Australian, 93, Faces Sexual Assault Charges In Thailand

[cbrer]

and seriously whats with these misleading photos and evidence? that got me scratching my balls in confusion

Some people are overly desperate to make him look guilty. It's bizarre, but some people seem to have serious issues that they need to deal with.

Fake photos and fake claims of 'previous rape convictions' should be cause for banning.

Edited October 6, 2012 by cbrer

[cbrer]

If guilty, will this make him the oldest ever paedophile convicted by a court, in the history of mankind?

Just googling and one 89 year old came up, but his crimes occurred in the 1970s and 80s.

Another at 76, but it occurred 25 years ago.

...and that matters....because....????

It would be another first for Amazing Thailand.

The oldest paedophile in history, who carried out his attacks while not being able to walk unaided and while he was (allegedly) in Australia at the time.

Amazing Thailand indeed.

The police and 'justice' can be fully trusted though, there's no doubt of that.

[barefoot1988]

and seriously whats with these misleading photos and evidence? that got me scratching my balls in confusion

Some people are overly desperate to make him look guilty. It's bizarre, but some people seem to have serious issues that they need to deal with.

Fake photos and fake claims of 'previous rape convictions' should be cause for banning.

the photo is definitely of another accused but im uncertain on the previous rape conviction. could be real actually, im not too certain

[Nisa]

you need to trust me when I tell you that the Australian Embassy will NOT have looked in to this case. I wrote a post earlier explaining exactly what the Embassy can and cannot do, and also what they WILL NOT do I happen to have a great deal of knowledge in this matter and what I am telling you is true. It has no bearing on the case other than you should not lend any weight to someones guilt thinking that the Embassy would have done something, or that their silence is evidence they think he is guilty. They have not looked in to it, lets be quite clear about that. They are not permitted.

Thanks for the response but here is some information regarding the embassy portion of your post as you are incorrect in believing they have not looked into the case. I agree there is not much legally they can do but the chance of them being silent about an ill 90 something year old citizen being obviously framed (no pictures) is not that plausible IMO especially if he is being held in jail .... though I also agree we shouldn't use the Embassy silence as an indication of guilt because they may believe it is better to work behind the scenes to stop the abuse and mistreatment of a citizen overseas. My point is simply that they are well aware of this case and have looked into it.

The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations

Many countries, including Australia, have signed the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations. This convention provides the framework that entitles a person who has been arrested, detained or jailed overseas to seek access to consular officers from their country of citizenship. Should you be detained overseas, you should ask to speak to officials from the nearest Australian mission.

Addresses and telephone numbers of Australian embassies, high commissions and consulates can be found on the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website.

What we can do to assist

We will do everything in our power to assist Australians who are arrested or in prison overseas, but we must also work within the legal and administrative processes that apply in the country of arrest or imprisonment.

We can:

• visit you while you're detained
  
• assist you in getting information about visitor procedures or accessing money or telephones
  
• provide you with a list of local English-speaking lawyers
  
• if authorised, arrange for your family or friends to be contacted and informed of your welfare
  
• provide information to your family and friends to enable them to send you money
  
• assist you to maintain contact with your family
  
• discuss justified and serious complaints about ill-treatment or discrimination with the local authorities
  
• raise medical or dental issues with local authorities, should you fail in your attempts to have these issues addressed
  
• arrange a small loan from the Australian Government under the Prisoner Loan Scheme (subject to your location and strict eligibility criteria)
  
• monitor your court trials and, in some circumstances, attend as an observer
  
• where applicable, provide you with information on the International Transfer of Prisoners Scheme
  
• support an application for a pardon, if local law and practice allow.
  

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nisa

[NewlyMintedThai]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

[chiangmaikelly]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

[mic6ard]

The only problem with this case is really the fact that he could over power / chase these girls. I'm sure a 10 y/o kids can out power/run him no problems. Heck he'll probably break something trying to chase them.

Has a possibility of drugs been mention? Drugging the victim that is.

[Nisa]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

I doubt it ... his actions and subsequent imprisonment have no doubt taken a toll on his health.

But to be clear, he was likely 88 when the girls say he was molesting them. But what in the world does age have to do with his molesting children? He lived on his own, had folks believing he was teaching student English, owned drove his own car .... clearly he had both the mental and physical means to commit these crimes.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nisa

[chiangmaikelly]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

It is possible you came from Mars. It is possible. But get real. 90 year old people are not very strong even Aussies. Do you know any 90 year old people living in Thailand? I do. And honestly we don't talk about sex. Sure anything is possible but it is obvious it is not likely.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

It is possible you came from Mars. It is possible. But get real. 90 year old people are not very strong even Aussies. Do you know any 90 year old people living in Thailand? I do. And honestly we don't talk about sex. Sure anything is possible but it is obvious it is not likely.

