Thai Gf First Visit To Uk Refused - What Next?

[disagree]

You are, essentially, correct, Bob.

But disagree is advocating leaving the boyfriend out of the picture altogether and saying that the only reason is to visit the aunt.

That would be a lie.

I have absolutely nowhere stated such a thing. I have spoken about the scenario of the auntie being the primary sponsor. I have even stated that '(...)love interest of said girl helps her with funding a family visit(...)This can be even disclosed if necessary'. I've asked you to stop crusading. Please don't put things in my mouth.

[GarryUK]

I never hid the fact that I met her in Pattaya where she worked in Family Mart (I even included a picture of her in her uniform at work), but I've never mentioned staying in her apartment. After we met she gave everything up and moved back home because I too didn't like the idea of her staying in Pattaya, too many (incorrect) assumptions for people to make about what's she's doing behind my back.

I thought you said last year that your girlfriend was a freelancer who you met after your previous girlfriend dumped you - is this a different girlfriend?

I apologise if I have got this wrong, I will admit to not reading all your threads in their entirety.

Family Mart paid so bad so she was already "supplimenting her income" when I met her.

Well I suppose it makes a change from the usual, "she worked in the Bkk bank"

This just keeps getting better.

You mention a 3 year old kid and sin sot.

If she has a 3 year old kid, chances are she was married before, which means sin sot has already been paid.

Why would you feel the need to pay again?

Why would you feel the need to pay for land the family already own.

I recommend you do some reading on sin sot.

Whats going to happen to the kid if your g/f comes to the UK and marries you, will the kid come to, have you thought about the fathers permission for his child to leave the country?

Why the <deleted> is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

I don't know what thread you've been reading, but it ain't this one! She's 23, never been married, moved back home to look after her brother's 6 month old baby so he can work. When she comes to the UK it's up to her brother and his wife, or other members of the family to take over looking after the baby.

As for the land it belongs to the mother, but when we're married it'll belong to my wife.

[GarryUK]

looks like we are being led up the garden again by the op,why dont they come clean in the begining so we know what answers to give him,visa for your gf.forget it.

Actually it's other posters mis-interpreting things or just going off topic. Take my last reply - where did he get her having a 3 year old kid from coz it ain't been said in this or the previous posts, at least not by me!

I'm not leading anyone anywhere, up until now I've had some very useful help but it looks like the trolls have come onboard now.

[GarryUK]

wouldn't it have been easier for her to apply to see her aunt instead

Actually no, at least not applying for a family visa. As far as I recall absolutely every relation is covered with the exception of aunts, uncles and cousins. For heaven's sake you can come visit a step parent or step brother/sister, but not an aunt!

7by7 again followed disagree's post with a spot on response.

[GarryUK]

I made several initial comments on this topic which received many 'Likes' referring to the fact that the couple in question met in OCT 2012, that they have not spent much time physical in each other's company, and that they are basing their relationship in large part on long distance communication. When I asked in post #20 'How did they meet?', I was merely asking whether they met in person in Thailand or they met via the internet. Nothing more.

I did not realize at the time that there was a previous topic prior to when the (first) visa application was submitted.

No problem

[GarryUK]

You are, essentially, correct, Bob.

But disagree is advocating leaving the boyfriend out of the picture altogether and saying that the only reason is to visit the aunt.

That would be a lie.

I have absolutely nowhere stated such a thing. I have spoken about the scenario of the auntie being the primary sponsor. I have even stated that '(...)love interest of said girl helps her with funding a family visit(...)This can be even disclosed if necessary'. I've asked you to stop crusading. Please don't put things in my mouth.

