Thai Woman Claims American Man Sexually Exploited Her, Seeks Justice From U S Embassy

[Jingthing]

I have just received a PM suggesting to me that the lady complainant in this case has a very sympathetic case (though no additional facts were mentioned).

From the news released here we obviously don't have the benefit of ALL (or even much) of the facts in the case and any comments here by anyone should probably be taken with that understanding of limited knowledge. That said, what's up with the American embassy stunt and what's up with Gay Nathee's involvement?

[Jingthing]

It's easy to speculate when you don't have all the facts. I'll reserve final judgments but I am comfortable feeling disapproval of involving the embassy or Gay Nathee whose politics I usually find incoherent, moralistic, and strange.

As far as people commenting here further, well this is an internet forum and people make comments without all the facts here all the time. Not sure this should be different. That's a decision people will need to make themselves.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[JDGRUEN]

Well - I am signing off following this thread topic... I never was a fan of American Soap Operas nor of the emotional attachment that some get caught up in.. A complete comedy of the absurd it has become. Logic is overcome by emotion, hidden agendas abound, whispered secrets, offended heroines, offending cads - such tripe... and waste of time...

[metisdead]

A nonsense post has been removed as well a post getting a little too close to libel/defamation.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Please correct me with any pertinent links etc.

There are no court charges filed? criminal or civil? Statements or depositions recorded?

The victim is asking for justice from the Consulate. Does anyone know what they are specifically asking for?

The legal spokesman in front of the Consulate for the victim was holding some legal looking document. Has anyone seen or read this document?

Was anything released to the press other than the linked story we have read?

Is this common in Thailand? In the US it's legal 101 to file everything possible before alerting the accused.

This seems so backwards but maybe I just don't understand Thailand.

[Chiangmai1]

hey all!

I happen to know the guy in question. and the story is quite different.

The guy is well known to be a sociopath. Filling very frivolous lawsuits etc. against various people. and I heard that a judge told him something like

"Thai people like to compromise. it is possible that Thailand is not the place for you". you can guess what the court thought on him..........

Now, i have sweet talked women before. There is a huge difference between dating games and the case as far as i can gather.

The claim here being that the guy has intentionally promised her marriage without any real intention to do so.

With the whole ad thing, the middle woman etc. it is not a dating game. It is a well planned and meant to scam.

[Jingthing]

Wow.

Diagnosed a sociopath by an anonymous poster on an internet forum. Is this accuser a qualified psychiatrist?

Also an unconfirmed report of what a Thai judge said which actually didn't sound all that damning, just a rhetorical question.

It seems clear of course the accused "scammer" has enemies in his community and of course that might well be deserved. But this dating game accusation, was there a Thai law broken, or not?

Be clear. I am not suggesting the accused is a saintly individual. When there's smoke, there's fire, and all that jazz. I am suggesting this trial (and now a psychiatric diagnosis) by internet forum of an IDENTIFIABLE person crosses a line of ethics.

Innocent or not, if this was being done to YOU on an internet forum, in a case where it isn't even clear any laws were broken or any charges or arrests made, would you consider that fair and reasonable?

Edited May 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[Chiangmai1]

Jingthing,

I was just pissed by some comments here suggesting it is kind of some innocent man sweet talking.

[ThaiSold]

Damn, I could get sued a million times over if this were the case.

[ThaiSold]

Wow.

Diagnosed a sociopath by an anonymous poster on an internet forum. Is this accuser a qualified psychiatrist?

Also an unconfirmed report of what a Thai judge said which actually didn't sound all that damning, just a rhetorical question.

It seems clear of course the accused "scammer" has enemies in his community and of course that might well be deserved. But this dating game accusation, was there a Thai law broken, or not?

Be clear. I am not suggesting the accused is a saintly individual. When there's smoke, there's fire, and all that jazz. I am suggesting this trial (and now a psychiatric diagnosis) by internet forum of an IDENTIFIABLE person crosses a line of ethics.

Innocent or not, if this was being done to YOU on an internet forum, in a case where it isn't even clear any laws were broken or any charges or arrests made, would you consider that fair and reasonable?

