Are Farang Supposed To Be Disregarded As To There Sensitivities.

[SteeleJoe]

"If it' good for the goose its good for the gander" Play em at there own game, it works!

No disrespect intended but...stupidest idea yet.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[farang000999]

OP you are very lucky this incident only cost you 40k baht. Now you can move on with your life and she can move on to the next buffalo. A cheap lesson.

[Dancealot]

No need to be delicate with me -- I doubt you do exclude me from that! You'd be wrong but I don't expect you to believe it, and that's OK.

Not at all. I personally prefer to trust by default until proven otherwise. Even if I do get taken a bit more frequently I prefer paying that price to have a positive view of the world.

Being very poor helps keep the scammers away for sure.

But in this case I wasn't talking so much about that aspect as much as mental illness, which is IMO is just as prevalent here as back home, but much less recognized much less treated.

Of course the Venus/Mars thing's has had me discombobulated from the beginning, and IMO its scope transcends the cultural differences, even more baffling figuring out which bits of reality they "get" more than we hapless males.

Ah well, vive la différence all 'round. . .

That's very insightful, this reminds me of nietschze also about the one where you look into an abyss but the abyss looks back to you. I like you said you like to trust (some)people by default until proven otherwise.

[DavoTheGun]

OP, you didn't go through the ordeal of nursing your wife and grieving for her to have some scallywag treat you like this.

It's hard to restart after losing a long term marriage, and I believe it would be ten times harder to restart in life after losing your wife as you did. Just find the strength within yourself that you showed for those two years.......this is only a bump in the road.

I really appreciate that the the many other good comments, but, the question I asked in the first place has not been answered, can I expect the same from any other Thai Lady or should I just regard them generally as manipulative bitches. Of course I do understand they do have the advantage, and they know it for sure. The Farang in Thailand are able to fraternize with ladies much younger then themselves, and it is acceptable, try this in Aus and you would be told to F.. Off Grandpa! in no uncertain terms. And if you did happen to be successful you would be called a dirty old man. So can I expect more of the same?

[Dancealot]

Eh. in future be more specific in your OP then.

My answer is NO. A farang-thai, relation depends on his and hers personality just like in any other relation in the world. On this subject matter one cannot generalize.

[DavoTheGun]

Eh. in future be more specific in your OP then.

My answer is NO. A farang-thai, relation depends on his and hers personality just like in any other relation in the world. On this subject matter one cannot generalize.

Sorry thought my topic was quite specific, but I intend to agree with you, I think cultural differences are not relevant In emotive issues, up to a point. We have good people and Bad People.

[pauljones]

Sounds like you are a decent guy. Thais see that as a weakness and will walk all over you. Stupid farang has too much money...

It's mind over matter.

She doesn't mind and you don't matter.

.

[pauljones]

OP, you didn't go through the ordeal of nursing your wife and grieving for her to have some scallywag treat you like this.

It's hard to restart after losing a long term marriage, and I believe it would be ten times harder to restart in life after losing your wife as you did. Just find the strength within yourself that you showed for those two years.......this is only a bump in the road.

I really appreciate that the the many other good comments, but, the question I asked in the first place has not been answered, can I expect the same from any other Thai Lady or should I just regard them generally as manipulative bitches. Of course I do understand they do have the advantage, and they know it for sure. The Farang in Thailand are able to fraternize with ladies much younger then themselves, and it is acceptable, try this in Aus and you would be told to F.. Off Grandpa! in no uncertain terms. And if you did happen to be successful you would be called a dirty old man. So can I expect more of the same?

They will let you treat them as an object if you let them treat you as a bank.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I really appreciate that the the many other good comments, but, the question I asked in the first place has not been answered, can I expect the same from any other Thai Lady or should I just regard them generally as manipulative bitches. Of course I do understand they do have the advantage, and they know it for sure.

(snip)

So can I expect more of the same?

With that attitude yes, but you are creating the whole situation yourself through your choices and actions.

You have to realize that if you are in control of your own feelings and therefore your behaviour, as long as you have money here, then you have the upper hand.

