Another Sorry Story

[Iusedtocycle]

In the CCTV the guy is clearly still moving, wobbling and I couldn't see an indicator (but the video isn't clear). Most importantly though he is clearly moving left and in the left hand side of the road before he swings abruptly right. He is in no way stopped and sitting towards the centre of the road. How was the Thai driver supposed to know he was going to turn right?

Lucky he didn't get put away for causing the accident.

[marstons]

my point is that the Australian is mostly at fault here and that the police were perfectly in they’re rights to point the blame at him.

Your point is completely wrong. The motorcyclist trying to overtake was overtaking on the wrong side. If you want to overtake on the right, you do it by crossing onto the oncoming traffic lane. There was traffic coming so he decided to try and squeeze in between them, which is completely illegal and stupid.

nonsence if there is room to overtake in your own lane its legal and correct to do it as the thai guy tied to do. You dont on a bike over take a bike by crossing into the other lane.

[chuenyongman]

Hi, I received an email from a friend in Australia about this accident. He said the police wanted a confession from him and his passport. Failing that he could pay $15000.00. Australian dollars and walk away.

[Bella BKK]

The bottom line is the Thai police are corrupt and you can't really trust them.

[khunPer]

It is truly a very sad story and meaningless end of a (young) life - but also another bad reputation for Thailand. Samui is an extremely dangerous place to drive, especially motorbike and especially when you are not used to the "Thai way" of driving.

Yes, helmets can save life.

From the CTV and the many good arguments in this tread, it seems like an accident, where both parts may be blamed for something: Not stopping and waiting for a clear road, signal for right turn (?), driving too fast etc.

The main thing, when driving in Thailand, is to acknowledge, that it is Thailand, and the traffic in Thailand is different from your home country. It is a question of "Thai Way" - rules or not. The book "Thai Law for foreigners", written by two Thai lawyers, include a long list of the Thai way and says fx. about driving (p98):

»As a foreigner, you are accorded high social status, and this extends to accidents too. In most cases, no matter who cause the accident, you will be blamed because you are a foreigner.«

And (p99): »As mentioned before, whether or not it's fair to you (a foreigner) drive and are involved in an accident, it is usually considered your fault for not knowing how to drive the Thai way.«

I live at Samui and has been here quite some years - and unfortunately seen (too) many accidents. Motorbikes take over both at the right and left side at same time, even you are completely stopped (fx. car) and for long time has been signaling a right turn. Normally it is considered the fault of the one doing the right turn, if an accident happens. A car way back may even flash the light, meaning: "I drive fast and I do not intent to stop, so don't turn, I will take over!" That is the Thai way - and the only way to avoid accidents is, to be very calm and take your time to make sure you have a clear road.

The status thing is often a question of, which part can afford to pay the bill (damage, hospital etc.), as someone has to pay – even between Thais, one without fault may have higher status and therefore can afford to pay for the other part, being poor and low status. The Thai Way of clearing is normally a question of compensation.

Did the story mention anything about the other motorbike and what happened to the driver?

[carmine]

It is truly a very sad story and meaningless end of a (young) life - but also another bad reputation for Thailand. Samui is an extremely dangerous place to drive, especially motorbike and especially when you are not used to the "Thai way" of driving.

Yes, helmets can save life.

From the CTV and the many good arguments in this tread, it seems like an accident, where both parts may be blamed for something: Not stopping and waiting for a clear road, signal for right turn (?), driving too fast etc.

The main thing, when driving in Thailand, is to acknowledge, that it is Thailand, and the traffic in Thailand is different from your home country. It is a question of "Thai Way" - rules or not. The book "Thai Law for foreigners", written by two Thai lawyers, include a long list of the Thai way and says fx. about driving (p98):

»As a foreigner, you are accorded high social status, and this extends to accidents too. In most cases, no matter who cause the accident, you will be blamed because you are a foreigner.«

And (p99): »As mentioned before, whether or not it's fair to you (a foreigner) drive and are involved in an accident, it is usually considered your fault for not knowing how to drive the Thai way.«

I live at Samui and has been here quite some years - and unfortunately seen (too) many accidents. Motorbikes take over both at the right and left side at same time, even you are completely stopped (fx. car) and for long time has been signaling a right turn. Normally it is considered the fault of the one doing the right turn, if an accident happens. A car way back may even flash the light, meaning: "I drive fast and I do not intent to stop, so don't turn, I will take over!" That is the Thai way - and the only way to avoid accidents is, to be very calm and take your time to make sure you have a clear road.