Hopefully this'll stop because it's not helping and it's hijacking the post. It's suposed to be about meeeeeeeeee

I agree to the extent that I think I read disagree's comment as meaning if we hadn't already applied for a general visit visa perhaps she might have been better applying for a family visit visa. However, now I've read all the posts I think 7by7 said or at least iluded to, and I definitely said that visiting an aunt does not qualify for a family visit visa, so this was never a possibility even if we had considered it initially. Of course if I've misunderstood his post and 7by7 is right, then I too disagree with his advice. No worries, we've ruled out the aunt so let's move on shall we

[disagree]

wouldn't it have been easier for her to apply to see her aunt instead

Actually no, at least not applying for a family visa. As far as I recall absolutely every relation is covered with the exception of aunts, uncles and cousins. For heaven's sake you can come visit a step parent or step brother/sister, but not an aunt!

7by7 again followed disagree's post with a spot on response.

Unfortunately that circumstance was cleared in one of the latter answers. But possibly it could've been easier arranging her a 'general visit' to a related person ( not a 'family visit' ). Anyway, doesn't matter now; what's done is done. And yes, very weird that aunts and uncles are not 'family'

[wooloomooloo]

I'll echo 7by7's sentiments as to not knowingly subverting the essence of an application for visit or settlement visas to the UK.

It's an expensive business and worth sticking to the criterion.

Ignore most of what's written here. I'm more than happy to help.

[GarryUK]

Okay, just been reading this post and some of the reasons given for refusal have got me worried: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/636890-uk-settlement-visa-refused-and-confused/

They say he failed to evidence the relationship because:

1. The hotel receipts he submitted showed no evidence that they cohabited.

2. His MSN chat logs showed limited content.

I've already stated that while we've stayed in at least 5 different hotels during my 3 visits to Thailand (Pattaya, Cha Am, Bangkok and her home town), those in Cha Am and Bangkok were always booked via the Internet and paid using my credit card, so they only ever show my name, while the hotels back home and in Pattaya were walk-in bookings paid in cash, again taking details only of one party not both. I only have a couple of email confirmations of bookings which I could probably pair up against credit card payments, but I wasn't planning to submit any of them, or should I baring in mind they didn't help him?

I've including in the re-application 15 pages of screenshots of Facebook chat, each showing a different date, and 20 pages of edited Skype logs where I've removed 95% of the chat leaving mostly logs of our video calls and how long they lasted (unedited there were 140 pages in 8-point font so I had to cut that down somehow yet still show we talk twice a day almost every day and have done since the day I got back to the UK after first meeting her nearly 7 months ago). Should I leave more of the chat in baring in mind that much of it is quite personal in one way or another? Or does everyone agree that just showing the video logs is enough?

I took a screenshot of us talking on video the other day with the clock/calendar open so it shows the date. She has her neice with her and I'm visible in a small Window, we're both smiling and clearly quite comfortable. The quality is pretty bad, but it's clear enough to see it's her. Is it worth taking a few of these over the next few days and send them in conjunction with the logs?

I originally failed to explain my second phone, failed to include chat logs proving my claim in the sponsors letter that we chat every day, and failed to include details of my financial support, all of which I'm trying to address this time as they all help to prove a genuine relationship. In addition and not listed here but mentioned in a previous post I've printed screenshots of the About pages on Facebook that show "XXX is in a relationship with YYY". Is there anything else I can use to show this IS a genuine relationship?

[David48]

Why the <deleted> is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

GarryUK, I share your frustration with the editing bit ... but I have worked out how to do it.

If you wish to delete a whole post ... try this.

• First highlight almost all of the post you want gone

.

Why the <deleted> is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply

to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I

delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

I don't know what thread you've been reading, but it ain't this one!

She's 23, never been married, moved back home to look after her

brother's 6 month old baby so he can work. When she comes to the UK it's

up to her brother and his wife, or other members of the family to take

over looking after the baby.

As for the land it belongs to the mother, but when we're married it'll belong to my wife.

Now, I can't demonstrate a 'highlight' so I have struck through the undesired text.

• Hit delete, then you get this

.

Why the <deleted> is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply

to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I

delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

I

Then, slowly hit the 'Back Space' Button removing one character at a time.

If somehow it all goes belly-up, the hit the Blue Arrow at the top of your post which undoes your last action ... might have to do it a few times.

Hope that helps ...

.

