

Yes I take it into account. Of course the young on both sides are propagandized. One hope I can imagine are some special transformative leaders emerging on both sides who have a real vision of peace and coexistence. Do miracles happen? Glad to hear you know hard liners who oppose the harsher west bank policies but trust me plenty of hard liners do rationalize all that. It's also possible that many who do won't be open about it because they know how awful those policies appear to the world. Anyone who follows Israeli politics will tell you their right wing has gotten stronger and their left wing has almost no power at all now. It's understandable to some degree. The bigger threat is Iran and proxies. Yes I believe that and so do most Israelis.

There will be no peace unless the Palestinian territories and Israel can be united in one state. I know this seems like a pipe-dream, but I cannot see either side of the present divide accepting the other. Many other races, not only the Jews, have no country of their own, the Basques, the Kurds to name the best-known.

Certainly Iran is the biggest threat in the region, largely because it is unpredictable. When (no longer If) the current regime in Syria disintegrates, what will Iran do? Try to absorb it? Just permit chaos on the border? Or go the whole hog, and go for Israel?

There will be no peace unless the Palestinian territories and Israel can be united in one state. I know this seems like a pipe-dream, but I cannot see either side of the present divide accepting the other.

...

I think most people would agree with that now based on current realities. But my conclusion is that there will no peace then. Israel's reason for existence is Zionism, a homeland for the Jewish people. Israel is Zionism and Zionism is Israel. That's basic. It's not modeled after the UK. So I reckon the status quo and likely even worse, which is very bad, or someday Israel may be defeated from an outside force such as Iran and yes that would mean a mass slaughter of Jews. Again.

There will be no peace unless the Palestinian territories and Israel can be united in one state. I know this seems like a pipe-dream, but I cannot see either side of the present divide accepting the other. Many other races, not only the Jews, have no country of their own, the Basques, the Kurds to name the best-known.

Certainly Iran is the biggest threat in the region, largely because it is unpredictable. When (no longer If) the current regime in Syria disintegrates, what will Iran do? Try to absorb it? Just permit chaos on the border? Or go the whole hog, and go for Israel?

Glad you mentioned Syria, with the 17,000 dead and counting. Of course civilian casualties in the tens or even hundreds of thousands are not rare in the region, which should tell you something about the hyper scrutiny Israel gets for a relatively very small number of casualties. In other words the very formation of Israel was a huge blow to the Muslim Ummah and pleas for 'justice' for Palestinians which are never made for say the Kurds show this. There is no two state solution whilst this remains the consensus belief in Islam, and there is certainly no one state solution as the moment any one state democracy had demographics in favour of Muslims then ethnic cleansing would follow. To demonstrate this Bethlehem, Nazareth and even Ramallah were once majority Christian, but now most of the Christians have been driven out, as is now happening in Syria too.

Coming to think of it I wonder what would happen if the Palestinian Christians declared their own state based on the biblical new testament, invented a flag and asked for a right of return for all Christians who were driven out - the Christinians if you will. Would the NGO's and human rights organizations then spring into action criticizing the Palestinians for persecution of this even smaller group? Would terrorist groups blow up civilians in their name and would aid flotillas set sail, I think we should be told.

Many other races, not only the Jews, have no country of their own, the Basques, the Kurds to name the best-known.

There is a big difference. The Jews do have their own country, a thriving economy and one of the best armies in the world. They are not going anywhere.

OTB topics are left pretty much to run unmoderated as your are all expected to behave with a modicum of maturity in here, however if the hateful propaganda postings continue, offenders will reap the rewards.

Please take note.

a CBS 60 minutes report is deleted as hateful propaganda

Need I say more?

It was off very much off topic. Everyone has to follow the rules.

It was off very much off topic. Everyone has to follow the rules.

