Phuket Foreigners. Who Needs Them?

[webfact]

Phuket foreigners. Who needs them?
Jody Houton



PHUKET: -- The dirty ‘F’ word – foreigner. Not native to this land. Someone of foreign nationality. Different. Alien. Not us. Foreigners. Bloody foreigners.

Being an expatriate is an interesting experience, as it affords many people the first chance to experience what it’s like to be a member of a group on the fringes of mainstream society – to be a minority.

How the recent arrival perceives how they are treated, and the spades of ire and indignation they may feel, probably says as much about how they viewed and treated foreigners in their homeland as how they are actually treated in their new adopted home.

Phuket is an island almost solely dependant on income generated from foreigners through the conduit of tourism and residents. As such, it is essential to treat them, sorry I mean ‘us’, well.

Thai law stipulates that, by and large, looking after tourists should be done, apart from in a few instances, by Thai people. But what if Thai people are unable to do the job?

This may be because they are unable to speak the language, are not trained to a sufficient level to provide an acceptable level of service, or are simply unable to relate.

Foreign workers have been in the news again this week. On Monday night, a group of female Russian entertainers were arrested on Patong’s notorious walking street, Bangla Road. They were whisked away, while the relevant papers, permits and documents were checked over.

However, if not those particular group of foreigners, then their foreign brothers and sisters will certainly be back working in the clubs before the weekend.

They are needed on Bangla Road, as there are a certain section of foreigners who desire to see their performances. It’s a simple case of foreign supply and demand.

Earlier on Monday, in a scene that was reminiscent of the anti-Russian protests in Bang Tao just a few months ago, a group of Chinese-speaking Thais gathered to complain about the Chinese national tour guides they said were ‘stealing’ their jobs.

As foreigners they shouldn’t be working, they said. One can't but wonder if the welcoming reception the grandparents of these Phuket-born men and women of Chinese descent received would have been any warmer.

I would argue that at least these foreigners are working. They are not a drain on the - albeit woefully weak - Thai welfare system.

They are working because there are opportunities to do so, opportunities provided from a general capacity for foreign nationals to have greater social mobility. This is the world as it stands in 2013. Why they are working is an easy question to answer, why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreign workers to work legally is another.

How Thailand will stand in 2015, with the establishment of the open-border Asean Economic Community, remains to be seen. But believe me, foreigners are not going away. It's a problem, a question that needs to be addressed logically, rationally and immediately.

People now flock to all corners of the world to live and work. There is no going back now.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-foreigners-who-needs-them-39189.php


-- Phuket News 2013-05-04

[rubberduck]

Nice article. ...To be translated into Thai and published in a Thai newspaper, as many articles 'made by and for foreigners should be read by the locals !

Edited May 4, 2013 by rubberduck

[astanhope]

Incoherent.

[JetsetBkk]

How Thailand will stand in 2015, with the establishment of the open-border Asean Economic Community, remains to be seen.

It'll never happen.

Well, maybe by 2020 if you're lucky.

[HarryMilton]

Sounds to me like an article written by someone who wants to get a job in a restricted occupation, or the owner of the club referred to moaning...3 paragraphs about topless dancers and a threat that the arrested ones will be replaced by others by the weekend. "Russian" entertainers, absolutely vital to the Thai economy.

Regarding the reception the grandparents of the Chinese-Thais received here generations ago, that's irrelevant to todays Thailand.

And the reference to working foreigners not being a drain on the Thai welfare system is nonsense, How are foreigners ever going to be a drain on Thai welfare resources, working or not?

Surely if foreigners choose to go to a country for a holiday where they know that they don't speak the local, or the international language, and that the locals don't speak their language, then their decision to visit that country should bear that disadvantage in mind? They should not expect to be able to import their 'mates' to look after them illegally.

[corkman]

Thailand has a serious labour deficit and without the thousands of foreign workers that are employed to do jobs that Thai's won't do, the place would rapidly grind to a halt! Construction workers, maids (both commercial and private), teachers, medical care, and GO's in various industries (fishing, farming, etc.), waiters and waitresses in restaurants, etc.

Thai's are glad of these workers, whether they realise it or not - but as soon as a handful of foreigners move in to what they see a good wage-paying positions, then its the end of the world.