Even in Pattaya that can be true, but much more likely to only be on a purely transactional level. If that's OK with you then continue on, if you're looking for a much better facsimile of a real relationship then learn Thai and get far far away from there and any other similar scene, and you increase the odds of finding a relationship that has a chance to develop into something with more genuine love down the road, even if it starts off on a mostly transactional basis, completely avoid the explicit "pay for play" scene, and do your best to avoid those that try to manipulate you with emotions - look for those who try to manipulate you by doing what you want instead.

The two keys IMO are A - looking for playmates in the right circles and in your case most importantly B:

The one who is (or at least appears to be) more ready to walk away from the relationship is the one who has the relative power. It's too late with your current soon-to-be-ex GF, but learn from this and always maintain that stance so she can't take you for granted.

Sounds like you are a decent guy. Thais see that as a weakness and will walk all over you. Stupid farang has too much money...

As a generalization this is true, especially in the farang-hunting areas. However it isn't always true in all cases - it is quite possible to be strong and smart and take care of yourself and still be seen as a nice guy - without being a sucker. Not easy, and only with relatively sincere and honest people, certainly not the many out-and-out scam artists.

Even the "nice girls" will still **pretend that they think** you are a hard-hearted cheapskate, that's just part of the manipulative game to try to get as much money as they can - but they do recognize fairness, kindness etc.

For me being perceived as relatively poor is the ideal solution - this largely keeps the scammers away. If (when) I get back on my feet financially, I will never display more than a basic level of comfort in Thailand, keep the bulk of my future reserve money completely out of sight, certainly out of the country.

Of course the starting point is dealing with girls that are young and pretty who think 10K a month is a lot of money. You can then afford to be spontaneously generous beyond that and will be properly appreciated for it rather than them taking it for granted.

But with anyone anywhere as soon as something becomes routine and expected, it's taken for granted and loses the power to be appreciated as kindness and to motivate good behavior. Rewards have to appear "random" both in frequency and quantity.

And of course get sharply reduced when things start to go bad and you're no longer getting good value for your money, stopping completely if the situation doesn't get corrected quick-smart.

If you don't have the self-discipline to walk away at that point, then you're setting yourself up as a sucker and things will only go down from there, no matter how sweet and innocent she was to start with she's somehow learned to play hardball and you better be ready to do the same.

Some guys get lucky and find a girl who doesn't drastically change within a few years. I suspect they aren't starting with ones just past adolescence, but I don't have much experience there.

Edited October 28, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[BigJohnnyBKK]

That's very insightful, this reminds me of nietschze also about the one where you look into an abyss but the abyss looks back to you.

Yes, IMO that is a wise warning toward those who think that evil can be fought directly, but in confronting it you focus on it and therefore can potentially get infected by it.

Much better whenever possible to live your life as if it doesn't exist, and only do the minimum required to divert/avoid its impact when it shows up.

Out of my friends I have a few that are very concerned about sanitation and health issues, always getting diagnostic test, paying strict attention to their (IMO weird) diets etc.

Somehow they seem to attract illness more than I do, who totally ignores the whole topic and just tries to use common sense - except when it comes to chocolate unfortunately that'll probably be the last vice to go. . .

[simple1]

OP, you didn't go through the ordeal of nursing your wife and grieving for her to have some scallywag treat you like this.

It's hard to restart after losing a long term marriage, and I believe it would be ten times harder to restart in life after losing your wife as you did. Just find the strength within yourself that you showed for those two years.......this is only a bump in the road.

I really appreciate that the the many other good comments, but, the question I asked in the first place has not been answered, can I expect the same from any other Thai Lady or should I just regard them generally as manipulative bitches. Of course I do understand they do have the advantage, and they know it for sure. The Farang in Thailand are able to fraternize with ladies much younger then themselves, and it is acceptable, try this in Aus and you would be told to F.. Off Grandpa! in no uncertain terms. And if you did happen to be successful you would be called a dirty old man. So can I expect more of the same?