"Not likely" means it's possible, no? Thus how is it "obvious" he was framed"?

There are many cases of men in their nineties fathering children.

Even so, you don't have to be potent, be able to have an erection, be physically strong, or even be able walk to sexually abuse a four-year old girl.

[chiangmaikelly]

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

It is possible you came from Mars. It is possible. But get real. 90 year old people are not very strong even Aussies. Do you know any 90 year old people living in Thailand? I do. And honestly we don't talk about sex. Sure anything is possible but it is obvious it is not likely.

"Not likely" means it's possible, no? Thus how is it "obvious" he was framed"?

There are many cases of men in their nineties fathering children.

Even so, you don't have to be potent, be able to have an erection, be physically strong, or even be able walk to sexually abuse a four-year old girl.

Ya I agree. You are right. If you are a cop and a 4 girls get raped and mugged the first thing you do is go out and round up all the 90 year old Australians in town right?

[GentlemanJim]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

If you read the thread then we don't have to say the same things over and over again. It has become a hamster wheel as it is.

Nisa

Points accepted but please note from my earlier post regarding embassy assistance, the list you provide from their website is exactly the same as I was saying. They will ensure your welfare, health and treatment are in accordance with any conventions. They can offer limited assistance providing you have the funds to cover the costs of any assistance. Any work done behind the scenes will be done at the most senior levels and we would never get to hear about it. It is sensitive and any overt interference by diplomatic staff in a countries judicial process is not permitted. Consular staff will not 'look in to the case' other than in the areas I have mentioned I assure you.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Ya I agree. You are right. If you are a cop and a 4 girls get raped and mugged the first thing you do is go out and round up all the 90 year old Australians in town right?

No, actually you interrogate the guy the girls fingered (no pun intended) as the perpetrator and gather evidence. Which is what I assume happened in this case (I'm sure you'll tell me if you know otherwise).

Here's some additional reading for you.

http://thechart.blog...s-80s-even-90s/

Edited October 6, 2012 by NewlyMintedThai

[NewlyMintedThai]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

If you read the thread then we don't have to say the same things over and over again. It has become a hamster wheel as it is.

I now have, and still do not see how it is an "obvious" given fact that the guy was framed. Please give me some guidance. I am trying, really.

[Nisa]

Thank God for that! I knew I had seen the photo before and thought hang on that isn't Kraus. I have been searching for who it is but to no avail. Good comparison Nisa

I finally figured out who it was ... Briton Maurice John Praill, 76 year old. See: http://www.thaivisa....a/#entry1211614

And again, my bad, I shouldn't have copied the photo from cbrer's post without further consideration if it was actually him ... like you I found the picture very familiar and but unlike you, I incorrectly believed it was because of this case.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nisa

[chiangmaikelly]

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

If you read the thread then we don't have to say the same things over and over again. It has become a hamster wheel as it is.

I now have, and still do not see how it is an "obvious" given fact that the guy was framed. Please give me some guidance. I am trying, really.

If you are convinced the guy is guilty your position is understandable. If you are an disinterested observer it is obvious. It is obvious why you don't think it is obvious. Isn't that obvious.

[NewlyMintedThai]

If you are convinced the guy is guilty your position is understandable. If you are an disinterested observer it is obvious. It is obvious why you don't think it is obvious. Isn't that obvious.

I don't know if he's guilty or not...how would I?

But I'm not prepared to exonerate him as innocent because it's "obvious" a ninety-one year old man could not possibly abuse anyone.

Does my position anger or offend you in some way? You are coming across as quite aggressive for some reason.

Edited October 6, 2012 by NewlyMintedThai

[chiangmaikelly]

If you are convinced the guy is guilty your position is understandable. If you are an disinterested observer it is obvious. It is obvious why you don't think it is obvious. Isn't that obvious.

I don't know if he's guilty or not...how would I?

But I'm not prepared to label exonerate him as innocent because it's "obvious" a ninety-one year old man could not possibly abuse anyone.

Does my position anger or offend you in some way? You are coming across as quite aggressive for some reason.

No of course not. If you read my posts that's obvious.

[NewlyMintedThai]

These statements seemed like you were quite upset about something. I apologize if I misinterpreted your tone.

Ya I agree. You are right. If you are a cop and a 4 girls get raped and mugged the first thing you do is go out and round up all the 90 year old Australians in town right?