[Locationthailand]

The only relevance I see in all this as a foreigner, is I employ me, I have a Non Imm B and Work Permit, pay some social security and live with my Thai wife and children. All else pales into self flagellation (verbal masturbation) over rules, regulations and disputes against Thai's. So why come here if you want to be 'illegal'. If you work within the system, which I do, you don't have any problems whatsoever. So Phuket foreigners - are no different to any foreigner here, a foreigner being a foreigner thus we all fit that category. Thai's integrate well with most unless you rub them the wrong way. Making a claim in the article of that - look forward to your retribution.

[Jimi007]

The only relevance I see in all this as a foreigner, is I employ me, I have a Non Imm B and Work Permit, pay some social security and live with my Thai wife and children. All else pales into self flagellation (verbal masturbation) over rules, regulations and disputes against Thai's. So why come here if you want to be 'illegal'. If you work within the system, which I do, you don't have any problems whatsoever. So Phuket foreigners - are no different to any foreigner here, a foreigner being a foreigner thus we all fit that category. Thai's integrate well with most unless you rub them the wrong way. Making a claim in the article of that - look forward to your retribution.

I have to agree with you. I have never had any problem with immigration or the police. I am doing what I am legally allowed to do and follow the rules, so no issues...

[Khun Robert]

I went on a reef clean up today. More than 100 Thais and from the 14 Dive centers in Ao Nang owned by foreigners there was zero participation as usual.

My friend, a tourist on holiday for 3 weeks, and me where the only farangs who participated in this clean up session.

If you do not want to immigrate in a country, complain whole day about the lack of experience, how lazy the Thais are etc etc can you expect the Thais will treat you will all the respect and regards because you bring in

a pension or take their jobs illegally?

If you go on holiday and want to speak your language, eat the same food your mother cooked, have the same standards as your house hold what the f... you call a holiday?

Before you immigrate in another country you can find lots and lots of information about the country, the rules, the scams etc etc.

If you stupid enough to think you are better than the Thais and want to live here and/ or work illegal well for me the Thais are much more educated than you.

In the last 2 weeks I've met 2 persons loosing the land and houses they build all in name of a Thai girl friend. Both men are warned several times by many people

to not put all in girls name. But they did not want to listing. Now complaints and bashing the Thais.

Inform yourself before you move to another country, get known with their rules and regulations. If they suit you life by it.

Stop complaining and bashing if you just followed your d... who had a good time during your holiday and give you the feeling you can live and/or work in another country.

[Bikkii]

I feel this topic will quite quickly follow suit of one posted earlier 'I'm still the farang', could be wrong but can feel it!

[BrianCR]

"They are working because there are opportunities to do so, opportunities provided from a general capacity for foreign nationals to have greater social mobility. This is the world as it stands in 2013. Why they are working is an easy question to answer, why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreign workers to work legally is another."

Thailand makes it very easy for foreign nationals to legally work - much easier than other countries make for Thai nationals to do the same. If people want to work without visa/work permit here then, perhaps they should contact their own governments at home and tell them to introduce laws that allow Thai nationals to get an easy visa and work as they wish in that country

[lemoncake]

Nice article. ...To be translated into Thai and published in a Thai newspaper, as many articles 'made by and for foreigners should be read by the locals !

Locals read newspapers? since when?

[andreandre]

Nice article. ...To be translated into Thai and published in a Thai newspaper, as many articles 'made by and for foreigners should be read by the locals !

Locals read newspapers? since when?

Either you don't actually live here, or you don't get out and about too much......i've observed many Thais [from security guards and taxi drivers through to management people ] reading the daily newspapers regularly..

Edited May 5, 2013 by andreandre

[lemoncake]

Nice article. ...To be translated into Thai and published in a Thai newspaper, as many articles 'made by and for foreigners should be read by the locals !

Locals read newspapers? since when?

Either you don't actually live here, or you don't get out and about too much......i've observed many Thais [from security guards and taxi drivers through to management people ] reading the daily newspapers regularly..

You right, i do not live here

[bonobo]

If you go on holiday and want to speak your language, eat the same food your mother cooked, have the same standards as your house hold what the f... you call a holiday?

Under this logic, then no one would travel to countries other than those which speak their home language. Why shouldn't a Russian, Brazilian, Saudi, Italian, etc. not want to come on a holiday to the beaches of Phuket if they don't speak Thai or one of the languages that can be readily found in the Thai tourist industry?

Like it or not, if an area relies on tourism, and if they want to keep their customers happy, then they need people who speak their language. If Russians are coming, then there needs to be Russian-speaking guides to assist them. If Thais dont speak Russian, in this case, then they need to bring in Russian speakers to service those tourists.