What advantage do Thai women have over you. The only advantage I can see would be if you are purely sexually motivated and can only have sex for a cheap transaction cost compared to Australia. All Thai women are not the same, statistically impossible. I have lived with a Thai women for over 17 years, both in Australia and Thailand - the age difference is 13 years. Whilst in Australia she always had a paid job & was self supporting for her living expenses and contributed to our retirement funds for moving back to Thailand. Could be wrong, but my expectation is that we will be together until I die.

You are broadly correct that older single males in Australia are very often socially isolated regards affection/sex. Of course the same applies to females, but I haven't heard of any who move to Thailand for a relationship with a Thai man, knowing that the primary relationship driver is money; perhaps they are wiser than men.

Many Western men do find a Thai live-in GF, but it takes time to mutually build trust and respect. I wish you the best for your next encounter.

Edited October 28, 2012 by simple1

[TommoPhysicist]

I really appreciate that the the many other good comments, but, the question I asked in the first place has not been answered, can I expect the same from any other Thai Lady or should I just regard them generally as manipulative bitches. Of course I do understand they do have the advantage, and they know it for sure. The Farang in Thailand are able to fraternize with ladies much younger then themselves, and it is acceptable, try this in Aus and you would be told to F.. Off Grandpa! in no uncertain terms. And if you did happen to be successful you would be called a dirty old man. So can I expect more of the same?

You can expect the same from any woman in the world ..... if you don't have their respect.

Giving someone half your age money, and then doing whatever they want will never gain you their respect. You need to change yourself before their behaviour towards you will change. When you give them money ..... they have to do what you want.

As for age difference, not important in Thailand or Australia, you just need a lot more money in Australia. Ever hear someone told Sean Connery 'F. off grandpa', noooo

Edited October 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[guzzi850m2]

What advantage do Thai women have over you. The only advantage I can see would be if you are purely sexually motivated and can only have sex for a cheap transaction cost compared to Australia. All Thai women are not the same, statistically impossible. I have lived with a Thai women for over 17 years, both in Australia and Thailand - the age difference is 13 years. Whilst in Australia she always had a paid job & was self supporting for her living expenses and contributed to our retirement funds for moving back to Thailand. Could be wrong, but my expectation is that we will be together until I die.

You are broadly correct that older single males in Australia are very often socially isolated regards affection/sex. Of course the same applies to females, but I haven't heard of any who move to Thailand for a relationship with a Thai man, knowing that the primary relationship driver is money; perhaps they are wiser than men.

Many Western men do find a Thai live-in GF, but it takes time to mutually build trust and respect. I wish you the best for your next encounter.

Good post.

Age difference will matter off course, I am 16 years older than my wife and I don't think you can push it much further than that. I see a lot of +60 years old expats with 20 - 25 year old GF/wife's, <deleted>? I also see same age group expat pushing a baby cart with an infant baby in it?? Those guys must be coming here to start all over again in late life, well it's none of my business and I wish them good luck and hope they will provide sufficient funds to their kids so they can have a good education when they have passed away.

I took me a while also to build mutual trust and respect with my current wife but in the end it was worth it, she's a darling and will NEVER do something like OP's GF have been doing. Her sister once borrowed 5000 bath and came back for more, my wife told her in harsh words than she can borrow more when the 5000 have been paid off, she never asked again (she is married to a woman beater Thai man, a real ass-hole), never seen the 5000 again and we don't see the sister anymore either. My wife consider us ( our son- me- her) as THE family and by far the most important to her.

[DavoTheGun]

I really appreciate that the the many other good comments, but, the question I asked in the first place has not been answered, can I expect the same from any other Thai Lady or should I just regard them generally as manipulative bitches. Of course I do understand they do have the advantage, and they know it for sure. The Farang in Thailand are able to fraternize with ladies much younger then themselves, and it is acceptable, try this in Aus and you would be told to F.. Off Grandpa! in no uncertain terms. And if you did happen to be successful you would be called a dirty old man. So can I expect more of the same?

You can expect the same from any woman in the world ..... if you don't have their respect.

Giving someone half your age money, and then doing whatever they want will never gain you their respect. You need to change yourself before their behaviour towards you will change. When you give them money ..... they have to do what you want.