The status thing is often a question of, which part can afford to pay the bill (damage, hospital etc.), as someone has to pay – even between Thais, one without fault may have higher status and therefore can afford to pay for the other part, being poor and low status. The Thai Way of clearing is normally a question of compensation.

Did the story mention anything about the other motorbike and what happened to the driver?

Sounds to me the thai laywers who wrote this book are saying that this is a corrupt third world country and if you choose to live or holiday here be it at your own risk because the true rule of law here doesn't exist.

Thats quite an admission. And how sad.

[osiboy]

This is terrible .....when will the Thai Police treat people in a fair and just manner ...

I was treated in the same way after an accident and threatened with either night in jail , impounding my car , taking my passport etc etc ....

I signed ...later I learnt the police had fabricated a story to protect the Thai .. so that he would be able to claim insurance ....etc etc ..

this is how the thai police have their cake and eat it, the guilty driver pays them say 40,000b to get off with no charges and then the police go after the farang for double the amount , they are just a mafia in uniform and should have the "royal" removed from the name royal thai police , they are a disgrace and any cadets that have ideas of being an honest cop are soon thinking they same way as the rest of these theiving, selfish, rip off merchants , they have shown such cruelty and and no compassion here once again by trying to get money out of a tragic accident,...........hope they see real karma and rot in hell.

hope the australian lady will see justice and the aussie embassy gives the thai govt some pay back,............RIP

[evadgib]

Ah yes, the Thai way......

Some clown in a Red Suzuki Jeep behind me dared to toot his horn this afternoon because I observed right-of-way protocol at a roundabout.....only to discover that the driver of the car already on the roundabout had no idea HE had right of way!

We Ferangs really cannot drive:(

Re Thai Highway code; I haven't looked for a while but several years ago I found copies in a local bookshop that had been blatantly plageurised from WH Smith/ HMSO or similar in UK (they still had their markings on most of the pages).

Edited November 28, 2012 by evadgib

[raybal5]

On this page is the Chanel 9 story with video of the crash.

Interesting that many of the comments at the foot of the page are clearly of the view that Mr Keith, the Australian, was the main person at fault in this incident.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2012/11/27/17/27/thai-police-tried-to-blame-boyfriend-for-womans-death

[Pormax]

This is terrible .....when will the Thai Police treat people in a fair and just manner ...

I was treated in the same way after an accident and threatened with either night in jail , impounding my car , taking my passport etc etc ....

I signed ...later I learnt the police had fabricated a story to protect the Thai .. so that he would be able to claim insurance ....etc etc ..

I had exactly the opposite experience. Was rear-ended (no sarcastic comments please) whilst waiting to turn at a set of lights late at night. Young kid (14), drunk, "stole" his Uncle's pickup to go for a spin, smacked into me hard. Long story short, the Thai taxi drivers all came over, grabbed this kid who was trying to run away, called the Police for me, Police arrived and could see straight away what was going on. Went to station, and they were all very friendly and helpful.They pushed me to charge the kid etc and not let it go. I did have my (at the time) Thai gf with me later on, but I have no complaints how it was handled in my particular situation.

Good to see you were treated fairly.

So some hope then on the horizon if I have the misfortune of being involved in a traffic accident but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[TommoPhysicist]

I have 20+ years experience attending and investigating vehicle collisions and from the footage I see nothing that the Australian could be charged with. (no helmet yes)

1. Driving without a m/c license

2. Endangering the life of a passenger (allowing her to ride without a helmet)

I'm betting if she had been wearing a helmet, she would still be alive. Doesn't that make it his fault?

In the UK or Australia letting her ride without a helmet would be 'manslaughter' or 'reckless endangerment'.

He would have been arrested and held in either country.

[churchill]

Isn't the point that the crash will not be investigated because the Thai Police cannot be bothered ...and the easy solution is for the tourist that is still alive to sign a piece of paper admitting fault .. end of story .

[spectre324]

This is terrible .....when will the Thai Police treat people in a fair and just manner ...

I was treated in the same way after an accident and threatened with either night in jail , impounding my car , taking my passport etc etc ....