I've asked police in Thailand about this before. They say it is illegal to deceive a girl into sex. Cops can book you on that charge, whether they have a case or not when it goes to trial would be another thing. If you don't have bail money you'll be in Jail until the case is heard. A woman scorned can cause you all kinds of grief in Thailand.

[justcruisin]

This news headline from Kaosod a Thai news site is revealing, it states that the lady in question was raped.

As most Thai news reporting it is not substantiated but non the less interesting!

Apologies if linking a news site on here is not allowed, I read the rules but was unable to ascertain if this is allowed or not. If disallowed mods, feel free to delete.

http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNMk9EWXdNVGM1TXc9PQ==&sectionid=TURFd01BPT0=

[Jingthing]

He lied about his age in a personal ad?

Ready the guillotine!

This story has it all.

It should be picked up by the international press.

Personal ads.

Lying about your age in personal ad/dating situation. (Nobody does that!)

Acting like you have big business when you don't by having a lady answer the phone. (Nobody does that!)

Charges of rape seemingly related to marriage promises implied in the ad, etc.

(BTW, rape is a serious charge, were the police notified?, is she REALLY saying this was FORCED sex because it certainly does not sound like forced sex, does it?)

Attempt at a extreme expansion of the normal definition of sex trade / human trafficking, etc.

Imperialism and Xenophobia -- bad Americans moving to "third world" countries to "rape" the women.

Gay Nathee, the world needs to hear about that interesting morality guy, he'll break some stereotypes, he's kind of like a gay Jerry Falwell (Moral Majority)

Caveat: it this really WAS rape in the sense of forced sex, that's totally different, and of course such charges should be pursued and prosecuted.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[katana]

I think there may be some translation error on the word rape. The other news articles I saw didn't give that impression. All the Thai versions of the story I've seen, including the one in Khaosod dated 15/05/13, state it was consensual, but she only agreed because of a promise of marriage, so she feels tricked.
One Thai story did use the word rape in the headline, but later on in the article went on to say it was consensual. Sometimes the headlines are sensationalised like that, the real story only being revealed later on in the article.

Edited May 21, 2013 by katana

[Jingthing]

Understood.

Perhaps there is merit to the accusation of trickery. If such trickery is illegal under Thai law, so be it. Have there been charges filed with the police or not, and if not, that seems to indicate it might not actually be illegal. If the intention was merely to get REVENGE on the man for his alleged trickery by outing him in the press, mission accomplished.

It's not as if these lured by a personal ad ladies (if there were multiple ones) were being recruited into the sex trade. That's kind of bizarre. What would be traded? Marriage? Marriage seen as equivalent to payment for prostitution? The plot sickens.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[Sheryl]

One aspect of this not mentioned is that, from the point of view of US Immigration law, the woman may have been attempting what could be considered immigration fraud. And had the man kept his promise, he would have too.

Persuading someone to have sex through promises you don't keep is not a criminal offense in the US (though it is frowned on as crass/unsporting), but marrying for the purpose of getting a visa or naturalization is. Odds are it would have been spotted since one of the things they examine closely is the length of time a couple knew each other prior to marriage.

Anyhow it is a good bet her name is now on file and that married or not in future she will find it hard to ever get a US visa.

As to whether or not there is a criminal law in Thailand that would pertain to this circumstance, I have no idea. That she agreed to marry this man on the same night she first met him would, one would think, rather weaken her case. ...can hardly claim to have had her affections trifled with etc. More like she agreed to a commercial transaction in exchange for sex and he didn't pay up. But maybe that's just the westerner in me talking.

[justcruisin]

I would think this "gentleman" Mr James Dean H. would know better not to get his name in print on websites that would put his elementary school that he owns in jeopardy.

The mere fact that he is (allegedly) coercing sex from ladies here in Thailand would make big news in the local paper and have all the mums taking the kids out.

Innocent until proven guilty is not a policy generally adopted by the media or police here and maybe the Judge at one of his illustrious court cases had it right when he stated that maybe "Thailand is not the right place for you".

