National Rifle Association Calls For Armed Guards In U S Schools

[cooked]

Yes. As mentioned before, it is generally off duty security personal that succeeds in this kind of intervention, they are trained for it.

An analogy I am qualified to talk about: It's all very well taking first aid classes but unless you have been engaged as a professional, you will finish up just gaping like every one else. I have stopped twice at road accidents to help, one time nobody had even called the police, everyone was just standing there and staring at the guys that were hurt. I was trained. Same thing goes for a situation that involves a shooter. You won't know until you have been there and probably, you won't be able to do it.

[bkk_mike]

Americans will never give up their guns.

But everyone needs a licence to drive a car. There should be licences for firearms too. As for the second amendment. It was written at a time of muzzle loading smooth bore flintlocks. People can have as many of those as they want. They were so inaccurate that battles involved standing in lines shooting at each other and the winning army was usually the one that could reload fastest.

And as for keeping semi automatic assault rifles at home. The ammunition (at least ) should be kept at the shooting range. people going hunting might need more ammo, but you don't hunt with an assault rifle so what VALID reason is there to keep one along with lots of magazines at home.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[chuckd]

Sounds like a reasonable idea to me. There's 300 million guns in circulation in the United States. There are 150 million of us gun owners in the United States. "Ridding" the U.S. of guns is simply not going to happen. There's too many of us.

Some of us happen to support the U.S. 2nd Amendment.

I love how people who are not from the United States, don't live in the United States, and have no connection with the United States like to spout their opinions of what United States laws should be. If you do not like the laws of the United States then don't come to the United States.

Come on sub. I read a lot of your posts and find them usually well balanced and thought out. Are you really saying only those who live in or visit the USA can have an opinion on US laws. You've never posted an opinion on another countries laws apart from the USA / Thailand?

It's a fact of life that the USA, as the world's most powerful and influential nation has domestic laws which can and do have an international impact. It's not as if all guns sold within America actually remain there.

Can you please explain how the 2nd Amendment personally affects your life in your home country?

Thank you.

Always happy to answer a politely asked question. My home country is N. Ireland though I've lived in Thailand for many years. It's well documented that the IRA were able to purchase large quantities of weapons, through their agents, in the USA. I would suggest that these weapons were more easily obtainable due to the 2nd Amendment. The IRA had a fondness for the AR-18 which they got from the USA.

I won't go into personal details but suffice to say I would support stricter gun control though actually not an outright banning.

I wonder if any Mexican board members would care to answer the same question you posed.

Thank you for the response. However I would wager the vast majority of those weapons were purchased illegally to begin with. They were then illegally shipped to Northern Ireland where they were illegally imported, likely against existing import laws. Perhaps there should have been better enforcement of existing laws on both sides of the Atlantic.

As far as the Mexicans are concerned. The largest gun running operation in recent memory was called "Fast and Furious" and was run by the US Justice Department in violation of the laws of both nations. We will never find out what happened there...executive privilege and all that.

[Pinot]

There is only one way to stop the madness. A .22 and a boloney sandwich in every lunch pail.

I just love these idiots who think the only answer is more guns...idiots.

[Pinot]

The enemy would be crazy people with guns killing people ........ Armed good people is not an unreasonable solution to armed bad people.

Do you have any idea of the calibre of people hired as security guards in most businesses, airports, schools, etc.?

I'm sure that most of them are "good," but many of them are of limited intelligence, are unable to find more desirable employment because of advanced age, medical conditions, poor work record. Would you really want these "good" people firing guns any place where crowds of people, especially children, are everywhere? Anyway, they'd probably be shot first or someone would take their guns to shoot others or they'd take out innocent people.

I can't imagine anyone would feel safer sending their children into a building where some palsied geriatric case in a uniform was armed to the teeth. I doubt teachers would be comfortable with that either.

There was an armed guard on duty that day at Columbine. So goes the armed guards idea.

[bigbamboo]

Perhaps there should be people with guns guarding the people who have guns guarding the people who have guns.........

That way those who prefer to not carry a gun can live together happily without them.

[Chicog]

I read somewhere they actually managed to ban all hand guns in a city but gun crimes actually went up! Why? Simple because criminals don't follow the law!

It's a common trick from the NRA to howl at places with gun bans and scream that the criminals have guns. That's because they can drive a few miles over the border and get them in the next state.

It needs a countrywide ban to have any effect. Of course, that won't happen.

So instead the deluded NRA ask for arms in schools so we can have more shootouts, more Zimmerman-style incidents, and probably more postal worker situations.

