Partner Problems ..Return To Thailand....Or Not ?

[nextmove]

I need a bit of advice regarding a problem that has occurred out of the blue.

My girlfriend/ long term partner was about to join me in the UK last week but was stopped at Thai immigration and subsequently arrested.

She is now being held in prison whilst awaiting a court appearence in connection with what I guess is a fraud offence. Whether this is a criminal fraud case or a civil one I am yet to find out.

Now some background information. We have been together for approx 7 years and have a young daughter who is with me here in the UK.

For the first time I went back to the UK alone with my daughter in the spring. My partner who has a long term visit visa for the UK stayed behind in Thailand due to her father being very sick(he has a heart condition).

In all this time we have travelled abroad extensively as a family with no problems so when I got the news from Thailand regarding her detenton it was indeed a shock.

From what little information i can ascertain(i am speaking with her sister) i understand that the nature of the charge is that she took money from people on the promise that they might get some work in the UK which didn't happen. Somebody has gone to the police about this and the rest is history. I understand that an Aunt and her Mother have also been implicated and are in police custody. In my partners case i am told that the sum involved is relatively minor...maybe 30,000 thb.

Now for my questions:-

1) I want to return to Thailand and try and sort this mess out but am paranoid the police might try and set me up. There is no evidence against me but since I am the unmarried partner of the accused i am fearful they might try and say i must have been involved. Let me clarify here,I am 100 % innocent and had no idea of what was going on. I do not speak or understand Thai and this is something that was being conducted without my knowledge,I'm guessing in her own village in the North East while we lived in the South of Thailand and spent the summer in the UK.

The worst senario here is that our daughter could be left without a mother or a father which is something I cannot risk or allow to happen.

Is it possible to get a lawyer to ascertain whether I have an arrest warrant or am wanted for questioning over this matter?

In my heart of hearts I do not think I should have a problem but TIT as they say and I cannot afford to take chances where my daughter is concerned.

2) Concerning my partner. Is there a possibility she would be able to get bail with the help of a lawyer? For this purpose I have to assume that the fraud is relatively minor.I understand that court cases can take months whether the defendant is guilty or innocent

3) If this case comes under civil fraud then is there a possibility that she may avoid a jail sentence and be ordered to pay the money back?

I realise that much of what i have asked is not for the ''general layman'' but hope maybe there is someone out there with Thai legal knowledge that might point me in the right direction.

Any other feedback,perhaps somebody has found themselves in a similar situation?, would be very appreciated....my brain is in overload at the moment... as already mentioned this has come like a bolt out of the blue...quite literally.

Edited August 23, 2012 by nextmove

[theblether]

First of all stay in the UK, don't jump into the Lions mouth. Your daughters well being is paramount here and she won't be served well with having 2 parents in jail.

Just stay put.....others will comment on the legalities.

Edited August 23, 2012 by theblether

[trainman34014]

Understand your concerns of course but I would stay right where you are. She is a Thai national, has been arrested in Thailand under a Thai law for an offense committed in Thailand which you knew nothing about. If you return it could muddy the water as they could say that you knew what she was doing and you could end up in deep doo doo yourself. Think about your child and sit tight. After all your partner of many years has let you down flat by doing something so stupid just for a few bucks, and this will most likely prevent her from ever returning to the UK once she has this on her record.

Sorry for the mess you are in with it all but there is only one person to blame and one person who should take responsibility for their own actions.

[KeyserSoze01]

I agree with the other comments about staying put and taking care of your daughter.

Lawyer up and see if you can get your wife out on bail, then take on the charges as they come. You have to face the possibility that your wife/gf is complicit in these actions, so be prepared to ante up the baht to get her off. You know how things work in Thailand.

[TommoPhysicist]

Stay in the UK with your daughter.

(Don't send the gf any money)

I'm always deeply suspicious of these stories, this could be a scam to get money out of you, it could be a scam to get your daughter back to Thailand, where you never see her again. Or maybe your gf is just a bad sort and you never noticed.

Edited August 23, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[soi41]

Stay in the UK with your daughter.

(Don't send the gf any money)

I'm always deeply suspicious of these stories, this could be a scam to get money out of you, it could be a scam to get your daughter back to Thailand, where you never see her again. Or maybe your gf is just a bad sort and you never noticed.

Don't be so mean Tommo, who is going to pay for the pickup-truck for Somchai (the brother!) now ??

