Pheu Thai braces for the worst

[webfact]

POLITICS
Pheu Thai braces for the worst
Hataikarn Treesuwan
The Nation


Anti-government demonstrators at Democracy Monument place a picture of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on a krathong, a traditional decorative float, on Loy Krathong Day yesterday.

Experts on both sides agree court is not likely to back charter-change legislation

BANGKOK: -- The ruling Pheu Thai Party is preparing for the worst-case scenario on Wednesday when the Constitutional Court announces its ruling on the proposed amendment of the Constitution, a decision that could bring the government down.

The opposition Democrats and some senators have asked the court to rule on whether the bill to amend the Constitution, which was sponsored by 312 lawmakers, is lawful.

Last week, key members of both Pheu Thai and the Democrats analysed possible scenarios for the court's judgement. Both agreed the chances that the court would hand down a verdict that is in favour of the government were very slim.

Pheu Thai chief Jaruphong Ruangsuwan said yesterday that he was worried about the court judgement, as it might pose a risk to the party and eventually seal the fate of the government under Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

Under the proposed amendment, all 200 senators would be elected, rather than having 76 elected and 74 appointed as currently. Also, the amendment would allow the relatives and spouses of sitting parliamentarians to run. The opposition is worried that the amendment would allow the government to bring its associates into the Senate easily.

Analysts see three likely choices for the court.

One is for the court to declare the charter amendment unconstitutional and order the process stopped, even though Yingluck has already submitted the amendment to the Palace for royal endorsement. The second would extend the first option by requiring the 312 MPs and senators who sponsored the charter-amendment bill to take responsibility.

The third would be for the court to rule the amendment unconstitutional on grounds that it attempts to change the country's system of government. The court could then dissolve the ruling parties that supported the amendment, including Pheu Thai, and ban their executives from politics.

That means four political parties would be disbanded and 55 politicians banned for five years, including 19 executives of Pheu Thai, 11 of Chart Thai Pattana, 17 of Chart Pattana and eight of Phalang Chon. Among them, four are ministers - Pheu Thai leader Jaruphong, his deputies Kittiratt Na-Ranong and Plodprasop Suraswadi, plus Phalang Chon leader Sontaya Kunplome.

Yingluck could survive the ruling, but the Democrats would pressure her to take responsibility, said a senior Democrat member, who has joined in the rally at Democracy Monument.

"Democrat MPs have warned her to delay the submission [of the charter-change legislation] for royal endorsement, but she decided to rush the process. She cannot deny responsibility," he said.

Legal experts at Pheu Thai hope that the court would simply rule the amendment unconstitutional and order it stopped, but there is also a high possibility that the court would go so far as to outlaw parties involved.

The key concern is that four or five top Pheu Thai Party executives are among the 312 lawmakers who sponsored the charter change.

Three of the nine justices are likely to have dismissed the petition citing a lack of authority to rule on the constitutional amendment, Pheu Thai experts said. They are Chut Chonlavorn, Boonsong Kulbupar and Udomsak Nitimontree.

The new member, Twekiat Menakanist, might also excuse himself or abstain from voting, as he has not worked on the case from the beginning. The ruling could then come down to the opinions of five justices, they said.

If the court ruling favours the opposition, it could calm protesters led by senior Democrat Suthep Thaugsuban. But red-shirts would probably take to the streets instead.


-- The Nation 2013-11-18

[Ricardo]

Cut the number of Senators proposed, from 200 to 100, and cut the cost of having 'em !

Except that that would mean fewer 'jobs for the boys'

[waza]

Is there enough Shinawatras to fill the senate seats?

[whybother]

all 200 senators would be elected, rather than having 76 elected and 74 appointed as currently.

Are they planning to raise the number of senators from 150 to 200? Or maybe they're planning on getting better reporters.

[JRSoul]

all 200 senators would be elected, rather than having 76 elected and 74 appointed as currently.

Are they planning to raise the number of senators from 150 to 200? Or maybe they're planning on getting better reporters.

I believe the extra 50 will be party list senators, so that Thaksin can reward more criminals.

