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Posted

Russian news agency Interfax and Radio Ekho Moskvy reported that Snowden was booked on a flight to Cuba and then from Havana to Caracas, Venezuela. The next Aeroflot flight to Havana leaves Monday afternoon. Ecuador and Iceland have also been mentioned as possibilities.

As reported by Washington Post.

Shall we have a Jingthing poll as to Eddie the Traitor's final destination?

a) Cuba

B) Venezuala

c) Iceland

d) Ecuador

e) Somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean if he gets shoved out of a plane.

Cuba and Venezuala may be "hostile" but they do want to get along with the USA and are not looking for a fight over someone like this. Iceland won't do it as the country still needs the USA. I doubt Snowden gets offed until he gets to his destination. My bet is on Ecuador.

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Posted (edited)


Really Chuck? I wonder what it's like to be a miserable old tool.

Facts is, Russia let him in country without a Visa. Visa process is a pain there so obviously Putin's guys are letting him come in to see what he has got. Why would such a patriotic guy be willing to give Russia what he got?

Perhaps he has nothing useful, but Russia wants to thumb nose at and embarrass US. Perhaps he has something Russia can use.

But again, my point was Russia will drop him like a hot potato once they get what he has or once they believe they have sufficiently thumbed their nose at US. Why not address point rather than attack my personal knowledge of Russia.


he was escorted by diplomats and probably got for himself a temporary diplomatic status. Everything is possible.
it was also hinted by the Kremlin to give him asylum.

Exactly my point. He could not get on Aeroflight without Visa unless Putin regime says so. For Putin regime to say so, he has to offering: (1) Some information much more useful than we know about; (2) Putin is just letting him in temporary to embarrass Obama administration; or (3) He has a whole lot of money to pay key people.

Under 1 and 2, Russia will quickly lose interest in him and use him nothing more a pawn for publicity. They won't protect him.
let's see how the story unfolds and let's be surprised.

And by the way, real eastern european passports are available from private sources also... not expensive. totally deniable.


Yes, for sure. Will be ingesting to see how this resolves. A lot of moving parts and, getting back to my original point before everyone digressed, Snowden may have some info we don't know about and his motives and predicament may be far from patriotic.

We are only hearing his side and US not likely to go on media at this time and start talking really sensitive stuff if such was taken. Perhaps a lot more going on than we will ever know about, perhaps not. Edited by F430murci
Posted

It's good to know since we no longer need our China expert, we have a Russian expert on hand to help us over the hard times.

Stick around, but I think we need to look for a South American expert pretty soon.cheesy.gif

Really Chuck? I wonder what it's like to be a miserable old tool.

Facts is, Russia let him in country without a Visa. Visa process is a pain there so obviously Putin's guys are letting him come in to see what he has got. Why would such a patriotic guy be willing to give Russia what he got?

Perhaps he has nothing useful, but Russia wants to thumb nose at and embarrass US. Perhaps he has something Russia can use.

But again, my point was Russia will drop him like a hot potato once they get what he has or once they believe they have sufficiently thumbed their nose at US. Why not address point rather than attack my personal knowledge of Russia.

"Facts is, Russia let him in country without a Visa."

Facts is (sic) how do you know he even left the airport and entered the country?

Facts is (sic) you don't need a visa if you are in transit and never leave the airport.

Facts is (sic) you don't know any more about it than any of the rest of us.

Just another fact is I married a Thai woman and have lived in Thailand for over 25 years and I still don't understand Thai women or Thailand.

It's fun sometime being a miserable old tool. Maybe you'll get to enjoy it when you get out of puberty.thumbsup.gif

  • Like 1
Posted

It's good to know since we no longer need our China expert, we have a Russian expert on hand to help us over the hard times.

Stick around, but I think we need to look for a South American expert pretty soon.cheesy.gif

Really Chuck? I wonder what it's like to be a miserable old tool.

Facts is, Russia let him in country without a Visa. Visa process is a pain there so obviously Putin's guys are letting him come in to see what he has got. Why would such a patriotic guy be willing to give Russia what he got?

Perhaps he has nothing useful, but Russia wants to thumb nose at and embarrass US. Perhaps he has something Russia can use.

