What To Do When You Live In A Sterile Marriage

[simon43]

Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that my marriage is not working. My wife (aged 35 years) was a good friend whom I married soon after my divorce from my previous wife - the circumstances that led up to that previous divorce were extensively covered in a Thaivisa thread and I do not want to comment on those details.

My current wife is a very good lady, but we clearly have little in common. She is somewhat selfish and appreciates material goods, the good life etc (nothing wrong in that). But this is at severe odds with my own modest lifestyle, where I prefer to also help others who are less fortunate than myself. My wife cannot understand why I want to help another person if there is no financial benefit to be gained.

Our marriage is sterile - there is no romance or sex for several years and we have no children, nor does my wife want kids. My wife is happy for me to work away from home.

What I am interested to understand is whether there is any disadvantage NOT to divorce. I have no plans to marry again and the solution may simply be to remain married and for us to live our separate lives. The act of divorce would be a huge loss of face to my wife, and I would not want to go down that route if it really is not necessary.

In a situation like this, are there any pros and cons to consider to simply living apart, getting a legal separation or getting a divorce? There are no assets to speak of, except our successful small hotel business, which provides a modest but very reliable income.

I have been offered employment in Myanmar which will enable me to spend more time on charitable and humanitarian works, and I would see my starting a new job as the best time to move on from these wasted years, and let my wife look after our hotel and to retain all profits from that small business.

C'est la vie - things could be worse Advise appreciated.

Simon

[TommoPhysicist]

Just slip out the back Jack Simon.

No, seriously the easiest way is just to quietly slip away and don't come back.

Or put up with it and get yourself a 'mia noi' (if you have the money)

No sex for several years ....... bloody hell, I'd be down the soapy after several days.

Edited July 3, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[samsiam]

If you stay married....all future gains also become hers right.....consider the future today and deal with it....I would have left it behind some time ago myself...especially with no kids to consider.

Always sort out your problems now....not some time in the future because who knows what the future holds....it is of no benefit to you......even John Lennon would not let it be.

Edited July 3, 2012 by samsiam

[Mario2008]

Legally, the disadvantage is that you will be repsonsible of providing for eachother, and you could face problems if any debts occour, like a big hospital bill.

Also adultry can lead to a civil lawsuit and claim for damages.

Other then financial liabiltity I can't see any legal reason why one should divorce.

[aussiebebe]

It's none of my business but i can't fathom from the post how you can have little in common with someone who was a good friend, seems paradoxical. The only benefit of not divorcing now would be you can take the job in Myanmar and see how you both feel after a year or so. I read once that a woman, I don't know who, once said 'One husband is much like another, only in different ways' and I think that applies to wives too - as you've said you don't want to remarry, just take your time and look at the positives, like at least your wife is successful businesswoman and not a drinking, gambling, debt-ridden facebook-addict - look on the bright side

[transam]

Difficult one chum. For me l would sever ties as one only lives once and a new life could appear in Burma. Big decision that only you can answer.

[Mobi]

Many upper and middle class Thais - whose marriages have fallen apart - never divorce. Often the husbands go to live with a mia nois and some of them continue to support their wives and kids - but many give them nothing.

Apart from losing face with their respective families, I believe the main reason they have no wish to divorce, is that in the absence of a divorce, there is no legal division of the marital assets. It is only at the point of divorce that a legal settlement has to be made.

Unlike in the west, where a separated husband would be brought to court and made to provide all manner of maintenance for his estranged family, in Thailand, although the laws exists, they are very difficult to enforce.

Even if the wife is prepared to go to court - which is quite rare - the courts would only order a very minimal maintenance arrangement, which the husband could stop after a few weeks. The wife then has to go back to court. For most wives, it just isn't worth the expense and hassle, as the husband can play games for ever more with little fear of judicial sanction.

So it suits many estranged Thai husbands to leave their wives in limbo indefinitely.