I signed ...later I learnt the police had fabricated a story to protect the Thai .. so that he would be able to claim insurance ....etc etc ..

same thing happened to me, my truck was parked, ignition off, a motorcycle hit the right side traveling the wrong way. the cop said it was my fault, that my isuarance would cover it. took his sorry A-- to police HQ and demanded to talk to the Chief. the chief overruled him and the two idiots had to pay 1,000 baht damage! told the fool that i would spend a million baht in court befoire I paid ten baht to the isiots! it worked this time!

[Iusedtocycle]

It is truly a very sad story and meaningless end of a (young) life - but also another bad reputation for Thailand. Samui is an extremely dangerous place to drive, especially motorbike and especially when you are not used to the "Thai way" of driving.

Yes, helmets can save life.

From the CTV and the many good arguments in this tread, it seems like an accident, where both parts may be blamed for something: Not stopping and waiting for a clear road, signal for right turn (?), driving too fast etc.

The main thing, when driving in Thailand, is to acknowledge, that it is Thailand, and the traffic in Thailand is different from your home country. It is a question of "Thai Way" - rules or not. The book "Thai Law for foreigners", written by two Thai lawyers, include a long list of the Thai way and says fx. about driving (p98):

»As a foreigner, you are accorded high social status, and this extends to accidents too. In most cases, no matter who cause the accident, you will be blamed because you are a foreigner.«

And (p99): »As mentioned before, whether or not it's fair to you (a foreigner) drive and are involved in an accident, it is usually considered your fault for not knowing how to drive the Thai way.«

I live at Samui and has been here quite some years - and unfortunately seen (too) many accidents. Motorbikes take over both at the right and left side at same time, even you are completely stopped (fx. car) and for long time has been signaling a right turn. Normally it is considered the fault of the one doing the right turn, if an accident happens. A car way back may even flash the light, meaning: "I drive fast and I do not intent to stop, so don't turn, I will take over!" That is the Thai way - and the only way to avoid accidents is, to be very calm and take your time to make sure you have a clear road.

The status thing is often a question of, which part can afford to pay the bill (damage, hospital etc.), as someone has to pay – even between Thais, one without fault may have higher status and therefore can afford to pay for the other part, being poor and low status. The Thai Way of clearing is normally a question of compensation.

Did the story mention anything about the other motorbike and what happened to the driver?

Off the topic here but you might be able to help me with a question. If I am approaching a car that is turning right across my path and they are slowly edging over, is it my responsibility (for want of a better word) to flash them to say "stay put"? This often happens to me and I just think "can't they see me coming" but maybe I should be flashing to tell them to stop. Always a bit of a worry since flashing in this instance in most countries would be an indication for the car to go!! I usually just slow down so much I am almost at a complete stop which in-turn slows the car down so he loses all advantages of slowing edging across!!.

[churchill]

This is terrible .....when will the Thai Police treat people in a fair and just manner ...

I was treated in the same way after an accident and threatened with either night in jail , impounding my car , taking my passport etc etc ....

I signed ...later I learnt the police had fabricated a story to protect the Thai .. so that he would be able to claim insurance ....etc etc ..

same thing happened to me, my truck was parked, ignition off, a motorcycle hit the right side traveling the wrong way. the cop said it was my fault, that my isuarance would cover it. took his sorry A-- to police HQ and demanded to talk to the Chief. the chief overruled him and the two idiots had to pay 1,000 baht damage! told the fool that i would spend a million baht in court befoire I paid ten baht to the isiots! it worked this time!

You were lucky .. you don't want to get involved with the courts .....not only money , time time time and stress .

[khunPer]

It is truly a very sad story and meaningless end of a (young) life - but also another bad reputation for Thailand. Samui is an extremely dangerous place to drive, especially motorbike and especially when you are not used to the "Thai way" of driving.

Yes, helmets can save life.

From the CTV and the many good arguments in this tread, it seems like an accident, where both parts may be blamed for something: Not stopping and waiting for a clear road, signal for right turn (?), driving too fast etc.

