I know I said I wasn't going to post here anymore; but

Innocent people have nothing to fear. Except for unlucky ones.

Tell that to the Guildford four, the Maguire seven, the Birmingham six etc.; and those people had trials!

Guess they were just unlucky; so that's all right, is it?

Interment without trial worked really well in Northern Ireland, didn't it? (Sarcasm, if you hadn't noticed.)

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer"
Sir William Blackstone

Pol Pot is reputed to have amended that to "It is better that 100 innocent persons suffer than one guilty escape."

So, who do you agree with? An 18th century expert in jurisprudence or a 20th century mass murderer?

Those of you who have any historical perspective can reflect on how the Catholic Church behaved in the Middle Ages. People didn't dare criticise it, to its own severe detriment. Do you think the ordinary people supported the Inquisition? the burning of heretics under Queen Mary? (or indeed of Catholics under Elizabeth?) They certainly enjoyed the show, but that's not quite the same thing.

The current wave of Islamic terrorism in relation to the man-in-the-street Muslim is a parallel situation (in other words, Islam is still in the Middle Ages). There is one way in which modern Islam is worse than Renaissance Catholicism. The Catholic Church had central authority, and was able, slowly, and stage by stage, to do something about it. Islam has no central authority, and it's very difficult to see where reform can start.

People like the Boston bombers and the Woolwich murderers are loose cannons.... and that's the trouble; nobody can control them, not even their own co-religionists.

You make some very good points. Islam is for the most part pre-enlightenment and post Caliphate has no central authority. I would point out that Ahmadiyya Muslims are an exception having explicitly renounced violent jihad in the name of religion. The Ahamadiyya were the first Muslims to settle in the UK, no doubt grateful to escape persecution from their fellow Muslims of other sects. I have read several commentators point out that aside from the Ahmadiyya no Imam has come out explicitly stating that violent jihad no longer applies in the 21st century. Imho a western school of jurisprudence which does rule against violent jihad is badly needed and could form the syllabus for all Islamic education in the west.

MI5 & MI6 have are overwhelmed by Islamic extremism with thousands on the radar, the most threatening to immediate life under surveilance.

Some do slip through the net hence the decapitation of our soldier.

Suggestion without any references to history....

In one night hand the Islamists militants and preachers of hate over to Guantanamo for interogation and re-education.

Total media blackout!

Watch how the tidal wave of extremism dwindles to nothing.

Sorted!

CCC

I know I said I wasn't going to post here anymore; but

well do everyone a favour then and actually do what you say

MI5 & MI6 have are overwhelmed by Islamic extremism with thousands on the radar, the most threatening to immediate life under surveilance.

Some do slip through the net hence the decapitation of our soldier.

Suggestion without any references to history....

In one night hand the Islamists militants and preachers of hate over to Guantanamo for interogation and re-education.

Total media blackout!

Watch how the tidal wave of extremism dwindles to nothing.

Sorted!

CCC

Yes, we all know MI5 and MI6 have thousands under surveillance, but as you say, some slip through the net.

Who are all the militants? If we know 95%, we're still up a creek. Hate preachers are easier.... if only we could extradite them.

I'm afraid there's no easy answer, CCC.

I know I said I wasn't going to post here anymore; but

well do everyone a favour then and actually do what you say

Seeing how you have asked so nicely:

The security services are watching and investigating Muslim militants in the UK, and when they have enough evidence the suspects are arrested and put before a court.

For example UK trio jailed for preparing acts of terrorism.

But in a free democracy the security services or police cannot arrest people just because they think those people may be criminals; evidence which will stand up in court is required.

Though most of the posters in this topic appear to think that the rule of law shouldn't apply to people they don't like!

I know I said I wasn't going to post here anymore; but

well do everyone a favour then and actually do what you say

Seeing how you have asked so nicely:

The security services are watching and investigating Muslim militants in the UK, and when they have enough evidence the suspects are arrested and put before a court.

For example UK trio jailed for preparing acts of terrorism.

But in a free democracy the security services or police cannot arrest people just because they think those people may be criminals; evidence which will stand up in court is required.

Though most of the posters in this topic appear to think that the rule of law shouldn't apply to people they don't like!

Nope, the rule of law should apply to all and freedom of speech should equally apply to all. The Canadians passed a new law giving them more powers to detain terrorist suspects by the way, I think it's a step in the right direction.

