Gut bacteria changes linked to weight gain after quitting smoking

[tropo]

I've just come back from four days in Bangkok, my first real visit there for a few years and I was shocked at how hard it was to find basic healthy food to eat, everything in the restaurants was basic food made fancy. Granted I stayed in Siam Square and my choice of good quality restaurant was almost unlimted and many of the dishes on offer were hugely appealing. But when you're disciplined to eat low carb and to eat only protein and healthy vegetables it means doing things slightly differently,

in my case it meant ordering the buffet at the hotel for THB 900 pp and cherry picking the right foods which comprised about one twentieth of what was on offer. Not only does it get expensive but it gets to be hard work so I'm pleased to be home, the alternative would have been to gorge on what was offered and to suffer the consequences. I'm not trying to trumpet my achievments here but I am trying to make the point that if you want or need something badly enough, you'll work at it, regardless of the temptations put in your way.

May I suggest the Hachiban Ramen restaurants. You'll recognize them by the big red "8" on their window. They're all over Bangkok. You can have a tasty high protein/low carb meal there for under 200 baht.

You may indeed and many thanks for it, I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm there.

They're all over Thailand. We have 3 in Pattaya and I'm sure they'll have many in Chiang Mai too. It has been my go-to restaurant for clean high protein meals for about 6 years. I'll usually get the teriyaki chicken or duck dish with a vegetable dish. They also have boiled eggs as a side order, so I'll get 2 or 3 of those if I want to increase the protein content of my meal.

[tropo]

After being a smoker for 35 years, I decided to quit just over a month ago 31/7/13. Total cold turkey, haven't touch one since.

I had already made my mind up that I wasn't going to substitute the little white stick with something else. so my diet has remained exactly the same, as has my weight.

A friend of mine tried that a few months ago - stopping cold turkey from about 60 a day. He got very sick and his doctor told him to start smoking again (5 a day) and then reduce the number gradually.

[tropo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5455188/Probiotic-supplements-have-no-proven-benefit-for-healthy-people.html

I don't find this article very enlightening. For starters, what is a "healthy person" according to their guidelines?

It is quite likely that this hypothetical "healthy person" is healthy because he has a diet rich in fermented foods and probiotics.

After drinking kefir everyday for over 2 years, my digestive system has never worked better in my life. Maybe it's no coincidence that my blood sugar control is also much better now.

If you want to wait for the medical community to fully understand the benefits of healthy intestinal flora, you'll be waiting a long time. There's more bacteria in the digestive tract than there are cells in the entire body. We'll be dead and buried before they even start to comprehend the workings thereof.

I'll go for good anecdotal evidence over the suggestions from licensed doctors any day.

[chiang mai]

We can agree to disagree on this point, no problem, whatever works for the individual is most important.

[Jingthing]

After being a smoker for 35 years, I decided to quit just over a month ago 31/7/13. Total cold turkey, haven't touch one since.

I had already made my mind up that I wasn't going to substitute the little white stick with something else. so my diet has remained exactly the same, as has my weight.

I think the researchers in that study would be curious to have a look at your gut bacteria now.

[Thaddeus]

After being a smoker for 35 years, I decided to quit just over a month ago 31/7/13. Total cold turkey, haven't touch one since.

I had already made my mind up that I wasn't going to substitute the little white stick with something else. so my diet has remained exactly the same, as has my weight.

A friend of mine tried that a few months ago - stopping cold turkey from about 60 a day. He got very sick and his doctor told him to start smoking again (5 a day) and then reduce the number gradually.

Fascinating, just out of curiosity, in what way was he sick (symptoms) did he change something else at the same time (diet etc)

[Naam]

Dnp is very dangerous, yes? Is it really linked to bacteria?

What to do? Start making kefir and drink it everyday - problem solved - healthy intestinal flora balance restored.... and they can go back to counting calories to lose the excess fat.

not to forget a cocktail with the main ingredient being flaxseed oil

[tropo]

Dnp is very dangerous, yes? Is it really linked to bacteria?