[Thait Spot]

The manufacture of government positions in order to expand Thaksin cronyism

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

I can hear the red pigeons rehearsing already - judicial coup, judicial coup..........

[borisloosebrain]

What a dysfunctional mess !

[Local Drunk]

It sounds like they are expecting it to go very badly for them.

[NongKhaiKid]

I can hear the red pigeons rehearsing already - judicial coup, judicial coup..........

The government can always do what their good at when things go against them, just ignore it.

[ramrod711]

The court could then dissolve the ruling parties that supported the amendment, including Pheu Thai, and ban their executives from politics.

That means four political parties would be disbanded and 55 politicians banned for five years, including 19 executives of Pheu Thai, 11 of Chart Thai Pattana, 17 of Chart Pattana and eight of Phalang Chon. Among them, four are ministers - Pheu Thai leader Jaruphong, his deputies Kittiratt Na-Ranong and Plodprasop Suraswadi, plus Phalang Chon leader Sontaya Kunplome.

I can hardly wait for this band of morons to be out of office, but this will solve nothing. Banning executives and dissolving parties has to stop, it solves nothing and robs people of their democratic right of choice.

[Thainy Tim]

The court could then dissolve the ruling parties that supported the amendment, including Pheu Thai, and ban their executives from politics.

That means four political parties would be disbanded and 55 politicians banned for five years, including 19 executives of Pheu Thai, 11 of Chart Thai Pattana, 17 of Chart Pattana and eight of Phalang Chon. Among them, four are ministers - Pheu Thai leader Jaruphong, his deputies Kittiratt Na-Ranong and Plodprasop Suraswadi, plus Phalang Chon leader Sontaya Kunplome.

I can hardly wait for this band of morons to be out of office, but this will solve nothing. Banning executives and dissolving parties has to stop, it solves nothing and robs people of their democratic right of choice.

Actually, Not punishing ministers or parties robs the people of their democratic right of choice.

When a government and its coalition lackies attempt to ram constitutional changes of this nature through the system, they are driving an axe straight through democracy itself.

Trying to manipulate a system for their own benefit, in order to make the senate a mirror image of a corrupt government robs everyone of the higher level of authority that is supposed to be there to stop highly unconstitutional and unpopular bills from being accepted into law. By the very nature of the senate, it is meant to be 100% above any kind of influence. By creating a senate that becomes a lapdog of the government you remove all democracy.

If the reds support this move, then they quite simply don't want a democracy and wish to force the country into an out and out dictatorship. They don't even deserve to hold a vote.

Pheu Thai chief Jaruphong Ruangsuwan said yesterday that he was worried about the court judgement, as it might pose a risk to the party and eventually seal the fate of the government under Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra

So why the hell did you support it and vote for it then?

This is what happens when you bend to the word of Thaksin who is sat safely in his little bolt hole in Dubai while everyone else is roasting on the spit. Playing politics when he is the last person on the planet who has any right to interfere in Thailand's politics and constitutional system.

Personally, I hope they suffer the worst outcome possible which will serve as a warning to everyone else.... Constitutions and democratic systems are above the politicians for a reason and an attempt to change it for cynical purposes is tantamount to treason in my book.

[worgeordie]

Maybe the Government would not mind been dissolved,as it would

give them their only way out of this mess they have gotten the

country in ,trying to ram the amnesty through solely for the benefit

of the great leader, HUGE loses on rice,and other policies that are

tearing the country apart, have new election and win it ,blame the

whole mess on the former Government,and start the same cycle

once again.

regards Worgeordie

[jayboy]

I can hear the red pigeons rehearsing already - judicial coup, judicial coup..........

Not really any kind of intelligent or even interestingly provocative comment.One may as well say I hear can hear the yellow tits saying already - votebuying, votebuying.

Save your bar talk for the bar.

[jayboy]

all 200 senators would be elected, rather than having 76 elected and 74 appointed as currently.

Are they planning to raise the number of senators from 150 to 200? Or maybe they're planning on getting better reporters.

I believe the extra 50 will be party list senators, so that Thaksin can reward more criminals.