I look to the tourist places in Europe and the USA where you can get guides who speak most of the languages that incoming tourists speak as an example.

These imported guides should apply for their work permit, of course, and be legal and above ground.

[gray42]

Is there a shortage of jobs in Thailand that make foreign workers a threat? I've been here for a while and I don't get that impression. What I do see is a general cracking down of white illegals and turning a blind eye to the Cambodian and Malaysian illegals who work for half the wage of Thais. If you're trying to "protect the Thais" then you're cracking down on the wrong people! Coming from Southern California, I've seen what happens to farming and labor jobs when you turn a blind eye to the cheap, illegal workers. They go away.

Edited May 5, 2013 by gray42

[surfinglife]

What?? "Certain foreigners want to see Russian dancers"??!! In Thailand??!! There are hundreds of clubs in Moscow where those certain foreigners can oggle Russian flesh 24/7. But they should not be coming to THAILAND with that expectation. What next? Chinese dancers? Korean dancers? Indian? Polish? Ugandan? What Thailand needs is rich tourists from those countries, not the "camp followers" from the bowels of those societies.

[LivinLOS]

They are needed on Bangla Road, as there are a certain section of foreigners who desire to see their performances. It’s a simple case of foreign supply and demand.

So you would support this justification for drug dealers too ???

If something is illegal its illegal, just because people want it, doesnt change the law or should change its enforcement.

[richard10365]

How Thailand will stand in 2015, with the establishment of the open-border Asean Economic Community, remains to be seen.

It'll never happen.

Well, maybe by 2020 if you're lucky.

2015 is not the beginning of the AEC process, it is the end of the process. ASEAN has been moving towards the AEC since 2008 and they are more than 80% complete.

What I think is happening in Phuket, is foreigners from non-ASEAN countries are being moved out so ASEAN businesses can move in.

ASEAN business are already moving into Bangkok. I went to a briefing last week in Chiang Mai and a Thai official told the group of 400 Thai businessmen and women that a Vietnamese company sent its employees to study Thai for a year in Bangkok. After a year, the Vietnamese company started a business that was majority owned (70%) by the Vietnamese. They can do this because of that part of the AEC has already been fulfilled. By 2015, all of the AEC's goals will have been completed.

So you can pretend it won't happen all you want. ASEAN doesn't care what you think. They have goals and objectives they are completing. The AEC will happen in 2015.

Edited May 5, 2013 by richard10365

[ronthai]

Don't see why TV made this an EDITOR'S PICK (Must Read) in the newsletter email, because it has nothing new then what has been said already so many times in so many topics.

Edited May 5, 2013 by ronthai

[navara]

As a Farang you are supposed to bring the money, in any way that's possible. Further there are no other interests in a farang, even he could teach a lot in any field to improve the quality of this country. I have to say that it is not everywhere like this, there are places in this country where things are really different. But Not in the tourist dependent places.

I am sorry if I offend somebody, it's an general thing.

[atlbravosfan]

Sounds to me like an article written by someone who wants to get a job in a restricted occupation, or the owner of the club referred to moaning...3 paragraphs about topless dancers and a threat that the arrested ones will be replaced by others by the weekend. "Russian" entertainers, absolutely vital to the Thai economy.

Regarding the reception the grandparents of the Chinese-Thais received here generations ago, that's irrelevant to todays Thailand.

And the reference to working foreigners not being a drain on the Thai welfare system is nonsense, How are foreigners ever going to be a drain on Thai welfare resources, working or not?

Surely if foreigners choose to go to a country for a holiday where they know that they don't speak the local, or the international language, and that the locals don't speak their language, then their decision to visit that country should bear that disadvantage in mind? They should not expect to be able to import their 'mates' to look after them illegally.

First of all, it has everything to do with everything. It reminds me of how people in America act and have acted before. I don't know if you have seen the movie 'Gangs of New York,' but you see immigrants and children of immigrants claiming to be 'Natives' who despise all these newcomers to their land. How quickly people forget where they came from. How quickly the oppressed becomes the oppressor.

Secondly, how do you know that every person who brings their 'mates' to look after them does so illegally? Many of the businesses operated by and employing foreigners do so legally. Even legal businesses run by foreigners are enough of a problem that Thais here in Phuket protest to the point the business owners no longer feel safe in their own place. And why do they protest? The Bang Tao protests happened because the tuk-tuk drivers were upset the Russians already had their own rides and could no longer be ripped off egregiously. I'm sorry... maybe if you didn't steal people's money, people would actually want to use your services.

