the real news story back in the U.K. today that some wish to ignore or maybe they'd rather you not see !

Who do you think might wish to ignore that story?

It's been posted previously and commented upon.

Do you have any comments on the burning of mosques by EDL supporters?

Extremists on both sides are aching for a fight.

It is the innocents who will suffer; regardless of their race, religion or politics.

'Twas ever thus.

the real news story back in the U.K. today that some wish to ignore or maybe they'd rather you not see !

Who do you think might wish to ignore that story?

It's been posted previously and commented upon.

Do you have any comments on the burning of mosques by EDL supporters?

Extremists on both sides are aching for a fight.

It is the innocents who will suffer; regardless of their race, religion or politics.

'Twas ever thus.

oh, you are so right yet again !

but yet choose to ignore the difference. i.e. both of these sets of thugs went out with the intent of causing actual bodily harm or even worse and in the case of the Woolwich killers, did just that.

name one murder committed by the EDL ? the only thing that they have done is to express their freedom of speech, in when i last looked was a democratic society.

something which the 6 that have been sentenced today clearly wanted to do by circulating hatred about the queen of the land that they live in and also saying that they would kill members of the EDL in the name of Allah.

i rest my case !

jog on .............

Burning mosques?

Burning a school?

But I get you; in your blinkered view all Muslims are fanatics who want to convert as many as they can and kill the rest.

The EDL and their leader are knights in shining armour fighting the good fight to save us all from this fate.

To me, both the Muslim fanatics and the EDL and all those like them or who support them or just excuse them are vermin and thugs who are beneath contempt.

Sadly extremists at both end of the spectrum are praying for violence and mayhem.

Organizations such as EDL, and individuals who share their opinions and stances, would like to see a "clash of civilizations" break out as this would then enable them to stand up as the "protectors of the put upon" and seek to claim power. Islamist extremists are similarly praying for a reactionary backlash by uber-nationalists (led of course by an illegal immigrant (to the US at least) with ties to the PIRA, and multiple aliases and a rap sheet of street thuggery, petty criminality and attacking police officers plus his wife), as this would enable them to claim the high ground of defending an oppressed minority in need of protection, rather like the IRA/PIRA did in N.Ireland.

Bottom line, all extremists and their cheerleaders are scum who seek nothing more than creating havoc and misery to further their own sad little aims. Beware the peddlers of simple solutions to highly complex problems, they are sadly rarely as dumb as they seem...

To me, both the Muslim fanatics and the EDL and all those like them or who support them or just excuse them are vermin and thugs who are beneath contempt.

Radical Muslims have been murdering innocent civilians all over the world for decades and ask their supporters to commit terrorist acts. The EDL have killed no one and include minorities in their ranks. Whatever, you may think of the EDL, they are not in the same league as the murdering jihadists.

Four teenagers have been questioned about the muslim boarding school fire, directly after the police visited the school and interviewed staff and pupils.

I have found no other details yet, but have a feeling that these kids were pupils at the school - not a racially motivated crime at all, just stupid students.

But I may be wrong ...

One thing which nobody seems to have pointed out is that the Islamists are RELIGIOUS fanatics whereas the EDL, BNP etc are RACIST. I'm not sure which is worse, probably the religious fanatics.

Religious fanatics generally think their actions are a passport to Heaven. While obviously all posters on this thread think it is misguided to believe that murder will earn you an eternal reward, one can see their point. At least their target is something desirable.

Racist fanatics act for what reasons? Some sort of inferiority complex? Their target seems to be something completely negative.

I had never heard of the EDL before a few weeks ago, but from what I have read so far, they are not racists. They are against the Islamization of Great Britain, which I can understand. I am somewhat suspicious of some of their recruits, but am not sure that the organization itself is anything other than what it claims.

One thing which nobody seems to have pointed out is that the Islamists are RELIGIOUS fanatics whereas the EDL, BNP etc are RACIST. I'm not sure which is worse, probably the religious fanatics.

Religious fanatics generally think their actions are a passport to Heaven. While obviously all posters on this thread think it is misguided to believe that murder will earn you an eternal reward, one can see their point. At least their target is something desirable.

Racist fanatics act for what reasons? Some sort of inferiority complex? Their target seems to be something completely negative.