What to do? Start making kefir and drink it everyday - problem solved - healthy intestinal flora balance restored.... and they can go back to counting calories to lose the excess fat.

not to forget a cocktail with the main ingredient being flaxseed oil

It's now coconut oil, Udo's oil AND flaxseed oil.

[tropo]

After being a smoker for 35 years, I decided to quit just over a month ago 31/7/13. Total cold turkey, haven't touch one since.

I had already made my mind up that I wasn't going to substitute the little white stick with something else. so my diet has remained exactly the same, as has my weight.

A friend of mine tried that a few months ago - stopping cold turkey from about 60 a day. He got very sick and his doctor told him to start smoking again (5 a day) and then reduce the number gradually.

Fascinating, just out of curiosity, in what way was he sick (symptoms) did he change something else at the same time (diet etc)

I'm not sure about the symptoms of his sickness. I shall have to contact him for more details. He didn't change anything else.

Edited September 4, 2013 by tropo

[Tolley]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5455188/Probiotic-supplements-have-no-proven-benefit-for-healthy-people.html

I don't find this article very enlightening. For starters, what is a "healthy person" according to their guidelines?

It is quite likely that this hypothetical "healthy person" is healthy because he has a diet rich in fermented foods and probiotics.

After drinking kefir everyday for over 2 years, my digestive system has never worked better in my life. Maybe it's no coincidence that my blood sugar control is also much better now.

If you want to wait for the medical community to fully understand the benefits of healthy intestinal flora, you'll be waiting a long time. There's more bacteria in the digestive tract than there are cells in the entire body. We'll be dead and buried before they even start to comprehend the workings thereof.

I'll go for good anecdotal evidence over the suggestions from licensed doctors any day.

I have ignored doctors and their advice for thirty years and have remained very healthy as a result of it.

Everything they dont know or understand they put down to a placebo effect.

I dont really blame mainstream doctors as they are not really trained in these areas at all.

By and large they look at conditions do blood tests and prescribe medications.

They are not trained in wholistic methods, naturopathy, nutrition, vitamin therapy etc

Of course they dont recognise these methods because most doctors dont really know much about them as it is not in their realm of experience.

Many of course dismiss outright these practioners yet people are not stupid. Many people have gotten great results from so called alternatvie practioners and results are what count and people dont care if there are no studies or whatever as long as they get results.

Anyway good digestive system is key to good health and is it linked to your immune system.

The majority of so called healthy people probably have very poor digestive function if the general populaton is any guideline.

You cant go wrong with a good probiotic whether it is kefir or any other fermented product.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Tolley

[canman]

There seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence for the benefits of pro biotics. As I understand it probiotics are good bacteria which need to live in your intestine to promote good digestion, what I don't understand is how these live bacteria get through the stomach without being distroyed by the stomach acids. I am aware that there are specialised bacteria living in the stomach but the bacteria in pro biotics live in the intestine and are not designed to live in a hydrochloric acid bath. Can anyone explain how these good bacteria can survive passing through the stomach?

Edited September 5, 2013 by canman

[poanoi]

Guess same reason as i survived gonorrhea, i wasnt given a choice

[robblok]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5455188/Probiotic-supplements-have-no-proven-benefit-for-healthy-people.html

I don't find this article very enlightening. For starters, what is a "healthy person" according to their guidelines?

It is quite likely that this hypothetical "healthy person" is healthy because he has a diet rich in fermented foods and probiotics.

After drinking kefir everyday for over 2 years, my digestive system has never worked better in my life. Maybe it's no coincidence that my blood sugar control is also much better now.

If you want to wait for the medical community to fully understand the benefits of healthy intestinal flora, you'll be waiting a long time. There's more bacteria in the digestive tract than there are cells in the entire body. We'll be dead and buried before they even start to comprehend the workings thereof.

I'll go for good anecdotal evidence over the suggestions from licensed doctors any day.

