The end of student visas in Phuket

[Phronesis]

sure sure, i heard this a year ago to nothing really changed because they all pay tea-money and i guess its going up...

i admit, if people cant do 4 hours a week of classes <deleted> they deserve no visa!

So, tea money goes up, which is passed onto the student, so the cost of the course goes up, and you still have to do your 4 hours a week.

Cheaper, easier, and less time consuming to do visa runs.

Let also not forget the potential for a huge cost blowout in the event of a road accident commuting to school. I go to school in Patong (because I liked the quality of the teachers at my school) however their is a tangible risk of being severely injured everytime one drives to Patong.

The four visa runs a year is certainly a defensible option. And, as NKM has pointed out, if one hand picks his flights can be managed for less than 30K THB all up for the year.

[Maestro]

Have you been along to immigration and asked for a retirement extension?

Age 50 is just a guideline, up to immigration if they give you one earlier.

Minimum age 50 for the retirement extension is more than a guideline; it is written into Royal Thai Police Order No. 777/2551, which was issued under the authority of Section 35(3) of the Immigration Act. It is true, however, that paragraph 5 of the aforementioned Police Order allows immigration to make exceptions, with a decision not made by an individual immigration office but at a higher level:

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police Bureau or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien’s application.

[Tywais]

Retirement visa, and then annual extensions are only available if 50 years old and over, plus meet the financial criteria. Not possible to 'arrange' if under 50.

You are wrong.

FiftyTwo I think you may be the one who is in fact wrong.

He (FiftyTwo) is wrong and it is written into law that you have to be 50 for retirement extension. Anything else to circumvent this is illegal.

[MaiThaiMaiWai]

sure sure, i heard this a year ago to nothing really changed because they all pay tea-money and i guess its going up...

i admit, if people cant do 4 hours a week of classes <deleted> they deserve no visa!

So, tea money goes up, which is passed onto the student, so the cost of the course goes up, and you still have to do your 4 hours a week.

Cheaper, easier, and less time consuming to do visa runs.

Surely a visa run with flights,accomodation,visa fees,buses,tuk tuks,beers and food costs at least USD $3-400 everytime even just for a couple of days?It does for me or even towards $500!

An ED visa for 1 year is about USD $500 and you stay for one year without leaving,just report every 3 months for an extension.You're kidding yourself if you think 60-day tourist visas work out cheaper,plus I heard that 4 back-to-back 60-day double entries is the maximum,then you MUST leave for 3 months to start again.

[Maestro]

I do not know of one single person that is under 50 years old and has been given a retirement visa or extension.

I will hand this possibility over to other TV members for debunking or confirmation...

Does anyone know someone who has received a retirement visa who is not yet 50 years old?

Let me rephrase your question: Does anyone know someone below the age of 50 years who applied for a retirement extension under paragraph 5 of Police Order 777/2551 and was denied the extension?

It is difficult to predict whether you would be successful with an application under paragraph 5, as immigration might consider it not unreasonable to expect that you invest 10 million Baht in Thailand for an extension under paragraph 2.5(, which amount would represent approximately 3.2% of your assets of 1 million US dollars at the current exchange rate. I suspect that for the majority of foreigners on a retirement extension under paragraph 2.22(5) with a bank deposit of 800k Baht, this deposit amounts to considerably more than 3.2% of their total assets.

[drnkurmlkshk]

You can live out here on tourist visas indefinitely anyway. Closing this "loop hole" just wastes everyone a lot of time - if they don't like traveling that is.

I am a bit shocked that anyone in this thread actually sees something wrong with younger guys living out here indefinitely. Do you really think most of them are a "drain" on Thailand? Almost all white folks I know living out here indeed are just moneyed up in some way, at least compared to Thai people. The super broke ones are always living here illegally anyway...

Edited October 9, 2013 by drnkurmlkshk

[IrishIvan]

The idea behind a tourist visa is so the children of expats can attend international schools in Thailand. The fact of the matter is that these fly by night money making scam language schools are just asking for the minimum attendance for their students and then the punter pays and its all easy for their visa. Its no coincidence that these so called schools spring up in the sex tourist towns.

The immigration authorities are right by clamping down. They dont issue ED visas for yachties and sex tourists to go drinking in Chalong happy hour happy time bars and then attend school for a few hours a week.

I agree with the Thai immigration on this. can you imagine the outcry in your home country if tourists were doing the same? Hanging around brothels and rorting the system.Boot them out i say and close down these sham schools.