[QED]

Met my girlfriend in Oct 2012 As per topic query, what next? Maybe wait until you've established a relationship other than via long-distance on the telephone, of which she may (in theory) have several concurrently.

I've visited her 3 times, we intend to marry in October 2013. As it's so expensive to keep going out to Thailand and difficult to keep getting time off work, we decided if she can visit for a few months that will give us time to develop the relationship even further than it has, as well as help her decide if she wants to move to the UK. We talk on video twice a day, every day. We don't have and don't want one of those relationships where a Falang visits his Thai GF once a year and doesn't know what she does the rest of the time. And moving to Thailand for a few years isn't an option at the moment as I have a decent job here and am far from old enough to retire.

Wow. 3 times? Hahaha

I assume you met in a bar somewhere?

[meatboy]

looks like we are being led up the garden again by the op,why dont they come clean in the begining so we know what answers to give him,visa for your gf.forget it.

Actually it's other posters mis-interpreting things or just going off topic. Take my last reply - where did he get her having a 3 year old kid from coz it ain't been said in this or the previous posts, at least not by me!

I'm not leading anyone anywhere, up until now I've had some very useful help but it looks like the trolls have come onboard now.

sorry gary i apologise whole heartly just wondering how many stamps have you in your passport[thailand visits]

[meatboy]

just got to reading your last posting i wonder was it a good idea to say she was staying with you in a hotel as soon as you met her,that alone would ring alarm bells with the eco.

[brewsterbudgen]

just got to reading your last posting i wonder was it a good idea to say she was staying with you in a hotel as soon as you met her,that alone would ring alarm bells with the eco.

Alarm bells about what?

[meatboy]

just got to reading your last posting i wonder was it a good idea to say she was staying with you in a hotel as soon as you met her,that alone would ring alarm bells with the eco.

Alarm bells about what?

come on bb.are you that naive?

[GarryUK]

Why the <deleted> is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

GarryUK, I share your frustration with the editing bit ... but I have worked out how to do it.

If you wish to delete a whole post ... try this.

• First highlight almost all of the post you want gone

.

>Why the <deleted> is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply

to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I

delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

I don't know what thread you've been reading, but it ain't this one!

She's 23, never been married, moved back home to look after her

brother's 6 month old baby so he can work. When she comes to the UK it's

up to her brother and his wife, or other members of the family to take

over looking after the baby.

As for the land it belongs to the mother, but when we're married it'll belong to my wife.

Now, I can't demonstrate a 'highlight' so I have struck through the undesired text.

• Hit delete, then you get this

.

Why the <deleted> is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply

to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I

delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

I

Then, slowly hit the 'Back Space' Button removing one character at a time.

If somehow it all goes belly-up, the hit the Blue Arrow at the top of your post which undoes your last action ... might have to do it a few times.

Hope that helps ...

.

It tends to work okay when I'm just replying to a short post and take out the odd sentence, but it doesn't like it when there's a reply within a reply within a reply within a.... you get what I mean. If I try to get just what the last post said I lose the blue box highlighting the fact that I'm quoting them. I sometimes even get loads more text as if I'd multi-quoted so have to delete the lot and try again (and again, and again). Grrrrrrr!

[GarryUK]

Met my girlfriend in Oct 2012 As per topic query, what next? Maybe wait until you've established a relationship other than via long-distance on the telephone, of which she may (in theory) have several concurrently.

I've visited her 3 times, we intend to marry in October 2013. As it's so expensive to keep going out to Thailand and difficult to keep getting time off work, we decided if she can visit for a few months that will give us time to develop the relationship even further than it has, as well as help her decide if she wants to move to the UK. We talk on video twice a day, every day. We don't have and don't want one of those relationships where a Falang visits his Thai GF once a year and doesn't know what she does the rest of the time. And moving to Thailand for a few years isn't an option at the moment as I have a decent job here and am far from old enough to retire.

Wow. 3 times? Hahaha

I assume you met in a bar somewhere?

No, I'm teetotal so the only time I've gone in a bar is when we've gone together to play pool.