The EDL are not very convincing as racists considering they have both Sikh and Jewish divisions, not to mention a Muslim guy who attends their rallies. Besides all this Muslims are not a race so the word racist is a non-sequitur. It does get confusing though what with David Cameron being a member of UAF who actually have an Islamist as their second in command.

To me, both the Muslim fanatics and the EDL and all those like them or who support them or just excuse them are vermin and thugs who are beneath contempt.

Radical Muslims have been murdering innocent civilians all over the world for decades and ask their supporters to commit terrorist acts. The EDL have killed no one and include minorities in their ranks. Whatever, you may think of the EDL, they are not in the same league as the murdering jihadists.

Yet.

But it wont be long, I fear, before someone is killed when they burn a mosque or in another of their violent demonstrations.

Yaxley-Lennon, or what ever name the wife beater, police officer assaulting, attempted illegal immigrant to the USA, head butting football hooligan is using today, and his cronies are not interested in global politics; they are only interested in violence and have picked the Muslim community as an easy target.

I have yet to see his reaction to the group of his members who turned away from this path when invited into the mosque they were haranguing for tea; but I bet it wasn't pleasant!

Those who blame all Muslims for the actions of terrorists are as stupid as those who blamed all Irish for the actions of the PIRA; all Germans for the actions of Baader Meinhof, etc., etc.

I repeat; to me, both the Muslim fanatics and the EDL and all those like them or who support them or just excuse them are vermin and thugs who are beneath contempt.

The problems stem from the changing world, the onward march of science, travel, global industries and so on.

These cannot be stopped or turned back. The world is constantly evolving and will continue to do so. Regrettably our leaders, whether political or religious, or just teachers and the like, cannot keep up with these changes and cannot guide the masses who depend upon their clarity of thought and action.

When my father was born no one had flown in an aircraft. When I was born radio was in it's infancy and my father was reading about television, but had not yet made one. When my daughter was born a computer was held in a dust-free, air-conditioned room with the operators sitting outside in another office. There was no mobile phone, PC, X-box or a hundred other essential pieces of our civilisation.

I am currently writing a book on the developments of the twentieth century and it's effect on the different world societies. All these protest movements against the progress of the world will fail, but the damage they will do to the social fabric of current communities is influencing the way the development progresses, not really for the good of progress and the world in general.

But I have no solution. Better education would help, but first our leaders and teachers need to be educated and to exercise their brains, which unfortunately is not the case with the whole set of current people in power. We need philosophers more than politicians.

One thing which nobody seems to have pointed out is that the Islamists are RELIGIOUS fanatics whereas the EDL, BNP etc are RACIST. I'm not sure which is worse, probably the religious fanatics.

Religious fanatics generally think their actions are a passport to Heaven. While obviously all posters on this thread think it is misguided to believe that murder will earn you an eternal reward, one can see their point. At least their target is something desirable.

Racist fanatics act for what reasons? Some sort of inferiority complex? Their target seems to be something completely negative.

The EDL are not very convincing as racists considering they have both Sikh and Jewish divisions, not to mention a Muslim guy who attends their rallies. Besides all this Muslims are not a race so the word racist is a non-sequitur. It does get confusing though what with David Cameron being a member of UAF who actually have an Islamist as their second in command.

When I called them racists, I meant pro-white, anti-coloured. Curiously enough, some of the worst racists have been Western-educated Indians, which makes it all the more confusing. I think the emphasis on Muslims is that they are a convenient non-white target. Jews are sort of white; Sikhs have always been honorary white.

The problems stem from the changing world, the onward march of science, travel, global industries and so on.

These cannot be stopped or turned back. The world is constantly evolving and will continue to do so. Regrettably our leaders, whether political or religious, or just teachers and the like, cannot keep up with these changes and cannot guide the masses who depend upon their clarity of thought and action.

When my father was born no one had flown in an aircraft. When I was born radio was in it's infancy and my father was reading about television, but had not yet made one. When my daughter was born a computer was held in a dust-free, air-conditioned room with the operators sitting outside in another office. There was no mobile phone, PC, X-box or a hundred other essential pieces of our civilisation.

