My experience of Iranians - and it is limited to those that live, work or travel overseas, is that they are as charming and open-minded as anyone I could hope to meet. I've never tried to provoke them with questions regarding their affinity or otherwise for semites (apparently anti-semitism doesn't include arabs *).

SC

* An appalling piece of linguistic discrimination of which we should all be ashamed

Yes I like the overseas Iranians I have met as well. I consider your comment about the definition of anti-semitism to be silly. It's about Jews. There are other words that relate to Arabs and Muslims.

My experience of Iranians - and it is limited to those that live, work or travel overseas, is that they are as charming and open-minded as anyone I could hope to meet. I've never tried to provoke them with questions regarding their affinity or otherwise for semites (apparently anti-semitism doesn't include arabs *).

SC

* An appalling piece of linguistic discrimination of which we should all be ashamed

Yes I like the overseas Iranians I have met as well. I consider your comment about the definition of anti-semitism to be silly. It's about Jews. There are other words that relate to Arabs and Muslims.

My apologies for the digression. And I had hoped to keep religion out of the discussion.

SC

My experience of Iranians is confined to dock workers and attendant clerical staff. We used to carry halal-killed mutton from Geelong (OZ) up to Bandar Shapour and the guys we met there were the nicest people you could imagine. They became a bit of a nuisance after the revolution as they were always trying to blag beer

Totally agree with the last few posts.

There is a lrge community of expatriate Iranians in Cambridge. I was staying with one of them for the first few months of this year. Most are in contact with their relatives still in Iran, a lot visit every year or two, although it is a hassle. Their families still in Iran are not the fanatics one reads about in the Daily Mail, Huffington Post or whatever. That is just the rhetoric of the few who seized power when Jimmy Carter sold the Shah down the river and lost the staunchest ally America had in the Middle East.

In my time there - up to Feb. 1979 - there were thousands of university students sent to the US every year who returned home with a very pro-US view of the world. No longer does this happen. Stupid, stupid Carter.

Here's a thought....

Which represents a greater threat to regional and world security.....

A. A nuclear equipped Iran.

B. An Israeli attempt to pre-empt the above by bombing Iranian nuclear facilities (supported or not by the USAF).

Are you for real? Allowing Iran to develop nukes with the mad Mullahs in charge would be absolutely insane. They must be stopped by any means neccesary.

A.

Are you for real? Allowing Iran to develop nukes with the mad Mullahs in charge would be absolutely insane. They must be stopped by any means neccesary.

You sound like Arnett's mythical source:

"we had to destroy the village in order to save it"...just writ large with nukes rather than napalm!

Mad Mullahs or otherwise, MAD (mutually assured destruction) has a sobering impact on folks.

I suggest you Google the Iranian government produced video on the 12th Mahdi. MAD might suit the Mad Mullah's needs

Are you for real? Allowing Iran to develop nukes with the mad Mullahs in charge would be absolutely insane. They must be stopped by any means neccesary.

No doubt the first working nuke Iran gets its hands on will be lobbed right into Israel and thus WW3 ensues.

Are you for real? Allowing Iran to develop nukes with the mad Mullahs in charge would be absolutely insane. They must be stopped by any means neccesary.

No doubt the first working nuke Iran gets its hands on will be lobbed right into Israel and thus WW3 ensues.

I agree, repeated announcements by the theocracy that they want Israel wiped of the map are just a bit of a laugh.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would agree that Iran with Nukes is morbidly stupid. What a sight to see these fanatics storming Embassies with tactical nukes...

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would agree that Iran with Nukes is morbidly stupid. What a sight to see these fanatics storming Embassies with tactical nukes...

and sprinkling Plutonium on Burgers in McDonalds

It's a way of maximising disturbance in the area without getting too directly involved.

No, it's a way of keeping lines of supply open to its terrorist wing, Hezbollah.

A Sunni government would essentially provide a natural buffer between the burgeoning Persian empire and Lebanon.

It's a way of maximising disturbance in the area without getting too directly involved.

No, it's a way of keeping lines of supply open to its terrorist wing, Hezbollah.

A Sunni government would essentially provide a natural buffer between the burgeoning Persian empire and Lebanon.

have a look at the map and then tell us again about Iranian supply lines to Hezbollah.

I bet that Obama is getting heartburn from this ad.

.

So is a USA-Iran war coming or not? If I had to bet, I would say yes, probably early next year. I think there is nothing, absolutely nothing that will stop the Iranian push towards nuclear weapons short of military action.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-needs-to-discuss-whats-at-stake-in-iran-war/2012/09/28/44530a8a-fd34-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_story.html

I hope that the US has got the sense to stay out of it; they have made two major blunders in recent years, in Iraq (WMD my xxxx) and Afghanistan (the invader's graveyard since the early 19th century). Israel is perfectly capable of dealing with Iran by itself.

If the US invades, Syria (whichever side is uppermost) will come in with its chemical weapons arsenal.... NATO will get involved, maybe Putin backing Iran, and we're looking at WW3.

Somehow the conflict has to be localised.