[GarryUK]

just got to reading your last posting i wonder was it a good idea to say she was staying with you in a hotel as soon as you met her,that alone would ring alarm bells with the eco.

Alarm bells about what?

come on bb.are you that naive?

Hence somewhere I've asked "do I want to be including hotel booking confirmations?". Two points on that, firstly they don't name us both so I guess all they prove is that I went to those hotels, and secondly I've never denied but nor said directly that we've stayed together (in the same room). No the ECO isn't naive to how some girls make money to survive, not everyone is a "good girl", but then I also think they can accept even ex-working girls can fall in love and have a perfectly valid and lasting relationship. Just because someone "worked" in Thailand doesn't mean they're being bought to the UK to continue doing so, although I'm sure that does happen and so why they're so stringent on making us convince them that the relationship is genuine.

To clarify the post to which I think you refer meatboy, in my sponsors letter I wrote "During my trip we spent a couple of days in (her home town) where I met her immediate family", "and then we spent the last few days in Bangkok celebrating the New Year together". On my third trip "We’re planning to spend 3 more days in Bangkok to see more of the city before heading to Cha-Am to spend a few days relaxing on the beach". I've not actually said we shared a room, but nor have I said we didn't. The refusal notice said nothing about this either way, they didn't seem to feel it casted any doubt on her character, so the same question about hotels remains, do I include booking confirmations and say anything more about us staying together, or do I leave it as it is on the basis that the refusal notice also didn't mention anything about our trips together? Does it add to proving the relationship is genuine in that if I was just trafficking girls to work over here we wouldn't be holidaying together, or does it just add more things for them to have issue with?

[7by7]

Okay, just been reading this post and some of the reasons given for refusal have got me worried: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/636890-uk-settlement-visa-refused-and-confused/

They say he failed to evidence the relationship because:

1. The hotel receipts he submitted showed no evidence that they cohabited.

2. His MSN chat logs showed limited content.

That was a settlement application and:

1. The relationship criteria are applied more strictly than a visit.
2. The OP in that topic does seem somewhat confused about the exact reasons for refusal!

As said before, explain the reason for your name only being on the hotel receipts and also the difficulties in present all the MSN/Skype/etc. logs in your sponsor's letter.

[rgs2001uk]

rgs2001uk, I can see no mention of Garry's girlfriend having a child, can you show me where he says so?

He does say that she helps look after her niece, though!

JLCrab, from what you have posted, both here and elsewhere, it is obvious that you have absolutely no knowledge of the UK's immigration rules and procedures.

I have the same level of knowledge about those of the USA's; i.e. none at all; which is why I refrain from commenting on them!

I've said it before, and will say it again: ex bar girls do get UK visas; liars don't.

What the attitude of US immigration is in such circumstances is completely irrelevant to this topic.

I do agree that talk of sinsot at this stage is premature, and will have no bearing on her visa application anyway.

You are correct I am wrong.

I apologise for any misunderstanding.

[7by7]

Whistleblower,

wherever you are getting your information from; it isn't the OP's posts!

For example:

moving to Thailand for a few years isn't an option at the moment as I have a decent job here and am far from old enough to retire.

Perhaps you should do the decent thing and withdraw your remarks with an apology.

As rgs2001uk has had the decency to do.

Edited May 4, 2013 by 7by7

[GarryUK]

Why the fuc_k is it so difficult to edit out the crap so you can just reply to a single line instead of having to post half a page. Every time I delete a bit I end up with all manner of rubbish not even in this post.

you have to remember, if people know or suspect that you have been editing by adding and deleteing, it will raise doubt in what is true and you be refused

Regarding showing the time and date, these can be adjusted , so if i wanted, you could change the date to 25/12/15 at 18:30 or go back in time to last year, this applies to taking photos too.

so beware with editing.

I refer to here, in this forum, in my replies when I don't want to repost an entire page of comments, just respond to the last line (in this case your response)

[malct]

Ok , i understand now, But this applies to your application, stating times Etc, why not just keep it simple, Phone your GF on a Cheap phone company, highlight the Cheap call company on your phone bill with a covering explanation that you use this number to use your GF. My wife, Then GF never phoned, Just the odd SMS.