I have ignored doctors and their advice for thirty years and have remained very healthy as a result of it.

Everything they dont know or understand they put down to a placebo effect.

I dont really blame mainstream doctors as they are not really trained in these areas at all.

By and large they look at conditions do blood tests and prescribe medications.

They are not trained in wholistic methods, naturopathy, nutrition, vitamin therapy etc

Of course they dont recognise these methods because most doctors dont really know much about them as it is not in their realm of experience.

Many of course dismiss outright these practioners yet people are not stupid. Many people have gotten great results from so called alternatvie practioners and results are what count and people dont care if there are no studies or whatever as long as they get results.

Anyway good digestive system is key to good health and is it linked to your immune system.

The majority of so called healthy people probably have very poor digestive function if the general populaton is any guideline.

You cant go wrong with a good probiotic whether it is kefir or any other fermented product.

I don't think kefir would harm me so I take it and hope it benefits me. I like to take care of myself I do unhealthy things too. I do believe in home made probiotics more then the commercially made ones.

[Jingthing]

...

From what i have read of JT he is constantly looking for reasons why he could not loose it instead of finding ways to loose it or to put more effort in it. I believe there are small things that help a bit, but in the end the biggest part is eating less and doing some sports. Most studies showed people doing sports preferably weightlifting and a form of cardio plus a healthy diet would be off best.

...

This characterization of my POV is 100 percent false.

I accept that you possess this negative view of my attitude about health and weight, but again, IT IS FALSE.

I STRONGLY suggest in future that you (and others) focus on the CONTENT of the topics, and not on your subjective perception of the PEOPLE behind the posts.

If you disagree with a point made, attack the point, not the person.

Cheers.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

Sir, sir, JT's shouting sir!

[Jingthing]

Sir, sir, JT's shouting sir!

I'd like to see this forum be a friendly and welcoming place for people with a DIVERSITY of opinions on the important health concerns of overweight and obesity. I don't think this is the place for enforcing rigid dogma "party line" as if that is the absolute truth, or to personally insult people who are struggling with weight issues. People with weight issues get insulted ENOUGH in the so called real world.

No, I am NOT talking about a Fat Is Beautiful type political support group. I'm OK with people doing that, but that's not where I'm at personally and I'm not suggesting the focus of a forum like this should be to encourage people to not address their health issues related to body size. How exactly to address these issues is a fluid area of controversy, there are no absolute answers.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

Sir, sir, JT's shouting sir!

I'd like to see this forum be a friendly and welcoming place for people with a DIVERSITY of opinions on the important health concerns of overweight and obesity. I don't think this is the place for enforcing rigid dogma "party line" as if that is the absolute truth, or to personally insult people who are struggling with weight issues. People with weight issues get insulted ENOUGH in the so called real world.

Chill JT and stop taking it all so seriously, underneath all of this is a steady stream of very sound dietary advice that works for many and could no doubt work for you, I think everyone here would be very pleased if that were the case. But if I might be so bold as to suggest, at the risk of offending which I hope not to do, don't be so sensitve, ignore the rehtoric and concentrate on the detail.

[Jingthing]

Sir, sir, JT's shouting sir!

I'd like to see this forum be a friendly and welcoming place for people with a DIVERSITY of opinions on the important health concerns of overweight and obesity. I don't think this is the place for enforcing rigid dogma "party line" as if that is the absolute truth, or to personally insult people who are struggling with weight issues. People with weight issues get insulted ENOUGH in the so called real world.

Chill JT and stop taking it all so seriously, underneath all of this is a steady stream of very sound dietary advice that works for many and could no doubt work for you, I think everyone here would be very pleased if that were the case. But if I might be so bold as to suggest, at the risk of offending which I hope not to do, don't be so sensitve, ignore the rehtoric and concentrate on the detail.

I already got something very meaningful from this forum -- a mention of garcinia cambogia inspired me to try it ... and I am a very grateful about that.

No, I realize this won't work for everyone or even most people, and like anything it doesn't work unless you also eat in a more healthy way and also hopefully get some exercise.