Its offensive

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[iancnx]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

Its the "cheapest option", its not the "only" option for millionaires like you

I have heard that too. I am no expert but have come across individuals on a type of multi entry business visa issued for the purpose of exploring business opportunities in Thailand. Not sure if that could be renewed after year one of no investment so to speak. If you are a millionaire I suspect they will fall over themselves to issue it and become your personal advisor.

[stevenl]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

 

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

 

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

 

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

 

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

 

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

It may be a loophole for you, but you're abusing the system. Excellent they're ending this, because many are abusing it, and yes, working illegally with an ed visa.

[stevenl]

You can live out here on tourist visas indefinitely anyway.  Closing this "loop hole" just wastes everyone a lot of time - if they don't like traveling that is.

 

I am a bit shocked that anyone in this thread actually sees something wrong with younger guys living out here indefinitely.  Do you really think most of them are a "drain" on Thailand?  Almost all white folks I know living out here indeed are just moneyed up in some way, at least compared to Thai people.  The super broke ones are always living here illegally anyway...

Sure younger guys can live here, but not legally according to the law. So they are abusing the system, so measures are to be expected.

But let's be honest, this has nothing to do with the 'rich' under 50"s living here, but with the many people abusing the system and working illegally this way.

[IrishIvan]

I never have a problem with my visas and I am under 50. It just comes down to how motivated people are to do the right thing.

[GiantFan]

If you are from an APEC country, you can apply for an APEC Business Traveler Card. A Kiwi and a HK friend of mine have them. They get 3 months on arrival.

[hansgruber]

I never have a problem with my visas and I am under 50. It just comes down to how motivated people are to do the right thing.

I don't think its determined by motivation. Its obviously financial reasons.

Why bother doing visa runs and paying for yearly visa fees when you can just lob up to the border with 20k every few years?

One thing is for sure by reading the OP's thread history, The OP is the Saul Goodman of Phuket.

[simon43]

Immigration want to do away with the student visa

Well good luck with that! I don't think immigration can actually 'do away' with a legal visa type. But of course they can try to minimise any abuse of the system by those who pay 'not to attend' school. Perhaps more Thai language testing when the applicant makes their visa extension at the immigration office.

Simon

[Rorri]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

If you are a "millionaire" in the US then why are you here on a ED visa...spent a few of your "millions" and get a multiple entry Non immigrant B visa. Good for 12 months, visa run every 90days, if you do a visa run on the day of your visa expiry date you get another 90 days, in total approx. 15 months.

[Rorri]

OK...can any of you explain why so many people, of here, are against this ED visa "loophole" does it hurt you, does it hurt Thailand, does it hurt anyone...just what is the problem with you people.

[NamKangMan]

sure sure, i heard this a year ago to nothing really changed because they all pay tea-money and i guess its going up...

i admit, if people cant do 4 hours a week of classes <deleted> they deserve no visa!

So, tea money goes up, which is passed onto the student, so the cost of the course goes up, and you still have to do your 4 hours a week.

Cheaper, easier, and less time consuming to do visa runs.

Surely a visa run with flights,accomodation,visa fees,buses,tuk tuks,beers and food costs at least USD $3-400 everytime even just for a couple of days?It does for me or even towards $500!

An ED visa for 1 year is about USD $500 and you stay for one year without leaving,just report every 3 months for an extension.You're kidding yourself if you think 60-day tourist visas work out cheaper,plus I heard that 4 back-to-back 60-day double entries is the maximum,then you MUST leave for 3 months to start again.

As I said, I don't do the back to back double entry visas, for the reason you mention.

It has never cost me around $500US for a visa run. I buy the flights far into the future, when "on special" and pay next to nothing for them. Never any check-in luggage. Very cheap flights. Accommodation around $20US per night.

If cost is an issue, one can do the minibus visa run to Penang. They are 4000 baht, all included. The last time I looked, 4000 baht was around $127US.

Check below link. (I am in no way affiliated with this company. A quick google shows many visa run companies operating out of Phuket)

http://phuket-visarun.com/special_promotions.html

I have some friends that do the minibus visa run, regualrly.

So, that's 4000 baht for the visa run plus around 1000 baht for the 60 day visa to the Thai Embassy. Total: 5000 baht.

Around day 55 it's a trip to Phuket Town Immigration office and 1900 baht for a 1 month extension.

Total for 90 days is is around 6900 baht.

You have to do this 4 times a year. Total: 27,6000 baht.