It beggars belief.

[gl555]

I read somewhere they actually managed to ban all hand guns in a city but gun crimes actually went up! Why? Simple because criminals don't follow the law!

It's a common trick from the NRA to howl at places with gun bans and scream that the criminals have guns. That's because they can drive a few miles over the border and get them in the next state.

It needs a countrywide ban to have any effect. Of course, that won't happen.

So instead the deluded NRA ask for arms in schools so we can have more shootouts, more Zimmerman-style incidents, and probably more postal worker situations.

It beggars belief.

You said it yourself. A countrywide ban will not happen. You can't effectively ban guns when they're already 300 million in circulation in the country.

While people like you call the NRA 'deluded', you have no solution at all from preventing a school massacre from happening again. All the next crazy guy has to do is pick up one or two from the 300 million guns out there and go kill some kids again. Examples have been given on how armed private individuals have actually stopped tragedies like these from happening before. The anti gun people always to ignore these incidents. It's always easier to demonize the NRA and gun owners.

[aussiebebe]

It's easier to point out the flaws in the NRA's plan; - Columbine high school actually had two armed guards but they were outgunned by the two students with Tec-9s. How can the NRA not remember this? It's like a bad dream.

[slapout]

The US could start by pulling all ammo for assult/war weapons, the weapons themselves, and their component parts, then ban the sale and manufactor of same.

Its not going to be 100% successful, but it is a start and should be agreeable to those using firarms for sport and other legal uses.I can not think of the need for any semi auto hand gun or rifle, so they could go after those as war weapons, also.

The apparent mindset of the opposing groups will most likely never be satisfied until they get all of their demands. Compromise/logical discussion seem to be something only the old geezer can remember and relate to.

[Cardiff1963]

more guns definitely the answer.

[Cardiff1963]

100+ shot since the massacre.More than Afghanistan.

[Exsexyman]

So the NRA are calling for more guns, no surprise there. In other news 'Bear discovered defecating in woods'. The NRA are a lobby group with a huge vested financial interest, and should NOT be consulted.

[Chicog]

While people like you call the NRA 'deluded', you have no solution at all from preventing a school massacre from happening again. All the next crazy guy has to do is pick up one or two from the 300 million guns out there and go kill some kids again. Examples have been given on how armed private individuals have actually stopped tragedies like these from happening before. The anti gun people always to ignore these incidents. It's always easier to demonize the NRA and gun owners.

Oh I do have a solution, but it involves taking away the rights of knobs like the NRA to buy politicians.

[gl555]

While people like you call the NRA 'deluded', you have no solution at all from preventing a school massacre from happening again. All the next crazy guy has to do is pick up one or two from the 300 million guns out there and go kill some kids again. Examples have been given on how armed private individuals have actually stopped tragedies like these from happening before. The anti gun people always to ignore these incidents. It's always easier to demonize the NRA and gun owners.

Oh I do have a solution, but it involves taking away the rights of knobs like the NRA to buy politicians.

In other words you don't then.

[JUDAS]

Chuckd. I would have to agree with your first paragraph that the vast majority of weapons I was referring to were illegally obtained which, leads us straight back to greater control being required to keep these weapons effectively tracked. Illegally held / supplied weapons obviously originate from the place of manufacture and at times end up in the wrong hands. If we can almost instantly get ownership details of any vehicle and it's history surely a similar national database should exist for all weapons ever manufactured / sold in the US.

Off course the issue of armed guards being called for at US schools is about spree shooters killing dozens of students with what are actually legally owned weapons that the killer has had easy access to. It's not overly difficult to introduce regulations relating to storage / accessibility of weapons held within a home environment which makes it much more difficult for anyone but the owner / licensee to gain access.

The fast and furious weapons shipment is a mere drop in the ocean of illegal USA origin weapons in Mexico. Around 70% of all illegal weapons in Mexico come from USA. I only raise this issue to highlight what I consider to be a serious lack of control on weapons in at least some US states. An interesting read here http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/may/29/jim-moran/jim-moran-says-70-percent-traced-firearms-mexican-/

As an afterthought perhaps someone can enlighten me. My understanding is that a convicted felon cannot get a licence for a firearm? If a legal holder of weapons is later convicted of a felon is there an automated system which flags the issue and his weapons are immediately seized?

[koheesti]

Armed guards in schools? I didn't really like the sound of that the first few times I heard it.

I wouldn't want any local volunteers that's for sure.