The main thing, when driving in Thailand, is to acknowledge, that it is Thailand, and the traffic in Thailand is different from your home country. It is a question of "Thai Way" - rules or not. The book "Thai Law for foreigners", written by two Thai lawyers, include a long list of the Thai way and says fx. about driving (p98):

»As a foreigner, you are accorded high social status, and this extends to accidents too. In most cases, no matter who cause the accident, you will be blamed because you are a foreigner.«

And (p99): »As mentioned before, whether or not it's fair to you (a foreigner) drive and are involved in an accident, it is usually considered your fault for not knowing how to drive the Thai way.«

I live at Samui and has been here quite some years - and unfortunately seen (too) many accidents. Motorbikes take over both at the right and left side at same time, even you are completely stopped (fx. car) and for long time has been signaling a right turn. Normally it is considered the fault of the one doing the right turn, if an accident happens. A car way back may even flash the light, meaning: "I drive fast and I do not intent to stop, so don't turn, I will take over!" That is the Thai way - and the only way to avoid accidents is, to be very calm and take your time to make sure you have a clear road.

The status thing is often a question of, which part can afford to pay the bill (damage, hospital etc.), as someone has to pay – even between Thais, one without fault may have higher status and therefore can afford to pay for the other part, being poor and low status. The Thai Way of clearing is normally a question of compensation.

Did the story mention anything about the other motorbike and what happened to the driver?

Sounds to me the thai laywers who wrote this book are saying that this is a corrupt third world country and if you choose to live or holiday here be it at your own risk because the true rule of law here doesn't exist.

Thats quite an admission. And how sad.

And how did you come to the conclusion "corrupt" from my text above?

[churchill]

It is truly a very sad story and meaningless end of a (young) life - but also another bad reputation for Thailand. Samui is an extremely dangerous place to drive, especially motorbike and especially when you are not used to the "Thai way" of driving.

Yes, helmets can save life.

From the CTV and the many good arguments in this tread, it seems like an accident, where both parts may be blamed for something: Not stopping and waiting for a clear road, signal for right turn (?), driving too fast etc.

The main thing, when driving in Thailand, is to acknowledge, that it is Thailand, and the traffic in Thailand is different from your home country. It is a question of "Thai Way" - rules or not. The book "Thai Law for foreigners", written by two Thai lawyers, include a long list of the Thai way and says fx. about driving (p98):

»As a foreigner, you are accorded high social status, and this extends to accidents too. In most cases, no matter who cause the accident, you will be blamed because you are a foreigner.«

And (p99): »As mentioned before, whether or not it's fair to you (a foreigner) drive and are involved in an accident, it is usually considered your fault for not knowing how to drive the Thai way.«

I live at Samui and has been here quite some years - and unfortunately seen (too) many accidents. Motorbikes take over both at the right and left side at same time, even you are completely stopped (fx. car) and for long time has been signaling a right turn. Normally it is considered the fault of the one doing the right turn, if an accident happens. A car way back may even flash the light, meaning: "I drive fast and I do not intent to stop, so don't turn, I will take over!" That is the Thai way - and the only way to avoid accidents is, to be very calm and take your time to make sure you have a clear road.

The status thing is often a question of, which part can afford to pay the bill (damage, hospital etc.), as someone has to pay – even between Thais, one without fault may have higher status and therefore can afford to pay for the other part, being poor and low status. The Thai Way of clearing is normally a question of compensation.

Did the story mention anything about the other motorbike and what happened to the driver?

Off the topic here but you might be able to help me with a question. If I am approaching a car that is turning right across my path and they are slowly edging over, is it my responsibility (for want of a better word) to flash them to say "stay put"? This often happens to me and I just think "can't they see me coming" but maybe I should be flashing to tell them to stop. Always a bit of a worry since flashing in this instance in most countries would be an indication for the car to go!! I usually just slow down so much I am almost at a complete stop which in-turn slows the car down so he loses all advantages of slowing edging across!!.

Don't they say . to position your car well in advance .. so that other drivers know your intention .... this may be aggressive driving and work in the west .... but not so easy over here . ...also always give yourself lots of space to avoid collision .

[Tropicalevo]

I think you are right Boater, I always sat on the centre of the road on my motorbike when waiting to do a right hand turn, from now on I will do as you do, it would be much safer.

You would be very wise to do so.

I am not completely sure about this but if the thai highway code is ever adhered to, i believe that you should actually pull over to the left and wait prior to making a right turn? Mindyou, does it anywhere refer to "accident not happen if you not here!"

Is there really such a thing as a Thai highway code?

Yes there is . You can buy the book at most Thai bookshops. You have to know the answers when you take the Thai m/c test.