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2013/04/canada-house-of-commons-passes-expanded-anti-terror-legislation.php

[JURIST] Canada's House of Commons [official website] on Wednesday approved a bill [s-7 materials] that provides expanded investigative powers and criminal penalties for terrorism related matters. The short title of the bill is The Combating Terrorism Act. The legislation permits law enforcement to hold individuals suspected of terrorist activities for three days without criminal charges and adds 12 months supervision for suspects released without a conviction. The bill also criminalizes leaving Canada to receive terrorism training or aid terrorist groups and strengthens the criminal penalties for terrorist acts created within Canada.

The UK has something very similar, Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005.

I know I said I wasn't going to post here anymore; but

well do everyone a favour then and actually do what you say

Seeing how you have asked so nicely:

The security services are watching and investigating Muslim militants in the UK, and when they have enough evidence the suspects are arrested and put before a court.

For example UK trio jailed for preparing acts of terrorism.

But in a free democracy the security services or police cannot arrest people just because they think those people may be criminals; evidence which will stand up in court is required.

Though most of the posters in this topic appear to think that the rule of law shouldn't apply to people they don't like!

This is a problem with most criminal activities - and these 'militants' are just that - criminals.

The police, and in some cases the other security services, have to wait until an offence has been committed in order to arrest and charge the perpetrators. Maybe the charge will be 'conspiracy to commit ...', but it is easier to watch the people in the conspiracy and catch them when they do actually commit whatever criminal act was involved.

This applies equally to bank robbery, drug smuggling, Islamic terror attacks or whatever you want. Hopefully the police / security forces will catch the perpetrators in the act, before serious harm is done, but sometimes this may not happen and the deed is done. Then there are screaming headlines about incompetence, bringing in new laws, strengthening existing laws and many other poorly researched articles to sell the media product.

The laws are there. The law-enforcers are in place. They are doing a pretty good job on the whole.

Regrettably if an individual tries to commit a criminal act on his/her own, without any discussion with anyone else, whether it be driving a car when unlicenced, smashing a glass into someone's face, shoplifting a bag of sweets from Asda or cutting off a soldiers head, there is little the law-enforcers can do until the deed is completed, because they have no prior knowledge.

How do we solve such problems?

Unfortunately we can't; not even by severely restricting the freedom of the general populace.

Not even the most despotic of dictatorships is crime free; although they may try to convince the rest of the world otherwise.

This time in Yorkshire

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344066/Man-20-appears-court-accused-beheading-18-year-old-woman-attacking-people-treated-hospital.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

This time in Yorkshire

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344066/Man-20-appears-court-accused-beheading-18-year-old-woman-attacking-people-treated-hospital.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

At the bottom of the page...

Sorry we are unable to accept comments for legal reasons

- Priceless

CCC

This time in Yorkshire

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344066/Man-20-appears-court-accused-beheading-18-year-old-woman-attacking-people-treated-hospital.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

At the bottom of the page...

Sorry we are unable to accept comments for legal reasons

- Priceless

CCC

From the link.

• Reema Ramzan suffered knife wounds, including her head being severed off

Unfortunate use of the word "Including". This is the UK in case the sheer shock and horror of it has numbed the senses. The poor, poor woman and her poor family.

What has this poor girls murder got to do with the murder of Drummer Rigby?

I suspect that the line 'This time in Yorkshire' is another feeble attempt to paint all Muslims as fanatical murderers; despite the fact that there have been no reports that her murder is connected to terrorism in any way!

My condolences to her family and friends, although they will hopefully never read this and see how their daughter's murder is being used in such a despicable way!

BTW, as the case has now come to court, comments have to be disabled; same would happen in any case; no matter the crime nor the accused.

Sorry to spoil your pathetic conspiracy theory.

What has this poor girls murder got to do with the murder of Drummer Rigby?

...

BTW, as the case has now come to court, comments have to be disabled; same would happen in any case; no matter the crime nor the accused.

I assume you mean that comments in the Daily Mail (or any other UK-based publication) must not be published as this may prejudice the trial. Not that comments in this or any other non-UK-based forum should not be published.

This is one aspect of the Internet that law-makers have big problems with - what jurisdiction does a published work on the internet come under? I can write something in the UK on a web-site registered in Russia, read by someone in China who replies using an American (AOL for instance) identity.