I wouldn't want to require teachers to be trained and carry guns.

I wouldn't want trained teachers wearing a holster walking down the halls.

I wouldn't want a teacher to keep their gun locked in their desk drawer (easy to break into)

We have school psychiatrists and school nurses sitting in an office most the day collecting a paycheck,...I wouldn't have a problem adding another desk for a security guard-type. A type like that retired police woman who worked security at that church where a madman walked in shooting. She put a quick end to that.

CNN just had a graphic showing there are over 130,000 schools in the USA (that probably sounds like a lot to everyone else with the exception of the Indians and Chinese). Each of those schools is in a community with many retired law enforcement officers around. I like the odds taking the retired professional over a young nut with a gun. Just need to make sure they aren't crazy either.

[marstons]

So why not have armed guards at schools? Crazies are not stupid. You never hear of massacres at a police station do you? They always soft targets like schools which are no gun zones. Psychos and criminals aren't going to follow the rules and not attack 'no gun zones'.

Haven't you watched 'The Terminator'? Crazies are not stupid indeed. They just start with the armed guard, and have one more gun.

You're right. Having a single guard isn't perfect but it sure beats having no guard at all.

The NRA proposal was similar to its call after the 1999 shooting spree at Columbine High School in Colorado, when two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before committing suicide. That school had an armed sheriff's deputy on duty who was unable to stop the shooting.

Armed sherrif did not work at Columbine

[EarthAlien]

Isn't that the kind of "police state" the right wing nutters are all so afraid off?

Oh no...it is their own crazy people, who guard schools with guns...and malls with guns...and football- matches with guns...and cinemas with guns....

Here is a little thought experiment: Sandy Hook...the guy takes a GUN, from HIS MOTHERS HOUSE...puts on a BULLET- PROOF VEST....and thanks to MOMS SHOOTING TRAINING, takes out the 2 guards from a distance...then set out on his killing spree!

What then???

Armed neighborhood patrol?

24/7?

But guess what: the crazy guy STILL had the bullet- proof vest. So...he takes out the neighborhood watch from a distance (remember? he can shoot, thanks to the loonie mother! ) and goes on a killing spree as planned!

What then???

When will you FINALLY accept, that no gun, no guard, will guarantee safety?

He could even take the guards out and steal their guns!

But having his mom denied the guns, on the basis of stricter laws and background checks, would have made it more difficult for him, to get the hands on the guns! is that so hard to understand?

No gun- sales at gun -shows, no second- hand gun dealing to UNCHECKED and UNLICENSED people...might have done the trick!

No,no....you need MORE guns!

Another thought- experiment:

100 people on a lonely island....1 gun! Probability of gun accidents: low!

100 people on a lonely island...50 guns! Probability of gun accident: high!

100 people on a lonely island...100 guns! ...figure it out!

It DOESN'T WORK the other way around!

It is called "logical thinking"!

errm... excuse me but I would dare to say that after applying logic and reason that "100 people on a lonely island...100 guns!" would result in a low probability of gun incidents (let's not disguise the word "accident" as an "incident" in which the shootings were premeditated) because when everyone knows that everyone else is packing a weapon then the likelihood of an attack upon a person or persons would be likely to backfire!

[onionluke]

Who needs armed guards............

[F430murci]

Does any here advocating armed guards in schools actually have children in US schools or are they just keep our guns at all costs people. I don't want my kids growing up in an environment where there are armed guards with assault weapons every where they go just so some good ole boys hang on to their rights to bear assault weapon rights.

Brother this morning who is FBI agent admitted that even he by himself may not be able to take down a whack job with body armor an AR-15 storming a school with just a pistol unless had a 5.70. FBI are trained to deal with situation with teams of four and sone old retired cop, which NRA, recommended with a pistol not going to stop someone like Lanza. Guys like Lanza are also on suicide mission so not car about risk and will just wear body armor or maybe go to mall or wait until kids getting out of school or even storm a school bus.

Point is, cannot protect everyone all the time and NRA proposal is empty and really only appeals to those buying into NRA belief system already. You don't fix problems by adding more of the problem.

[luangtom]

It is interesting to read the comments of people that have not dealt with school security, yet profess to be experts on all things they read in the news. School-police work. Some call them School-Resource-Officers, some call them School-Police or many other names. Their presence in a school does quell violence.