As far as the OP is concerned, there are no children and his wife is well provided for by the hotel income. If he seeks to divorce her, he will have to part with 50% of the assets they have acquired together, unless his wife agrees to settle for a lesser amount. This is something he needs to consider.

Against that is the need to 'move on' and start afresh.

Maybe he should consider all this when he is in Burma and if he decides that divorce is the best way forward, he could have a lawyer broach the matter with his wife while he is out of the country and see what she is prepared to settle for.

If she makes silly demands, then put the divorce plans on hold indefinitely.

[Mario2008]

Actually, Thai al doesn't know any alimony. You only split the assets that were acquired duing the marriage and that is it. Only during the marriage you have to support each other.

Only child support can be asked for (and enforced).

[tutsiwarrior]

in my own experience if one is a caring person and their mate is someone without empathy then the relationship is doomed...if there are no kids involved then find a way out...I hesitated fer years and regretted it...

[simon43]

Some good comments. My wife has commented more than once that she doesn't mind if I have flings with other women, so long as she does not find out - and then my dick is duck food. It's the standard 'out of sight out of mind' stance.

Despite the total lack of sex, I have actually been faithful to my wife throughout our marriage, but I'm not really suited to the life of a monk

It's clear that my professional interests are way-different to those of my wife, and there is no demand by her not for me to pursue my interests, although she prefers that I remain in the region (south-east Asia).

Apart from the total lack of sex, and her disinterest in my charitable work and her great interest in a shoe collection larger than Imelda Marcos - our marriage is great! We do not argue or disagree, and she looks after my needs and demands very well, so long as these are not in the bedroom...

If I were working abroad, I doubt very much that she would be successful in any claim over my income/assets, should we divorce at a later stage. As mentioned, our hotel business goes from strength to strength, and she's very happy looking after this successful little business. But after a very rocky romance track-record in Thailand, I really prefer to live alone and be a little selfish about my own needs.

Edited July 5, 2012 by simon43

[meom]

Apart from the total lack of sex, and her disinterest in my charitable work and her great interest in a shoe collection larger than Imelda Marcos - our marriage is great! We do not argue or disagree, and she looks after my needs and demands very well, so long as these are not in the bedroom...

If the marriage is so great why not go see a sex-therapist together?

Not sure they have those in Thailand but if might be worth checking.

[meatboy]

any idea if she is carrying on if she is you could be or might be a sitting target when someone else gets greedy.like you say you cant go on in a relationship without sex,she doesnt care if you carry on but if she finds out she will feed your dick to the ducks i find that a bit strange.i think you should take that job and go when she's not there.she's not a nice lady just a selfish <deleted> get out while your still in one piece.good luck.

[ebcal]

I think you probably have had some talks, since you mention your wife has said it is ok to have flings with other women, as long as she does not find out.

But, still surprised nobody said to first sit down and have a heart to heart with your wife that you are not happy. Maybe others assumed you have done this. If that does nothing, then maybe another talk that you are very unhappy and are considering divorce. Sometimes people dont wake up or appreciate until they have lost or are faced with losing the person. Maybe in your case, stating you are thinking of divorce would do nothing, but at least talk all options.

Have you discussed with her that you would like more romance? Have you tried to be romantic? And dont mean just making advances that you want a romp in the sack, but in other ways, like some things you did when you first met. Dinner dates, etc. Maybe you have tried and she just doesnt appreciate those things any more. And there is also marriage counseling that could be considered.

If all these fail, then I would say to consider whether you want to stay in the relationship or not.

Edited July 7, 2012 by ebcal

[TommoPhysicist]

But, still surprised nobody said to first sit down and have a heart to heart with your wife that you are not happy. Maybe others assumed you have done this.

Most of us have Thai women, and know better than to 'sit down and discuss' anything with them, our ladies would likely see this as a declaration of war.

Edited July 7, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[bangkokburning]

Sparing you the psycho analysis but you know it's dead, hence your post. Don't waste your life a day longer. Move on. I am sure you have had plenty of discussions and she doesn't have as you say clearly - shared interests. She seems to be all about money and comfort.