I would expect to comply with UK law (as several hackers have been prosecuted here for breaking UK law) but I would not expect to be prosecuted under US law. However the US will regard anyone anywhere in the world as prosecutable if they break US law, even if that person has never entered the US nor deliberately set out to break US law. Most people outside - and many inside - US borders do not know what US law states.

As a point of interest, in Saudi Arabia there have been approximately 50 state executions so far this year, for murder, rape or apostasy. Last year there were a total of (only) 76.

Both the victim and the alleged perpetrator in the Yorkshire case appear to be muslims, and I have a feeling that the fact that in many muslim countries the death penalty is still in force, and is carried out publicly, may have a small influence (or other similar word) on the thinking of the perpetrator, as he may have seen the state carrying out 'a just punishment' and he, the perpetrator, has considered that the victim is deserving of a similar 'just punishment'.

On my first tour in Saudi Arabia I went into Tabuk, the nearest main town, on a Friday to do some shopping. When the shops closed for noon prayers I was left in the open air going to my car. I was picked up by the mutawwa (religious police) and stuck in the front row of a large crowd outside the main mosque. I saw several whipping, with a cane, and an execution by beheading. Afterwards, during that tour and the subsequent other four, I made sure I was well away when Eriday noon prayers finished. These things are very public - most of the population attends, whether they want to or not. You have to be seen by your neighbours as witnessing the justice of the state.

What has this poor girls murder got to do with the murder of Drummer Rigby?

...

BTW, as the case has now come to court, comments have to be disabled; same would happen in any case; no matter the crime nor the accused.

I assume you mean that comments in the Daily Mail (or any other UK-based publication) must not be published as this may prejudice the trial. Not that comments in this or any other non-UK-based forum should not be published.

Correct.

As for the motive, we will have to wait and see what the accused says at his trial; if anything.

What has this poor girls murder got to do with the murder of Drummer Rigby?

...

BTW, as the case has now come to court, comments have to be disabled; same would happen in any case; no matter the crime nor the accused.

I assume you mean that comments in the Daily Mail (or any other UK-based publication) must not be published as this may prejudice the trial. Not that comments in this or any other non-UK-based forum should not be published.

This is one aspect of the Internet that law-makers have big problems with - what jurisdiction does a published work on the internet come under? I can write something in the UK on a web-site registered in Russia, read by someone in China who replies using an American (AOL for instance) identity.

I would expect to comply with UK law (as several hackers have been prosecuted here for breaking UK law) but I would not expect to be prosecuted under US law. However the US will regard anyone anywhere in the world as prosecutable if they break US law, even if that person has never entered the US nor deliberately set out to break US law. Most people outside - and many inside - US borders do not know what US law states.

As a point of interest, in Saudi Arabia there have been approximately 50 state executions so far this year, for murder, rape or apostasy. Last year there were a total of (only) 76.

Both the victim and the alleged perpetrator in the Yorkshire case appear to be muslims, and I have a feeling that the fact that in many muslim countries the death penalty is still in force, and is carried out publicly, may have a small influence (or other similar word) on the thinking of the perpetrator, as he may have seen the state carrying out 'a just punishment' and he, the perpetrator, has considered that the victim is deserving of a similar 'just punishment'.

On my first tour in Saudi Arabia I went into Tabuk, the nearest main town, on a Friday to do some shopping. When the shops closed for noon prayers I was left in the open air going to my car. I was picked up by the mutawwa (religious police) and stuck in the front row of a large crowd outside the main mosque. I saw several whipping, with a cane, and an execution by beheading. Afterwards, during that tour and the subsequent other four, I made sure I was well away when Eriday noon prayers finished. These things are very public - most of the population attends, whether they want to or not. You have to be seen by your neighbours as witnessing the justice of the state.

What has this poor girls murder got to do with the murder of Drummer Rigby?

...

BTW, as the case has now come to court, comments have to be disabled; same would happen in any case; no matter the crime nor the accused.

I assume you mean that comments in the Daily Mail (or any other UK-based publication) must not be published as this may prejudice the trial. Not that comments in this or any other non-UK-based forum should not be published.

This is one aspect of the Internet that law-makers have big problems with - what jurisdiction does a published work on the internet come under? I can write something in the UK on a web-site registered in Russia, read by someone in China who replies using an American (AOL for instance) identity.