Also your sponsors letter has to be credible to, I had mine checked over just in case.

Stick to the facts and straight to the point don't try and lie or waffle on.

also, life is different on Holiday to real life, If you do get the VV, see how it goes before picking a date for the marriage. 4 years i waited and well worth the wait. I knew what i was letting myself in for and i would not change her for anyone else ;-)

o

[theoldgit]

The OP has asked for advice and has been given a fair amount of meaningful advice, as well as some insults and some tips of what he might want to consider, if he chooses to attempt to circumnavigate the system, but I suspect he will not.

Unfortunatly there are some flames and personal insults, some of which have been removed.

The thread is now going round in circles, if members members don't think they have anything constructive to add please refrain from posting.

[rawhod]

The refusal notice said nothing about this either way, they didn't seem to feel it casted any doubt on her character, so the same question about hotels remains, do I include booking confirmations and say anything more about us staying together, or do I leave it as it is on the basis that the refusal notice also didn't mention anything about our trips together? Does it add to proving the relationship is genuine in that if I was just trafficking girls to work over here we wouldn't be holidaying together, or does it just add more things for them to have issue with?

We had a one week holiday in Phuket a short time after I returned to Thailand after meeting my, then girlfriend, now wife, after I first met her for a Thai massage whilst on a touring holiday. We met for one and a half hours before I returned to the UK.

In our submission, we included photos of us together in the room and outside the hotel also air tickets and boarding passes and receipts.

It all helps..

[GarryUK]

Life is different on Holiday to real life, If you do get the VV, see how it goes before picking a date for the marriage. 4 years i waited and well worth the wait. I knew what i was letting myself in for and i would not change her for anyone else ;-)

I agree, which is why I want her here for a few months. I cannot get a decent amount of time off work to go live there for a while, and we hope to live here at least until I retire which is many years away, so there'd be no point because I want to see if she can hack it here. But I do want to make sure we still feel the same about each other when we've been together for longer than a two week holiday, which in the case of our reapplication is going to be for 16 weeks instead of the original 24, as it's still our plan to go back to Thailand in October.

[malct]

I understand about going round in circles and yes, Lots of good advice too.

Garry, can i ask, When are you planning on submitting the application, I am just confused when you say " Garry wrote, as it's still our plan to go back to Thailand in October"

I gather you talk about you and your GF going back to Thailand in October after she has been to the UK for 16 weeks. If this is correct, your GF will be submitting the application to Regents house in BKK in the next 4 weeks, Is this correct? "Garry wrote, which in the case of our reapplication is going to be for 16 weeks instead of the original 24"

Edited May 4, 2013 by malct

[GarryUK]

Okay, I've just started to read through this thread from the beginning (I'm going to read through all the threads again so I can collate together all the helpful advice that's been given so far to make sure I've not forgotten anything worth remembering that's been said), and I've noticed a couple of things I felt I wanted to comment on.

Firstly I picked someone up for saying she was 26 when in fact she is 23. Yet now I see when I started this thread that it was actually me that (accidentally) said it, so I understand why he put that in his post. For this I apologise, although I still don't actually agree with anything he said

And sinsod (or sinsot as some want to write) has been mentioned and commented on a couple of times. I don't have a problem with the concept, some do and that's up to them. With regard to the visa application though I won't be giving any money in advance of us getting married in order for the land to be signed over to her so that we can say she has assets, I agree the ECO will see what we were trying to do. This is a topic I'll visit nearer the time after reading up on it a little more (I've already read the pinned thread in the Marriage forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/85581-sin-sod-an-explanation/), so requires no further comment or opinion in this thread. Thanks

[GarryUK]

I understand about going round in circles and yes, Lots of good advice too.