From the OP:

School Fees: 25,000 baht

Materials: 3000 baht

Extensions: 3800 baht

Re-entry permit: 3800 baht

Then you have to attend classes and the Immigration Office 8 times a year.

Even without the incidentals of fuel to class and the Immigration Office, not to mention all the time taken with classes, that's 35,600 baht a year and I haven't added the cost of the actual Ed Visa itself, which I have no idea what costs.

In my opinion, living here on tourists visas is cheaper, easier, less time consuming and less risk than living here on an Ed Visa.

Also, less risk of the Ed Visa being stopped (as we are seeing now) the school increasing their fees, the school closing and keeping your money etc etc.

If we were to look at the same visa run, but flying, look at http://www.fireflyz.com.my/ and search some flights well into the future. It's around

$180US return.

How much is the actual Ed Visa itself?

Edited October 10, 2013 by NamKangMan

[hansgruber]

OK...can any of you explain why so many people, of here, are against this ED visa "loophole" does it hurt you, does it hurt Thailand, does it hurt anyone...just what is the problem with you people.

It's just being abused by the wrong type of people. Russian hookers and other illegal workers use it as a easy means of stay, in most cases it just cheaper and easier than other visa options as others have indicated but this just invites crime and scum.

Not all people are abusing it but unfortunately it gets ruined for the genuine people here to study whatever.

[LivinLOS]

Have you been along to immigration and asked for a retirement extension?

Age 50 is just a guideline, up to immigration if they give you one earlier.

I have never heard that.. Or anyone getting a retirement visa under 50.

[LivinLOS]

You fly in on 30 day VOAs and then get a 30 day extension.

No you dont..

[LivinLOS]

I do not know of one single person that is under 50 years old and has been given a retirement visa or extension.

I will hand this possibility over to other TV members for debunking or confirmation...

Does anyone know someone who has received a retirement visa who is not yet 50 years old?

Let me rephrase your question: Does anyone know someone below the age of 50 years who applied for a retirement extension under paragraph 5 of Police Order 777/2551 and was denied the extension?

It is difficult to predict whether you would be successful with an application under paragraph 5, as immigration might consider it not unreasonable to expect that you invest 10 million Baht in Thailand for an extension under paragraph 2.5(, which amount would represent approximately 3.2% of your assets of 1 million US dollars at the current exchange rate. I suspect that for the majority of foreigners on a retirement extension under paragraph 2.22(5) with a bank deposit of 800k Baht, this deposit amounts to considerably more than 3.2% of their total assets.

While I understand your comparison I look at it another way..

I can relatively easily generate a 10% return.. Putting 10 mil to one side means I 'lose' 1 mil per annum.. That 80 something k per month of lost revenue improves my quality of life by spending it in another country, or on another solution, fairly easily.

When it was 3 mil it was tempting, Its not unsual for me to have 3 mil in Thailand and I could have found a way.. But 10 ?? Even if it was under 1% of my assets, its still a poor use of them.

[LivinLOS]

The idea behind a tourist visa is so the children of expats can attend international schools in Thailand.

Madness..

[LivinLOS]

You can live out here on tourist visas indefinitely anyway. Closing this "loop hole" just wastes everyone a lot of time - if they don't like traveling that is.

I am a bit shocked that anyone in this thread actually sees something wrong with younger guys living out here indefinitely. Do you really think most of them are a "drain" on Thailand? Almost all white folks I know living out here indeed are just moneyed up in some way, at least compared to Thai people. The super broke ones are always living here illegally anyway...

Sure younger guys can live here, but not legally according to the law. So they are abusing the system, so measures are to be expected.

But let's be honest, this has nothing to do with the 'rich' under 50"s living here, but with the many people abusing the system and working illegally this way.

Then why not pursue them for 'working' rather than a blanket immigration rule which affects others who are using it properly.

Go after the actual target rather than throw such a wide net.

[LivinLOS]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

Its the "cheapest option", its not the "only" option for millionaires like you

I have heard that too. I am no expert but have come across individuals on a type of multi entry business visa issued for the purpose of exploring business opportunities in Thailand. Not sure if that could be renewed after year one of no investment so to speak. If you are a millionaire I suspect they will fall over themselves to issue it and become your personal advisor.

APEC cards, for non nationals of the host country, have been known to be issued (from Hong Kong apparently) very cheaply and with a 3 year validity.