As for age difference, not important in Thailand or Australia, you just need a lot more money in Australia. Ever hear someone told Sean Connery 'F. off grandpa', noooo

The Lady in question is not half my age we have 18 Year difference, also not sexually motivated, more about companionship, I am learning Thai as she is English, further, relating multimillionaire filmstars to young girls is drawing a longbow, don't you think. anyway, intend to play the game a little longer, with much more caution and see what happens.

[TommoPhysicist]

The Lady in question is not half my age we have 18 Year difference, also not sexually motivated, more about companionship, I am learning Thai as she is English, further, relating multimillionaire filmstars to young girls is drawing a longbow, don't you think. anyway, intend to play the game a little longer, with much more caution and see what happens.

Now you're quibbling, 18 years = young enough to be your daughter.

What's her motivation in the relationship?

This is a game you have already lost, stop being so needy and move on.

[somtumlion]

To the OP - not all farang are treated with disdane. But you are apparently. Grow a pair.

Edited October 28, 2012 by somtumlion

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The Lady in question is not half my age we have 18 Year difference, also not sexually motivated, more about companionship, I am learning Thai as she is English, further, relating multimillionaire filmstars to young girls is drawing a longbow, don't you think. anyway, intend to play the game a little longer, with much more caution and see what happens.

Davo, I understand you'd like to think the relationship can be salvaged, but really, if you find anyone to support you in your justification fantasies you really shouldn't listen to them.

Even if you spend much less money per week on your lady, you should value your time and energy at least as much.

Here's a thought experiment, total up the money you've spent on her, even including indirect costs if your financial tracking system supports that level of detail

Ask yourself if you've received good value in exchange, as if she's a platonic paid companion separately from the physical services if you like, whatever but make it rational, systematic, as objective as possible "as if" she's a paid service provider and you're the customer even if you prefer not to think of your relationship that way, remember this is just a thought experiment to help put things in perspective.

Now draw a line in the sand and start tracking this ratio from a "new start". How much are you willing to give her per week if she continues to give you her current level of service? What if that level of service were to drastically improve, what would the maximum be?

If you think attempting to have a rational discussion with her might be constructive (I don't advise it but you already know what I think you should be doing right now), then lay your cards on the table. "Listen teerak, I really do love you, but I'm not a rich man, I do have certain needs and I'd rather not go outside to other sources to get them satisfied, here's what I'm willing to do for you, let's talk about what you're willing to do for me" etc and cut an explicit deal.

You may very well find that put in those terms she will become very rational and businesslike. It's also possible that you'll discover that there is a huge gap between her own appraisal of her market value and what you're willing to provide.

And if this is the case, and everything is out in the open, she may very well let you know that she's not willing to stick around, and you part on friendly terms leaving the door open for when you become richer or more willing, or she becomes more realistic after realizing she's been on to a much better thing than what she's likely to find elsewhere.

What do you think, give it a try?

[Berkshire]

First of all, most of that (all of the stuff i italics) was me quoting someone else and they deserve any credit for taking time to put it so well

Thanks. . .

But that line -- that I did write -- should be thais have NO respect for people who allow themselves to be disrespected.

And I did say this was true with most people but maybe even more with Thais.

Yes, in my experience many strong-minded women only respect men who are stronger than them and keep them in the place they realize is appropriate.

Of course the healthy ones with good independent self-esteem aren't like that at all, but to the extent they exist in Thailand I don't think we see many of them, my theory is we get mostly damaged goods that the Thai guys would spot a mile away.

I do not think the Thai Guys are smart enough, the ones that I have met are absolute wanke_rs, selfish at that!

If you really believe that, Davo, then you're hopelessly clueless when it comes to understanding relationship dynamics in Thailand. BigJohnny is spot on. I can see how you can allow yourself to be so easily manipulated.

What I've learned over the years about women--even western women--is that they despise wimps. Western women, for example, would not want an a-hole, nor do they want a wimp, but someone in between. Given a choice, they'd rather be with an a-hole over a wimp. For Thai women, multiply that by 10. Now some Thai women would relish the opportunity to be with a farang wimp, but only temporarily, so she can bleed the wuss dry.