[Rooo]

I think you are right Boater, I always sat on the centre of the road on my motorbike when waiting to do a right hand turn, from now on I will do as you do, it would be much safer.

You would be very wise to do so.

I am not completely sure about this but if the thai highway code is ever adhered to, i believe that you should actually pull over to the left and wait prior to making a right turn? Mindyou, does it anywhere refer to "accident not happen if you not here!"

Is there really such a thing as a Thai highway code?

Yes there is . You can buy the book at most Thai bookshops. You have to know the answers when you take the Thai m/c test.

http://freebeerforyorky.com/driving.html

That covers cars & bikes.

From this topic here:

[khunPer]

Off the topic here but you might be able to help me with a question. If I am approaching a car that is turning right across my path and they are slowly edging over, is it my responsibility (for want of a better word) to flash them to say "stay put"? This often happens to me and I just think "can't they see me coming" but maybe I should be flashing to tell them to stop. Always a bit of a worry since flashing in this instance in most countries would be an indication for the car to go!! I usually just slow down so much I am almost at a complete stop which in-turn slows the car down so he loses all advantages of slowing edging across!!.

To my knowledge and experience of "Thai Way":

Flashing lights means: I am driving get away.

If someone takes over in opposite lane and use your lane, you are expected to give way and move out at the so-called "shoulder", the left hand lane many think is for motorbikes - especially if they flash headlights or have higher status (ie. more expensive car or a big truck).

Your are expected to be polite and give way for others (unless you have automatic higher status and can flash you lights).

On Koh Samui speed limits are 40 and 45 km/h, so if you drive within the speed limit, you will normally always be able to politely slow down or stop.

Remember, Thailand belongs to the Thais - you are an alien here, even you may have status from foreigner’s money - you do not understand the "Thai Way of Thinking".

If someone block my lane, I will slow down and let them pass – signal for that is the Hazard flash. Very rarely I may flash my lights, but that is when it is to late to stop (just before an accident, some Thais – and also farangs – seems like they don't look out at all, just drive).

[dighambara]

This is terrible .....when will the Thai Police treat people in a fair and just manner ...

I was treated in the same way after an accident and threatened with either night in jail , impounding my car , taking my passport etc etc ....

I signed ...later I learnt the police had fabricated a story to protect the Thai .. so that he would be able to claim insurance ....etc etc ..

Thai police do this to their own. My wife's pickup was rammed from the side by a woman on a motorbike - obviously the motorbike's fault but Police saw a potential bribe. They pushed and pushed, threatening jail, then got a Judge involved, so a very large fine was paid...

It boiled down to extortion - which driver had more money -put her thru the wringer to get as much as they could.

[Tropicalevo]

It's a waste of time pontificating about the law and who is right based on western standards.

In Thailand - the spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law. The law is here to protect Thais first and foremost.

An example -

I was involved in an accident when, unfortunately, a Thai died.

The family wanted money from the foreigner.

The police told me "Do not pay - accident not your fault".

However, I offered to pay some money to the family - against the advice of the police. The Thai family took me to court because they wanted 20 times the amount that I offered. (Millions of baht)

The police said that it was not my fault and that they would appear as a witness for me.

After initial presentations of the evidence, in court, the judge told me that....

The case would probably take 2 -3 years to resolve. All of that time - the police would hold my passport.

Even though I may be innocent, as a foreigner in Thailand I would have to pay some money to the family of the unfortunate dead person. The other driver had no money.

The judge advised me to make an offer to the Thai family, admit 50% guilt (thus perjuring myself) and the case would be finished. Passport returned.

I informed the judge that I had already made an offer some months before the case came to trial.

He turned to the Thai family and asked if this was true. When they admitted that it was true, he asked them how much had I offered.

Then the judge went a bit mental and gave them a choice.

1 accept my offer immediately, and also sign a statement saying that the case was closed and there would be no further actions on their part.

or

2 he would award them half of what I had offered and send them to jail for wasting his and the court's time

They took option no 1.

At no time did the police ask me for money. The judge apologised that it had to take so long to get resolved (nine months)

I did give the police a 'contribution' because under Thai law, if there is a death at a road accident, all drivers go to jail (unless in hospital). However, I only spent a token 10 minutes in jail - the other driver was in for a while until someone bailed him out.