I pretty much already knew plenty about healthier foods to eat and the benefits of exercise.

I have been able to reduce my PORTION size considerably without any deprivation feelings (it seems I had been in denial about that issue) and also almost magically any cravings for "bad foods" have been erased.

Whether this works for me in the long term, like five years, I can't know as I am not psychic.

No it's still not easy. As I am taking the SLOW road, about a kilo a month or at most two rate of loss, there is the issue of impatience to arrive at a place where I can be happier about my body size. I think most of us are conditioned to look for quick fixes. Me too. But what I am doing is really slow. I think it's healthier that way but I still would like to fit into my smaller pants sooner!

Edited September 5, 2013 by Jingthing

[tropo]

No, I am NOT talking about a Fat Is Beautiful type political support group. I'm OK with people doing that,

On a more lighthearted note... fat can indeed be beautiful as beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

The world's strongest man, Benedikt Magnusson marries Gemma Taylor, Britain's strongest woman:

She has a lot of muscle under that fat though. This story was rather touching, because it was love at first sight the moment Benedikt laid eyes on her. As a world famous strongman competitor he wouldn't have been short of "fans" either.

They now have a baby boy, who was wearing 6 month baby clothes at 6 weeks. It will be interesting to see if their boy turns out to be a genetic strength "freak".

Another example... my mother in law is proud to show her paunch and often wears skimpy clothes to display it. In the Philippines they just don't like skinny.

Edited September 5, 2013 by tropo

[chiang mai]

JT: if it helps you any, I monitor my weight closely, a two kilo swing over seven days makes me tweak my diet, a one/two kilo change over a month is normal metabolism and cannot be regarded as weight loss.

[robblok]

JT: if it helps you any, I monitor my weight closely, a two kilo swing over seven days makes me tweak my diet, a one/two kilo change over a month is normal metabolism and cannot be regarded as weight loss.

I don't get that one.. why cant a 1 to 2 kilo loss over a month be regarded as a weight loss. Please explain as i really don't understand.

[chiang mai]

JT: if it helps you any, I monitor my weight closely, a two kilo swing over seven days makes me tweak my diet, a one/two kilo change over a month is normal metabolism and cannot be regarded as weight loss.

I don't get that one.. why cant a 1 to 2 kilo loss over a month be regarded as a weight loss. Please explain as i really don't understand.

If the 2kg loss per month is consistent, month on month, then that can indeed be regarded as weight loss, as long as it is sustained over time. My point was that it's normal for a persons body weight to vary by 1/2/3 kgs per month.

[tropo]

JT: if it helps you any, I monitor my weight closely, a two kilo swing over seven days makes me tweak my diet, a one/two kilo change over a month is normal metabolism and cannot be regarded as weight loss.

My weight always varies at least 2 kg within a day - from morning to night. Fluid intake, bowel evacuation - factors which make a huge different to weight on the scale.

I think it's a good idea to take the average of the last 7 days as your weight for evaluation purposes.

[tropo]

JT: if it helps you any, I monitor my weight closely, a two kilo swing over seven days makes me tweak my diet, a one/two kilo change over a month is normal metabolism and cannot be regarded as weight loss.

I don't get that one.. why cant a 1 to 2 kilo loss over a month be regarded as a weight loss. Please explain as i really don't understand.

It's too small a percentage of total body weight to be significant. It's more than typical daily fluctuations in most people - representing only about 1 - 2 % of total body weight. You'd need more than a month to evaluate the results if the weight difference is this small.

[Jingthing]

It goes without saying that there are daily fluctuations. I have lost about 12 kg. since starting the garcinia and some loss each month.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[robblok]

JT: if it helps you any, I monitor my weight closely, a two kilo swing over seven days makes me tweak my diet, a one/two kilo change over a month is normal metabolism and cannot be regarded as weight loss.

I don't get that one.. why cant a 1 to 2 kilo loss over a month be regarded as a weight loss. Please explain as i really don't understand.