I'm sure you like to think of yourself as a sensitive, understanding, nice guy. Always asking the GF for her opinion/permission, giving her anything she wants, letting her do as she pleases, rarely saying "no," treating her like a princess. That, Sir, is a wimp.

[Shaktam]

The honeymoon faze is over! Her true colours are shining, looks to me like you are getting pushed around and no bloke should have to endure that it strips your manhood away not to mention the frusteration factor. Maybe you have been to giving since living here. IMHO, set some ground rules down and show some dominance. Next time you might be asked before being used. In my abode I am always politely asked if my partner knows I would be out of my comfort zone. And that is quite rare also.

[ayayay]

Stop referring to yourself as farang, its a good start.

Then tell them, you are human, just like the thais, and would preferred to be viewed as such.

Just because you have white skin, does not mean you are an ATM

Keep referring to yourself as farang, and they will keep seeing you as an alien/ATM

Edited October 28, 2012 by ayayay

[somtumlion]

Stop referring to yourself as farang, its a good start.

Then tell them, you are human, just like the thais, and would preferred to be viewed as such.

Just because you have white skin, does not mean you are an ATM

Keep referring to yourself as farang, and they will keep seeing you as an alien/ATM

Oh good - I was afraid this thread wasn't going to turn into a discussion of the word farang...

[ayayay]

What I've learned over the years about women--even western women--is that they despise wimps. Western women, for example, would not want an a-hole, nor do they want a wimp, but someone in between. Given a choice, they'd rather be with an a-hole over a wimp. For Thai women, multiply that by 10.

No, totally wrong.

In Thailand, if you meet a normal girl, she is much less likely to go with the asshol_e, than the western woman. Normal Thai girls, are much more attracted to nice guys, than western women are...

[ayayay]

Stop referring to yourself as farang, its a good start.

Then tell them, you are human, just like the thais, and would preferred to be viewed as such.

Just because you have white skin, does not mean you are an ATM

Keep referring to yourself as farang, and they will keep seeing you as an alien/ATM

Oh good - I was afraid this thread wasn't going to turn into a discussion of the word farang...

nah, you farang, not human, you no understand thai people

[Tolley]

I agree with an earlier poster about demands from your TGF.

Many will try it on but it is up to you to set the boundaries.

If you are uncomfortable doing something then you can say yes and never get around to it.

That seems a cultural norm here and when you dont get around to doing it then they will get the message.

Giving an outright no and starting a fight over it wont get you anywhere.

[somtumlion]

Stop referring to yourself as farang, its a good start.

Then tell them, you are human, just like the thais, and would preferred to be viewed as such.

Just because you have white skin, does not mean you are an ATM

Keep referring to yourself as farang, and they will keep seeing you as an alien/ATM

Oh good - I was afraid this thread wasn't going to turn into a discussion of the word farang...

nah, you farang, not human, you no understand thai people

Classy - college education well worth it

[BigJohnnyBKK]

No, totally wrong.

In Thailand, if you meet a normal girl, she is much less likely to go with the asshol_e, than the western woman. Normal Thai girls, are much more attracted to nice guys, than western women are...

I agree with you to some extent on this (not at all about the farang BS but. . .)

But I think some of the disagreement comes from culture differences - you're not farang yourself right?

Western women are taught from birth that they need to make a living, should be independent, strong, equal to a man in every way, don't let yourself get pushed around etc.

IMO this goes against the instinctive grain of many women, who deep down would like to be taken care of, maybe not bossed around, but let the guy take the lead as long as what he's doing makes sense.

In my experience, the stronger the woman is ("ball-busting bitch" in chauvinist terms) the less respect she has for those men she's able to boss around.

It's just that there are far fewer of them here in Thailand than back home.

However when the western men come here, they bring all their mother's unconscious cultural programming with them. The Thai girls start out being all traditional, but the farang guys end up subconsciously training their Thai "partners" to become every bit as domineering as western women because they think that's what is "correct" and "nice".

Which is why I avoid like the plague any Thai girl that's had any personal experience with English or farang culture.