[Iusedtocycle]

I have to totally disagree with you. (1st the wearing of helmets or not, played no part in the collision)

I have 20+ years experience attending and investigating vehicle collisions and from the footage I see nothing that the Australian could be charged with. (no helmet yes) What is the 1st very glaring and obvious offence committed by the thai rider? It is an international rule and offence not to abide by. The offence is "fail to keep as far left a practicable" Then you have the offences of Fail to keep left of centre and diverge when unsafe. A road rule designed to prevent such collisions.

What was preveting the Thai rider abiding by this rule, was there an obstruction on his left? I didn't see anything as other riders were travelling on the left and abiding by the law. The Thai rider has no defence for not doing so and if he had of abided by the law and travelled as far left as praticable then I do not see how this collision would have occured. Thai rider totally at fault.

What did the Thai Police charge the Australian with? Nothing and why, because they had nothing to charge him with, they needed a confession of wrong doing and without it they had zip, zilch nothing. They produced a confessional statement written in thai by someone who wasn't even a party or witness to the collision apparently admitting all guilt to who knows what, may have been for unsolved murders for all the guy knew. Once they had a signed statement then the negotiations in regards to payments to make any charges disapear and compensation could have started. If he was at fault then he would have been charged with or without a confession and proceeded to court but the BIB knew that they had absolutely nothing to stand up in court. Even a Thai court. The stations legal team would have also scrutinised the footage before the program went to air for any blame that could be attributed to the aussie.

Some on here are trying to depict the guy and his girlfriend, god rest her soul as your typical loud mouthed drunken, thong and chang singlet wearing aussie yobbo. How so very far off the mark some are. These were two well educated decent people. Nicole was graduating with honours in journalism and was already working as a sports reporter/commentator for a radio station and part of the team of one of the highest rating, if not the highest rating television sports shows in Australia (The Footy Show) which requires a certain image on and off the media scene. They were two people who came to Thailand for a romantic holiday before announcing thier engagement and not to crawl the gutters of Pattaya and throw up in the street.

Go to the point on the cctv where they pass the pedestrian crossing. Look at their position on the road, they are to the far left of the road. At this point there is also a bike undertaking them. They are still moving forward at a slow and wobbly pace. When he spots an opportunity to turn right he dashes abruptly from the left hand side of the road. It is quiet common here on samui to see farangs wobbling along at a slow speed in this position on the road with no intention of turning right. Usually chatting or looking around oblivious to the danger they are imposing on other drivers. Many a time even with their indicators still ticking away from the last turn they made. This guy clearly does not have a motorbike license. Anyone with one (particularly an australia license where they make you attend a training course before getting your L, I have a full license) would know the basic rule about road safety and that is "visibility". Make sure everyone can see you and see what your intentions are. Position on the road is primary. Use of the back break is mandatory in situations like this to make sure your break light is on and thus making sure cars behind you know you are slowing, even if you don't need to break to stop. Checking your mirrors to make sure it is even safe to stop and turn at the intersection and checking your blind spot again before pulling out. Every motorbike rider knows the intersections are the most dangerous sections of roads and extra vigilance is needed. So I think we can easily assert he does not have a license.

no motorbike license,

no helmet,

incorrect and dangerous positioning on the road,

making a right hand turn from the left hand side of a road.

and most probably had a few beers at dinner.

He should be charged with multiple crimes. Fact of the matter is, if he was driving in the correct position on the road the Thai driver would have had ample space to go on the inside. If I see a farang in this position I tend to give them a wide berth to the right hand side. Going to their left would require slowing down to a walking pace and doesn't give you any where to go if they wobbly to the left.

[khunPer]

What strikes me – talking about Thai Way of driving – is, that the Australian couple keeps to the left of the road, when turning to the right. Thais normally stop in the middle of the road (usually, but not always) giving signal (right) and waits there, until the opposite lane is clear. Traffic from behind continues at the left side, as the first “overtaking” motorbike in the CTV. We foreigners may have learnt to keep at the (left) side is safe, but that means you need to make sure of clear traffic from two directions. That – kind of u-turn – operation may have confused the presumably fast driving motorbike coming from behind.

[NoshowJones]

I think you are right Boater, I always sat on the centre of the road on my motorbike when waiting to do a right hand turn, from now on I will do as you do, it would be much safer.

You would be very wise to do so.