For a Buddhist country, I see a lot of people who don't understand Right Livelihood.

[thhMan]

Foreign restrictions are only in place because (i am exaggerating here), Thais are useless and a comparison of a Thai and a Foreigner will see some distinct issues.

Thais know that they are superior (in Thailand), because the laws and situations always favor them. SO they can work half-assed and with as much respect for a tourist as they feel is needed.

A foreigner knows about life outside of their own country and knows about tourism and the importance of the "customer is always right" philosophy

A Thai has a mindset of "it will be ok", so when you order a pepsi, getting a coke will do, because its "close enough"

A foreigner will tell you there is no coke and will suggest an alternative

Then there is the Thai genders... Females can adapt (some don't and are amazing rude), where males having been raised as superiors, find that at maturity, they are failures and end up as some form of a taxi driver. Then their egos jump in and as failures, all they can do is protest about "its not fair"....

Im sure some long timers here can add a million other things...

However, its not just Thailand
Now.. back in Oz... kids are growing up with useless parents and are now feeling superior because its the Govt, that has stepped in, removed many parental rights and giving kids the right of appeal... No more sending little johnny to his room or end up with a knock on the door from child welfare.... So now the respect is gone and on maturity, these kids show the same disregard to jobs and other people.....

--- end of exaggeration ---

If Thais learn more about other cultures, learn how to interact with foreigners and learn how to deal with tourist situations, then I am sure, there will be more of them working in the Tourist industry... but this will only happen if you wipe out the Thai nonsense that they grow up with

Edited May 5, 2013 by thhMan

[pacovl46]

Nice article. ...To be translated into Thai and published in a Thai newspaper, as many articles 'made by and for foreigners should be read by the locals !

Only to be completely rejected by the general Thai population. I hate to say this, but most Thais aren't capable of logic thinking, they think with their hearts. From their point of view the bad, bad foreigners are stealing their jobs, which means less income, which in turn means less money to support their families, and so on and so forth.

The biggest problem, though, is their mai pen rai attitude and saving face.

Most Thai tour guides speak broken English which is almost impossible to understand for most foreigners. Therefore tourists book tours with someone who preferably speaks their own language, simply because they paid money for the tour and therefore want to able to understand what their tour guide is telling them. On top of that there's a large number of people coming to Thailand who don't even speak English well enough. The Thai tour guides who do speak English are of no use to them. Instead of tour operators addressing the problem by its root and seeing to it that their guides are actually able to speak the required language good enough, the "mai pen rai" attitude takes effect, as long as the money keeps rolling in. And when the money stops then they go on the barricades, protesting, attacking, destroying property and demanding all foreigners to be expelled. Where's the logic in that???

You need to wake up and begin to address problems logically by their roots and then make the necessary changes. If you want people to book your tours, you have to have someone who speaks English reasonably well. Get some guides who can speak Russian, German or the languages where the majority of tourists come from and people will gladly book your tours.

Thailand is an amazing country with beautiful landscapes, islands and great food. I've been living here for 10 years now and I fell in love with this place. Thais in genreal are really nice and welcoming people with a great sense of humor. Much better than the humor people have in Germany, let me tell you that. Of course Thailand has shortcomings in comparison to the western world, but in my opinion the advantages outweigh them by far. If I could change 2 things about this country, it would be doing away with "saving face" and lowering the "mai pen rai" attitude considerably!

[harrry]

I went on a reef clean up today. More than 100 Thais and from the 14 Dive centers in Ao Nang owned by foreigners there was zero participation as usual.

My friend, a tourist on holiday for 3 weeks, and me where the only farangs who participated in this clean up session.

If you do not want to immigrate in a country, complain whole day about the lack of experience, how lazy the Thais are etc etc can you expect the Thais will treat you will all the respect and regards because you bring in

a pension or take their jobs illegally?

If you go on holiday and want to speak your language, eat the same food your mother cooked, have the same standards as your house hold what the f... you call a holiday?

Before you immigrate in another country you can find lots and lots of information about the country, the rules, the scams etc etc.

If you stupid enough to think you are better than the Thais and want to live here and/ or work illegal well for me the Thais are much more educated than you.

In the last 2 weeks I've met 2 persons loosing the land and houses they build all in name of a Thai girl friend. Both men are warned several times by many people

to not put all in girls name. But they did not want to listing. Now complaints and bashing the Thais.