I am currently writing a book on the developments of the twentieth century and it's effect on the different world societies. All these protest movements against the progress of the world will fail, but the damage they will do to the social fabric of current communities is influencing the way the development progresses, not really for the good of progress and the world in general.

But I have no solution. Better education would help, but first our leaders and teachers need to be educated and to exercise their brains, which unfortunately is not the case with the whole set of current people in power. We need philosophers more than politicians.

I enjoyed that post, HB, because I'm the same age as you, and passed through the same period of change. The first time I watched TV was the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. My father refused to get one until he won one in a raffle... and watched it every night of his life thereafter.

Maybe Plato wasn't so far wrong with his philosopher-king, though his experiment in Syracuse was pretty disastrous.

Democratic systems lead to populist policies, which are invariably a mistake.

To me, both the Muslim fanatics and the EDL and all those like them or who support them or just excuse them are vermin and thugs who are beneath contempt.

Radical Muslims have been murdering innocent civilians all over the world for decades and ask their supporters to commit terrorist acts. The EDL have killed no one and include minorities in their ranks. Whatever, you may think of the EDL, they are not in the same league as the murdering jihadists.

Yet.

But it wont be long, I fear, before someone is killed when they burn a mosque or in another of their violent demonstrations.......snip

.

That is a dishonest supposition not supported by facts and Tommy Robinson has explicitly and repeatedly called for non violent protest. I take it you are keeping up with events such as tell Mama losing government funding for misleading and exaggerating the number of attacks on Muslims, a government minister confirmed the so called backlash was less than feared, as reported in the guardian. But their diversionary purpose evidently succeeds as we are yet again discussing ad nauseum the EDL and Muslim victim hood instead of the soldier decapitated in broad daylight by followers of a repugnant, racist, homophobic and misogynistic ideology. And quite frankly, to borrow your line, those who divert attention away from this vital issue to the UK fill me with contempt.

To me, both the Muslim fanatics and the EDL and all those like them or who support them or just excuse them are vermin and thugs who are beneath contempt.

Radical Muslims have been murdering innocent civilians all over the world for decades and ask their supporters to commit terrorist acts. The EDL have killed no one and include minorities in their ranks. Whatever, you may think of the EDL, they are not in the same league as the murdering jihadists.

Yet.

But it wont be long, I fear, before someone is killed when they burn a mosque or in another of their violent demonstrations.......snip

.

That is a dishonest supposition not supported by facts and Tommy Robinson has explicitly and repeatedly called for non violent protest. I take it you are keeping up with events such as tell Mama losing government funding for misleading and exaggerating the number of attacks on Muslims, a government minister confirmed the so called backlash was less than feared, as reported in the guardian. But their diversionary purpose evidently succeeds as we are yet again discussing ad nauseum the EDL and Muslim victim hood instead of the soldier decapitated in broad daylight by followers of a repugnant, racist, homophobic and misogynistic ideology. And quite frankly, to borrow your line, those who divert attention away from this vital issue to the UK fill me with contempt.

Indeed, have you seen these few run down old buildings that have been "targeted".

It would not surprise me if it's a DIY job and claim on the insurance for a nice new shiny "religious education" centre/ mosque.

CCC

Steely Dan

I use the media, mainly the BBC, as my source, not some self appointed self interest group.

Yaxley-Lennon (which is his legal name, not Tommy Robinson nor any of his other aliases; why does he need so many?) is a violent convicted thug, you cannot deny that.

I am not, and never have been, attempting to divert any attention away from Drummer Rigby's murder (why don't you ever use his name; don't you know it?) nor to excuse it in any way.

It is Yaxley-Lennon and his thugs who are desecrating Drummer Rigby's memory by using his murder as an excuse for their violence.

You seem to think this is OK, I don't!

CCC,

A burnt out building will look a bit run down!

Some people in certain parts of England might see an inconsistency with how police handle the EDL and the MDL.

What inconsistencies do you see from your perch 6000 miles away?

Videos of MDL trotting round London and Dewsbury. Looked for Woking but obviously 7% is a bit low for them to get aggressive./ You seem to like that 6000 number. Do you have it as a tat?

So what illegal activities were they performing?

Or do you think that because they have a different view to you that is enough to stop them from demonstrating?

Woking is about 25 miles from Central London and about 200 from Dewsbury; a lot closer than your perch in Thailand.