But again, my point was Russia will drop him like a hot potato once they get what he has or once they believe they have sufficiently thumbed their nose at US. Why not address point rather than attack my personal knowledge of Russia.

he is on transit. he isn't in russia.

Meaning??? Russian Visa is not like Thailand Visa where you just jump on an airplane, arrive at terminal they stamp your passport.

Both my 20 month old daughter with Russian mom and I had to receive an invitation from mother-in-law in Russia, that was notarized and on special forms. The forms initially were notarized, but not on the correct special forms and got rejected. We had a very difficult time finding a notary with correct forms and ended, as usual, paying someone off to get it done correctly. This was for a 3 year multi entry so maybe tourist is not as difficult, but I imagine the process is the same for shorter tourist visa.

Candidly, I have never been through such a pain in the butt process and expensive process just to get a Visa.

never heard of "transit"?

he is on stopover, will leave soon. for that he don't need a visa for russia.

Posted

IIRC, when someone lands at an airport, if he stays in the secure area, he isn't considered to have entered the country. He doesn't have to show a passport or visa, for instance. He's just passing through a secured area. If he leaves that area, then the reverse is true. Otherwise, people would need a visa every time they changed planes in a routine stop in any random country.

So I'm not sure (don't think) that his stop in Russia was officially entering the country as a matter of practicality. I don't think that he or you or I would have to prove anything or grease any palms to make a change of planes in virtually any country as we all often do when we travel. I'm not sure that his passport is even needed except when he boards originally (Hong Kong) and then ends his trip to go through customs at his final destination.

I could be wrong because I'm only going on personal experience of having passed through a lot of countries and airports en-route to somewhere else.

I think it is only for less less than 12 hours if he is on Russian soil or changing planes. I think one needs soemthing called a transit Visa even if not leaving the airport.

Posted (edited)
Publicus, aren't you tired of "beating around the bush?" tongue.png

Meanwhile, Snowden's reported choice to fly to Cuba and Venezuela undermines his whistle-blower claims, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said on Sunday

These are thought through moves.

Cuba for a reason as mentioned above from a poster.

Venezuela for ... guess what. Yes, it's true, the construction of these nation to be hostile to the US to move in after the job in the Middle East and one or two in Africa are finished. I follow that up and read between the lines for years. Watch out for the next couple of days, it will all come to light.

What are they talking and try to manipulate there? - it flies right over the peoples head now, - everywhere.

The senate hearing was canceled to an unspecific date. Why? Waiting for what> More jokes?

Edited by wealth
Posted
Really Chuck? I wonder what it's like to be a miserable old tool.

Facts is, Russia let him in country without a Visa. Visa process is a pain there so obviously Putin's guys are letting him come in to see what he has got. Why would such a patriotic guy be willing to give Russia what he got?

Perhaps he has nothing useful, but Russia wants to thumb nose at and embarrass US. Perhaps he has something Russia can use.

But again, my point was Russia will drop him like a hot potato once they get what he has or once they believe they have sufficiently thumbed their nose at US. Why not address point rather than attack my personal knowledge of Russia.

he is on transit. he isn't in russia.

Meaning??? Russian Visa is not like Thailand Visa where you just jump on an airplane, arrive at terminal they stamp your passport.

Both my 20 month old daughter with Russian mom and I had to receive an invitation from mother-in-law in Russia, that was notarized and on special forms. The forms initially were notarized, but not on the correct special forms and got rejected. We had a very difficult time finding a notary with correct forms and ended, as usual, paying someone off to get it done correctly. This was for a 3 year multi entry so maybe tourist is not as difficult, but I imagine the process is the same for shorter tourist visa.

Candidly, I have never been through such a pain in the butt process and expensive process just to get a Visa.

never heard of "transit"?

he is on stopover, will leave soon. for that he don't need a visa for russia.

I think a transit isa is required if there longer than 12 hours, chnaging planes or passing thorugh immiration for any reason.

Posted

Since Snowden has now left the PRC, HKSAR and the PVC, may we assume that any posts relating to those subjects are henceforth and forevermore off topic?

If he ain't there, who cares about their politics?beatdeadhorse.gif

For the 3rd time. HK could not have extradited him as the charges he is facing in the US are not illegal in HK. They must be illegal in both the US AND HK for him to be extradited.

