Kamphaeng Phet villagers clash with police at forum

[whybother]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

The bashing isn't because of the dams. The bashing is because the government wouldn't let those affected attend the meeting.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hellodolly]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

The bashing isn't because of the dams. The bashing is because the government wouldn't let those affected attend the meeting.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Also as has been discussed on an earlier form proper environmental impact studies were never carried out. One contract had all ready been awarded to a Korean company with a dubious reputation before the court ordered the Government to follow the law.

Now why would they award a contract to a company with a dubious reputation before they have had all the data in and consulted with the people directly involved. Apparently there was another plan that would have been much less intrusive into the area and the population in general yet the government would not look into it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Forums can be very nasty places to get into debates.

I think that this one is great!!

Edited November 17, 2013 by SICHONSTEVE

[473geo]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

The bashing isn't because of the dams. The bashing is because the government wouldn't let those affected attend the meeting.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The bashing is the result of being drawn in by a headline, not in the result of intelligent consideration for the future of Thailand

[whybother]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

The bashing isn't because of the dams. The bashing is because the government wouldn't let those affected attend the meeting.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The bashing is the result of being drawn in by a headline, not in the result of intelligent consideration for the future of Thailand

The OP is about villagers not being able to have their say, not about the benefit or otherwise of the dams.

Do you think that because there is apparently benefit that the villagers shouldn't be allowed into the forum?

[473geo]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

The bashing isn't because of the dams. The bashing is because the government wouldn't let those affected attend the meeting.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The bashing is the result of being drawn in by a headline, not in the result of intelligent consideration for the future of Thailand

The OP is about villagers not being able to have their say, not about the benefit or otherwise of the dams.

Do you think that because there is apparently benefit that the villagers shouldn't be allowed into the forum?

Oh please, the government was instructed to follow due process, they did, some villagers didn't.....you can't have it both ways!

Non event

[JRSoul]

Oh please, the government was instructed to follow due process, they did, some villagers didn't.....you can't have it both ways!

Non event

".......local people directly affected by the projects were not told they needed to register to attend the forum."

Sounds like due process to me, with a guaranteed result. Have to wonder what the going rate was for those attending this forum.

[473geo]

Oh please, the government was instructed to follow due process, they did, some villagers didn't.....you can't have it both ways!

Non event

".......local people directly affected by the projects were not told they needed to register to attend the forum."

Sounds like due process to me, with a guaranteed result. Have to wonder what the going rate was for those attending this forum.

I guess it would shatter the point if they just had not bothered to register, not even a spokesperson, or figured they could just walk into the meeting, however large their numbers, it might even make them look disorganised, as opposed to the information starved group they claim to be.

[JRSoul]

".......local people directly affected by the projects were not told they needed to register to attend the forum."

Sounds like due process to me, with a guaranteed result. Have to wonder what the going rate was for those attending this forum.

I guess it would shatter the point if they just had not bothered to register, not even a spokesperson, or figured they could just walk into the meeting, however large their numbers, it might even make them look disorganised, as opposed to the information starved group they claim to be.

Why would "local people directly affected by the projects" fail to register when they are prepared to make the (unsuccessful) effort to attend? Does being disorganised remove your right to attend a forum on a project in your area? Wouldn't the onus to make the registration requirement known fall on the government?

do you ever get tired of defending every wrong move this government makes?

[473geo]

".......local people directly affected by the projects were not told they needed to register to attend the forum."

Sounds like due process to me, with a guaranteed result. Have to wonder what the going rate was for those attending this forum.

I guess it would shatter the point if they just had not bothered to register, not even a spokesperson, or figured they could just walk into the meeting, however large their numbers, it might even make them look disorganised, as opposed to the information starved group they claim to be.

Why would "local people directly affected by the projects" fail to register when they are prepared to make the (unsuccessful) effort to attend? Does being disorganised remove your right to attend a forum on a project in your area? Wouldn't the onus to make the registration requirement known fall on the government?

do you ever get tired of defending every wrong move this government makes?

Why would "local people directly affected by the projects" think turning up in numbers would gain access to an event? Did they bring written copy of their concerns to present to the forum, a simple method that would have most likely garnered a positive response and their concerns into the system....their objections are probably well recorded, but will not likely stop the water management project

Non event

Edited November 17, 2013 by 473geo

[473geo]

do you ever get tired of defending every wrong move this government makes?

I have other interests, for me Tvisa is an entertaining distraction, not a crusade as it is for some

[scorecard]

".......local people directly affected by the projects were not told they needed to register to attend the forum."

Sounds like due process to me, with a guaranteed result. Have to wonder what the going rate was for those attending this forum.

