Can Coming To Thailand Make You Bisexual?

[Jingthing]

What about the 'FemBoys' as opposed to the LadyBoys ... how do they fit into the mix or are they considered to be into the same category?

Totally different. Effeminate young male. Gay, bi, or straight. Usually gay.

Is this from a western or Thai perspective?

Gay Thais I know refer to effeminate Thai guys as Ladyboys or actually Katoey even if they are clearly dressed as a male .

Now this might be interesting. My experience is much different. In my experience what I would call mainstream Thai gay men (male gender self identity clear they are into males emotionally and sexually in a homosexual way) are not at all confused about the difference between gay and Kathoey. No way do most of them refer to themselves as LB or Kathoey! It is the larger Thai society including foreigners who are confused.

[Jingthing]

Man,

who really gives a sh1t.

Apparently thousands of people! These ladyboy panic threads are ALWAYS hot!

[Jingthing]

if you took the dress off the ladyboy,cut the hair, and he just ran around acting all (god how can i put this without getting shot down) femme ill use your word, would he be then gay???

and im asking, i dont know

In general no because the core of this is reflected in the internal psychology of the person with the gender identity issue. Gay people do NOT have gender identity issues!

Both have what some would describe as some kind of mental disorder. Because gays made such a fuss about this classification - many psychiatrists changed their view( because of politics) but many still view gays as psychologically imbalanced.

Please don't go there. Gay is OK. Gay is normal. Gay is natural. Gay occurs in many animal species naturally. Gay is not a psychological disease. There are modern times. Please don't drag us back to ignorant times. The greatest cause of mental stress for gay people internationally is homophobia, in other words, external hatred and disapproval translating into low self esteem. That isn't caused by being gay. It's caused by intolerance in societies. Edited August 23, 2012 by Jingthing

[chiangmaikelly]

When I lived in Issan I would pick the ex girlfriends kid up from school. It was a fee paying school so they were quite relaxed with the dress code.

There were ladyboys starting out at around the age of 13 at approximately 1 in every 100 students. This is obviously a very rough guesstimate but I am just trying to paint the picture. These katoeys always stayed in groups of girls and I am sure this is something they are born into and certainly not a phase.

Mind you ,in schools you usually find that the boys who are gay always mix with the girls ,rather than with ,say ,the rugby crowd

Yeah, I'll let the gay quarterback of my high school football team in on that gem.

mind you, you usually find the boys who are gay mix with the girls ,rather than the boxing crowd

any gay boxing friends?

Does anyone really not know about the Thai lady boy boxers??? She is famous all over the world!

Thai "Ladyboy" Kickboxer Is Gender-Bending Knockout http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/03/0325_040325_TVthirdsex.html

Edited August 23, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[thenervoussurgeon]

if you took the dress off the ladyboy,cut the hair, and he just ran around acting all (god how can i put this without getting shot down) femme ill use your word, would he be then gay???

and im asking, i dont know

In general no because the core of this is reflected in the internal psychology of the person with the gender identity issue. Gay people do NOT have gender identity issues!

Both have what some would describe as some kind of mental disorder. Because gays made such a fuss about this classification - many psychiatrists changed their view( because of politics) but many still view gays as psychologically imbalanced.

Please don't go there. Gay is OK. Gay is normal. Gay is natural. Gay occurs in many animal species naturally. Gay is not a psychological disease. There are modern times. Please don't drag us back to ignorant times. The greatest cause of mental stress for gay people internationally is homophobia, in other words, external hatred and disapproval translating into low self esteem. That isn't caused by being gay. It's caused by intolerance in societies.

Please do not take this the wrong way as i have always said ,i dont care about anyones sexuality ,up to them i couldnt care as long as i dont have to watch or join in ,but you will never convince me or many others that being gay and having sex with partners of the same sex is natural and to equate it with the fact that some animals indulge in it ,well they also have sex with junior animals of their species ,monkeys ect ,is that normal ?

once again i am not a homophobe and neither are millions of others who while not caring what two men or women do to each other do not find it natural , and by the way this thread is not about that anyway.

