When the lion and the mouse talk too much: Thai opinion

[webfact]

STOPPAGE TIME
When the lion and the mouse talk too much
Tulsathit Taptim

BANGKOK: -- Certain things are better left unsaid, or "unrecorded" as far as Thaksin Shinawatra is concerned. It's no secret how much he wants to return home a free man, but when people hear it on tape, the situation changes drastically. Now, what seemed like a brilliant plan to launch a political blitz for amnesty lies in jeopardy.

It doesn't matter whether it was his real voice, or whether it was doctored from a real recording. Even red-shirt leader Thida Thavornseth has admitted that the leak of the audio clip - purportedly a phone conversation between Thaksin and a senior defence official - has thrown the amnesty plan into great uncertainty. And one doesn't have to be a great political analyst to see why.

If it really is Thaksin's voice all the way through, it simply flies in the face of the claims that amnesty is not being pushed primarily for him. There are a few pointers in the dialogue as to what the real goal of the amnesty plan is. When an amnesty bill, or an amnesty executive decree - if the controversial conversation is to be taken seriously - comes up for debate in Parliament, all the opposition needs to do is re-read the script and let the two men in the tape deconstruct the amnesty plan's purported nobility by themselves.

If it is a doctored clip, there can be only one certain consequence: what was discussed can never happen. To be more specific, if an amnesty bill is rushed through the first, second and third parliamentary sessions as suggested in the dialogue, or turned into an executive decree, again as suggested in the dialogue, why did the person who doctored the tape bother in the first place? Such voice editing is meant to defame, right? It doesn't make sense to do voice editing simply to state factually what is going to happen.

Well, come to think of it, is it possible that someone who knew of the executive decree plan put the issue in the recording in order to discredit Thaksin? That's plausible. After all, having Thaksin talk about an executive decree on tape could sabotage the plan because it would sound like he wants to implement the executive decree for himself.

However, just because it's plausible doesn't mean that is what happened. Anyone who "doctored" the dialogue would have to first know about the executive decree scheme and gamble on the chance of Thaksin talking to a senior defence official on the phone about it, so the issue could be blended into the conversation in the smoothest manner. If Thailand's political war has become that technically sophisticated, any light at the end of the tunnel belongs to a train coming straight at us.

To sum it up, issuing an executive decree to effect an amnesty is a no-no for the government. Unless, of course, Prime Minister Yingluck has the audacity to make the dialogue a reality and claim that the "doctored" audio clip gave her a great idea. If she admits the tape is genuine, it would be equally awkward for her to go on and execute a plan described in lurid detail by her brother, and bring him home.

That the government has been unable to defend the dialogue speaks volumes. Nobody has come out and said, "What's wrong with Thaksin and a defence official discussing ways for a mouse to bring a lion home through an amnesty executive decree?"

Thaksin and amnesty are a cat and a ball of string. His "crime" - of allowing or condoning his family's successful bid for a big plot of state-auctioned land - is not unforgivable, but that does not seem to matter much now. In an attempt to undo that conviction, he has got himself caught in an entanglement increasingly sticky and complex.

He must have acknowledged that any amnesty plan that also covers himself is not that simple, or the ruling party would have received his green light to flex its parliamentary muscles and get it done a long time ago. Thaksin has seemed patient at times, but whenever he gets restless, the headlines are certain to feature the likes of Chalerm Yoobamlung and a leaked audio recording.

It might have been different if the contentious audio clip had highlighted Thaksin's opinion on how the amnesty would benefit others or bring about true reconciliation and political peace. If it's a doctored clip, the mastermind has succeeded in making him come across as selfish. If it's genuine, Thaksin and his dialogue partner only have themselves to blame. Of course, some things are better left unsaid, never mind struck from the record.


-- The Nation 2013-07-17

[bigbamboo]

Oh what a tangled web he weaves............

[ChrisY1]

Who cares/!!......

Thailands' fobia with this person is insane....he's a convicted crook on the run so to speak.....a gutless coward who lacks credibility nowadays!

[OzMick]

Yingluk could claim the tape gave her a great idea. Her brother sends her "great ideas" every day.

In fact it was their election motto - Thaksin thinks, his clowns jump.

Edited July 17, 2013 by OzMick

[Siripon]

Tulsathit seems to be implying Chalerm is involved with the clip, but as I said yesterday, some claim a reporter phoned Yuttasak whilst he was talking to Thaksin and he simply forgot to turn his phone off after talking to the reporter.

Yingluk is implicated in the plot too as Thaksin told Yuttasak to speak to her if there were any problems with the plan.

The Ombudsman should be informed of this clip to charge Yuttasak with malfeasance, putting the private interests of a convicted felon before the interests of the nation, as he is duty bound to do.

[Bellweather]

Isn't talking too much a prerequisite to be a Thai politician ? Luckily nowadays they can also run around shouting " lawsuit " more than usual

[Stradavarius37]

Is it wrong to wish that a sinkhole will take Thaksin while he's napping? Guy is nothing but trouble...