I guess it would shatter the point if they just had not bothered to register, not even a spokesperson, or figured they could just walk into the meeting, however large their numbers, it might even make them look disorganised, as opposed to the information starved group they claim to be.

Why would "local people directly affected by the projects" fail to register when they are prepared to make the (unsuccessful) effort to attend? Does being disorganised remove your right to attend a forum on a project in your area? Wouldn't the onus to make the registration requirement known fall on the government?

do you ever get tired of defending every wrong move this government makes?

Why would "local people directly affected by the projects" think turning up in numbers would gain access to an event? Did they bring written copy of their concerns to present to the forum, a simple method that would have most likely garnered a positive response and their concerns into the system....their objections are probably well recorded, but will not likely stop the water management project

Non event

Why do you want to make it difficult for people to be heard ego?

A public open hearing is what we are hopefully discussing here. Why should the locals people have to 'register'?

Surely they have a right to make their points without giving their names if that makes them feel more comfortable.

Plus it would very likely be true that some of these folks have concerns / fears about the officials (national and local) having their names, there are many cases on record, including in the last couple of years of people who 'oppose' disappearing, being murdered etc., with little to zero follow up by the authorities.

You said: " Did they bring written copy of their concerns to present to the forum, a simple method that would have most likely garnered a positive response and their concerns into the system ..... ".

Are all of these local folks familiar with making lists / documents to take to / present to such meetings? I rather doubt it. "...would have most likely garnished a positive result...". I suggest that you have no grounds whatever to support such a statement.

You said: "their objections are probably well recorded, but will not likely stop the water management project

Non event".

So you appear to be saying that the comments / concerns of the local are a waste of time for all concerned because it's already decided the project will be built anyway, so why bother with such events.

The locals have every right to be heard regardless of whether they have written down their concerns or not. Show them some respect!

[Robby nz]

Try reading this topic again Geo and you will see that people who are not affected by the scheme have been turning up in order to get the 400 B 'Travel allowance"

Paid to attend 'right ?

People not affected turning up.

And as you see from the present topic those who will be affected turned away.

Lampang villagers back building of reservoirs
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- Lampang villagers have agreed to back the government's plan to build three reservoirs in the province under the government's Bt350-billion water and flood management scheme.

Over 3,000 villagers yesterday attended the public forum held at Lampang Rajabhat University to discuss the impact of the three reservoirs. They demanded that the government push forward with its plans for their construction, arguing that the three projects would help resolve flood and drought problems, which had plagued the province in the past several years. The projects include Mae Teep reservoir, Mae On reservoir in Ngao district, and Huay Pong Phak reservoir in Thoen district.

Tambon Mae On's subdistrict headman Chalong Sirimangkalakul said plans to construct the reservoirs had been shelved for the past 20 years, but it was now time for their construction to go ahead. He estimated that more than 10,000 rai of agricultural land would benefit from the scheme.

"People will no longer need to look elsewhere to make a living if these three reservoirs are built," he said.

Phillip Surinwong, a villager from Ban Mae On, said he agreed with the government's proposed plan for the reservoirs, as villagers would be able to irrigate their land, thus ensuring the future of the region's agricultural industry.

He added that he was not worried about the impact of the reservoirs on the environment, as each project was located in an area of degraded forest.

Another villager, Ple Wongkheow, from Thoen district, said he also agreed with the government's proposal to construct the reservoirs, but he wanted the government to give him the exact locations.

Puan Yotsok, a villager from Thoen district, said he wanted the government to come up with measures to compensate villagers directly affected by the construction.

According to observations made by The Nation's reporters, a number of villagers faced problems related to the public forum's registration process, with the names of some failing to indicate that they were participating in the forum.

A number of villagers also registered to attend the forum, even though they were not directly affected by the reservoirs, so that they could collect the Bt400 travel allowance provided to them.

Meanwhile, villagers who attended a public forum in Uthai Thani province were divided on whether the proposed reservoir project in their region should go ahead.

[473geo]

Your post does a disservice to the intelligence of the Thai people Scorecard. You make sweeping assumptions to support your feeble case, then accuse me of lack of respect.

[473geo]

BANGKOK: -- Lampang villagers have agreed to back the government's plan to build three reservoirs in the province under the government's Bt350-billion water and flood management scheme.

As I said non event Rob

A number of people what 1,...you do not know!

[scorecard]

Your post does a disservice to the intelligence of the Thai people Scorecard. You make sweeping assumptions to support your feeble case, then accuse me of lack of respect.

I said "Surely they have a right to make their points without giving their names if that makes them feel more comfortable."

You call that a sweeping assumption?

[whybother]

BANGKOK: -- Lampang villagers have agreed to back the government's plan to build three reservoirs in the province under the government's Bt350-billion water and flood management scheme.

As I said non event Rob

A number of people what 1,...you do not know!