He was safe in HK, from extradition anyway. But may have received a better offer from another country.

I know that simple concept doesn't float with the tin foil hat brigade.

For the umpteenth time, the CCP has a standing policy that it decides in any matter that it determines to affect the military or foreign policy of the People's Republic of China. The CCP has absolute sovereignty over the PRC Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong. Snowden is suddenly gone. What happened to the prolonged legal battles in Hong Kong over extradition, asylum? No such battles were going to be allowed by either Beijing or the Hong Kong SAR.

Beijing told Hong Kong to get Snowden the hell out of there and fast, which is what happened. This is what I repeatedly have said would happen.

You and I can keep going back and forth on this point. You are limited in your knowledge and comprehension of the CCP-PRC. You also have been proved wrong by the fact of Snowden fleeing Hong Kong, i.e., the PRC, after Snowden had said to the South China Morning Post that he'd arrived in HKG to stay, or until the HKG SAR government asked him to leave. Washington, then Beijing, simply made HKG too hot a place for him to remain.

In Hong Kong yesterday, gone today.

Finis.

You can re-read my post if you like, and kindly note the final word, "Finis."

You do read all the posts, right? Right.

Posted
Publicus, aren't you tired of "beating around the bush?" tongue.png

Meanwhile, Snowden's reported choice to fly to Cuba and Venezuela undermines his whistle-blower claims, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said on Sunday

These are thought through moves.

Cuba for a reason as mentioned above from a poster.

Venezuela for ... guess what. Yes, it's true, the construction of these nation to be hostile to the US to move in after the job in the Middle East and one or two in Africa are finished. I follow that up and read between the lines for years. Watch out for the next couple of days, it will all come to light.

What are they talking and try to manipulate there? - it flies right over the peoples head now, - everywhere.

Fox news Republicans are right now bashing all of his choices and sayint the only reasons these countries would allow him is because they believe they can get something out of him. Also, saying he is picking countries that are anti press freedom which flies directly in the face of what he says he stands for.

  • Like 1
Posted

It's good to know since we no longer need our China expert, we have a Russian expert on hand to help us over the hard times.

Stick around, but I think we need to look for a South American expert pretty soon.cheesy.gif

Really Chuck? I wonder what it's like to be a miserable old tool.

Facts is, Russia let him in country without a Visa. Visa process is a pain there so obviously Putin's guys are letting him come in to see what he has got. Why would such a patriotic guy be willing to give Russia what he got?

Perhaps he has nothing useful, but Russia wants to thumb nose at and embarrass US. Perhaps he has something Russia can use.

But again, my point was Russia will drop him like a hot potato once they get what he has or once they believe they have sufficiently thumbed their nose at US. Why not address point rather than attack my personal knowledge of Russia.

"Facts is, Russia let him in country without a Visa."

Facts is (sic) how do you know he even left the airport and entered the country?

Facts is (sic) you don't need a visa if you are in transit and never leave the airport.

Facts is (sic) you don't know any more about it than any of the rest of us.

Just another fact is I married a Thai woman and have lived in Thailand for over 25 years and I still don't understand Thai women or Thailand.

It's fun sometime being a miserable old tool. Maybe you'll get to enjoy it when you get out of puberty.thumbsup.gif

Lived in Thailand for 25 years and yet obsceesed about the US and a professed expert on US current affairs. Russian is not as complex as Thailand. Everything is really in your face there and Russians were their emotins on their sleeves. Not much face saving double talk always wondering what people really think, feel or believe.

Candidly, though . . . My only point about Russian motivations is simply common sense and something being said over and over by Republicans and Democrats alike all morning. Not 5 minutes ago, a guy on Fox was saying the same stuff about the Visa isse, Russian motivations and what is driving those motivations.

Posted

Be very interesting in days to come as to what info gets out there.

I imagine there is a lot of head banging going on in the corridors of power in the US

Posted

Perhaps this a completely liberal rag. I dunno becasue I don't read al ot fthese sources.

How does revealing that the US spied on Russia further “the public interest” of anyone other than Vladimir Putin?