There's a perfectly legitimate debate to be had whether the Senate should be wholly elected or appointed, and there's no "right" answer.Obviously if the Senate appointed members were simply party hacks that doesn't make any sense.It's dishonest to pretend that the present Senate isn't packed with the unelected elites favourites - many unreconstructed reactionaries.So the discussion about Thaksin putting his own people in is somewhat ironical.Personally I'm not too exercised about this (ie an establishment bias in the Senate) and in fact an awkward Senate can form part of the checks and balance on the government with the electoral mandate.After all isn't this what the House of Lords (with a built in conservative bias) did for decades.

[MaxLee]

This ain't over by a long shot, why do I have this uneasy feeling swirling around???

[GentlemanJim]

I can hear the red pigeons rehearsing already - judicial coup, judicial coup..........

Not really any kind of intelligent or even interestingly provocative comment.One may as well say I hear can hear the yellow tits saying already - votebuying, votebuying.

Save your bar talk for the bar.

And you consider that your post is kind of intelligent or even interestingly provocative? Why didn't you follow your own advice and save your bar talk for the bar?

Interesting to read that PTP seem to know how three of the judges are already going to act and even have the audacity to name them.! I wonder if they have large lunch boxes?

Three of the nine justices are likely to have dismissed the petition citing a lack of authority to rule on the constitutional amendment, Pheu Thai experts said. They are Chut Chonlavorn, Boonsong Kulbupar and Udomsak Nitimontree.

[whybother]

There's a perfectly legitimate debate to be had whether the Senate should be wholly elected or appointed, and there's no "right" answer.Obviously if the Senate appointed members were simply party hacks that doesn't make any sense.It's dishonest to pretend that the present Senate isn't packed with the unelected elites favourites - many unreconstructed reactionaries.So the discussion about Thaksin putting his own people in is somewhat ironical.Personally I'm not too exercised about this (ie an establishment bias in the Senate) and in fact an awkward Senate can form part of the checks and balance on the government with the electoral mandate.After all isn't this what the House of Lords (with a built in conservative bias) did for decades.

I don't think the debate should be about appointed vs elected. Fully elected is the only democratic way to go. But I think there needs to be stronger checks and balances before that happens.

[Local Drunk]

This ain't over by a long shot, why do I have this uneasy feeling swirling around???

You've been here too long and you know how it goes...

[Local Drunk]

I can hear the red pigeons rehearsing already - judicial coup, judicial coup..........

Not really any kind of intelligent or even interestingly provocative comment.One may as well say I hear can hear the yellow tits saying already - votebuying, votebuying.

Save your bar talk for the bar.

And you consider that your post is kind of intelligent or even interestingly provocative? Why didn't you follow your own advice and save your bar talk for the bar?

Interesting to read that PTP seem to know how three of the judges are already going to act and even have the audacity to name them.! I wonder if they have large lunch boxes?

Three of the nine justices are likely to have dismissed the petition citing a lack of authority to rule on the constitutional amendment, Pheu Thai experts said. They are Chut Chonlavorn, Boonsong Kulbupar and Udomsak Nitimontree.

The PTP aren't the only ones that know. I think that the "Headlines" for Wednesday's late editions have already been written.

[dominique355]

The whole concept of a second house, the Senate, doesn't make sense for Thailand, anyway.

In countries with a strong decentralization, like the USA or Switzerland, the second house is representing the states (cantons) rather than the people. But Thailand is very centralized, provinces or regions have no independence whatsoever.

So what is the point in electing and running a second house in Thailand, anyway? It would make more sense to have a senate with appointed senators, who are kind of "supervising" the house of representative. The problem is, who appoints these senators and based on what criteria. Also, appointing rather than electing, seems to be undemocratic. But with a house of representatives which runs the show like a dictator, giving not even time and voice to the opposition, perhaps a senat is necessary.

Or what is more urgent, a sense of democtratic fairness among the majority.

Wasn't it the Pheu Thai party who invited ex PM Tony Blair who then said that one of the fundamental ingredients to a democracy is the respect for the minority?

[Pib]

all 200 senators would be elected, rather than having 76 elected and 74 appointed as currently.

Are they planning to raise the number of senators from 150 to 200? Or maybe they're planning on getting better reporters.