I suspect that your assertion is, like the one you made about the Dewsbury local paper reporting someone slaughtering animals in the street, to be completely false.

you know what <deleted> it!

i had a big post all written out, but then thought what's the point. (playing on a dodgy wicket with a crook of an umpire anyway)

some members of this forum will know exactly what i mean.

And some members are not about to see this go the same route. The last one was closed for a very good reason. Don't make me close this one for the exact same reason.

I had never heard of the EDL before a few weeks ago, but from what I have read so far, they are not racists. They are against the Islamization of Great Britain, which I can understand. I am somewhat suspicious of some of their recruits, but am not sure that the organization itself is anything other than what it claims.

Before you get too smitten with the delightful EDL have a read of these, relatively straight up pieces:

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/who-are-the-english-defence-league-and-are-they-fascist

http://faith-matters.org/images/stories/fm-reports/english-defense-league-report.pdf

Those are interesting links. It seems that much of the negative hoopla about the EDL is based on pure speculation. I have to admit that their association with football hooligans is what makes me most skeptical about them.

Meanwhile, back on topic. A Muslim (One of the tiny minority no doubt) slashed his two friends with a knife after they voiced support for Lee Rigby.

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10468731.Man_alleged_to_have_slashed_friends_after_they_voiced_support_for_Woolwich_victim__Lee_Rigby/

The accused is Sudanese without even sufficient English to enter a plea, just the sort of culture enrichment this Country needs. In other news a video circulated from one of the festering holes of extremism, aka a UK university, alleged the murder did not happen and was a conspiracy to make Muslims look bad. Thus far 300,000 of the tiny minority have watched the video.

Meanwhile, back on topic. A Muslim (One of the tiny minority no doubt) slashed his two friends with a knife after they voiced support for Lee Rigby.

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10468731.Man_alleged_to_have_slashed_friends_after_they_voiced_support_for_Woolwich_victim__Lee_Rigby/

The accused is Sudanese without even sufficient English to enter a plea, just the sort of culture enrichment this Country needs. In other news a video circulated from one of the festering holes of extremism, aka a UK university, alleged the murder did not happen and was a conspiracy to make Muslims look bad. Thus far 300,000 of the tiny minority have watched the video.

Nothing happens everyday, It's only a small minority and they are working alone.

There are an estimated 2,869,000 Muslims in the United Kingdom.

One percent of that total is 28,690.

Ten percent of 28,690 is 2,869.

One tenth of one percent is a fairly insignificant percentage, yet in this case it comes to 2,869 potential Islamic extremists.

Perhaps enough to worry about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

The numbers game is always misleading. It doesn't take a lot of people to do a lot of damage. Remember Anders Breivik?

There are nuts on both sides of the fence. One difference, perhaps, is that the Islamic culture, with Sharia law in the background even if it is not imposed, perhaps encourages violence against your opponents more than the Western Judaeo-Christian culture (what's left of it). Yet such Muslims as I have known at all well (not many of them) have tended to be very peacable people.

What worries me most is the Muslims who support the radicals without getting involved themselves - so far.

Meanwhile, back on topic. A Muslim (One of the tiny minority no doubt) slashed his two friends with a knife after they voiced support for Lee Rigby.

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10468731.Man_alleged_to_have_slashed_friends_after_they_voiced_support_for_Woolwich_victim__Lee_Rigby/

The accused is Sudanese without even sufficient English to enter a plea, just the sort of culture enrichment this Country needs. In other news a video circulated from one of the festering holes of extremism, aka a UK university, alleged the murder did not happen and was a conspiracy to make Muslims look bad. Thus far 300,000 of the tiny minority have watched the video.

Nothing happens everyday, It's only a small minority and they are working alone.

Here's a gang of Pakistanis taking a cricket bat to some teenage girls waiting at a bus stop in Ashton-Under-Lyme. Of course you don't have to worry about no go zones with racism against white people if you drink your chai latte in the guardian coffee shop then return home to leafy suburbia. I guess these animals would not have passed Norman Tebbit's cricket test.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3766/tensions_high_in_british_town_after_muslim_youths_attack_white_girls

P.S The video is only on liveleak, youtube took it down probably to avoid damaging community cohesion.