[Jingthing]

I'm going to ignore the predicable sneaky association of homosexuality and pedophilia as you are correct, this thread is not about how homosexuality is natural or not.

These kinds of labeling topics are always going to messy. A number of books have been written about sexuality issues in Thailand, and more books will be written later. We are not going to solve any mysteries here.

But some things are clear.

Thailand is a different culture than the west.

The traditional aspect of Thai culture can "process" the idea of third sex/other category women much more easily than the modern western imported concept of gay men. Gay men in the modern sense are more a threat to traditional Thai values than so called third sex LBs, etc.

That might be a reason that in mainstream Thai culture, LBs and male identified gay identified men are put in the same category boat. That category doesn't rock the boat. Not that LBs are high status. No they are low status but if they know their place they are well tolerated.

So in Thailand we have in Thai culture a mixture of older concepts mixed with the dynamic of globalism, which is slowly changing the labeling here.

This within the real context that most men are all BISEXUAL to a certain degree. (See Kinsey.)

In the west, most feel the pressure to pick a side, and self label for SOCIETAL reasons.

That self labeling pressure is less so in Thailand as there does seem to be a freer bisexuality with Thai man where they don't feel the need so strong to self label. Enjoying M to M sex during a period of life, typically younger life, doesn't mean a person is necessarily gay for life or EVER self labels as either gay or LB. (In Thailand, or anywhere.)

Some might say the western concept of hard core labeling and the pressure of picking a side is a negative influence on Thai culture and they may well be right!

Edited August 23, 2012 by Jingthing

[thenervoussurgeon]

It was not a sneaky referance to homosexuality and pedophelia ,you brought up the fact that old chesnut that animals of the same sex roger each other and i pointed out that they also roger junior animals ,that does not make it right and also i hope that most of us have risen above the level of animals.

as for Kinsey and his theory that we are all a bit bisexual ,he can speak for himself not me as i can assure you i have no interest in other men whatsoever (dont you just love these experts)

[Jingthing]

It was not a sneaky referance to homosexuality and pedophelia ,you brought up the fact that old chesnut that animals of the same sex roger each other and i pointed out that they also roger junior animals ,that does not make it right and also i hope that most of us have risen above the level of animals.

as for Kinsey and his theory that we are all a bit bisexual ,he can speak for himself not me as i can assure you i have no interest in other men whatsoever (dont you just love these experts)

Associating homosexuality with pedophilia is something hate groups do. I did find your argument sleazy and you are not going to change my opinion, so I suggest you let it go.

Kinsey didn't say ALL men were bisexual. He said there was a RANGE. A minority are almost entirely homo or hetero. On this scale, we are indeed opposites. I hardly think that you, one person, is totally straight, proves anything at all in the scientific field of sexuality.

Edited August 24, 2012 by metisdead

[Johnniey]

Jing - this thread is not about gays. Why are you so defensive? No wonder they haven't made you a moderator.

It's not normal for men to be sexually attracted to ladyboys and it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

As many males are to some degree born bisexual - according to some knowledgeable scientists, it's a lot more normal for a man to be attracted to a ladyboy, So the men here attracted to ladyboys are bisexual.

[Chopperboy]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of thinking? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

Edited August 23, 2012 by Chopperboy

[Johnniey]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I knew a few drag queens in San Francisco and they were 100% GAY. They dressed as men part of the time and as women the rest of the time, but they were GAY and considered themselves to be so. I see no reason why most ladyboys are any different from their Western counterparts.

Couple things: There is no widely recognized concept of a third gender in the West, unlike many parts of Asia (including India, Philippines, etc). Therefore there is simply no place to fit in for acceptance and support, other than the gay scene.

Your theory on a "third sex" is interesting, but, if true, it would confirm that men who have sex with them are not heterosexuals as heterosexuals are sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.

