As is stated above, the chemical signature should show the type and source of the gas used. If, as many reports have already ststed, it was Sarin, then it may be a highly concentrated (military grade) version, or it may be a bathtub version, as was used on the Tokyo Metro system. They would leave different chemical signatures, as the manufacturing process would show different products after the deterioration of the original gas. Sarin itself degrades quickly, as is necessary in a military weapon if the area is later to be occupied by one's own troops. But the far more stable products left after deterioration may last many years. In Iraq the gassing of Halabjah was confirmed many years later (1988-2006) by the chemical residues of deteriorated gas. It was mustard gas, Tabun and Sarin - supplied by Saddam's supporters (Us and UK mainly).

It will be fairly easy to establish the type of gas used, and it's purity, by the UN weapons inspectors. But will they be asked to publish such facts?

The US has released its intelligence dossier about the recent use of chemical weapons. Here is the Guardian's report of that release:-

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/30/syria-us-intelligence-dossier-prelude-strike

One major point of difference from previous accounts is the number of dead claimed.... 1429 as opposed to the British and MSF claims of 300-400.

The US has released its intelligence dossier about the recent use of chemical weapons. Here is the Guardian's report of that release:-

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/30/syria-us-intelligence-dossier-prelude-strike

From the link....

Unlike with the 2003 case against Iraq's Saddam Hussein, the existence of Assad's chemical stockpiles is not in doubt.

Eh? The US could be completely certain Saddam had chemical weapons because they (and others) sold them to him. They can only be less certain that Syria does, which makes the above quote a major error. The only real reason to be sure Syria even HAS chemical weapons is their actions or about turn when 'their' chemical signature was said to have been found. The only reason for their actions in this regard are because they thought the US had a sample to test it against. Did the US have a sample to test it against? I have no idea but let's say they didn't and just bluffed. So what? It doesn't matter one iota what can be found in the UN report since Syria has already admitted a chemical weapon has been used and that its chemical signature, if tested, would match that of its own stockpile. Is Syria could show, or even state, that some has gone missing then the situation would be quite different right now.

One major point of difference from previous accounts is the number of dead claimed.... 1429 as opposed to the British and MSF claims of 300-400.

When the news broke (via MSF) it was over a thousand dead but was then revised down to hundreds. Still, would be interesting to know how they came to such an exact figure.

The UK government was extremely stupid to follow W. Bush into Iraq.

They are also extremely wrong for not associating themselves with Obama on this Syria chemical weapons issue.

The special relationship is OVER.

The UK government was extremely stupid to follow W. Bush into Iraq.

They are also extremely wrong for not associating themselves with Obama on this Syria chemical weapons issue.

The special relationship is OVER.

It sounds as if Obama is not going to find too many people wanting to associate with him.... including most Americans I've heard express an opinion.

If the special relationship is supposed to mean Britain running like a lapdog when called, then it's a good thing it's over.

The UK government was extremely stupid to follow W. Bush into Iraq.

They are also extremely wrong for not associating themselves with Obama on this Syria chemical weapons issue.

The special relationship is OVER.

It sounds as if Obama is not going to find too many people wanting to associate with him.... including most Americans I've heard express an opinion.

If the special relationship is supposed to mean Britain running like a lapdog when called, then it's a good thing it's over.

The US has released its intelligence dossier about the recent use of chemical weapons. Here is the Guardian's report of that release:-

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/30/syria-us-intelligence-dossier-prelude-strike

From the link....

Unlike with the 2003 case against Iraq's Saddam Hussein, the existence of Assad's chemical stockpiles is not in doubt.

Eh? The US could be completely certain Saddam had chemical weapons because they (and others) sold them to him. They can only be less certain that Syria does, which makes the above quote a major error. The only real reason to be sure Syria even HAS chemical weapons is their actions or about turn when 'their' chemical signature was said to have been found. The only reason for their actions in this regard are because they thought the US had a sample to test it against. Did the US have a sample to test it against? I have no idea but let's say they didn't and just bluffed. So what? It doesn't matter one iota what can be found in the UN report since Syria has already admitted a chemical weapon has been used and that its chemical signature, if tested, would match that of its own stockpile. Is Syria could show, or even state, that some has gone missing then the situation would be quite different right now.

One major point of difference from previous accounts is the number of dead claimed.... 1429 as opposed to the British and MSF claims of 300-400.

When the news broke (via MSF) it was over a thousand dead but was then revised down to hundreds. Still, would be interesting to know how they came to such an exact figure.

With regard to the first part of your post - you correctly state that the Western sponsors of Saddam Hussein, the US, UK and France, supplied him with the components to manufacture gases such as Sarin and Tabun - organo-phosphates and solvents from an organic (alcohol) based source. But prior to the Guif Wars could Saddam have passed these materials on to his fellow Baathist leader in Syria? Thus nothing found in Iraq.

With regard to the second part - Medecins sans Frontieres reported casualties in the thousand plus range, I'm not sure that they reported deaths in that range. But regardless, how many of these casualties/deaths have been rebel fighters, how many women and children, male non-combatants? I have seen no report of casualties among the rebel forces. This strikes me as being very strange. The government forces were massing to take this area under their control. Had the rebels fled already? I cannot understand the casualty figures. Once again MSF seem to be showing a strongly partial bias in their reporting, as they have done in the Gaza Strip.