Inform yourself before you move to another country, get known with their rules and regulations. If they suit you life by it.

Stop complaining and bashing if you just followed your d... who had a good time during your holiday and give you the feeling you can live and/or work in another country.

Possibly they were scared of losing their work permits for doing something outside their jobs. I do not think cleaning the environment is mentioned on their work permits.

[overherebc]

Nice article. ...To be translated into Thai and published in a Thai newspaper, as many articles 'made by and for foreigners should be read by the locals !

Locals read newspapers? since when?

Either you don't actually live here, or you don't get out and about too much......i've observed many Thais [from security guards and taxi drivers through to management people ] reading the daily newspapers regularly..

I once read 'War and Peace'. It's about Russia.

[Headgame]

If you go on holiday and want to speak your language, eat the same food your mother cooked, have the same standards as your house hold what the f... you call a holiday?

Under this logic, then no one would travel to countries other than those which speak their home language. Why shouldn't a Russian, Brazilian, Saudi, Italian, etc. not want to come on a holiday to the beaches of Phuket if they don't speak Thai or one of the languages that can be readily found in the Thai tourist industry?

Like it or not, if an area relies on tourism, and if they want to keep their customers happy, then they need people who speak their language. If Russians are coming, then there needs to be Russian-speaking guides to assist them. If Thais dont speak Russian, in this case, then they need to bring in Russian speakers to service those tourists.

I look to the tourist places in Europe and the USA where you can get guides who speak most of the languages that incoming tourists speak as an example.

These imported guides should apply for their work permit, of course, and be legal and above ground.

Really? You can't be serious or have traveled very extensively. The only language of international travel is English. Russian speaking tour guides readily available in the US? LOL.

If you travel, you learn English.

[Kularion]

Sounds to me like an article written by someone who wants to get a job in a restricted occupation, or the owner of the club referred to moaning...3 paragraphs about topless dancers and a threat that the arrested ones will be replaced by others by the weekend. "Russian" entertainers, absolutely vital to the Thai economy.

Regarding the reception the grandparents of the Chinese-Thais received here generations ago, that's irrelevant to todays Thailand.

And the reference to working foreigners not being a drain on the Thai welfare system is nonsense, How are foreigners ever going to be a drain on Thai welfare resources, working or not?

Surely if foreigners choose to go to a country for a holiday where they know that they don't speak the local, or the international language, and that the locals don't speak their language, then their decision to visit that country should bear that disadvantage in mind? They should not expect to be able to import their 'mates' to look after them illegally.

And this sounds to me like some ignorant Thai person who would like to think that Thailand is middle of the world and everybody should speak Thai... Just to let you know most of the cities in the countries around the world where main income is generated from tourists got workers who can speak at least proper English if not some other languages... and if they can't they give job to foreigners.

I would like to see what Phuket would do if really all tourists who "choose to go to a country for a holiday where they know that they don't speak the local, or the international language, and that the locals don't speak their language, then their decision to visit that country should bear that disadvantage in mind" decided that they are not happy with this "disadvantage" and change their holiday destination...

Btw I'm not English and don't live in Phuket

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I went on a reef clean up today. More than 100 Thais and from the 14 Dive centers in Ao Nang owned by foreigners there was zero participation as usual.

My friend, a tourist on holiday for 3 weeks, and me where the only farangs who participated in this clean up session.

Did you have a work permit to do this work?

If not, you and your tourist friend were breaking the law, liable to arrest a deportation, just as bad as the arrested Russians.

I'm guessing no other foreigners participated because they obey Thai law.

[cup-O-coffee]

I think the word opportunities has been mentioned. The word opportunity is a word that your average Thai takes and drives so far into the ground that it loses all meaning and becomes useless to that Thai or any other Thai who comes along and sees its twisted, mutilated husk lying on the ground.

The gist I got out of this article is about opportunity, and that it is there in front of our faces every day, and what we do with it.

Nothing stops people from picking up a primer and learning to read. Nothing stops a person from listening to their teachers and learning. Nothing stops someone from getting off their ass and doing, instead of complaining about it or blaming someone else. Nothing stops a person from slowing down a bit, instead of speeding up and killing ones self and the 10 other passengers riding along. Nothing except a person who makes a choice.

Opportunity and choice people! That is what the article is about. It amazes me that so many foreigners do exist here with all the impediments placed constantly before them.

Maybe what the author is saying is that we have a better sense of making the right choices, instead of always going where there is least resistance and destroying everything in our path.