[Rorri]

OK...can any of you explain why so many people, of here, are against this ED visa "loophole" does it hurt you, does it hurt Thailand, does it hurt anyone...just what is the problem with you people.

It's just being abused by the wrong type of people. Russian hookers and other illegal workers use it as a easy means of stay, in most cases it just cheaper and easier than other visa options as others have indicated but this just invites crime and scum.

Not all people are abusing it but unfortunately it gets ruined for the genuine people here to study whatever.

I'd like to see some evidence to prove your point, as for Russian "hookers" all the ones I've seen arrested are released after showing work permits as "actresses.," clear these "ladies" are not on ED visas. As for other "illegal" works, well they are here, but no only on ED visas. So, I still await a reason for peoples problem with this "loophole."

[IrishIvan]

The idea behind a tourist visa is so the children of expats can attend international schools in Thailand. 

 

Madness.. 

I meant ED visa

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[stevenl]

I do not know of one single person that is under 50 years old and has been given a retirement visa or extension.

I will hand this possibility over to other TV members for debunking or confirmation...

Does anyone know someone who has received a retirement visa who is not yet 50 years old?

Let me rephrase your question: Does anyone know someone below the age of 50 years who applied for a retirement extension under paragraph 5 of Police Order 777/2551 and was denied the extension?

It is difficult to predict whether you would be successful with an application under paragraph 5, as immigration might consider it not unreasonable to expect that you invest 10 million Baht in Thailand for an extension under paragraph 2.5(, which amount would represent approximately 3.2% of your assets of 1 million US dollars at the current exchange rate. I suspect that for the majority of foreigners on a retirement extension under paragraph 2.22(5) with a bank deposit of 800k Baht, this deposit amounts to considerably more than 3.2% of their total assets.

While I understand your comparison I look at it another way..

I can relatively easily generate a 10% return.. Putting 10 mil to one side means I 'lose' 1 mil per annum.. That 80 something k per month of lost revenue improves my quality of life by spending it in another country, or on another solution, fairly easily.

When it was 3 mil it was tempting, Its not unsual for me to have 3 mil in Thailand and I could have found a way.. But 10 ?? Even if it was under 1% of my assets, its still a poor use of them.

For a few years we were not bothered by these posts from LOS.

[Saradoc1972]

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

II have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

I honestly fail to see your problem.

Firstly, it's hardly your only option when you can apparently shell out some 30k$ to open a business and get it to run even only half profitably. Even if it loses you 200-300 $ a month for the 4 Thai workers, rent, and your chartered accountant after profits, nobody is going to mind.

And for a second option (I obviously don't know what income your assets generate, given the low interest rate at the moment) if I were you, I'd be touring the world or at least the countries in the vicinity. Rent a half-posh apartment, dump your stuff there, be Phuket or Pattaya-based, leave the country after 90 days, stay in Cambodia for 3 month (there's girls there, too), go to Laos for 3 weeks and tour the jungle with a motorbike, go sleighing in Mongolia....

No need for a back-to-back-visa ever. What's the problem when you can afford double rents?

Thailand's visa rules are very, very generous. Try getting a visa for a whole year in Russia or Europe on the sole grounds of you being able to support yourself.

Oh, btw, presently you only need to shell out some 65k$ for a condo in Latvia and they'll have you for 3 years. If you don't like those beaches, try Greece or Portugal.

[simon43]

I am just in the process of obtaining an ED visa so that I can study Mandarin Chinese for the next 6 months (whilst I'm building a new mini-hotel). most of my customers will be mainland Chinese, and from experience, the vast majority of these types of guests speak minimal English.

Once the hotel is built, I'll switch to a business visa and WP for managing the new business.

Simon

[NamKangMan]

OK...can any of you explain why so many people, of here, are against this ED visa "loophole" does it hurt you, does it hurt Thailand, does it hurt anyone...just what is the problem with you people.

It's just being abused by the wrong type of people. Russian hookers and other illegal workers use it as a easy means of stay, in most cases it just cheaper and easier than other visa options as others have indicated but this just invites crime and scum.

Not all people are abusing it but unfortunately it gets ruined for the genuine people here to study whatever.

I don't think the Ed Visa is cheaper. I've done the sums in another post. Minibus visa runs to Penang are cheaper. No wonder they are so popular and there are so many companies offering the service.

Anyway, I would like to know the true percentage of the "genuine" students compared to those that get the Ed Visa for the purpose of living here on it and show up at school for the bare minimum time, and under sufferance.

Edited October 10, 2013 by NamKangMan