[thaicbr]

Also I think it has to be a bit more to it if it had gone on the immigration computer. As in a warrant had been served. Possibly for human trafficking which is what it sounds like. Be very wary until you know more. By all means instruct a lawyer to find out whats going on. More for your piece of mind than anything else. I wish you all good luck.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[transam]

Stay in the UK with your daughter.

(Don't send the gf any money)

I'm always deeply suspicious of these stories, this could be a scam to get money out of you, it could be a scam to get your daughter back to Thailand, where you never see her again. Or maybe your gf is just a bad sort and you never noticed.

Blimey, we agree on something.

OP, do not think we are being negative but some of us have seen some serious sh_t that beggars belief, so keep your mind/eyes fully open.

[colinneil]

Stay in england mate, sounds very fishy to me, i had a similar story from my ex wife turned out to be b.....it. look after your daughter she is your number 1 priority now. hope it turns out ok for you best of luck.

[nextmove]

Understand your concerns of course but I would stay right where you are. She is a Thai national, has been arrested in Thailand under a Thai law for an offense committed in Thailand which you knew nothing about. If you return it could muddy the water as they could say that you knew what she was doing and you could end up in deep doo doo yourself. Think about your child and sit tight. After all your partner of many years has let you down flat by doing something so stupid just for a few bucks, and this will most likely prevent her from ever returning to the UK once she has this on her record.

Sorry for the mess you are in with it all but there is only one person to blame and one person who should take responsibility for their own actions.

Yes trainman... I agree with everything you say. She has been stupid and naive beyond all belief to think she could get away with it. I am livid and in truth right now do not see a future for us as a couple...it is just that she is the mother of my daughter and knowing her as I do can testify she is not all bad.We had 7 good years without the hint of a problem but I guess somebody or something put an idea into her head and like so many others in the past greed got the better of her. I do not really want to pass total judgement until I hear more about the facts... I just feel some sense of duty to try and help if I can. ...7 years has to count for something in ones emotions. Despite this,I will let the dust settle for now as others have advised. I will not even send any money for fear that even this might be used to try and implicate me.

Edited August 23, 2012 by nextmove

[beano2274]

Would she have to apply for another visa?

If so, then she must put this incident on the form, which might cause her problems.

Stay put, get a lawyer on it and communicate from afar to the lawyer, do not show your face in Thailand, for your child's sake

[nextmove]

Stay in the UK with your daughter.

(Don't send the gf any money)

I'm always deeply suspicious of these stories, this could be a scam to get money out of you, it could be a scam to get your daughter back to Thailand, where you never see her again. Or maybe your gf is just a bad sort and you never noticed.

Blimey, we agree on something.

OP, do not think we are being negative but some of us have seen some serious sh_t that beggars belief, so keep your mind/eyes fully open.

I understand where you are coming from chaps regarding the money etc but only a few months earlier my ''wife'' signed a paper allowing me to return to the UK with my daughter. She was about to return to the UK and we already had our return tickets to Thailand booked for October. So she was going to get her daughter back to Thailand in 2 months anyway and had the chance of a break in the UK.

I have also checked with the airline who confirmed that she had checked in for her flight but was then stopped at Thai immigration ( as per airline computer records) so I'm as sure as sure could be that she is being held for something of a serious nature...its just a question of what for...and that is where I have to take the word of her sister.

[chiangmaikelly]

Take your time. She will be in touch telling you how much money she needs soon. Relax. All the lawyers here are the same as lawyers everywhere and not to be trusted. Don't worry. Soon you will know how much. Then you can post again and we will adivse you if the price is normal or too high.

[robblok]

What i don't understand is that you want to stop with your wife over this. Yes she is in the wrong and yes its stupid and dangerous for your future. But she did not do it to hurt you. She was just stupid.

[GuestHouse]

Stopped from leaving the country due to a private debt?!

OK if she had robbed a gold shop/bank and was wanted for a criminal offence, then maybe she might get stopped at the airport, but a private debt, I doubt it very much.

Get name and address of the prison she is supposed to be locked up in. Tell your sister-in-law that you are going to get a friend to visit your wife for you.

My guess is that when you start asking for hard facts that you can check the story will change.

[GuestHouse]

so I'm as sure as sure could be that she is being held for something of a serious nature...its just a question of what for...and that is where I have to take the word of her sister.

You are not sure of anything and you do not have to take the word of the sister - see above.

[nextmove]

so I'm as sure as sure could be that she is being held for something of a serious nature...its just a question of what for...and that is where I have to take the word of her sister.

You are not sure of anything and you do not have to take the word of the sister - see above.