It's too small a percentage of total body weight to be significant. It's more than typical daily fluctuations in most people - representing only about 1 - 2 % of total body weight. You'd need more than a month to evaluate the results if the weight difference is this small.

sure but I was thinking month on month not fluctuations. I just misunderstood.

[tropo]

It goes without saying that there are daily fluctuations. I have lost about 12 kg. since starting the garcinia and some loss each month.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Nothing goes without saying on this topic. BTW, I was referring to intra day fluctuations, not daily fluctuations. The way people are talking about 1 or 2kg weight losses, it definitely needs to be said.

... and it would be great if people would stop talking about weight loss and focus on fat loss. You can lose a lot of water, bowel contents and carbs (energy) loaded in the muscles without losing any fat... which can add up to quite a few kilograms.

Edited September 5, 2013 by tropo

[Jingthing]

It goes without saying that there are daily fluctuations. I have lost about 12 kg. since starting the garcinia and some loss each month.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Nothing goes without saying on this topic. BTW, I was referring to intra day fluctuations, not daily fluctuations. The way people are talking about 1 or 2kg weight losses, it definitely needs to be said.

... and it would be great if people would stop talking about weight loss and focus on fat loss. You can lose a lot of water, bowel contents and carbs (energy) loaded in the muscles without losing any fat... which can add up to quite a few kilograms.

I've lost about 12 kgs. over a number of months.

I couldn't tell you how much was fat.

I have also lost about 4 inches on my waist.

It is really pleasing to start to fit into smaller clothes.

But I'm looking at a long road and trying to focus on changing my LIFE around food and healthy living rather than a "diet" mentality.

I know too well about the YOYO. There are so many traps.

I do look at BMI, sorry, I find it a useful guideline.

I am looking forward to moving from obesity to overweight early next year based on BMI.

If I make that initial goal, that will be a huge deal for me.

I know it sounds funny to say you are hoping to be just overweight, but for the obese, that's a good start!

You can have your wishes about how people are supposed to talk but in the real world most people talk about weight, clothes sizes, and BMI.

A comment about waist sizes.

I had thought losing 12 kg. would mean more inches off the waist than 4 inches.

HOWEVER, interestingly, I recently read that for people who are quite fat (that would be me I guess when I started this) the EARLIER inches take MORE WEIGHT to lose per pound than later inches. I forget the logic about this, there was a technical reason about it related to clothing, don't know if it is really true, but it's sure interesting. Sorry can't find the link now.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Jingthing

[tropo]

It goes without saying that there are daily fluctuations. I have lost about 12 kg. since starting the garcinia and some loss each month.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Nothing goes without saying on this topic. BTW, I was referring to intra day fluctuations, not daily fluctuations. The way people are talking about 1 or 2kg weight losses, it definitely needs to be said.

... and it would be great if people would stop talking about weight loss and focus on fat loss. You can lose a lot of water, bowel contents and carbs (energy) loaded in the muscles without losing any fat... which can add up to quite a few kilograms.

I've lost about 12 kgs. over a number of months.

I couldn't tell you how much was fat.

I have also lost about 4 inches on my waist.

It is really pleasing to start to fit into smaller clothes.

But I'm looking at a long road and trying to focus on changing my LIFE around food and healthy living rather than a "diet" mentality.

I know too well about the YOYO. There are so many traps.

I do look at BMI, sorry, I find it a useful guideline.

I am looking forward to moving from obesity to overweight early next year based on BMI.

If I make that initial goal, that will be a huge deal for me.

I know it sounds funny to say you are hoping to be just overweight, but for the obese, that's a good start!

You can have your wishes about how people are supposed to talk but in the real world most people talk about weight, clothes sizes, and BMI.

A comment about waist sizes.

I had thought losing 12 kg. would mean more inches off the waist than 4 inches.