I will say though when your wife can;t be bothered to give you a piece of ass and welcomes other women into your marriage (prostitutes/dirty) - that is a huge flag for me. She certainly is saying - I am done with sex (and you).

I would garner my financial resources and then offer her whatever you see is fair. That is unless she has contributed to the finances herself.

If you have to leave Thailand, so be it.

[theblether]

I've read the other thread previously Simon, I can be a malevolent b*st*rd when I think someone is trying to be smart with me. Your wife is trying to be smart with you, so here's what I would do.

Put the hotel up for sale on the promise that you are going to buy a bigger one, get the profit / capital in the bank, give her half, and walk away.

Go start your new life in Mynmar and never look back. As for your wife, you will have done the honourable thing by giving her half of the proceeds.

It is no concern of yours as to how much face she will lose, she should have thought about that when she withdrew emotional and physical sustenance.

Harsh? No........the only person being harsh here is you............on yourself. Clean break, and move on.

[simon43]

Thanks for all the good advice. I have been very patient with my wife, but especially the lack of sex is sending me up the wall

I think you probably have had some talks, since you mention your wife has said it is ok to have flings with other women, as long as she does not find out.

No, I have never brought this subject up - she made these comments herself, which is a pretty clear statement that she doesn't want any sex with me...

I can actually appreciate that she may not share my interest in charitable work etc, and the yearning for material goods is something that many (most?) of us would strive for. If my wife thought that by marrying me she would be rolling in money, goods and business that ran by itself, then she made a terrible mistake.

Our hotel is a good little business - just like the previous airport hotel that I owned. Some posters may also recall that I also had 'women' trouble with my previous wife at that hotel business. Luckily, I was able to salvage my half-share of that hotel, but my marriage went south on that one....

I'm beginning to wonder if it's me that's the problem!! My UK marriage went south (many years ago) when my status changed from $ millionaire to 0.1*$ millionaire, but that ex came out of the marriage with a $1 mansion near London with 5 acres of garden and a working vineyard...

So in these 3 relationships, I worked my butt off to create good businesses and income for me and my partner, but there was little or nothing given in return. That really is not fair.

You would have thought that a wife would be over the moon to find a hard-working, non-smoking, non-gambling, non-butterfly husband.... perhaps I need to show her what the alternative could be .. pass me the cigarettes, cards, vodka and bargirl please

Although money has been very tight with our latest hotel, the business is fully occupied every night - even in low season - and I have managed to find funds to enable my wife to complete the part-time degree course that she always wanted to do. By juggling funds, I also enabled her to successfully get a bank loan to purchase a small but brand new house in Ao Nang. And then there is of course the new car that the business has financed for her...

Hmm - sometimes it's good to take a step back to get a better view of the big picture.

As Tommo has commented, there is zero point in sitting down and discussing this with my wife - after all, she is the one who has everything to lose, not me.

Regardless of our situation, I do not have any plans to sell our latest hotel, which still has 18 years left on the leased land agreement (which is in my name only BTW). As the airport continues to expand, so that business will continue to grow, and my wife legally can claim her half-share. So it makes sense simply to equally share the proceeds of the income. I can go off and find another job, hopefully in Myanmar where God knows, the people need help and assistance to improve their lives. I can then make a break from my current relationship.

(BTW, even my ex dug into her pockets to volunteer a few hundred baht to buy colouring books for the poor Burmese kids - but my wife would not..)

But staying legally married to my wife is a good barrier to stop me from falling for the charms of a Burmese woman

Simon

Edited July 8, 2012 by simon43

[brit1984]

How about selling a minority stake in the hotel (up to 49%) to a 3rd party (ideally one of your wife's friends or family)?

You could keep the proceeds from the sale for yourself and tell your wife she can keep the rest of the profit for herself.