What I am saying is that the airline confirmed that she was stopped at immigration from leaving the country. So presumeably she has done something that is considered ''reasonably serious'' or serious enough to stop her leaving the country.

I agree with you regarding the sister and whether she is telling the truth...I have my eyes fully open on that one. ...but for now at least she is my only contact.

[brit1984]

Very sorry to hear this story, sounds like a horrible situation to be in. Without knowing the specifics of the case (and maybe even with them), nobody here will be able to advise you properly on the legalities. Suffice to say (as others have already said) you absolutely must stay out of Thailand. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about your wife's guilt either (she may well have been unjustly implicated by her "friends" / family back home).

You should hire a reputable Thai lawyer and (if your wife does not have access to financial assets in Thailand) start making any necessary financial arrangements (e.g. move cash from savings / offshore accounts into instantly accessible current accounts if necessary). Maybe even transfer some cash to Thailand if you have an account there. I haven't had any run ins with the law here but from what I have been told there is sometimes a price to end the legal proceeding and that price can increase fairly rapidly.

[nextmove]

Stopped from leaving the country due to a private debt?!

OK if she had robbed a gold shop/bank and was wanted for a criminal offence, then maybe she might get stopped at the airport, but a private debt, I doubt it very much.

Get name and address of the prison she is supposed to be locked up in. Tell your sister-in-law that you are going to get a friend to visit your wife for you.

My guess is that when you start asking for hard facts that you can check the story will change.

Now there is an outside chance that I might be able to get an old friend to do just that.

But assuming he does visit how much information will the authorities give to a falang stranger regarding a particular case?

[chiangmaikelly]

I can see few of you ever play poker.

[theblether]

I can see few of you ever play poker.

We don't play poker with childrens lives.

Trust me CMKelly..........there are plenty of hard nosed cynics among us.......we know how to game play.

[chiangmaikelly]

I can see few of you ever play poker.

We don't play poker with childrens lives.

Trust me CMKelly..........there are plenty of hard nosed cynics among us.......we know how to game play.

Bets? A game of poker is being played. As I read it the child is OK in the UK. Leave it that way. Your position is stronger if it is not known just how much you care or how nervous you are.

Edited August 23, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[nextmove]

What i don't understand is that you want to stop with your wife over this. Yes she is in the wrong and yes its stupid and dangerous for your future. But she did not do it to hurt you. She was just stupid.

Well I did state above that ''I am livid and in truth right now do not see a future for us as a couple'' and believe me that is how you feel when something is sprung on you like this...it's more for the lack of thought she has shown for our future and our daughter than anything else and also the uneasy thought that perhaps I really never knew the girl and what might happen in the future if ...bla bla...

However what I feel right now will probably not bear any relation to what I feel in a few weeks or so. I need the dust to settle and I need more info..I have also clarified above that I need more facts before I pass total judgement and I have clearly stated that I still have emotional ties and a sense of duty towards my wife after 7 good years together.

[GuestHouse]

Stopped from leaving the country due to a private debt?!

OK if she had robbed a gold shop/bank and was wanted for a criminal offence, then maybe she might get stopped at the airport, but a private debt, I doubt it very much.

Get name and address of the prison she is supposed to be locked up in. Tell your sister-in-law that you are going to get a friend to visit your wife for you.

My guess is that when you start asking for hard facts that you can check the story will change.

Now there is an outside chance that I might be able to get an old friend to do just that.

But assuming he does visit how much information will the authorities give to a falang stranger regarding a particular case?

The idea is not to really get a friend to visit, though that in itself might not be a bad idea, - The point is to ask for hard facts that you can check.

Immigration might have stopped her for a number of reasons, her passport might have been questioned, she might have lost some of her paperwork between check-in and immigration, she might have been abusive, drunk, the list goes on.

Get some hard facts from your sister-in-law that you can check, and if the story starts to change, or she suddenly can't tell you where your g/f is locked up then don't start looking for excuses on her behalf.

With regards to coming back to Thailand - I think that would be dumb on a whole host of fronts.

First and foremost you are legally back home with your daughter - if you come back to Thailand with your daughter permission for you to leave can be withheld and then you are at the mercy of your g/f giving you permission.

Secondly, if there is indeed a crime or a debt to be settled, the appearance of a foreigner on the scene in possession of a worried look and under the influence of a wallet full of money, then things will absolutely start to cost more money.

My advice is your g/f got herself in this mess, you and your daughter are safely out of harm's way, your g/f has clearly been hiding something from you - stay where you are until you start getting some facts that you can independently check.