I would expect to comply with UK law (as several hackers have been prosecuted here for breaking UK law) but I would not expect to be prosecuted under US law. However the US will regard anyone anywhere in the world as prosecutable if they break US law, even if that person has never entered the US nor deliberately set out to break US law. Most people outside - and many inside - US borders do not know what US law states.

As a point of interest, in Saudi Arabia there have been approximately 50 state executions so far this year, for murder, rape or apostasy. Last year there were a total of (only) 76.

Both the victim and the alleged perpetrator in the Yorkshire case appear to be muslims, and I have a feeling that the fact that in many muslim countries the death penalty is still in force, and is carried out publicly, may have a small influence (or other similar word) on the thinking of the perpetrator, as he may have seen the state carrying out 'a just punishment' and he, the perpetrator, has considered that the victim is deserving of a similar 'just punishment'.

On my first tour in Saudi Arabia I went into Tabuk, the nearest main town, on a Friday to do some shopping. When the shops closed for noon prayers I was left in the open air going to my car. I was picked up by the mutawwa (religious police) and stuck in the front row of a large crowd outside the main mosque. I saw several whipping, with a cane, and an execution by beheading. Afterwards, during that tour and the subsequent other four, I made sure I was well away when Eriday noon prayers finished. These things are very public - most of the population attends, whether they want to or not. You have to be seen by your neighbours as witnessing the justice of the state.

Interesting point you make on how modern communications can technically lead to a law being broken in one place from actions in another. To a degree it has always been so, with international IPO's information to prospective investors may be embargoed in different places until an appointed time specific to each. Of course such information could always be passed via fax or word of mouth, doing so would in effect be insider trading. When it comes to newspaper online comments the same applies where it is possible that someone reads comments about a local case which is sub judice in one Country but made under another jurisdiction. Aside from this there are other reasons, such as public order arguments as to why comments may be disabled, even when legal due process is complete.

As to your comments regarding beheading itself, well imho this is not what I would expect from a psychopath acting on the spur of the moment, rather from someone showing a degree of conscious premeditation. I guess only the trial itself may determine if this is so.

BREAKING NEWS-Another SAVAGE murder S.E. London

Mon, 17/06/2013 - 20:35

Yet another sickening murder in London by a Muslim happened over the weekend when a disabled wheelchair bound man had his throat cut.

Daha Mohammed, 51, of Abbotts Close, Thamesmead, was charged with the murder of Mr Colin Greenaway and appeared at Bexley Magistrates’ Court today. Colin was described as a ‘great neighbour and friend’ by Gary Cook, who resides in the flat above, and said he rushed down after one of his neighbour’s carers knocked on his doors in floods of tears on Saturday.

Colin aged 56, was confined to a wheelchair having had toes amputated due to gangrene.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/breaking-news-another-savage-murder-se-london

BREAKING NEWS-Another SAVAGE murder S.E. London

Mon, 17/06/2013 - 20:35

Yet another sickening murder in London by a Muslim happened over the weekend when a disabled wheelchair bound man had his throat cut.

Daha Mohammed, 51, of Abbotts Close, Thamesmead, was charged with the murder of Mr Colin Greenaway and appeared at Bexley Magistrates’ Court today. Colin was described as a ‘great neighbour and friend’ by Gary Cook, who resides in the flat above, and said he rushed down after one of his neighbour’s carers knocked on his doors in floods of tears on Saturday.

Colin aged 56, was confined to a wheelchair having had toes amputated due to gangrene.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/breaking-news-another-savage-murder-se-london

Careful, you'll be accused of being anti muslim producing facts.

BREAKING NEWS-Another SAVAGE murder S.E. London

Mon, 17/06/2013 - 20:35

Yet another sickening murder in London by a Muslim happened over the weekend when a disabled wheelchair bound man had his throat cut.

Daha Mohammed, 51, of Abbotts Close, Thamesmead, was charged with the murder of Mr Colin Greenaway and appeared at Bexley Magistrates’ Court today. Colin was described as a ‘great neighbour and friend’ by Gary Cook, who resides in the flat above, and said he rushed down after one of his neighbour’s carers knocked on his doors in floods of tears on Saturday.

Colin aged 56, was confined to a wheelchair having had toes amputated due to gangrene.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/breaking-news-another-savage-murder-se-london

Careful, you'll be accused of being anti muslim producing facts.

