Thai Police Bust Multi-Million Baht Sex Toy Smuggling Ring

[OMGImInPattaya]

So I'm looking to get my first Thai bank credit card. From my discussion with a couple of the local banks, it seems they basically work like this:

Can get a card for one-half of the amount deposited, with a hold, in an account at the bank. E.g., deposit B 1M and can get credit card with limit of B 500k.

Interest rate is 28 percent.

There is a 45 day "grace period" before interest is accrued. I'm not sure if this is only if the balance is paid in full, and if not, will interest then be charged from the date of purchase onwards for any carried balance?

Various cards have different bells and whistles and annual charges (sometimes waived).

What, if any, are the fraudulent charge protections, if any, with Thai credit cards. With American cards, if you notify the bank promptly of any unauthorized or lost or compromised cards, you are not liable for them. How does it work with the Thai cards?

Thanks in advance for any feed back and sorry I'd this has all been covered before but didn't

Want to search all through the forum.

Also, any cards which have travel perks, especially fast-pass immigration clearance at swampy and/or use of airline lounges regardless of class or carrier of fight purchase?

Edited December 19, 2012 by OMGImInPattaya

[Pib]

A couple of your points are the key regarding a Thai credit card. For a farang, unless you have a work permit, about the only kind of Thai credit card you can get is a "secured" one. That is, you must lock away an amount in a deposit to get a card and have no access to the money until x-days after you cancel the card...and x-days could be in the bark of 45 days as the card issuing bank wants to ensure no delay charges arrive. When it comes to consumer protection in Thailand it should be called bank protection as you are pretty much at the mercy of the bank's credit/debit card policy--and you know that's written with smoke-and-mirrors language to befuddle the customer while protecting the bank. 28% interest seems high...usually the rate is around 20%. Also, usually the credit line given will be equal to or approx 2/3 of the secured deposit amount.

Just as FYI, this Bankgok Bank link shows the basic fees for their Plantium card...I'm not promoting Bangkok Bank it's just their English web site is light years ahead of other Thai banks and since Thai banks have very similar policies/fees the Bangkok Bank web site is a very good reference for Thailand banking issues.

Personally, due to the weak consumer protection I wouldn't consider getting a Thai bank credit card unless I couldn't get a no foreign transaction fee credit card from my home country...fortunately I have two such home country credit cards which even give me cash back and of course consumer protection under my home country laws. But I release getting such a credit card may not be easy/possible for many.

And although a debit card can't always to used to buy certain things online, getting a Thai bank debt card just requires the opening of a standard savings account (an unsecured account) which still allows anytime access to your money....but of course you need to have money in the account for a debit transaction to be approved. Unless needing a credit card for cash flow purposes or certain purchases, you would probably be better off and safer just using a Thai debit card--but of course a Thai debit card also has little consumer protection.

[theoldgit]

A good response Pib, though I do know of foreigners who have been given an American Express card without having a Work Permit or needing to leave a deposit.

Whilst I have used my Kasikorn debit card online, I haven't been able to use it to check in at some hotels or to rent a car, for these a credit cards seems to be required.

[Soutpeel]

A good response Pib, though I do know of foreigners who have been given an American Express card without having a Work Permit or needing to leave a deposit.

ok....but AMEX cards are not really a Thai bank credit card, typically to get an unsecured credit card through a Thai bank...one needs to have a WP and in certain cases needs to be on a WP for a certain number of year...think its 3 years

[Pib]

A good response Pib, though I do know of foreigners who have been given an American Express card without having a Work Permit or needing to leave a deposit.

Sure, but they are the exception. But the general requirement for a farang to get an unsecured Thai bank issued credit card is a work permit, a certain salary amount, and X-months/years in the job. Guess a work permit makes a farang more trust worthy, easier to verify income, less likely to skip the country and leave a credit card bill behind, easier to track down/collect from...who really knows the train of thought Thai banks are using.

[Soutpeel]

A good response Pib, though I do know of foreigners who have been given an American Express card without having a Work Permit or needing to leave a deposit.

Sure, but they are the exception. But the general requirement for a farang to get an unsecured Thai bank issued credit card is a work permit, a certain salary amount, and X-months/years in the job. Guess a work permit makes a farang more trust worthy, easier to verify income, less likely to skip the country and leave a credit card bill behind, easier to track down/collect from...who really knows the train of thought Thai banks are using.