The UK government was extremely stupid to follow W. Bush into Iraq.

They are also extremely wrong for not associating themselves with Obama on this Syria chemical weapons issue.

The special relationship is OVER.

It sounds as if Obama is not going to find too many people wanting to associate with him.... including most Americans I've heard express an opinion.

If the special relationship is supposed to mean Britain running like a lapdog when called, then it's a good thing it's over.

They picked the WRONG time to not be faithful the the special relationship. It's not logical. They go for it when it was obviously BS and now when there is a moral imperative to do something (and also send a message to Iran and Russia) they run away. I am boycotting fish and chips for the duration. When you Brits need something, please don't call ...

Baby George, please stay away ...

Perhaps it's time to help out Argentina on Las Malvinas ?

When you Brits need something, please don't call ...

Not too worry I do not think they have *your* number

When you Brits need something, please don't call ...

Not too worry I do not think they have *your* number

That's even better.

The UK government was extremely stupid to follow W. Bush into Iraq.

They are also extremely wrong for not associating themselves with Obama on this Syria chemical weapons issue.

The special relationship is OVER.

It sounds as if Obama is not going to find too many people wanting to associate with him.... including most Americans I've heard express an opinion.

If the special relationship is supposed to mean Britain running like a lapdog when called, then it's a good thing it's over.

They picked the WRONG time to not be faithful the the special relationship. It's not logical. They go for it when it was obviously BS and now when there is a moral imperative to do something (and also send a message to Iran and Russia) they run away. I am boycotting fish and chips for the duration. When you Brits need something, please don't call ...

Baby George, please stay away ...

Perhaps it's time to help out Argentina on Las Malvinas ?

Why do Iran and Russia need a message sent to them? That is, a message that is over and above the continuous messages we send to them through our words and actions?

The UK government was extremely stupid to follow W. Bush into Iraq.

They are also extremely wrong for not associating themselves with Obama on this Syria chemical weapons issue.

The special relationship is OVER.

It sounds as if Obama is not going to find too many people wanting to associate with him.... including most Americans I've heard express an opinion.

If the special relationship is supposed to mean Britain running like a lapdog when called, then it's a good thing it's over.

They picked the WRONG time to not be faithful the the special relationship. It's not logical. They go for it when it was obviously BS and now when there is a moral imperative to do something (and also send a message to Iran and Russia) they run away. I am boycotting fish and chips for the duration. When you Brits need something, please don't call ...

Baby George, please stay away ...

Perhaps it's time to help out Argentina on Las Malvinas ?

Why do Iran and Russia need a message sent to them? That is, a message that is over and above the continuous messages we send to them through our words and actions?

The message -- the American big stick can still be stuck when it is deserved.

It sounds as if Obama is not going to find too many people wanting to associate with him.... including most Americans I've heard express an opinion.

If the special relationship is supposed to mean Britain running like a lapdog when called, then it's a good thing it's over.

They picked the WRONG time to not be faithful the the special relationship. It's not logical. They go for it when it was obviously BS and now when there is a moral imperative to do something (and also send a message to Iran and Russia) they run away. I am boycotting fish and chips for the duration. When you Brits need something, please don't call ...

Baby George, please stay away ...

Perhaps it's time to help out Argentina on Las Malvinas ?

Why do Iran and Russia need a message sent to them? That is, a message that is over and above the continuous messages we send to them through our words and actions?

The message -- the American big stick can still be stuck when it is deserved.

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a country on Earth that doesn't already know that America can blow stuff up, just about anywhere, anytime it wants to. I think the new message that's developing is "you can't fool all of the people, all of the time."

I disagree. Russia and Iran think Obama is very weak and they've been taking advantage. Time to STOP that.

I disagree. Russia and Iran think Obama is very weak and they've been taking advantage. Time to STOP that.

Well, he IS very weak, but they well know that America is very strong. I can't imagine anything worse than a person of both weak intellect and weak moral fiber having a strong military at his disposal to try to show others how strong he is personally. That's madness!

Oh please. Obama is PRESIDENT. He represents America now, like it or not. Don't imagine I love everything he has done. I think his response about Syria has been pretty awful so far. I still think more will come later.

Oh please. Obama is PRESIDENT. He represents America now, like it or not. Don't imagine I love everything he has done. I think his response about Syria has been pretty awful so far. I still think more will come later.

Sometimes one needs to step back for an overview of what's really going on. That's hard to do when you're glued to the media that shifts with every news cycle.

If you take a step back you will see that more and more he DOES NOT represent America now, like it or not. The bile has been rising for a long time and to be fair it started before he came on the scene. The people were looking for an antidote to what they saw as global interventionism and despite his campaign rhetoric to the contrary, what they got was a global military interventionist² in this president. Too many went along with it out of partisan loyalty or idolatry or they were from the opposite party but warmongers as well, but the scales are falling from the people's eyes. They have lost Hope of seeing the Change that was promised. They were scammed and now their scorn is coming out.