Otherwise, once you are in Burma, I have a suspicion your wife will find it difficult to resist the temptation to under report the profit.

With the cash from the sale, you can refocus your attention on other entrepreneurial endeavours (as well as your charity work).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[simon43]

I have a suspicion your wife will find it difficult to resist the temptation to under report the profit.

Happily, that is not possible All room bookings come from online agents, with funds paid directly into my bank account. I manage the agent booking systems with passwords that only I know.

As my ex found out with my previous hotel, trying to cut me out of the business is doomed to failure...

The plus point about my work is that it can be performed via the internet from any location. I find the hotel customers and my wife/hotel staff simply have to look after them during their stay. So living/working alone away from my wife and Thailand will not impact the hotel occupancy level

Simon

[brit1984]

I have a suspicion your wife will find it difficult to resist the temptation to under report the profit.

Happily, that is not possible All room bookings come from online agents, with funds paid directly into my bank account. I manage the agent booking systems with passwords that only I know.

As my ex found out with my previous hotel, trying to cut me out of the business is doomed to failure...

The plus point about my work is that it can be performed via the internet from any location. I find the hotel customers and my wife/hotel staff simply have to look after them during their stay. So living/working alone away from my wife and Thailand will not impact the hotel occupancy level

Simon

She could just create some fake costs, or take cash only for F&B sales, or tell customers they can extend their stay at a discounted rate for cash payment, or tell you that she is sick and needs to pay a manager to do her job. I take every precaution possible to monitor the finances of my bricks-and-mortar businesses (in absentia) but I know if the shop managers wanted to screw me, they could.

The other issue is she could just get bored of it or under-manage it in your own absence (especially if you re-focus your attention on other ventures and do not have time to keep up to date with any developments in the hotel booking system). I think taking some cash out now, even with the sacrifice of accepting a valuation that you feel is low, would be prudent.

You don't necessarily have to sell 49%. You could just sell some (so you are partially de-risked) and keep some so you have still have exposure to the upside (and your wife would at least gain comfort from knowing that you have some skin in the game).

My assumption was that this hotel business represents the lion-share of your assets and hence ensuring you get something out of it (not zero) is crucial. Of course, if you have other significant assets, then avoiding this scenario may be less of a priority, and you might just want to keep it and try to get full value.

[TommoPhysicist]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's me that's the problem!! My UK marriage went south (many years ago) when my status changed from $ millionaire to 0.1*$ millionaire, but that ex came out of the marriage with a $1 mansion near London with 5 acres of garden and a working vineyard...

So in these 3 relationships, I worked my butt off to create good businesses and income for me and my partner, but there was little or nothing given in return. That really is not fair.

It isn't your problem, it's all mens problem.

About half the men I know have provided at least one woman with a house (usually in their home countries)

Just read this story

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1220096--deadbeat-dad-flees-to-philippines-leaving-four-kids-without-support

She got a $1M house, $2,000/month business and $2,500/month maintenance ........ then went back to court for more.

[SOTIRIOS]

...sad, Bro....

....she sounds like a blood-sucking monster.....

....give me the hotel......I have 2 daughters to raise...their mother took everything I had....

(She sees them on weekends if it suits her..and may spend a few hundred baht to feed them)

All my money goes to raising my daughters, as has been for the past 9 years, as my wife stashes her money away

(....You sound like you love everyone, even strangers....but supporting bad people with bad characteristics and bad habits....???....)

Send some 'love' to me and my daughters, will you???

[how241]

If you stay married....all future gains also become hers right.....consider the future today and deal with it....I would have left it behind some time ago myself...especially with no kids to consider.

Always sort out your problems now....not some time in the future because who knows what the future holds....it is of no benefit to you......even John Lennon would not let it be.

Good post.

[SOTIRIOS]

...sad, Bro....

....she sounds like a blood-sucking monster.....

....give me the hotel......I have 2 daughters to raise...their mother took everything I had....