[TomTao]

The glue that holds this balsa wood government is slowly comonig unstuck, this audio clip is sure to have done damage to Taksin's political party, he and they are rapidly losing credibility, and if Moody's does downgrade Thailand's credit rating that will be another nail in the coffin.

[moe666]

Big T just cannot keep his trap shut. He has to say something about something which tends to be nonsense and it blows a hole in the plans or shines the spotlight on things that should stay in the shadows

[Skywalker69]

Oh what a tangled web he weaves............

He got stuck in his own web.

[Skywalker69]

Big T just cannot keep his trap shut. He has to say something about something which tends to be nonsense and it blows a hole in the plans or shines the spotlight on things that should stay in the shadows

Thaksin is Thaksins biggest enemy.

[ppmacready]

Who cares/!!......

Thailands' fobia with this person is insane....he's a convicted crook on the run so to speak.....a gutless coward who lacks credibility nowadays!

The majority of Thais believe ALL governments are corrupt.

I'd include the western governments.

The Thais accept Thaksin is corrupt.

The Thais accept yellow shirts are just as corrupt.

But Thaksin won the hearts of the people by improving the poor Thais lot.

The yellow shirts are not interested in doing this.

For example-

Before the yellow shirts only had to pay 200 baht a day, to have there toilets cleaned.

Now they have to pay 300.

The poor Thais are financially helped with their education by the red shirts.

Why educate our toilet cleaners? The yellow shirts.

I'm putting it in the simple terms how the Thais see it, not the way I see it.

The poor Thais except both red and yellow shirt governments are corrupt.

But the red shirt government is smart enough to give some crumbs back to the poor people, whilst helping themselves.

The yellow shirts have no understanding of, or willingness to understand anything about world history "Qu'ils mangent de labrioche"

Queen Marie Antoinette

[Monkeyrobot]

Who cleaned up the Ya Ba problem??? Mr T

[smutcakes]

If somone is going to lenghts to record a conversation they surely could find a better on than this.

This will die a death anyway, as people don't want the judge issue brought into the public again for scrutiny;

[Nickymaster]

And Thaksin's poor supporters who were made to do terrible things are still suffering from the consequences.

From the conversation between Thaksin and Yuthasak it becomes clear that there must be amnesty for Thaksin first before the protestors receive amnesty. They are basically held hostage by the guy they were helping to return to Thailand. Amazing.

[Nickymaster]

If somone is going to lenghts to record a conversation they surely could find a better on than this.

This will die a death anyway, as people don't want the judge issue brought into the public again for scrutiny;

I don't agree. This is one of the best conversations one could have wished for. This conversation has done a terrible amount of damage to Thaksin.

It is now clear that Thaksin is trying to make a deal with the military (yes, the evil trigger happy military that shot innocent Thaksin supporters according to Thaksin, the red shirt leaders and their fancy mouthpiece Robert Amsterdam).

Anybody surprised why they haven't invited the ICC to investigate what happened in Thailand in 2010?

If I would be a hard core Red shirt I would be very confused. It's all about Thaksin smutcakes. And you know that.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Nickymaster]

If somone is going to lenghts to record a conversation they surely could find a better on than this.

This will die a death anyway, as people don't want the judge issue brought into the public again for scrutiny;

You say that there are better conversations AND that people don't want to judge a conversation brought into the public again for scrutiny.

Huh???

[Pib]

Probably one of the greatest fears Thaksin has is the Thai population as a whole gets so tired with constantly hearing "Thaksin this, Thaksin that" is that they just begin to block him out of their minds--and not only the people who don't like him but also many of the people who do like him. Some may say that would be good for Thaksin as it may make it easier to get amnesty for him, but the opposition party will always put-up a fight against that and quickly bring it back to the forefront of peoples minds.

The longer he stays out of Thailand and the people finally figure out their lives are continuing on no worst, no better than if Thaksin was still in power they just may hope that Thaksin would just fade away. It's almost like a long running Soap show, but even those shows lose viewership after a while--whoops, I just made a good point against my augment since Thais so love their Soap shows.

[Nickymaster]

Probably one of the greatest fears Thaksin has is the Thai population as a whole gets so tired with constantly hearing "Thaksin this, Thaksin that" is that they just begin to block him out of their minds--and not only the people who don't like him but also many of the people who do like him. Some may say that would be good for Thaksin as it may make it easier to get amnesty for him, but the opposition party will always put-up a fight against that and quickly bring it back to the forefront of peoples minds.

The longer he stays out of Thailand and the people finally figure out their lives are continuing on no worst, no better than if Thaksin was still in power they just may hope that Thaksin would just fade away. It's almost like a long running Soap show, but even those shows lose viewership after a while--whoops, I just made a good point against my augment since Thais so love their Soap shows.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thaksin-backs-controversial-rice-scheme-30191053.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

These kind of statements is keeping Thaksin alive in Thailand. This criminal is using the money of hard working Thais for his own benefit. PT will keep spending until Thaksin is back or the country destroyed.