Good luck to him whatever the outcome. I'm surprised he hasn't been on here to defend himself.

[Chiangmai1]

Never heard he owns a school.

Dean H. is not part of his real name........

Edited May 25, 2013 by Chiangmai1

[justcruisin]

Never heard he owns a school.

Dean H. is not part of his real name........

Yes you are correct his name is Buckner, the website had it incorrect.

[Chiangmai1]

Never heard he owns a school.

Dean H. is not part of his real name........

Yes you are correct his name is Buckner, the website had it incorrect.

was it a mistake of the website? or he posted a fake name intentionally in the ad?

[KRS1]

her ATM didnt work so she went straight for the bank.

[cup-O-coffee]

Bizarre! Very bizarre! The woman degrades all other women's issues which bear truthful legitimacy. She is a blight to their cause simply by the sheer irony and cheekiness with her regard to who gets to have sex with her and on what conditions.

[Chiangmai1]

Bizarre! Very bizarre! The woman degrades all other women's issues which bear truthful legitimacy. She is a blight to their cause simply by the sheer irony and cheekiness with her regard to who gets to have sex with her and on what conditions.

The million dollar question is what kind of deceit was used here.

IF it was a highly planned lie (the complicit Thai secretary etc.) with clear promises made dishonestly - then the woman is right.

IF this guy just offered a date with blurred ideas and she felt he lied, its an inflated case.

I have no details of the case itself. The only thing I know is the behavior of the guy with other people. Judged by this, he has most likely been highly deceitful.

[binjalin]

Stickmans weekly column 'lying to get laid' this week just about gets it right (I am not allowed to post the link)

[Jingthing]

How could you ever prove that he wasn't open to marry SOME woman? Obviously he isn't going to marry just ANY woman and as a free men he's entitled to change his mind before the deed is done.

[Chiangmai1]

one can promise marriage, and one can say it is a very tentative date.

This is why humans have a mouth. and there was a thai woman setting it all up.

If the complaining woman is accurate, the message was very different from what it was.

I have no problem whatsoever with confusing dating situations and blurred statements.

The claim here is that the guy made a relatively clear statement which was far from his intention.

[Jingthing]

This is kind of silly.

Man says: I will marry you, now lets have sex.

Suppose the sex is horrible.

He is still supposed to marry her?

[Jingthing]

Bizarre! Very bizarre! The woman degrades all other women's issues which bear truthful legitimacy. She is a blight to their cause simply by the sheer irony and cheekiness with her regard to who gets to have sex with her and on what conditions.

Not quite the way I would put it, but yes there are some very serious and legit women's issues in Thailand that clearly deserve attention.

[Chiangmai1]

This is kind of silly.

Man says: I will marry you, now lets have sex.

Suppose the sex is horrible.

He is still supposed to marry her?

IF this guy meant it, than ok.

in our case, it smells strongly that he never meant it in any serious way.

btw, they had sex twice, so there does not seem to be a complaint upon first trial

[wolf5370]

The problem here is they need to prove that his intent was to deceive (like showing it is recurrent) - his obvious argument was that at the time there was no deception as he really did intend to marry her based on their online relationship, but as time went on in her company he decided that they were not right for each other and rather than stringing her along (which would perhaps be using her for sex), he did the manly thing and ended it.

Can't see this going anywhere in the courts - or with the US Embassy either. Carpet, sweep.

[justcruisin]

How could you ever prove that he wasn't open to marry SOME woman? Obviously he isn't going to marry just ANY woman and as a free men he's entitled to change his mind before the deed is done.

Agreed BUT if the agent Thai girlfriend sets up on dates for HIM on an internet dating site for multiple ladies on a daily/ weekly basis, will he will change his mind before or after the ACT!

SOME Almost all woman don't like to get played by telling porkys from a prospective suitor that states that marriage is imminent with absolutely no intention

Som num na/Caveot Emptor to the guy as there is a great choice of good women in this country who he should know don't like cheating husbands or prospective B/Fs