As you have stated there are exceptions, when I first arrived in Thailand, the company was helping set up my bank account etc with SCB and I received an unsecured SCB credit card within 2 weeks of arriving in country, so suppose a companies influence will help as well

[OMGImInPattaya]

Thanks for the responses, especially Pib's, as they are helpful. I was able to track down an English version of SCB's credit card Terms and Conditions from their website, as as you say, there is basically little protection against fraudulent charges. The pertinent paragraph is reprinted below:

4. The cardholder must keep the card and the personal identification Number code (PIN) with

particular care and must not lose the credit card. The Card and the PIN code may under no

circumstances be passed to others or made accessible in any other way by any actions that

cause others to possess the card or result in other people obtaining the pin code. In any

circumstances, if the cardholder does not follow the terms, and the card is used for fraudulent

proposes by others, using the card and/or the PIN code, or counterfeiting the card, or forging the

signature of the cardholder, or using any other methods to induce merchants to accept the credit

card instead of cash or allow them to withdraw money, the promisor agrees to bear sole

responsibility for the transactions conducted using the card and to compensate the bank or

others for any damages arising from the fraudulent use.

So as one can see, the "promisor", i.e., card holder, is the one responsible for compensating the bank for any fraudulent charges. Nice piece of business that...USA banks must be so envious!!

When I asked the bank representative specifically about this point, she replied that she had never encountered a customer with this type of problem (a fraudulent charge...yeah right) and that if it should ever happen, there would be some type of negotiation and maybe there would be an 80/20 split of the disputed charge. So the customer would pay the 20 percent I asked, to which she laughed (just kidding) but she said no, the 80%!

I also said I didn't need their new First Privilege credit card (with the B 10k annual fee...waived if keep B 10M is combination of SCB accounts) as I didn't intend to use many of it's bells and whistles. They have now offered a "Beyond Platinum" card for 5k fee, with some stuff I would actually use, like fast-pass immigration clearance at Swampy and looks like use of the Thai lounges as well. I go in/out 4-5 times per year so this would be a valuable perk for me.

She says that as soon as I fund my already established savings account, they will submit the credit card application and will have the card in about 10 working days.

As to the more general question of why even get a Thai credit card, especially if one has ones from home as well? Well, for local charges there is no loss on the currency exchange nor any foreign currency transaction charges many foreign cards charge. There are also times, as mentioned, when using a local debit card doesn't work for some reason, like checking in at hotels and putting down the security deposit. Also, there are sometimes some great promotions/discounts to be had when using Thai bank credit cards at many merchants. Therefore, the reason for going local (as well as "inter.") However, I would only use the Thai card very judiciously and of course, only at reputable merchants and set all the security and SMS notifications to maximum security.

Edited December 20, 2012 by OMGImInPattaya

[Pib]

Thanks for the responses, especially Pib's, as they are helpful. I was able to track down an English version of SCB's credit card Terms and Conditions from their website, as as you say, there is basically little protection against fraudulent charges. The pertinent paragraph is reprinted below:

4. The cardholder must keep the card and the personal identification Number code (PIN) with

particular care and must not lose the credit card. The Card and the PIN code may under no

circumstances be passed to others or made accessible in any other way by any actions that

cause others to possess the card or result in other people obtaining the pin code. In any

circumstances, if the cardholder does not follow the terms, and the card is used for fraudulent

proposes by others, using the card and/or the PIN code, or counterfeiting the card, or forging the

signature of the cardholder, or using any other methods to induce merchants to accept the credit

card instead of cash or allow them to withdraw money, the promisor agrees to bear sole

responsibility for the transactions conducted using the card and to compensate the bank or

others for any damages arising from the fraudulent use.

So as one can see, the "promisor", i.e., card holder, is the one responsible for compensating the bank for any fraudulent charges. Nice piece of business that...USA banks must be so envious!!

Good info on the credit card policy. Pretty much supports what I mentioned in my earlier post of:

When it comes to consumer protection in Thailand it should be called bank protection as you are pretty much at the mercy of the bank's credit/debit card policy...