If I were to take her out on a date, I'd never make the mistake of asking her "what would you like to do?" or "what kind of food do you want to eat?" Because I know she'll just be panicking inside, thinking it's a trick question "how does he want me to answer?" Of course 99.9% of the time with a "nice girl" the answer is "up to you", and it's not just because you're the senior, you're paying, you're the man, it's actually the situation that makes her more comfortable, she's not qualified to make a decision like that.

It's my job to choose a restaurant or an activity that I know she'll enjoy, as the senior, I'm obliged to take her needs into account, or if not, at least be aware of that and make up for it in a different way later on.

Because Thai girls are so used to being treated in an insensitive way, one of the big attractions (besides being suckers they can bleed dry) is that we'll treat them decently more often than what they're used to.

But by our own cultural standards we're still looked on as selfish womanizing pigs.

The challenge is to find the balance, and self-awareness is half the battle.

[Neeranam]

Stop referring to yourself as farang, its a good start.

Then tell them, you are human, just like the thais, and would preferred to be viewed as such.

Just because you have white skin, does not mean you are an ATM

Keep referring to yourself as farang, and they will keep seeing you as an alien/ATM

Absolutely - referring to yourself as farang sets off a whole range of thoughts/actions from yourself and the Thai girl fleecing you that most people don't realize.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Absolutely - referring to yourself as farang sets off a whole range of thoughts/actions from yourself and the Thai girl fleecing you that most people don't realize.

So since my prospective teeraks don't speak a word of English, just what word should I use when referring to "foreigners of European descent", or more generally as shorthand for "Westerner"?

And do you suggest I use the above quoted phrases when speaking English to fellow farang oops honkeys oops white guys?

Really? Enquiring minds would like to know.

What a crock of shiite. . .

[noob7]

I really appreciate that the the many other good comments, but, the question I asked in the first place has not been answered, can I expect the same from any other Thai Lady or should I just regard them generally as manipulative bitches. Of course I do understand they do have the advantage, and they know it for sure. The Farang in Thailand are able to fraternize with ladies much younger then themselves, and it is acceptable, try this in Aus and you would be told to F.. Off Grandpa! in no uncertain terms. And if you did happen to be successful you would be called a dirty old man. So can I expect more of the same?

You can expect the same from any woman in the world ..... if you don't have their respect.

Giving someone half your age money, and then doing whatever they want will never gain you their respect. You need to change yourself before their behaviour towards you will change. When you give them money ..... they have to do what you want.

As for age difference, not important in Thailand or Australia, you just need a lot more money in Australia. Ever hear someone told Sean Connery 'F. off grandpa', noooo

The Lady in question is not half my age we have 18 Year difference, also not sexually motivated, more about companionship, I am learning Thai as she is English, further, relating multimillionaire filmstars to young girls is drawing a longbow, don't you think. anyway, intend to play the game a little longer, with much more caution and see what happens.

Looks like, your are a addict, in this case.

Good luck. Also: There are many more of these drugs around, outside your blindage

[Neeranam]

Absolutely - referring to yourself as farang sets off a whole range of thoughts/actions from yourself and the Thai girl fleecing you that most people don't realize.

So since my prospective teeraks don't speak a word of English, just what word should I use when referring to "foreigners of European descent", or more generally as shorthand for "Westerner"?

And do you suggest I use the above quoted phrases when speaking English to fellow farang oops honkeys oops white guys?

Really? Enquiring minds would like to know.

What a crock of shiite. . .

Enquiring minds should buy a dictionary and look up the word foreigner.

When speaking English to fellow foreigners, I use 'foreigners', 'expats', 'sexpats', 'tourist' or sometimes 'whiteys'. The point being we are not all the same as the word 'farang' suggests. Have you never wondered why Thais use the pronound 'mun' after the word 'farang'? Grow a pair dude!

Why don't these Pattaya visitors/even residents realize how stupid they sound when they throw in words like 'teerak', 'farang', 'suey' when speaking English ?

Would they call themselves 'howlies' in Hawaii? 'gringo' in Mexico? etc Probably not, but they do call themselves farang in Thailand through ignorance.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Neeranam