And you know what? Maybe there WAS a time when we could have made some effective limited intervention in Syria, but that time has long past. The barbarians are at the gate and we cried wolf once too many times.

The UK government was extremely stupid to follow W. Bush into Iraq.

They are also extremely wrong for not associating themselves with Obama on this Syria chemical weapons issue.

The special relationship is OVER.

The UK government (and the UK people) aren't there as adjuncts to the Democratic party. The sooner the 'special relationship' is consigned to the dustbin of history the better.

When you Brits need something, please don't call ...

Not too worry I do not think they have *your* number

That's even better.

Given that the NSA cannot snoop on US citizens it is quite likely that they have outsourced JT's number and the rest of his details to the cousins in Cheltenham.

Similarly whether or not a few fig leaf missiles or sorties are carried out by UK forces, the main input will remain the same, chiefly the world's largest "aircraft carrier" conveniently located 100 miles off Syria, HMS Akrotiri, plus all the associated elint and sigint assets elsewhere on that "carrier".. That's what the relationship is all about in this case. Similar to the US assistance in the retaking of the Falklands. Nothing too overt, but jolly handy all the same.

Day or two old but still historically accurate.

This punishment that Obama has been promising Assad (without having the proof that he was the culprit) is deferred yet again.

Could be before the weekend (it's now the weekend)....

Maybe by next Wednesday.....

Congress returns on the 9th....

The course of the civil war in Syria may well have altered before the US actually gets round to doing anything. Better late than never, perhaps, but better not at all.

Oh please. Obama is PRESIDENT. He represents America now, like it or not. Don't imagine I love everything he has done. I think his response about Syria has been pretty awful so far. I still think more will come later.

not to forget that O'Bama is the "Leader of the Free World" (© FAUX News)!

duplicate post

Day or two old but still historically accurate.

Sorry.

Hmmm... Bathtub chemistry?

http://youtu.be/lay6VoWBQek?t=9m3s

Hmmm... Bathtub chemistry?

http://youtu.be/lay6VoWBQek?t=9m3s

It worked on the Tokyo Metro, didn't it?

You only need organo-phosphates (fertilizers) and alcohol solutes (the correct ones, of course), mixed in the right proportions.

When I was acting as quarry master in Libya, while the correct guy was on vacation, we ran short on explosives and one of my blasters showed me how to make ANFO (ammonium nitrate and fuel oil [diesel]). but I went the correct route and had it bought in Tripoli and transported under army escort to Benghazi, then up to the quarry. Cost good money, but established links with the Libyan army, who gave me several contracts during the following years.

These things are not difficult to manufacture - all the lies being put out by politicians about Sarin or it's fellow nerve gases being a highly technical process are rubbish. But to produce military grade nerve gas does require purified components and careful manufacture. The basic gas can be manufactured in your bathroom, although control may be far less certain.

What can be determined later is the actual chemical composition - the products left after the gas has dissipated and deteriorated can show the purity of the actual nerve gas. It's 'signature'.

The population of Syria in 2011 was 20.82 million.

Two million refugees have left the country.

Five million people are displaced inside the country.

Any military action by the US can only make things worse. (Or maybe things are so bad that nothing could make them worse.)

Hmmm... Bathtub chemistry?

http://youtu.be/lay6VoWBQek?t=9m3s

It worked on the Tokyo Metro, didn't it?

You only need organo-phosphates (fertilizers) and alcohol solutes (the correct ones, of course), mixed in the right proportions.I

I used to work for a haulage company who used to ship high concentrate Malathion and Parathion powder from the distributors in Southampton to the rest of the UK. We had space suits and 10 foot brooms in case of any spillages. Scary stuff.

I used to work for a haulage company who used to ship high concentrate Malathion and Parathion powder from the distributors in Southampton to the rest of the UK. We had space suits and 10 foot brooms in case of any spillages. Scary stuff.

If you were a Jihadist or member of Aum Shinrikyo doomsday cult you would not be concerned with health and safety. If you own a haulage firm you do worry about H&S 'cos your employees surviving relatives can sue your arse off. There are hundreds of toxic substances around, from tobacco (in relatively low doses) through all the chemical nasties to nuclear isotopes. I don't know how many products I have handled with their hazard cards in front of me, but it's got to be in the hundreds.

One should never get careless or ignore the handling instructions, but all these products can be handled in relative safety if the proper precautions are taken.

Remember that in the Tokyo Metro the Sarin was ready-prepared and the attackers just poured it out on the floor of the Metro carriages. They died along with their victims. The same could happen with Jihadists.

I used to work for a haulage company who used to ship high concentrate Malathion and Parathion powder from the distributors in Southampton to the rest of the UK. We had space suits and 10 foot brooms in case of any spillages. Scary stuff.

If you were a Jihadist or member of Aum Shinrikyo doomsday cult you would not be concerned with health and safety. If you own a haulage firm you do worry about H&S 'cos your employees surviving relatives can sue your arse off.

This was in 1968. 'Suing your arse off' wasn't a particularly well known tactic then...