[OMGImInPattaya]

Found this juicy bit of bank protection in the Terms and Conditions as well concerning lost/stolen cards (I was a lawyer so I actually like to read the fine print):

In case the card is lost or stolen, the cardholder must inform the local [police] officers at the scene, and bring the evidence of notice [police report?] to the bank with a confirmation letter [who writes this...cardholder or police?] that confirms the loss, or theft of the card in written form. When the bank receives such notice, the Bank will notify the loss or theft, and/or cancellation and/or suspension of the card to the group who accept credit card payment instead of cash payment for products and services (referred as"stores"). Anyhow, the promisor still needs to be responsible for debts arising from the use of the card during 5 minutes from the time the bank has been notified by the cardholder.

WOW!!! So the cardholder is responsible for any and all charges on a lost/stolen credit card as well...up to and including 5 minutes after the bank has been notified of loss. This is a real danger as one may not know a card has been lost/stolen for some hours or possibly even days after it occurs. Even if one is mugged so to say, how long before the BIB get out there or one gets to the police station to make out a report and then get that written report to the bank...half-hour...a few hours. How much may be charged during that time. Also, what about if it's at nite or a holiday and the banks are closed?

Ok...I re-read the preceding sentences of the relevant paragraph [not reprinted] and it appears that the initial notification of a lost/stolen card can be made via their 24-hour customer service number. However, the caveat of the 5 minutes still applies from the time of the call and of course, one still might be delayed in realizing a card has been lost/stolen, which would allow time for fraudulent charges to be made.

I like my USA credit cards where one just calls the toll-free number to report a lost/stolen card and the card is immediately canceled, one is not responsible for any charges even before the notification if fraudulent, and a new card is mailed out with a few days.

Still won't stop me from getting a Thai card...but just be super careful in its use.

Edited December 20, 2012 by OMGImInPattaya

[OMGImInPattaya]

Here is the paragraph re lost/stolen cards in full if anyone is interested:

5. The cardholder has the right to cancel his/her credit card at any time. He/she has the right to get annual membership fee refunded for the time the services are not used. If the credit card is lost or stolen, or the cardholder wishes to cancel the card or suspend the card temporarily for any reason, the cardholder must contact the customer service of the bank immediately by telephone or other communication tools, or by other means, which similarly communicate with the customer service of the bank. In case the card is lost or stolen, the cardholder must inform the local officers at the scene, and bring the evidence of notice to the bank with a confirmation letter thatconfirms the loss, or theft of the card in written form. When the bank receives such notice, theBank will notify the loss or theft, and/or cancellation and/or suspension of the card to the group who accept credit card payment instead of cash payment for products and services (referred as "stores"). Anyhow, the promisor still needs to be responsible for debts arising from the use of the card during 5 minutes from the time the bank has been notified by the cardholder. In addition, the promisor agrees to pay a fee caused by cancellation or suspension of the card to the bank.

Edited December 20, 2012 by OMGImInPattaya

[Pib]

dam_n good bank protection policy, ain't it! How dare a person lose or have their credit card stolen and then expect a fair level of consumer protection. TiT.

[worgeordie]

You also dont seem to have much protection,when someone working IN the

bank steals money from your account,be it the manager ,teller,whoever.

Also happens a lot more than you would think, Consumer Protection +Thailand

the ultimate Oxymoron,

regards Worgeordie

[orchidlady]

Do you know if Thai Amex cards offer the same lack of security for fraudulent purchases? I was considering getting a Thai Air Amex card because I have experienced the problem of hotels not accepting my BKK Bank ATM card for deposit also. My credit cards from back home do have foreign currency charges.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Do you know if Thai Amex cards offer the same lack of security for fraudulent purchases? I was considering getting a Thai Air Amex card because I have experienced the problem of hotels not accepting my BKK Bank ATM card for deposit also. My credit cards from back home do have foreign currency charges.

I did find the following quote on Amex's Thai website concerning fraud protection:

When you use the American Express^® Card to purchase over the internet, you will not be held responsible for any unauthorized charges online^*.Shop online with confidence when you pay with the American Express Card. We'll stand behind your online purchases just as we do when you purchase items over the phone or in person.In fact, American Express takes specific measures to protect your safety and privacy online: we use the latest technology to keep your account number secure; we have a clearly stated online privacy protection policy and we stand by it.