So you think that not allowing people to be heard is a non-event?

[473geo]

BANGKOK: -- Lampang villagers have agreed to back the government's plan to build three reservoirs in the province under the government's Bt350-billion water and flood management scheme.

As I said non event Rob

A number of people what 1,...you do not know!

So you think that not allowing people to be heard is a non-event?

What a silly question, I think geting all worked up, exagerating events and circumstances over a discussion/decision that the world over would never be greatly influenced at 'local' level is a 'non event'

Clear now?

[whybother]

BANGKOK: -- Lampang villagers have agreed to back the government's plan to build three reservoirs in the province under the government's Bt350-billion water and flood management scheme.

As I said non event Rob

A number of people what 1,...you do not know!

So you think that not allowing people to be heard is a non-event?

What a silly question, I think geting all worked up, exagerating events and circumstances over a discussion/decision that the world over would never be greatly influenced at 'local' level is a 'non event'

Clear now?

So these forums are useless and they shouldn't bother with them?

[kimamey]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'.

Obviously the government don't understand it.

Of course many will come to this thread to oppose the government and as mentioned elsewhere the headline drags you in. Since the headline is the only part you can see I don't know what else you expect. Maybe some do come on just to bash the government and not out of interest in the wellbeing of Thailand but some are interested as this is their home and the OP is about the ability of the public to attend a forum.

A quote from a later post by you.

I have other interests, for me Tvisa is an entertaining distraction, not a crusade as it is for some

You admit this is entertainment but complain about other posters motives.

[473geo]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'.

Obviously the government don't understand it.

Of course many will come to this thread to oppose the government and as mentioned elsewhere the headline drags you in. Since the headline is the only part you can see I don't know what else you expect. Maybe some do come on just to bash the government and not out of interest in the wellbeing of Thailand but some are interested as this is their home and the OP is about the ability of the public to attend a forum.

A quote from a later post by you.

I have other interests, for me Tvisa is an entertaining distraction, not a crusade as it is for some

You admit this is entertainment but complain about other posters motives.

'Entertaining distraction' does not exclude serious comment, and trying to make out Thailand is lala land, by promoting the ideal that a small group of local people carry anything but cursory influence in crucial national issues, does not in my opinion constitute anything other than disinformation, no matter how much one thinks this should be the case!

[hellodolly]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

The bashing isn't because of the dams. The bashing is because the government wouldn't let those affected attend the meeting.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The bashing is the result of being drawn in by a headline, not in the result of intelligent consideration for the future of Thailand

The bashing is because of the headlines in the newspapers reporting the Government was not doing their job. They were trying to circumvent the law.

I know it is hard to believe but that is what they were supposed to do. Contrary to what the PTP want. Read the court decision it says all affected. It says nothing about other qualifications.

If you feel that is a honorable way for the government to operate knowing the law disregarding it having to have a court insist that they do it and then they in there own sick minds figure a way out of it. You just go right ahead and defend it. You will earn Thaksins undying gratitude if he bothers to read the forum or one of his employes who is on the forum reports it to him. Fat chance of it happening but he would be most certainly grateful to you for defending his underhanded way of doing business.

I don't think they ever got the complete environmental affects study done and for sure never even tried to see how much the other plan would have been better or worse. The fact that they had awarded it to a Korean company before complying with the law should send up red flags all over the place. Then we find out the company has a dubious reputation. I smell a Rat in a red shirt. He just dosen't wear it in Dubai.

[473geo]

I'm sure the attendance of the villagers could have been crucial to the choice of companies to implement the scheme.....on planet Dolly

[whybother]

'Entertaining distraction' does not exclude serious comment, and trying to make out Thailand is lala land, by promoting the ideal that a small group of local people carry anything but cursory influence in crucial national issues, does not in my opinion constitute anything other than disinformation, no matter how much one thinks this should be the case!

Maybe you should have read the OP.

Public forums are being held nationwide to allow locals to voice concerns about projects planned in their areas under the government's mega water and flood scheme. The events were organised after Stop Global Warming Association (SGWA) president Srisuwan Janya filed a lawsuit requesting that the Central Administrative Court suspend the mega scheme, because it violated principles of public participation under the Constitution.

[473geo]

'Entertaining distraction' does not exclude serious comment, and trying to make out Thailand is lala land, by promoting the ideal that a small group of local people carry anything but cursory influence in crucial national issues, does not in my opinion constitute anything other than disinformation, no matter how much one thinks this should be the case!

Maybe you should have read the OP.

Public forums are being held nationwide to allow locals to voice concerns about projects planned in their areas under the government's mega water and flood scheme. The events were organised after Stop Global Warming Association (SGWA) president Srisuwan Janya filed a lawsuit requesting that the Central Administrative Court suspend the mega scheme, because it violated principles of public participation under the Constitution.