Quite possible; I also don't think you'd call them 100% straight. But they're certainly not bi or gay, which requires being (also) attracted to masculine features.

[chiangmaikelly]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

Since the 1970s, the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions globally is that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation. Somewhere along the line Johnniey you missed your classes.

[Chopperboy]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

That's still 140 Million people if it was only 2%!! - likely its higher at least 3% in the west.

in surveys around 60% of Thai men report having same sex relations at some point in their lives so is that normal?

[Mosha]

Did he kiss the gay steward on the flight?

[chiangmaikelly]

Did he kiss the gay steward on the flight?

Don't you mean the lady boy flight attendants?

[Johnniey]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

That's still 140 Million people if it was only 2%!! - likely its higher at least 3% in the west.

in surveys around 60% of Thai men report having same sex relations at some point in their lives so is that normal?

60% is normal yes - but that is not Gay but bisexual.

[chiangmaikelly]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

That's still 140 Million people if it was only 2%!! - likely its higher at least 3% in the west.

in surveys around 60% of Thai men report having same sex relations at some point in their lives so is that normal?

60% is normal yes - but that is not Gay but bisexual.

So bisexual is normal? What class taught you that in school? I am serious. Or did you figure out all these things on your own? Since behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions globally teach that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation?

[Johnniey]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

Since the 1970s, the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions globally is that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation. Somewhere along the line Johnniey you missed your classes.

Did you study English? Do you know the definition of "variation"? Normal variation is an oxymoron.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Johnniey

[chiangmaikelly]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

Since the 1970s, the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions globally is that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation. Somewhere along the line Johnniey you missed your classes.

Did you study English? Do you know the definition of "variation"?

Tell us what is the definition of "Normal Variation?"

[Gaccha]

The last 2 pages of the thread revolves around the conflation of meanings in the word 'normal'.

Simply because something is what the majority does, does not necessarily make it what is right or natural. The implicit meaning of natural in the word normal is creating the 2 pages of tension. This is a very famous point done to death in philosophy.

Yet there is more to it. The assumption made is that unlike 'gay'--since this thread manifestly proves this point--the word 'straight' is conceptually at some core level definable to find the majority of people fall within it....

The vanilla sex implied in 'straight' is an extreme minority sport. Most want more; they want to fondle breasts, or play with whips or fist, or whatever.... But they are disciplined by extraordinary levels of social norms to at least appear to be 'straight'.

And this brings us back to ladyboys.... If the male desire is towards cute looks and soft whiteskin, and not focused on the genitalia, then the ladyboy is a perfect target. If the genitalia comes first then a beached whale in Bradford is preferable.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Since the 1970s, the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions globally is that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation. Somewhere along the line Johnniey you missed your classes.

Did you study English? Do you know the definition of "variation"? Normal variation is an oxymoron.

LOL.. and did you study anything? It means that if you have a random sample group of sufficient size, and you found that *everybody* in that group was straight, and exclusively had sex with women in their lifetime, then that would be an abnormal result.

[chiangmaikelly]

it's not normal for men to to be sexually attracted to other men. It's now morally acceptable for gays but certainly not normal - I believe around 2% of the population.

Not normal, who says YOU?

Ask yourself this - are you really compatible with women? do you understand them? do you have the same interests? the same way of communicating? then tell us which is normal and which is forced ?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote "not normal to be SEXUALLY attracted".

And yea I say so. If you think 2% is normal I assume you never did maths at school.

Since the 1970s, the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions globally is that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation. Somewhere along the line Johnniey you missed your classes.

Did you study English? Do you know the definition of "variation"? Normal variation is an oxymoron.

Data will always show variation. One of the key questions is whether the variation is normal for the process or is unexpected, indicating that something special or out of the ordinary is happening. For example, improving the variation in travel time to work would require a major change: using different roads, departing at a different time, changing the mode of transportation to a motor bike, or a more drastic change, such as change of residence. Normal variation is not an oxymoron.