Correct, facts are facts. Perhaps best not to link to the BNP website as it makes for too easy to source police. Here is a local newspaper with basically the same material facts.

http://www.bexleytimes.co.uk/news/court-crime/man_charged_with_disabled_thamesmead_resident_colin_greenway_s_murder_1_2238777

BREAKING NEWS-Another SAVAGE murder S.E. London

Mon, 17/06/2013 - 20:35

Yet another sickening murder in London by a Muslim happened over the weekend when a disabled wheelchair bound man had his throat cut.

Daha Mohammed, 51, of Abbotts Close, Thamesmead, was charged with the murder of Mr Colin Greenaway and appeared at Bexley Magistrates’ Court today. Colin was described as a ‘great neighbour and friend’ by Gary Cook, who resides in the flat above, and said he rushed down after one of his neighbour’s carers knocked on his doors in floods of tears on Saturday.

Colin aged 56, was confined to a wheelchair having had toes amputated due to gangrene.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/breaking-news-another-savage-murder-se-london

Careful, you'll be accused of being anti muslim producing facts.

Yes - some will think that... but when the motive is revealed we may be able to see if this is what has come to be called "Sudden Jihad Syndrome"... Whether this was an act of terror similar to the OP or not is only one issue. Whether it is a reflection of the perpetrator's mindset that Western laws do not apply to them and need not to be followed is another. Just settle grievances in the manner seen or heard about - as was done in the 'old country' seems to be part of the problem.

We have this problem in the U.S. with the huge number of non Muslim 'immigrants' known as illegal aliens. A significant portion of these illegal migrants do not in any real way assimilate into the established American culture. Openly refusing to learn the language, abusing the benefits systems, displaying defiant sullen attitudes, burning our national flag is common place In a number of instances they just solve problems in the same lawless manner than they brought with them from whence they came. They often seem oblivious to the consequences of such serious crimes as rape or pedophilia and even the necessity of abiding by vehicle and housing regulations. Abiding by prevailing law just seems to escape them All the while they expect American culture to bend to them. And unfortunately far too many misguided bleeding hearts do just that

I suspect that much of the resentment direct towards Muslims in England is due to situations similar to what I just described above. Refusal to properly assimilate, not learning or using the predominate local language, not accepting established codes, mores and customs, etc., will never endear immigrants or their descendants to the hearts of the natives.

If a significant portion of Western Expats in Thailand ran their daily lives in a fashion aggressively contrary to established Thai culture and law - displaying an 'in your face attitude' as many Muslims do in England and as many Muslims and Hispanic Illegal Aliens do in the U.S. - then I think we all know what would happen ... In such a scenario - most likely the number of Western Expats in Thailand would be progressively reduced each year until the problem corrected itself. Old Expats would die off and fewer and fewer Expats of any age would be allowed entry.

This is where the much-vaunted 'multicultural society' under previous governments - and our current one - has enabled the politically correct (according to their own PC ideas) to condemn those who speak out against these alien practices.

If I go to work in Saudi Arabia I follow their rules and customs.

When I work in Indonesia I adjust my ways to conform to their attitudes and customs.

Then Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, libya and many others - all with differing approaches to life and social behaviour that I learn and follow as best I am able.

Regrettably I was raised in the UK, then a civilised country, and thought that it was correct to behave as my host would wish. If I had been raised in any of these countries that are the source of most immigrants, then I would be able to do exactly as I wished in the UK and say 'That is my custom. You must let me do what I want or you will be prosecuted as a racist.' Stupid, isn't it?

http://www.news-republic.com/Web/ArticleWeb.aspx?regionid=4&articleid=11174566

Michael Adebolajo has been 'repeatedly targeted' in jail

Some good news

CCC

http://www.news-republic.com/Web/ArticleWeb.aspx?regionid=4&articleid=11174566

Michael Adebolajo has been 'repeatedly targeted' in jail

Some good news

CCC

From your link.

In an interview with the Observer, Jeremiah Adebolajo revealed that his 28-year-old elder brother had been subject to numerous "hostile" incidents involving staff since he arrived at Belmarsh, one of the country's top-security jails, two months ago. He said that although Adebolajo did not want to highlight the frequency of abuse he had been subject to, last Wednesday's alleged assault had changed the family's stance, highlighting their concern that Adebolajo did not feel safe inside the jail.

Quite frankly I would be concerned if he did.