It is possible you came from Mars. It is possible. But get real. 90 year old people are not very strong even Aussies. Do you know any 90 year old people living in Thailand? I do. And honestly we don't talk about sex. Sure anything is possible but it is obvious it is not likely.

Edited October 6, 2012 by NewlyMintedThai

[Nisa]

Why is it "obvious" that he was framed? I haven't read every post, so apologize if there is something I missed.

60 or 70 is old. In 7 years this guy will be 100.

Are you saying it's impossible for a 91 year-old to sexually abuse a kid? That's the age he was when he was arrested.

It is possible you came from Mars. It is possible. But get real. 90 year old people are not very strong even Aussies. Do you know any 90 year old people living in Thailand? I do. And honestly we don't talk about sex. Sure anything is possible but it is obvious it is not likely.

He was likely 88. He was arrested at 90 for alleged crimes happening 2-years earlier while living on his own, owning and driving his own car and convincingly convincing adults he was capable of being a "teacher" to their children. He was 100% capable of molesting children and 100% capable of doing what they girls say he did to them. Men's sex drive may decline in years but it generally doesn't disappear unless it is related to a medical condition or medicine. And before you go down another path, there is absolutely no need to even be able to obtain an erection to molest children and like so many cases of child molestation, including this one, there is no suggestion there was penile penetration and in fact in the case police have basically stated there wasn't.

Is 88 year olds committing child molestation common in the news? No but then again every day you look at the news you will find uncommon news.

PS - And if you known 90-year olds and don't talk them about sex that is just a confirmation you don't know about their sexual thoughts and desires.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nisa

[chiangmaikelly]

I don't know if he's guilty or not...how would I?

But I'm not prepared to label exonerate him as innocent because it's "obvious" a ninety-one year old man could not possibly abuse anyone.

Does my position anger or offend you in some way? You are coming across as quite aggressive for some reason.

No of course not. If you read my posts that's obvious.

This statement seemed like you were quite upset about something. I apologize if I misinterpreted your tone.

Ya I agree. You are right. If you are a cop and a 4 girls get raped and mugged the first thing you do is go out and round up all the 90 year old Australians in town right?

No not at all. One can never watch a 90 year old Aussie too closely.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Good. We're in agreement then, and it is not "obvious" he was framed.

We're getting somewhere now.

[Nisa]

The only problem with this case is really the fact that he could over power / chase these girls. I'm sure a 10 y/o kids can out power/run him no problems. Heck he'll probably break something trying to chase them.

Has a possibility of drugs been mention? Drugging the victim that is.

You should review the case a bit (and better understand what is child molestation and child rape) as there was no mention of force or overpowering. So, I take it there is now no problem with the case.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Nobody knows for sure if he is guilty or not and this isn't going to change with a verdict and wouldn't be different if a verdict was from another country. But in my opinion based on just some of the evidence we are privy, it seems fairly apparent the guy is guilty unless you want to go to extremes and what is beyond reasonable to believe he didn't do it.

[chiangmaikelly]

Good. We're in agreement then, and it is not "obvious" he was framed.

We're getting somewhere now.

Of course not. But if he was framed it would be obvious why.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Good. We're in agreement then, and it is not "obvious" he was framed.

We're getting somewhere now.

Of course not. But if he was framed it would be obvious why.

You lost me.

Why obvious? Was it because he is particularly rich or something? Or because he maybe had a previous conviction?

What would make him stand apart from the couple hundred thousand other men in Chiang Mai as a candidate to be framed?

[chiangmaikelly]

Good. We're in agreement then, and it is not "obvious" he was framed.

We're getting somewhere now.

Of course not. But if he was framed it would be obvious why.

You lost me.

Why obvious? Was it because he is particularly rich or something? Or because he maybe had a previous conviction?

What would make him stand apart from the couple hundred thousand other men in Chiang Mai as a candidate to be framed?

How many 90 year old Australians live in Chiang Mai?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Probably not many.

But what makes an impecunious 90 year-old Australian more ripe for a framing than, say, a sixty year-old American? Or fifty year-old Brit?

And why bother framing someone who's got no money? Where's the motivation?

[chiangmaikelly]

Probably not many.

But what makes an impecunious 90 year-old Australian more ripe for a framing than, say, a sixty year-old American? Or fifty year-old Brit?

And why bother framing someone who's got no money? Where's the motivation?

I thought it was obvious. Those 90 year old Aussies are dangerous. Forget about the Yanks or the Brits. Keep an eye on those 90 year old Aussies first.