You really don't understand 'consultation' do you

Edited November 17, 2013 by 473geo

[EricBerg]

High time someone closes this topic...

[kimamey]

There will always be local and environmentalist hostility where water management schemes are proposed. Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'. It is unlikely in most cases that the decision will be reversed. There is much precedent for a government to make a decision based on the benefits delivered to the whole. I lived in an area where two new dams were built in my lifetime, sure there were the usual objections, in the end no real impact on the environment, a little farm land lost, and great benefit to industry and communities further afield.

It seems any old excuse to bash the government is a worthy cause these days, hardly coming from those interested in the well being of Thailand in this case.

Those familiar with current modes of conduct in corporate business will well understand the legal necessity of 'consultation' prior to a 'decision'.

Obviously the government don't understand it.

Of course many will come to this thread to oppose the government and as mentioned elsewhere the headline drags you in. Since the headline is the only part you can see I don't know what else you expect. Maybe some do come on just to bash the government and not out of interest in the wellbeing of Thailand but some are interested as this is their home and the OP is about the ability of the public to attend a forum.

A quote from a later post by you.

I have other interests, for me Tvisa is an entertaining distraction, not a crusade as it is for some

You admit this is entertainment but complain about other posters motives.

'Entertaining distraction' does not exclude serious comment, and trying to make out Thailand is lala land, by promoting the ideal that a small group of local people carry anything but cursory influence in crucial national issues, does not in my opinion constitute anything other than disinformation, no matter how much one thinks this should be the case!

So some posters think that the government aren't conducting the forums as they should and have posted their opinions on Thaivisa, which by the way is a forum. The villagers may not stop the construction but they are entitled to voice their concerns which then need to be balanced with the benefit for the rest of the country and we are entitled to post our views and comments even if it makes no difference.

I'm sure someone thought the amnesty bill could just be pushed through despite people's opinion. What would happen if the villagers decide to block construction traffic. There have been cases where villagers have at least slowed progress even if it was for selfish reasons.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/648761-dam-planning-meets-fierce-resistance-yom-river/

At the very least the plans can be altered to address some of their concerns.

As others have said this isn't about the dam but about the handling of the public forum. We can't change what's happening but then again you can't stop us posting but it hasn't stopped you generously giving us your time and opinions when you have other interests you could be pursuing. I'm sure we are all very grateful.

I assume you accept my point about the governments lack of knowledge regarding current modes of conduct in corporate business and the purpose of headlines.

Edited November 17, 2013 by kimamey

[whybother]

 

'Entertaining distraction' does not exclude serious comment, and trying to make out Thailand is lala land, by promoting the ideal that a small group of local people carry anything but cursory influence in crucial national issues, does not in my opinion constitute anything other than disinformation, no matter how much one thinks this should be the case!

 

Maybe you should have read the OP.

 

Public forums are being held nationwide to allow locals to voice concerns about projects planned in their areas under the government's mega water and flood scheme. The events were organised after Stop Global Warming Association (SGWA) president Srisuwan Janya filed a lawsuit requesting that the Central Administrative Court suspend the mega scheme, because it violated principles of public participation under the Constitution.

 

 

 

You really don't understand 'consultation' do you

 

I would have thought that consultation would involve locals being present to hear what has to be said and to be able to respond.

If I consult with my financial advisor, I would expect that he would allow me to be there.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

'Entertaining distraction' does not exclude serious comment, and trying to make out Thailand is lala land, by promoting the ideal that a small group of local people carry anything but cursory influence in crucial national issues, does not in my opinion constitute anything other than disinformation, no matter how much one thinks this should be the case!

Maybe you should have read the OP.

Public forums are being held nationwide to allow locals to voice concerns about projects planned in their areas under the government's mega water and flood scheme. The events were organised after Stop Global Warming Association (SGWA) president Srisuwan Janya filed a lawsuit requesting that the Central Administrative Court suspend the mega scheme, because it violated principles of public participation under the Constitution.

You really don't understand 'consultation' do you

I'd really like to see a definition of consultation which involves affected persons being barred from the forum. Perhaps that should be "negatively affected" as I'm sure those who will profit are prominently in attendance along with a swag of the disinterested collecting their travel allowance.

BTW do you think those who couldn't bother to register but came anyway were offered a travel allowance?

[rubl]

For:
Ban Mae On, Thoen district

Against:
Khlong Khlung district, Khlong Lan district

Projects (a.o.):
Mae Teep reservoir, Mae On reservoir in Ngao district
Huay Pong Phak reservoir in Thoen district

Now waiting for a map placing the districts and the proposed reservoirs and the pro/con's on where those reservoirs are planned.