[brit1984]

What i don't understand is that you want to stop with your wife over this. Yes she is in the wrong and yes its stupid and dangerous for your future. But she did not do it to hurt you. She was just stupid.

Well I did state above that ''I am livid and in truth right now do not see a future for us as a couple'' and believe me that is how you feel when something is sprung on you like this...it's more for the lack of thought she has shown for our future and our daughter than anything else and also the uneasy thought that perhaps I really never knew the girl and what might happen in the future if ...bla bla...

However what I feel right now will probably not bear any relation to what I feel in a few weeks or so. I need the dust to settle and I need more info..I have also clarified above that I need more facts before I pass total judgement and I have clearly stated that I still have emotional ties and a sense of duty towards my wife after 7 good years together.

Is she your girlfriend or wife?

[GuestHouse]

One other point, if your g/f is really locked up then you need to consider the possibility that her incarceration will continue, in which case you need to think about applying for full custody of your child in your home jurisdiction.

If your g/f is not really locked up, then you definitely need to be applying for full custody of your child.

[submaniac]

OP=Just hire a lawyer. A reputable group like Tilleke & Gibbons. They can go down to the jail and talk to her to see what happened. They can talk to the police to see what she is actually charged with. They can get to the truth of this matter. Right now, you don't know diddley squat. You don't want to be poking your nose in something you don't know about. You will not know the truth unless an independent third party that is loyal to you gets to the bottom of it.

[Beetlejuice]

To the OP:

Firstly your girlfriend would not have been stopped by Immigration at the airport for owing someone a debt, or for not honouring a contract, not in a million years, which is a civil case. And if she had been arrested at the airport and has now been incarcerated awaiting trial, than that’s criminal and she must have committed a very serious criminal offence and been high up on the list in order to be on the wanted list at the airport.

Some questions:

How do you know your girlfriend has been arrested, imprisoned and that this is not a scam?

If you and this woman have been together for 7 years and have a child, how did you not notice that she is of shady character in the past? Or as you claim, had no idea what was going on? Because people don’t just transform into serious criminal offenders over night.

These are the same questions the police are going to ask and I have no doubts that you will be a suspect, especially considering that the alleged crime is UK related.

A few options here:

If you had nothing to do with these criminal activaties and all this has come as a complete surprise to you, than you have nothing to fear by returning to Thailand, if you still love and wish to support your girlfriend.

If you are connected with these criminal activities, or want to write the girlfriend off as a lost cause, than as some posters have already mentioned, best to stay out of Thailand.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[arthurwait]

Stay in the UK with your daughter.

(Don't send the gf any money)

I'm always deeply suspicious of these stories, this could be a scam to get money out of you, it could be a scam to get your daughter back to Thailand, where you never see her again. Or maybe your gf is just a bad sort and you never noticed.

Blimey, we agree on something.

OP, do not think we are being negative but some of us have seen some serious sh_t that beggars belief, so keep your mind/eyes fully open.

I understand where you are coming from chaps regarding the money etc but only a few months earlier my ''wife'' signed a paper allowing me to return to the UK with my daughter. She was about to return to the UK and we already had our return tickets to Thailand booked for October. So she was going to get her daughter back to Thailand in 2 months anyway and had the chance of a break in the UK.

I have also checked with the airline who confirmed that she had checked in for her flight but was then stopped at Thai immigration ( as per airline computer records) so I'm as sure as sure could be that she is being held for something of a serious nature...its just a question of what for...and that is where I have to take the word of her sister.

What was the reason for this ?

[Phronesis]

Ask the sister (or another intermediary) to visit the police and ask if your wife has been formally charged. If no then she should be released after the maximum permissible period for police questioning under Thai law.

If she has been formally charged, have your intermediary request a written copy of the charge(s) (the charge sheet).

This document can then be scanned at an internet cafe and emailed to you.

You can then take it to a Thai translation provider in your city.

Once you have the charge(s) spelled out for you in English you can then seek Thai legal assistance (if necessary).

Call six (or more) Thai lawyers. The first consultation is always free. Use skype to minimise your call costs.

Tell each lawyer the nature of the charge(s) and then ask how, if you engage him or her, they propose to move forward to resolve the matter and their estimation of the costs.

After these initial six free consultations you will have a better understanding of the problem at hand. If need be, you can then select and engage the lawyer who best answered you initial questions, speaks acceptable english, and quoted a fair price.

Stay calm and focussed and always remember that it is impossible to engineer a solution until you have properly defined the problem.