(She sees them on weekends if it suits her..and may spend a few hundred baht to feed them)

All my money goes to raising my daughters, as has been for the past 9 years, as my wife stashes her money away

(....You sound like you love everyone, even strangers....but supporting bad people with bad characteristics and bad habits....???....)

Send some 'love' to me and my daughters, will you???

[samsiam]

No telling what she might do in the future and no matter how much you think you could control it.....something will happen that you cannot.

Does the hotel not allow walkins ??....or local agents she gets to know and they call her up direct ??

I would do as suggested, try to sell 49% to a friend of hers or biz partner and get out now while you can with a smile.....smiles tend to disappear.

The key here might not be to build a new hotel with a burmese partner.....make sure she has her own job or biz first.

[edwinclapham]

Some good comments. My wife has commented more than once that she doesn't mind if I have flings with other women, so long as she does not find out - and then my dick is duck food. It's the standard 'out of sight out of mind' stance.

Despite the total lack of sex, I have actually been faithful to my wife throughout our marriage, but I'm not really suited to the life of a monk

Apart from the total lack of sex, and her disinterest in my charitable work and her great interest in a shoe collection larger than Imelda Marcos - our marriage is great!

"and then my dick is duck food"!! This perpetual "have my cake and eat it" mentality should have been tackled from the word go.

Cut your losses, its not healthy living with your sister/friend whatever!!

[samsiam]

Some good comments. My wife has commented more than once that she doesn't mind if I have flings with other women, so long as she does not find out - and then my dick is duck food. It's the standard 'out of sight out of mind' stance.

Despite the total lack of sex, I have actually been faithful to my wife throughout our marriage, but I'm not really suited to the life of a monk

Apart from the total lack of sex, and her disinterest in my charitable work and her great interest in a shoe collection larger than Imelda Marcos - our marriage is great!

"and then my dick is duck food"!! This perpetual "have my cake and eat it" mentality should have been tackled from the word go.

Cut your losses, its not healthy living with your sister/friend whatever!!

All this talk about ducks liking dick is a concern.

Is it fact or ??

[sirchai]

My current wife is a very good lady, but we clearly have little in common.. She is somewhat selfish and appreciates material goods.

My wife cannot understand why I want to help another person if there is no financial benefit to be gained..

Our marriage is sterile - there is no romance or sex for several years and we have no children, nor does my wife want kids. My wife is happy for me to work away from home.

Dear Simon,

There's only one way to go. Leave her and go on with YOUR life, don't even think about somebody losing face. That's just a Thai cultural problem, the way i see it. Guess you sleep with other girls and she wouldn't even have a problem when you're telling here that, right?

She's got her "farlang", her income and that's all she wanted. Please think about your life now. You can't start a new life when you didn't finish an important episode of your 'old' life.

I'm also helping others when I can, if she can't get that, stop helping her. Sell your hotel, leave her some cash, get divorced, but be careful.

You can hire a killer in my area for around 25,000 baht.

Better you find a way to end this relationship now, considering greed and hate. Wish you the best. Take good care. We all live only once.

Cheers-

Edited July 10, 2012 by sirchai

[maprao]

Circle the wagons with you "interests" in Thailand then move on.

[Sheryl]

But staying legally married to my wife is a good barrier to stop me from falling for the charms of a Burmese woman

Simon

Actually Simon I was biting my tongue from saying more or less exactly that.

3 failed marriages to your credit, you do seem to have a proclivity to rush into things that don't work out.

So that is a plus side to staying legally married. As to negatives...

Should she become pregnant by someone else while still legally married to you, you are legally the father. There rae ways out of that but complicated and I think costly.

And I wouldn't be so sure that nothing can go amiss with the hotel, but that's true even if you divorce if the property is in her name. in fact she might be more likely to be vindictive if you divorce.

Regardless of what yo udo about the legal state of the marriage, if you are going to leave the country it would be wise to sell the hotel and make some sort of settlement with the proceeds a suggested by others, so that you and she have no joint financial interests.