Remember, Snowden chose to work at the CIA and the NSA – our top two spy agencies. He knew quite well what he was getting into. And the notion that the United States spies on Russia, or that Britain spies on foreign summit delegates, is hardly earth-shattering “oh my god I have to leak this” news. Having said that, evidence of such spying is not usually publicly confirmed either. Nor was it terribly helpful (for us - it was quite helpful for the Russians) for Snowden to detail the manner in which the Brits spied on foreign delegates.

I can perhaps accept Snowden’s sincerity for leaking the news that Verizon was providing all of its customer calling data to the NSA, and the details of the PRISM program. But with these additional revelations about the US, Britain, Russia and the Commonwealth, Snowden moves beyond his initial claim of blowing the whistle on the threat the surveillance state poses to the democracy he loves. Our democracy won’t suffer one bit from the US spying on Russia (it might even be helped), or the Brits spying on the Commonwealth.

http://americablog.com/2013/06/edward-snowden-nsa-russia-medvedev.html

Posted

Be very interesting in days to come as to what info gets out there.

I imagine there is a lot of head banging going on in the corridors of power in the US

For sure. I wonder if we will see photos or proof that he is indeed in Ecador anytime soon? Is announcing your moves while on the run such a great idea?

Fox news guys were just bashing Obama for not doing enough to force countries like China and Russia to turn him over . . . They are pretty much saying guy crossed the line and his patriotic mtives no longer seem so genuine.

Posted

@lomatopo

He's cleared passport control in Moscow. He's in Russia.

He's a fool for doing that. He's a cowardly rat running for the sewer. If he was a man at all he would have flown back to Washington and fought the good fight.

He would have landed to a media frenzy, millions of Americans sympathetic to him would have rallied behind him. He would have become an American Hero for many, A Martyr For Freedom.

He would have caused the US authorities an even bigger problem by returning voluntarily, he would have had the greatest stage ever to express his views.

Even if he had been jailed he would have went down as a Martyr For Freedom to many.

Now he's just another cowardly rat looking for a sewer.

The point I made was

Any sympathy that some people may have had for him will disappear when he's pictured in Moscow.

My point stands.

Posted

His motives for doing this are of no concern to me. What is of concern is what certain govts are doing and I thank Snowden for letting me know this info.

I see the US revoked his passport on Saturday and are perplexed how he has been able to travel.

Good updates on the Guardian website.

Posted

It's good to know since we no longer need our China expert, we have a Russian expert on hand to help us over the hard times.

Stick around, but I think we need to look for a South American expert pretty soon.cheesy.gif

We probably have someone who eat once an organic salad at a Venezuelan fusion food restaurant in New York.

I once threw a dart at the map of the world and it landed on Venezuela.

Or it could have been Vanuatu. I was quite young.

Three of 'em will do that very young. I think you said you drank three last night too. Reliably consistent eh? smile.png

Meanwhile, it is a sobering fact about Snowden that now he's shopping around for countries that have a state controlled authoritarian press/media. Still, I'd bet they'd be happy to publish any further disclosures he may have.

The Russians don't really want him, they've been talking and now taking actions just to try to tick off the U.S. government.

If Snowden is going to Venezuela, the government likely will be happy to buy him the technology that will allow him to cyber attack NSA and the USA in general. Nice guy, Snowden. Give him a computer he can use to hack and he's your friend for life. Unless of course you happen to be the United States Government or a contractor of it.

Posted

@lomatopo

He's cleared passport control in Moscow. He's in Russia.

He's a fool for doing that. He's a cowardly rat running for the sewer. If he was a man at all he would have flown back to Washington and fought the good fight.

He would have landed to a media frenzy, millions of Americans sympathetic to him would have rallied behind him. He would have become an American Hero for many, A Martyr For Freedom.

He would have caused the US authorities an even bigger problem by returning voluntarily, he would have had the greatest stage ever to express his views.

Even if he had been jailed he would have went down as a Martyr For Freedom to many.

Now he's just another cowardly rat looking for a sewer.

The point I made was

Any sympathy that some people may have had for him will disappear when he's pictured in Moscow.

My point stands.

What makes you think he wants to be a martyr and wants all that publicity. Perhaps he just wants this info out in the public and this is the only way he can escape the crap that he will get.

As to your 'point stands'. Just what do you know about what he did in Russia to make your point stand. Do you have some inside knowledge?