[Halion]

Is it wrong to wish that a sinkhole will take Thaksin while he's napping? Guy is nothing but trouble...

The whole family would be even better.

[smutcakes]

If somone is going to lenghts to record a conversation they surely could find a better on than this.

This will die a death anyway, as people don't want the judge issue brought into the public again for scrutiny;

I don't agree. This is one of the best conversations one could have wished for. This conversation has done a terrible amount of damage to Thaksin.

It is now clear that Thaksin is trying to make a deal with the military (yes, the evil trigger happy military that shot innocent Thaksin supporters according to Thaksin, the red shirt leaders and their fancy mouthpiece Robert Amsterdam).

Anybody surprised why they haven't invited the ICC to investigate what happened in Thailand in 2010?

If I would be a hard core Red shirt I would be very confused. It's all about Thaksin smutcakes. And you know that.

Its politics, everyone knows what happens behind closed doors, its nothing new- all political parties the world over courage favor, try to influence people etc

If it was such a big issue, why has it largely been forgotten about already, and dismissed by the army already?

I have no idea what you or how the ICC etc has any relevance to this topic

[A Member]

If somone is going to lenghts to record a conversation they surely could find a better on than this.

This will die a death anyway, as people don't want the judge issue brought into the public again for scrutiny;

If someone wants an incriminating conversation I think they would take any one they could get and if something is too perfect it becomes suspicious

[A Member]

If somone is going to lenghts to record a conversation they surely could find a better on than this.

This will die a death anyway, as people don't want the judge issue brought into the public again for scrutiny;

If someone wants an incriminating conversation I think they would take any one they could get and if something is too perfect it becomes suspicious unless it's been done by a government agency with all the right gear. It's unlikely anyone in government is spying on Taksin but maybe later when they all fall out.

[Nickymaster]

If somone is going to lenghts to record a conversation they surely could find a better on than this.

This will die a death anyway, as people don't want the judge issue brought into the public again for scrutiny;

I don't agree. This is one of the best conversations one could have wished for. This conversation has done a terrible amount of damage to Thaksin.

It is now clear that Thaksin is trying to make a deal with the military (yes, the evil trigger happy military that shot innocent Thaksin supporters according to Thaksin, the red shirt leaders and their fancy mouthpiece Robert Amsterdam).

Anybody surprised why they haven't invited the ICC to investigate what happened in Thailand in 2010?

If I would be a hard core Red shirt I would be very confused. It's all about Thaksin smutcakes. And you know that.

Its politics, everyone knows what happens behind closed doors, its nothing new- all political parties the world over courage favor, try to influence people etc

If it was such a big issue, why has it largely been forgotten about already, and dismissed by the army already?

I have no idea what you or how the ICC etc has any relevance to this topic

ICC is given as an example that Thaksin and his propaganda machine are telling the poor red-shirts that they are going after the army etc and in fact he is making a deal with them.

[hellodolly]

The glue that holds this balsa wood government is slowly comonig unstuck, this audio clip is sure to have done damage to Taksin's political party, he and they are rapidly losing credibility, and if Moody's does downgrade Thailand's credit rating that will be another nail in the coffin.

I think Moody's is well aware of Thaksins illigal ways and are already figuring hum into the equation on the negative side. If he comes back they will definatly strengthen their negativity towards him.

[hellodolly]

according to the article

"It might have been different if the contentious audio clip had highlighted Thaksin's opinion on how the amnesty would benefit others or bring about true reconciliation and political peace. If it's a doctored clip, the mastermind has succeeded in making him come across as selfish. If it's genuine, Thaksin and his dialogue partner only have themselves to blame"

The way I read it is if it is doctored the doctor did a perfect job.

Like tyhe article says either way it hurts his chances of a white wash job.

If it is the real McCoy Thaksin was just being honest.

It is all about him as far as he is concerned.

How ever I still think it was doctored as I am fairly sure (I could be wrong) that Thaksin is afraid to come back to Thailand. He feels that there is a bullet with his name on it here in Thailand. Any talk about returning is just to save face.

[rametindallas]

Who cares/!!......

Thailands' fobia with this person is insane....he's a convicted crook on the run so to speak.....a gutless coward who lacks credibility nowadays!

It is NOT insane to be phobic of Dr. Thaksin returning to power. He has already mounted an attempted soft coup involving thousands of paid Red Shirt protestors and resulting in 90 deaths. Every day there are stories of his behind-the-scenes maneuvers to control the current government. He will, if vigilance is not maintained, return to Thailand and become a 'democratic' dictator the same as his buddy Hun Sen.

If Dr. Thaksin were not consumed with wanting to be 'President', he would come back to face justice. The problem for him is that, as a convicted felon, he would not be eligible for political office. To attain his goal of 'democratic' dictator and President for Life, he needs amnesty (he already has the power, connections, and money). The Yingluck government has focused on only three things since coming to power: Populist policies to win votes and keep the power, corruption through those policies, and amnesty for her brother.

You can curse him all you want but he WILL rule Thailand if allowed amnesty. He will not be a benevolent dictator either.