I was with a police department in rural, northern Minnesota, not far from Canada. We had school-liason officers and they were put there to stem the presence of gang-related and drug-related problems. The method worked. Gangs and drugs were slowly put into a minimal circumstance in the schools that had the problems. The school-officers also helped the communities they were in. The officers were available to fill-in and deal with vacations, sick-days and personal-time of other officers, without having to hire more officers to fill those voids. The school-officers followed the calendar of the schools, so their times of availability were easy to schedule.

Armed-officers in schools is not a new program. It has been happening in many jurisdictions for years. It is now just getting media attention because the foe of the White House in America, the National Rifle Association, is the most recent promoter of the program. The question now needs to be asked, "Why did the current government administration in Washington DC defund the programs already in place? Why are there funds for over-seas foreign-aid and military incursions, but not for the safety of school children? If officers were to be put in every US school, it would cost the government $5-billion to do so. Our aid to other countries right now is $49-billion, our War on Drugs costs the government $39-billion and the cost to occupy Afghanistan is $111-billion. If we put an end to spending on one of these projects, we could fund school-officers for a decade or more.

Edited December 22, 2012 by luangtom

[Potosi]

We had a gun massacre in 2001, the legislative in Kanton Zug was attacked by a guy, 14 legislators killed. In answer to another poster, the Swiss militia do NOT, since 2007, have ammunition at home. 53 homicides in 2010, 40 due to guns. With a population of 7 million, this would be the equivalent of about 2400 homicides a year in the USA. Not the 16 000 that they have now.

Yet the number of homicides in the US has about halfed for the last 30 years. Only this sort of massacres has been on the rise. I think there is another problem the US don't address, and that's to identify, institutionalize, and rehabilitate nutcases before they commit crimes. The massacres don't come out of the blue, in the aftermath there are always people stating that something was not right with that man, and facebook accounts or similar are discovered where the crimes have been announced, or at least anger vented and the desire stated to kill people. The US have all the spy technology to find terrorists, and quite a lot have been discovered before they struck. Should be no trouble to apply it to the mass shooters as well.

[jvs]

Who would want the same scene as in Manila?Every shop has an armed guard with a shotgun,no thanks.

Let's first lock our guns away safely and then discuss why some people are going over the edge and start shooting at other people.

Maybe in the last 60 or so years we have had to cope with too many new things and our brains can not handle it and the fuse goes,simple as that.

[Chicog]

While people like you call the NRA 'deluded', you have no solution at all from preventing a school massacre from happening again. All the next crazy guy has to do is pick up one or two from the 300 million guns out there and go kill some kids again. Examples have been given on how armed private individuals have actually stopped tragedies like these from happening before. The anti gun people always to ignore these incidents. It's always easier to demonize the NRA and gun owners.

Oh I do have a solution, but it involves taking away the rights of knobs like the NRA to buy politicians.

In other words you don't then.

Yes, it involves taking away the rights of knobs like the NRA to buy politicians.

[gl555]

While people like you call the NRA 'deluded', you have no solution at all from preventing a school massacre from happening again. All the next crazy guy has to do is pick up one or two from the 300 million guns out there and go kill some kids again. Examples have been given on how armed private individuals have actually stopped tragedies like these from happening before. The anti gun people always to ignore these incidents. It's always easier to demonize the NRA and gun owners.

Oh I do have a solution, but it involves taking away the rights of knobs like the NRA to buy politicians.

In other words you don't then.

Yes, it involves taking away the rights of knobs like the NRA to buy politicians.

I rephrase. Do you have a viable, legal and non fantasy solution?

[Chicog]

I rephrase. Do you have a viable, legal and non fantasy solution?

Legal, yes. Non-fantasy, yes. But while the lawmakers are in the pockets of big money, viable, no.

[gl555]

I rephrase. Do you have a viable, legal and non fantasy solution?

Legal, yes. Non-fantasy, yes. But while the lawmakers are in the pockets of big money, viable, no.

Whatever you say.

Anyway, it's simplistic to just blame the gun lobby when it's clear Americans are split on this issue. There are a lot of Americans who want their guns. And while there maybe some politicians in the pocket of the gun lobby, there are a lot of others who are truly for guns because the constituents they work for are also pro gun.

I read somewhere that just a few days after the massacre, a poll showed 42% of Americans against gun control versus the 49% for. Looks like it's split right in the middle there. Are you going to blame the NRA for the 42% too?

[bigbamboo]

The bottom line is no matter what Obama or anyone else says if a maniac wants to carry out an atrocity be it with guns or other means then there is little that any nation's government can do to stop it.

That's just the way it is.

Edited December 22, 2012 by bigbamboo