Garry, can i ask, When are you planning on submitting the application, I am just confused when you say " Garry wrote, as it's still our plan to go back to Thailand in October"

I gather you talk about you and your GF going back to Thailand in October after she has been to the UK for 16 weeks. If this is correct, your GF will be submitting the application to Regents house in BKK in the next 4 weeks, Is this correct? "Garry wrote, which in the case of our reapplication is going to be for 16 weeks instead of the original 24"

We applied the first time in March while I was visiting her for the third time. We really (naively) hoped the decision would be quick enough to allow us to get her on the same plane with me when I came home on the 31st March. The plan was that she would stay in the UK as long as possible which would have been 24 weeks taking us to the middle of September, that way she wouldn't have to wait too long to see me when I go back to Thailand again in October.

Obviously the thread is in response to that visa having been refused, so the new plan is to reapply in a couple more weeks as soon as she receives all the additional documentation from me that I've put together with everyone's help so far. I'm actually waiting for my latest bank statement which I expect to receive next week, so that gives me a few more days to tie up any loose ends and fill in any gaps before we lock this thread on Tuesday. We expect she'll receive everything around the 14th May following which she'll head back to Bangkok to submit her (second) application. It remains our plan to marry in Thailand in October, I've got the time booked off work, so based on the decision taking 4 weeks again she'll not be able to come if approved until around 15th June, meaning she'll only be able to spend 16 weeks in the UK if we return to Thailand on 5th October.

Any reference to "wrote" and other past-tense comments will be referring to what was done in the first application, whereas any future-tense like "will do" will be referring to what we're planning for her next application in a couple of weeks.

Edited May 4, 2013 by GarryUK

[malct]

Thank you for clearing that up and i now fully understand that your sending off all your Private details through the Post to your Girl friend in Thailand and then she will put all her documents in the file to submit at Regents house after the 14th May and then if she gets the VV, Then she will buy a return ticket to the UK and you will be waiting for her at the airport.

If this is the case, I hope it all goes well for you.

Please take notice of what i will write below

I must point out, I would not risk sending out personal information through the post like that, I would rather wait until October and apply then for the VV for the sake of 4 months with the hope that the VV is granted while i was in Thailand.

when my wife applied, I went to Thailand each time just to make sure that the file that we were submitting was correct, we were up to the middle of the night putting all the paperwork together even though i thought it would have only taken a hour, its not that simple. Its not only your paperwork, its hers too.

Then it would be buying a airline ticket for your GF and bringing her to the UK with you, Then you will be with her when you go through immigration and believe me, they do ask questions and on my wifes first visit, She was pulled to one side after she could not answer a question regarding why was she was refused the first time!!!.

(even now she gets asked questions)

Also your GF will need 50,000 for the airfare and if your going to buy the airfare for her, She must show the method of payment at check in, so if you pay by Credit card, she must show that credit card at Check-in with you (Garry) with it (not sure if your allowed a cover letter from you)

I have to ask, have you really thought this through?

Just to bullet point the process.

1. Garry, Go to Thailand meet with GF

2. Go hotel, check all her paperwork and place in the correct order ready for submitting

3. Go to Regents House and submit.

4. Take your GF for a nice holiday in thailand and wait for the SMS to go back to BKK

5. If successful, Go to the airline office that your flying with (if emirates, go to emirates) and buy the ticket.

6. Go to the airport and at check-in show ticket and credit card that it was bought with.

7. Enjoy the flight

8. Once at the airport, Go with her through non European immigration lane. (you can not help her with any questions)

If you follow this. then you be Ok, Cant promise you the VISA, But you will have piece of mind that.

1. your personal documents will be secure.

2. The file that your submitting is correct

3. You pay for the AIrline tickets on your card.

4. She transfers through airports OK (if a transfer is required) and Dubai is not easy

5. She has you with her while going through immigration.

if you do it this way, she can have the full 6 months in the UK and in your words "I want to see if she can hack it here" and then you both can decide if marrage is the correct thing to do, because if she cant Hack it in the UK or With you, what will she do, Go back home??? Go to her aunt??? until her flight home.

Please Garry, take time to think it all through and sending Personal information though the post, i would not recommend.

Malc

Edited May 4, 2013 by malct