I am not completely sure about this but if the thai highway code is ever adhered to, i believe that you should actually pull over to the left and wait prior to making a right turn? Mindyou, does it anywhere refer to "accident not happen if you not here!"

Is there really such a thing as a Thai highway code?

Yes there is . You can buy the book at most Thai bookshops. You have to know the answers when you take the Thai m/c test.

I took and passed my motorcycle test earlier this year and got 28 marks from 30 for the theory test, and I've never even seen a Thai highway code, only used common sense.

[chrissables]

So very sad that the girl lost her life. Condolences to her family.

So stupid of them not to wear helmets. Sorry - but it has to be said. How many tourists have to die because it looks cool to go 'free'. As one report wrote "The blow she took to her head was so severe."

Yes I m a heartless bar steward (maybe) but it could have been different. Driving license? Previous motorbike experience? Helmet?

Of course the BIB's are wrong. How come the guy knows what the Thai document says? Does anyone know that the other rider paid the police? Who really knows what happened?

Sorry - still some unanswered questions from a one sided TV program.

It's back to the age old problem in Thailand. It's OK for me to break the small laws, but not OK for him to break the big ones.

Ride a bike - wear a helmet. The life that you save may be your own.

Interesting, wearing a helmet would have stopped the other bike hitting tham at a reported 50 mph. At that speed, a helmet or not make no difference.

[kjhbigv]

Very sad, but I have to be honest, looking at the video, the Aussie rider was way to far to the left of the road for turning right. When I first watched it I thought he was going to do a left turn. I think one of the other bikes that was passing could have possibly partially hidden the Aussie from view for the Thai.

I would never have expected him to do a right turn, if he was doing a right turn, he should have:

1. Been much closer to the centre of the road, not to the left.

2. He should have been indicating.

3. The most important thing from the position from where he was (way too far to the left) was to do a lifesaver look over the shoulder, every motorcyclist has this drummed into them.

4. Helmet!

Yes, the Thai was probably riding too fast, but I don't think he can take all the blame.

A very sad (perventable) accident.

[Tatsujin]

OK, just watched the full video. Sorry for the loss of life, but I got to blame the boyfriend at least partly on this one.

As a bike rider and a car driver, I would hazard a guess and say he is obviously unused to riding a bike which is not uncommon here. He is also not very well positioned within his lane for making a right turn (too far over to the left) and that alone would lead to confusion. I can't tell whether he was indicating or not also, but I'll hazard another guess and say probably not.

It looks to me that he is wobbling along, too far over to the left of his lane, slows down, wobbles left a bit more, then decides to make the turn right . . . and swings ACROSS the lane he is in. He should already have been further over to the right side of that lane before making that right turn.

Edit: I see that kjhbigv has posted essentially what I was saying. And good point about the "lifesaver" look before making ANY turn. Most motorcyclists from the west would have had this hammered into them.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Tatsujin

[chooka]

I have 20+ years experience attending and investigating vehicle collisions and from the footage I see nothing that the Australian could be charged with. (no helmet yes)

1. Driving without a m/c license

2. Endangering the life of a passenger (allowing her to ride without a helmet)

I'm betting if she had been wearing a helmet, she would still be alive. Doesn't that make it his fault?

In the UK or Australia letting her ride without a helmet would be 'manslaughter' or 'reckless endangerment'.

He would have been arrested and held in either country.

Rubbish

[softgeorge]

I have 20+ years experience attending and investigating vehicle collisions and from the footage I see nothing that the Australian could be charged with. (no helmet yes)

1. Driving without a m/c license

2. Endangering the life of a passenger (allowing her to ride without a helmet)

I'm betting if she had been wearing a helmet, she would still be alive. Doesn't that make it his fault?

In the UK or Australia letting her ride without a helmet would be 'manslaughter' or 'reckless endangerment'.

He would have been arrested and held in either country.

Who says he didn't have a licence? The passenger is over 16 so it is the passengers responsibily to wear a helmet, under 16 the riders responsibilty to ensure passenger has a helmet. Same as for seatbelts in a car.

Ran this past a few colleagues this afternoon including one from the Major Collision Investigation Unit (D.I/Prosecutor) and all of the same opinion the Thai rider is at fault. The Aussie would have no charges to answer. The Thai would be arrested and charged with culpable driving.

Try and pass the blame onto the Aussie all you like but you are whistling dixie.