* Provided you notify us immediately upon discovery of any fraudulent transactions and you have complied with the Card Conditions, you will not be held liable for any charges. 'Immediately' means as soon as you are aware but no later than on or before the due date of the statement in which the fraudulent transaction appears.

Note the language only applies to online purchases but it seems to state that as long as the card holder notifies Amex as soon as they are aware of the fraudulent use (but no later than the payment due date on statement on which the fraudulent charge appears) then the cardholder is not responsible for the charge. Of course, there is also the caveat that one has to also have complied the the card's other "[Terms and] Conditions." I would assume this applies to not sharing the card or it's PIN with others.

In any case, this appears to provide much more consumer protection than your standard Thai bank credit card. It would be interesting to contact Amex Thailand to see if this protection applies to POS transactions as well. The statement just as we do when you purchase items over the phone or in person seems to imply that is the case but I can't find the specific language on the website or the card application.

The only problem with Amex, and it's the same worldwide, it that their merchant network is nowhere near as extensive as the Mastercard and Visa networks. One positive, however, is that they still offer their basic "charge" card, which is good for people who don't need/want to carry balances but want the convience of a credit card while traveling or shopping.

Here's the link to the Amex page: http://www.americanexpress.com/thailand/en/cust_svce/onlinefg.cgi

Edited December 22, 2012 by OMGImInPattaya

[wpcoe]

What is the benefit of a Thai secured credit card, versus a plain old Cirrus/MasterCard/VISA debit card against a traditional savings account?

I have a Master Card debit card against my interest-bearing -- okay, it's only a percent or less, but the BANK pays ME -- SCB savings account with no fees other than the B100 or so I paid to initially have the card issued. It seems to be accepted everyplace a credit card is accepted.

With a traditional Thai credit card, if it's secured against savings, why would anyone pay 20% interest? Just deduct from the savings account to pay the balance, no? Instead of making P&I payments, just redeposit the money into the savings account.

I'm obviously missing some significant benefit of the credit card.

[NoshowJones]

A good response Pib, though I do know of foreigners who have been given an American Express card without having a Work Permit or needing to leave a deposit.

Sure, but they are the exception. But the general requirement for a farang to get an unsecured Thai bank issued credit card is a work permit, a certain salary amount, and X-months/years in the job. Guess a work permit makes a farang more trust worthy, easier to verify income, less likely to skip the country and leave a credit card bill behind, easier to track down/collect from...who really knows the train of thought Thai banks are using.

As you have stated there are exceptions, when I first arrived in Thailand, the company was helping set up my bank account etc with SCB and I received an unsecured SCB credit card within 2 weeks of arriving in country, so suppose a companies influence will help as well

My wife had a mortgage with SCB when I met her, She set up an account for me with them, I paid off the wifes mortgage and kept a large amount of money in my account. I started work as a schoolteacher and had a work permit. I applied for a credit card and was told no problem,it will be ready in about two weeks, we will let you know when to come and collect it. About four weeks later I went to the bank and asked about it and was told "we have decided not to give you one". They didn't even have the decency to let me know I had been refused, I immediately closed my account and with drew all my money.

[monty]

What is the benefit of a Thai secured credit card, versus a plain old Cirrus/MasterCard/VISA debit card against a traditional savings account?

I have a Master Card debit card against my interest-bearing -- okay, it's only a percent or less, but the BANK pays ME -- SCB savings account with no fees other than the B100 or so I paid to initially have the card issued. It seems to be accepted everyplace a credit card is accepted.

With a traditional Thai credit card, if it's secured against savings, why would anyone pay 20% interest? Just deduct from the savings account to pay the balance, no? Instead of making P&I payments, just redeposit the money into the savings account.

I'm obviously missing some significant benefit of the credit card.

Because there are a few things which can only be done with an actual credit card.

Mainly using the card as a security deposit, most commonly done at hotels and car rental businesses.

They can actually secure a certain amount (which they can get guaranteed, say in case of a crashed rental car) without actually charging the card. Cannot be done with a debit card, they could only actually charge you, and later on refund you (in cash).

[OMGImInPattaya]

A good response Pib, though I do know of foreigners who have been given an American Express card without having a Work Permit or needing to leave a deposit.