His passport was revoked on Saturday, he was in Moscow for a few hours in transit. He was at a capsule hotel within the airport in Moscow. Now on to Ecuador.

So from that limited information, you have a point that stands? How extraordinarily perceptive.

  • Like 2
Posted

It's good to know since we no longer need our China expert, we have a Russian expert on hand to help us over the hard times.

Stick around, but I think we need to look for a South American expert pretty soon.cheesy.gif

We probably have someone who eat once an organic salad at a Venezuelan fusion food restaurant in New York.

I once threw a dart at the map of the world and it landed on Venezuela.

Or it could have been Vanuatu. I was quite young.

Three of 'em will do that very young. I think you said you drank three last night too. Reliably consistent eh? smile.png

Meanwhile, it is a sobering fact about Snowden that now he's shopping around for countries that have a state controlled authoritarian press/media. Still, I'd bet they'd be happy to publish any further disclosures he may have.

The Russians don't really want him, they've been talking and now taking actions just to try to tick off the U.S. government.

If Snowden is going to Venezuela, the government likely will be happy to buy him the technology that will allow him to cyber attack NSA and the USA in general. Nice guy, Snowden. Give him a computer he can use to hack and he's your friend for life. Unless of course you happen to be the United States Government or a contractor of it.

Um, I have no idea what your first sentence means. 3 of em will do that when very young,,,,3 of what? Darts? Read again, I said I once threw A dart.

As for the rest of the crap you write, at the risk of repeating myself. He is going to Ecuador, not Venezuela. He hasn't been 'shopping around' as you put it. It was pre planned.

Read updates at the Guardian, it is very good.

Posted (edited)

Lyndsey Graham just said on Fox Snowden is a criminal, has harmed the US, comrpised our security and needs to be sent back for prosecution. He said there should be consequences to Russia for assisting Snowden. Mike Lee from Utah not in Snowden's corner either.

Edited by F430murci
Posted (edited)

'Edward Snowden 'banned from flying to UK'

The Associated Press news agency reported seeing a document at a Thai airport telling carriers to stop Edward Snowden, 29, boarding any flights.

The travel alert - reported to feature a Home Office letterhead - said Mr Snowden "is highly likely to be refused entry to the UK".

source = http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22902098

I am sure he will be welcome in Ecuador or at any of their embassy's (just needs to bring his own camp bed).

I was only Joking...

But:

According to the BBC, "Edward Snowden, the former US intelligence contractor who leaked classified documents revealing US internet and phone surveillance, has asked Ecuador for asylum."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23023576

Edited by Basil B
Posted

Snowden on way to Ecuador . . .

Being escorted by diplomats and Wiki people.

well done wikileaks, well done Ecuador. So no more use for our visa expert from Nizgny Novgorod.

someone knows how to bbq guinea pigs?

All that started over me simply disagreeing with someone's statement that Moscow would take him in and proect him from the US. That was all and then you guys go freakin neurotic syaing I don't have a clue. If he already left Moscow, then I was right. If not and he is still there without a Visa, then we will have to see what happens once is no longer of an utllity to Russia who I said would care nothing about him unless he has a LOT of money.

Posted (edited)

It's good to know since we no longer need our China expert, we have a Russian expert on hand to help us over the hard times.

Stick around, but I think we need to look for a South American expert pretty soon.cheesy.gif

*Deleted post edited out*

Over to you jingthing!

Edited by Scott
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Lyndsey Graham just said on Fox Snowden is a criminal, has harmed the US, comrpised our security and needs to be sent back for prosecution. He said there should be consequences to Russia for assisting Snowden. Mike Lee from Utah not in Snowden's corner either.

*Deleted post edited out*

Nope. That is toally cool. I all for US government hacking all the other countries to death. They do it to US. The 4th Amendment concerns that I care about are warrantless searches and unauthorized government intrusion on US citizens in the US.

Edited by Scott
  • Like 1
Posted

Russian news agency Interfax and Radio Ekho Moskvy reported that Snowden was booked on a flight to Cuba and then from Havana to Caracas, Venezuela. The next Aeroflot flight to Havana leaves Monday afternoon. Ecuador and Iceland have also been mentioned as possibilities.

As reported by Washington Post.