[Ulysses G.]

I knew a few drag queens in San Francisco and they were 100% GAY. They dressed as men part of the time and as women the rest of the time, but they were GAY and considered themselves to be so. I see no reason why most ladyboys are any different from their Western counterparts.

Couple things: There is no widely recognized concept of a third gender in the West, unlike many parts of Asia (including India, Philippines, etc). Therefore there is simply no place to fit in for acceptance and support, other than the gay scene.

Your theory on a "third sex" is interesting, but, if true, it would confirm that men who have sex with them are not heterosexuals as heterosexuals are sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.

Quite possible; I also don't think you'd call them 100% straight. But they're certainly not bi or gay, which requires being (also) attracted to masculine features.

There is no such requirement, but the VAST majority of lady boys are obviously men dressed as women and many of them have a penis which is certainly a "masculine feature."

[Johnniey]

Data will always show variation. One of the key questions is whether the variation is normal for the process or is unexpected, indicating that something special or out of the ordinary is happening. For example, improving the variation in travel time to work would require a major change: using different roads, departing at a different time, changing the mode of transportation to a motor bike, or a more drastic change, such as change of residence. Normal variation is not an oxymoron.

http://www.pqsystems.com/qualityadvisor/DataAnalysisTools/variation.php

You sure know what you're talking about.

[chiangmaikelly]

Data will always show variation. One of the key questions is whether the variation is normal for the process or is unexpected, indicating that something special or out of the ordinary is happening. For example, improving the variation in travel time to work would require a major change: using different roads, departing at a different time, changing the mode of transportation to a motor bike, or a more drastic change, such as change of residence. Normal variation is not an oxymoron.

http://www.pqsystems...s/variation.php

You sure know what you're talking about.

Well I hope you have learned something, like the definition of, normal variation and the fact that it is not an oxymoron. Better you look up some words before trying to change their meaning. Oh by the way did you apologize for being wrong? Because you are wrong.

[RogueLeader]

Actually, I think it if you're attracted to a woman with short hair, you're gay. If you like a girl who wears pants, you're gay. gay. gay. gay. gay.

If you're attracted to this girl with long hair, you'r straight:

Where are you, and how come it's still 1958 there?

[partington]

Data will always show variation. One of the key questions is whether the variation is normal for the process or is unexpected, indicating that something special or out of the ordinary is happening. For example, improving the variation in travel time to work would require a major change: using different roads, departing at a different time, changing the mode of transportation to a motor bike, or a more drastic change, such as change of residence. Normal variation is not an oxymoron.

http://www.pqsystems...s/variation.php

You sure know what you're talking about.

You don't though.

Hum Mutat. 2008 Dec;29(12):1392-404.

A comprehensive analysis of normal variation and disease-causing mutations in the human DSPP gene.

McKnight DA, Suzanne Hart P, Hart TC, Hartsfield JK, Wilson A, Wright JT, Fisher LW.

Source

Craniofacial and Skeletal Diseases Branch, National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research (NIDCR), National Institutes of Health (NIH), Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA.

[elliss]

normal variation , is the acceptable deviation , in a natural distribution.

and thats that .

please keep this thread on topic ,about gays , ladyboys, transvestites ,etc

as i can only read , when my teerak , is outside , having her daily yak yak, with her friends ,

about what ?, you guessed it farangs ,both jai dee, and cheap charlies jai dam.[ ouch ]

i should know

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Actually, I think it if you're attracted to a woman with short hair, you're gay. If you like a girl who wears pants, you're gay. gay. gay. gay. gay.

If you're attracted to this girl with long hair, you'r straight:

Where are you, and how come it's still 1958 there?

Please remove my name from your quote I did not write that. It was WinnieTheKhwai.

Thanks

Yes, and it was sarcasm at that.