If Israel attacks unilaterally, Iran will likely go after U.S. targets as well. I don't think it is actually true that Israel has the military capability to retard the Iranian weapons program as well as the U.S. Iran is not Iraq. Different situations are different situations.

(WMD my xxxx)

We know Saddam had them because they were used against both Iran and the Kurds. We also know he had them because both the US and UK governments name was on the invoice. We know some were exported because they were intercepted (the large shipment on its way to Yemen springs to mind) so the real issue is where are they now?

As far as war with Iran, no rational person welcomes such a thing. However, I do think clear headed people have concluded two things:

Iran wants at least the capability of making weaponized nukes very fast and they are well on the way of achieving that goal

Sanctions will not stop them from meeting that goal

So if the west and its allies are serious about stopping a nuclear Iran, war is the option. Is it worth it? Who knows?

As far as war with Iran, no rational person welcomes such a thing. However, I do think clear headed people have concluded two things:

Iran wants at least the capability of making weaponized nukes very fast and they are well on the way of achieving that goal

Sanctions will not stop them from meeting that goal

So if the west and its allies are serious about stopping a nuclear Iran, war is the option. Is it worth it? Who knows?

Sums it up well JT

I don't think it is actually true that Israel has the military capability to retard the Iranian weapons program as well as the U.S.

I agree. If the US really intends to stop Iran's nuclear program, they need to, at the least, give Israel top of the line bunker busters, but to really decimate the nuclear program, long term, they should probably make it a joint mission with as much firepower as possible.

(WMD my xxxx)

We know Saddam had them because they were used against both Iran and the Kurds. We also know he had them because both the US and UK governments name was on the invoice. We know some were exported because they were intercepted (the large shipment on its way to Yemen springs to mind) so the real issue is where are they now?

I understand WMD to be nuclear weapons, not chemical and biological. Yes, indeed Saddam had, and used chemical weapons. But then Asad has them also.

(WMD my xxxx)

We know Saddam had them because they were used against both Iran and the Kurds. We also know he had them because both the US and UK governments name was on the invoice. We know some were exported because they were intercepted (the large shipment on its way to Yemen springs to mind) so the real issue is where are they now?

I understand WMD to be nuclear weapons, not chemical and biological. Yes, indeed Saddam had, and used chemical weapons. But then Asad has them also.

righteous countries do not possess weapons of mass destruction

As far as war with Iran, no rational person welcomes such a thing. However, I do think clear headed people have concluded two things:

Iran wants at least the capability of making weaponized nukes very fast and they are well on the way of achieving that goal

Sanctions will not stop them from meeting that goal

So if the west and its allies are serious about stopping a nuclear Iran, war is the option. Is it worth it? Who knows?

Bibi Netanyahu knows.

I don't think it is actually true that Israel has the military capability to retard the Iranian weapons program as well as the U.S.

I agree. If the US really intends to stop Iran's nuclear program, they need to, at the least, give Israel top of the line bunker busters, but to really decimate the nuclear program, long term, they should probably make it a joint mission with as much firepower as possible.

Does Israel have the means to deploy the bunker busters? Even if they do, how many in a short space of time?

I'm not sure Israel has much to add to the party which the US couldn't do itself but they should certainly be given a serious role anyway. Maybe stopping Iran from sending a barrage of missiles their way would be a good task?

I understand WMD to be nuclear weapons, not chemical and biological.

Nope, quick search and found this...

WMD is a standard acronym for "Weapon of Mass Destruction". The term is often used synonymously with NBC or NBCR (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, or Radiological) weapon. These are a class of weapons sharing certain important characteristics. The most important is that they are capable of inflicting extremely large numbers of casualties when used against civilian targets. Secondarily, they are usually of limited military use. This can be because casualties are long delayed from time of exposure or because counter-measures for protecting military targets are either cheap, making them useless against enemy military forces, or essentially impossible, leading to a deadlock in which opposing military forces benefit from bilaterally relinquishing their use.

http://www.wisegeek.com/contest/what-are-wmds-weapons-of-mass-destruction.htm

Does Israel have the means to deploy the bunker busters?

Yes they do, but they do not have the most modern weapons and why use second best for so serious a mission? The USA could do the job by itself, but Israel and America will both be blamed not matter what and the bigger the force the better to destroy all nuclear facilities and as much offensive miltary capability as possible.

Does Israel have the means to deploy the bunker busters?

Yes they do, but they do not have the most modern weapons and why use second best for so serious a mission? The USA could do the job by itself, but Israel and America will both be blamed not matter what and the bigger the force the better to destroy all nuclear facilities and as much offensive miltary capability as possible.

Sorry, what I mean is does Israel have the means to deploy top of the range, state of the art bunker busters? Unless they (top shelf BBs) use the same fixings or they are push off the back of the plane like the daisy cutters I doubt they will.

I agree with what you are saying about going in with everything though, no question. Maybe Saudi can front the fuel for the job and get some free advertizing? I can just see it now... All planes with 'Powered by Saudi oil, proud sponsor of the Iranian shitfest' written on the side. It is an Olympic year after all!