HOWEVER, interestingly, I recently read that for people who are quite fat (that would be me I guess when I started this) the EARLIER inches take MORE WEIGHT to lose per pound than later inches. I forget the logic about this, there was a technical reason about it related to clothing, don't know if it is really true, but it's sure interesting. Sorry can't find the link now.

How many inches you lose off your waist will depend on where you deposit your fat, which varies a lot from person to person. Also, people usually wear pants on their hips, not on their waist, so pants size doesn't count for much in terms of belly fat.

This is another reason why it's important to measure sub-cutaneous fat and not become too obsessed with waist measurements. For example, at 9% bodyfat and very little fat in the mid-section (according to a DEXA scan) I'm still around 36" - 37" in the waist BEFORE I've eaten. That's about as small as I can get it. You could be a person with a wide waist.

[robblok]

It goes without saying that there are daily fluctuations. I have lost about 12 kg. since starting the garcinia and some loss each month.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Nothing goes without saying on this topic. BTW, I was referring to intra day fluctuations, not daily fluctuations. The way people are talking about 1 or 2kg weight losses, it definitely needs to be said.

... and it would be great if people would stop talking about weight loss and focus on fat loss. You can lose a lot of water, bowel contents and carbs (energy) loaded in the muscles without losing any fat... which can add up to quite a few kilograms.

I've lost about 12 kgs. over a number of months.

I couldn't tell you how much was fat.

I have also lost about 4 inches on my waist.

It is really pleasing to start to fit into smaller clothes.

But I'm looking at a long road and trying to focus on changing my LIFE around food and healthy living rather than a "diet" mentality.

I know too well about the YOYO. There are so many traps.

I do look at BMI, sorry, I find it a useful guideline.

I am looking forward to moving from obesity to overweight early next year based on BMI.

If I make that initial goal, that will be a huge deal for me.

I know it sounds funny to say you are hoping to be just overweight, but for the obese, that's a good start!

You can have your wishes about how people are supposed to talk but in the real world most people talk about weight, clothes sizes, and BMI.

A comment about waist sizes.

I had thought losing 12 kg. would mean more inches off the waist than 4 inches.

HOWEVER, interestingly, I recently read that for people who are quite fat (that would be me I guess when I started this) the EARLIER inches take MORE WEIGHT to lose per pound than later inches. I forget the logic about this, there was a technical reason about it related to clothing, don't know if it is really true, but it's sure interesting. Sorry can't find the link now.

The fact that you lost 12 suggest to me that at least a big portion of it has to be fat, you are not starving yourself. You have repeatedly said you do exercise though I have no idea how vigorously so muscle mass might have been spared. You probably lost a bit of weight from the smaller portion meaning water weight.

The fact that you are fitting into smaller clothes is great and real rewarding, how long it took you is irrelevant its working for you. What I don't get is then how you are always going on about why it is impossible when you yourself are getting good results.

It is much better to write down reasons for failure and solutions to counter them. Just failure alone makes people think you are setting yourself up for loosing. Just like talking about loosing weight without giving more information is like bragging.

I have learned many things here and I am happy that I read so much even happy about our "fights" as they made me look deeper into research articles to counter stuff. You might call me a Calvinist because of my views on suffering and everything comes at a price. I still believe that within limits what you put in there determines the results. But I also realize some things you can't do forever. When I wanted to loose my weight i rowed a lot more and longer then now. Now I am more focused on weight lifting because i like that more. In the end what you want to pay determines the results. I know I might even go lower if i double the effort, but at the same time I know its not worth it for me now. That does not mean I cannot do it or its out of reach, it just means I value other things more at this point.

I wish there were more scientific programs like the one you posted and the BBC ones i have posted but then not only identifying the problem but giving useful information. Instead of acting like things are impossible or a given. There is so much research out there and most points to exercise (cardio and weightlifting) plus diet to loose weight or keep it off. But id like to know more and its real hard to keep up with it all. Governments should encourage studies and fund them and then spread the information to the public obesity is a problem, by researching it more and handing out more information they could save money in healthcare and at the same time make for a smarter public.