Sure, but they are the exception. But the general requirement for a farang to get an unsecured Thai bank issued credit card is a work permit, a certain salary amount, and X-months/years in the job. Guess a work permit makes a farang more trust worthy, easier to verify income, less likely to skip the country and leave a credit card bill behind, easier to track down/collect from...who really knows the train of thought Thai banks are using.

As you have stated there are exceptions, when I first arrived in Thailand, the company was helping set up my bank account etc with SCB and I received an unsecured SCB credit card within 2 weeks of arriving in country, so suppose a companies influence will help as well

My wife had a mortgage with SCB when I met her, She set up an account for me with them, I paid off the wifes mortgage and kept a large amount of money in my account. I started work as a schoolteacher and had a work permit. I applied for a credit card and was told no problem,it will be ready in about two weeks, we will let you know when to come and collect it. About four weeks later I went to the bank and asked about it and was told "we have decided not to give you one". They didn't even have the decency to let me know I had been refused, I immediately closed my account and with drew all my money.

The bank staff probably didn't want you to "loose face" by telling you in person or phone that you had been rejected. I know, silly to us but it's the cultural norm here.

[Pib]

What is the benefit of a Thai secured credit card, versus a plain old Cirrus/MasterCard/VISA debit card against a traditional savings account?

I have a Master Card debit card against my interest-bearing -- okay, it's only a percent or less, but the BANK pays ME -- SCB savings account with no fees other than the B100 or so I paid to initially have the card issued. It seems to be accepted everyplace a credit card is accepted.

With a traditional Thai credit card, if it's secured against savings, why would anyone pay 20% interest? Just deduct from the savings account to pay the balance, no? Instead of making P&I payments, just redeposit the money into the savings account.

I'm obviously missing some significant benefit of the credit card.

Because there are a few things which can only be done with an actual credit card.

Mainly using the card as a security deposit, most commonly done at hotels and car rental businesses.

They can actually secure a certain amount (which they can get guaranteed, say in case of a crashed rental car) without actually charging the card. Cannot be done with a debit card, they could only actually charge you, and later on refund you (in cash).

Exactly. Recently when using my U.S. credit card for a certain transaction I got an email notice which is partially quoted below:

Note: You will also receive this notification for holds, such as car rentals or hotel reservations, even if an actual transaction hasn’t taken place.

Or said another way, it was a temporary/holding charge (very common with rental cars)....such a temporary charge will drop-off if the merchant didn't finalize the transaction within a certain time frame. A merchant can't make a temporary charge against a debit card.

[NanLaew]

My wife had a mortgage with SCB when I met her, She set up an account for me with them, I paid off the wifes mortgage and kept a large amount of money in my account. I started work as a schoolteacher and had a work permit. I applied for a credit card and was told no problem,it will be ready in about two weeks, we will let you know when to come and collect it. About four weeks later I went to the bank and asked about it and was told "we have decided not to give you one". They didn't even have the decency to let me know I had been refused, I immediately closed my account and with drew all my money.

Today's som nam nah moment brought to you by possum!

[Sandman77]

Is it true, that a golden Amex card holder did not pay the 150 bath fees at a Bangkok bank ATM?

I recogneized that also some restaurants like mbk did not accept my kasikorn card, and in past true move online payment did not accept scb card!

Most credit cards in Europe send the bill one month later, Amex time for payment sometime 2 month

But why must pay thai credit card holder everything in realtime

My card was stolen last year I go quickly to scb and cancel got a new one, no police report was nesarsary ,also the bank man not ask about do this replacement process was done in 15 minutes!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Morakot]

Has anyone successfully applied for an American Express credit card while retaining their original AMEX card issued elsewhere?

Would a long standing good record with another subsidiary (i.e. AMEX UK) help towards getting a Gold or Platinum card here in Thailand?

[topt]

Has anyone successfully applied for an American Express credit card while retaining their original AMEX card issued elsewhere?

Would a long standing good record with another subsidiary (i.e. AMEX UK) help towards getting a Gold or Platinum card here in Thailand?

I had thought about this but from what I saw of their documentation online it does not look likely but you never know.

Presumably you are registered with them online? Why not ask them via their message function - you can always say you are looking at moving rather than you have already.