The statement was made and I quote "There is no two state solution whilst this remains the consensus belief in Islam, and there is certainly no one state solution as the moment any one state democracy had demographics in favour of Muslims then ethnic cleansing would follow. To demonstrate this Bethlehem, Nazareth and even Ramallah were once majority Christian, but now most of the Christians have been driven out,"

The 60 min report demonstrates the above statement to be icorect. and with in that context is very much on topic. I was not the one who opened that can of worms, I was the one who was attempting to close it.

Questioning moderation is also against the rules. We have had big problems in this forum in the past and it was almost discontinued. I suggest that you drop it.

There will be no peace unless the Palestinian territories and Israel can be united in one state. I know this seems like a pipe-dream, but I cannot see either side of the present divide accepting the other. Many other races, not only the Jews, have no country of their own, the Basques, the Kurds to name the best-known.

Certainly Iran is the biggest threat in the region, largely because it is unpredictable. When (no longer If) the current regime in Syria disintegrates, what will Iran do? Try to absorb it? Just permit chaos on the border? Or go the whole hog, and go for Israel?

whole hog and go for Israel IB? do you think the Mullahs are suicidal brain-amputees?

do you think the Mullahs are suicidal brain-amputees?

Iranian President Mahmoud’s Ahmadinejad and the Mullah's obsession with the coming of the Shiite Islamic messiah figure – the 12th Mahdi – is raising concerns that a nuclear-armed Islamic Republic could trigger the kind of global unrest that they envision will set the stage for the end of the world - which is what they want as they all will supposedly go to paradise after that. In other words, yes!

There will be no peace unless the Palestinian territories and Israel can be united in one state. I know this seems like a pipe-dream, but I cannot see either side of the present divide accepting the other. Many other races, not only the Jews, have no country of their own, the Basques, the Kurds to name the best-known.

Certainly Iran is the biggest threat in the region, largely because it is unpredictable. When (no longer If) the current regime in Syria disintegrates, what will Iran do? Try to absorb it? Just permit chaos on the border? Or go the whole hog, and go for Israel?

whole hog and go for Israel IB? do you think the Mullahs are suicidal brain-amputees?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-nuclear-program-designed-to-finish-off-israel-hezbollah-mp-says/

There will be no peace unless the Palestinian territories and Israel can be united in one state. I know this seems like a pipe-dream, but I cannot see either side of the present divide accepting the other. Many other races, not only the Jews, have no country of their own, the Basques, the Kurds to name the best-known.

Certainly Iran is the biggest threat in the region, largely because it is unpredictable. When (no longer If) the current regime in Syria disintegrates, what will Iran do? Try to absorb it? Just permit chaos on the border? Or go the whole hog, and go for Israel?

whole hog and go for Israel IB? do you think the Mullahs are suicidal brain-amputees?

http://www.timesofis...bollah-mp-says/

I am not sure about this reply, Are you serious, are you joking, or are you being sarcastic?

It does not exactly come as a big surprise if you listen to what Ahmadinejad has said over many years about destroying the "Zionist regime.".

"Hezbollah MP Walid Sakariya told Lebanese television this week that the nuclear weapon Iran is allegedly developing is intended to annihilate Israel."

Pertinent Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quotes:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2009/04/questions-about-ahmadinejad-apos-s-famous-quote/9872/

There will be no peace unless the Palestinian territories and Israel can be united in one state. I know this seems like a pipe-dream, but I cannot see either side of the present divide accepting the other. Many other races, not only the Jews, have no country of their own, the Basques, the Kurds to name the best-known.

Certainly Iran is the biggest threat in the region, largely because it is unpredictable. When (no longer If) the current regime in Syria disintegrates, what will Iran do? Try to absorb it? Just permit chaos on the border? Or go the whole hog, and go for Israel?

whole hog and go for Israel IB? do you think the Mullahs are suicidal brain-amputees?

Well, actually, Naam, I think they may be. It's the unpredictability which frightens me.

This topic will be closed for clean up. More than just posts will sent to the bin.

Topic cannot be salvaged.

//Closed//