Shall we have a Jingthing poll as to Eddie the Traitor's final destination?

a) Cuba

cool.png Venezuala

c) Iceland

d) Ecuador

e) Somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean if he gets shoved out of a plane.

Cuba and Venezuala may be "hostile" but they do want to get along with the USA and are not looking for a fight over someone like this. Iceland won't do it as the country still needs the USA. I doubt Snowden gets offed until he gets to his destination. My bet is on Ecuador.

I agree Ecuador has been sheltering Assange for a long time now ... so they are into this sort of thing

Posted

Lyndsey Graham just said on Fox Snowden is a criminal, has harmed the US, comrpised our security and needs to be sent back for prosecution. He said there should be consequences to Russia for assisting Snowden. Mike Lee from Utah not in Snowden's corner either.

Criminal are the US spy and hacker activities in other countries.

Nope. That is toally cool. I all for US government hacking all the other countries to death. They do it to US. The 4th Amendment concerns that I care about are warrantless searches and unauthorized government intrusion on US citizens in the US.

And citizens of other countries.

Posted

Russian news agency Interfax and Radio Ekho Moskvy reported that Snowden was booked on a flight to Cuba and then from Havana to Caracas, Venezuela. The next Aeroflot flight to Havana leaves Monday afternoon. Ecuador and Iceland have also been mentioned as possibilities.

As reported by Washington Post.

Shall we have a Jingthing poll as to Eddie the Traitor's final destination?

a) Cuba

cool.png Venezuala

c) Iceland

d) Ecuador

e) Somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean if he gets shoved out of a plane.

Cuba and Venezuala may be "hostile" but they do want to get along with the USA and are not looking for a fight over someone like this. Iceland won't do it as the country still needs the USA. I doubt Snowden gets offed until he gets to his destination. My bet is on Ecuador.

I agree Ecuador has been sheltering Assange for a long time now ... so they are into this sort of thing

Hardly rocket science considering Wikileaks had arranged Snowden's travels.

Posted (edited)

Snowden on way to Ecuador . . .

Being escorted by diplomats and Wiki people.

well done wikileaks, well done Ecuador. So no more use for our visa expert from Nizgny Novgorod.

someone knows how to bbq guinea pigs?

All that started over me simply disagreeing with someone's statement that Moscow would take him in and proect him from the US. That was all and then you guys go freakin neurotic syaing I don't have a clue. If he already left Moscow, then I was right. If not and he is still there without a Visa, then we will have to see what happens once is no longer of an utllity to Russia who I said would care nothing about him unless he has a LOT of money.

Snowden is a high profile political case. behind the possibility to buy anything from a corrupt immigration officer.

He is using Russia for transit.

That Moscow considers to offer him asylum was in the news 10 days ago. looks like Snowden doesn't take that offer.

And you started with."Do you know anything about Russia" and then told us about your qualifications.

Yep, Moscow considers it until Snowden is of no benefit . . . Then perhaps they won't be consdering it any longer. Actually, you told me about studying Russia in school (during the cold war era???) and asked me what was the basis of my opinon about Russia. So not your being critical of my asnwering your question? Nice.

Edited by F430murci
Posted

Snowden on way to Ecuador . . .

Being escorted by diplomats and Wiki people.

well done wikileaks, well done Ecuador. So no more use for our visa expert from Nizgny Novgorod.

someone knows how to bbq guinea pigs?

All that started over me simply disagreeing with someone's statement that Moscow would take him in and proect him from the US. That was all and then you guys go freakin neurotic syaing I don't have a clue. If he already left Moscow, then I was right. If not and he is still there without a Visa, then we will have to see what happens once is no longer of an utllity to Russia who I said would care nothing about him unless he has a LOT of money.

Yes, and if the US did revoke its passport issued to him, Snowden would be travelling under some other clandestine arrangement. Maybe he's suddenly become a Russian or an Ecuadorian diplomat, tho many countries have different categories of passport.

Thaksin has his passport revoked but it is unusual for any government to do that. Even Assange did not have his Commonwealth passport revoked, it simply was allowed to expire on schedule. (Assange last year was given an Aboriginal Nations passport from some bunch in Australia, which with 5 pounds will get you a coffee at a London Starbucks.)

Or perhaps he just used his passport because the US was a bit slow off the mark to actually action the request.

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