I believe the extra 50 will be party list senators, so that Thaksin can reward more criminals.

The Pheu Thai party just needs a bigger pig tough...so many relatives to feed.

However, for me, I got to agree with the concept of "all" senators being elected versus some elected and some appointed....the appointed part is always going to be a reward system like how governments award ambassadorships to people who donated a lot of cash to an election campaign and who can't even spell the title...and probably have to been shown on a map the country they will be moving to as the new ambassador.

[fab4]

I can hear the red pigeons rehearsing already - judicial coup, judicial coup..........

You only had to read the other paper yesterday to hear that being said , and being said in the context that it would be the third Judicial Coup at that. If it is not a Judicial Coup what is it ? Nobody had a problem with the 1997 constitution which was the first time there was a fully elected Senate (of 200 Senators). Nobody of course, that is until the Military Junta come along and changed it to its present mix of appointed and elected Senators.

And your input is..............?

Edited November 18, 2013 by fab4

[Spare]

The Shinawatras is history. Yingluck better go onine to buy o/w tkt to Dubai before the court freeze freeze her credit card/account.

[Local Drunk]

all 200 senators would be elected, rather than having 76 elected and 74 appointed as currently.

Are they planning to raise the number of senators from 150 to 200? Or maybe they're planning on getting better reporters.

I believe the extra 50 will be party list senators, so that Thaksin can reward more criminals.

The Pheu Thai party just needs a bigger pig tough...so many relatives to feed.

However, for me, I got to agree with the concept of "all" senators being elected versus some elected and some appointed....the appointed part is always going to be a reward system like how governments award ambassadorships to people who donated a lot of cash to an election campaign and who can't even spell the title...and probably have to been shown on a map the country they will be moving to as the new ambassador.

I disagree that the Senate should be fully elected Thailand. We've just witnessed how the house, who is fully elected, passed an amnesty bill along party lines that was not only rejected by the people but the Senate. It's an awkward system of checks and balances here but it seems to have worked or be working in this instance. Honestly, I think that all members of the Senate should be appointed, thus the Senate would be depoliticized and provide a better system of checks and balances against the House. The problem that I have with my theory is, "By who and how would they be appointed?".

Edited November 18, 2013 by Local Drunk

[jaidam]

The Shinawatras is history. Yingluck better go onine to buy o/w tkt to Dubai before the court freeze freeze her credit card/account.

I don't think the Thai courts have any jurisdiction over bank accounts in the British Virgin islands?

[h90]

Are they planning to raise the number of senators from 150 to 200? Or maybe they're planning on getting better reporters.

I believe the extra 50 will be party list senators, so that Thaksin can reward more criminals.

The Pheu Thai party just needs a bigger pig tough...so many relatives to feed.

However, for me, I got to agree with the concept of "all" senators being elected versus some elected and some appointed....the appointed part is always going to be a reward system like how governments award ambassadorships to people who donated a lot of cash to an election campaign and who can't even spell the title...and probably have to been shown on a map the country they will be moving to as the new ambassador.

I disagree that the Senate should be fully elected Thailand. We've just witnessed how the house, who is fully elected, passed an amnesty bill along party lines that was not only rejected by the people but the Senate. It's an awkward system of checks and balances here but it seems to have worked or be working in this instance. Honestly, I think that all members of the Senate should be appointed, thus the Senate would be depoliticized and provide a better system of checks and balances against the House. The problem that I have with my theory is, "By who and how would they be appointed?".

If you fully elect the senate, you better dissolve it all together. As it would be full with the same party list politicians and relatives of them.

You could have a automatic appointing...Just as example:

Every former premier, former heads of the constitution court, former army boss, former head of the national bank. Former rectors of the top 3 universities.

Some for lifetime some for rotating. Maybe add some elected which need a minimum qualification like they were governor, Minister, University Prof, etc etc before.

[Crushdepth]

Letting the relatives of MPs serve as senators? Now why would anyone want a change like that :-)

[Local Drunk]

"If you fully elect the senate, you better dissolve it all together. As it would be full with the same party list politicians and relatives of them.

You could have a automatic appointing...Just as example:

Every former premier, former heads of the constitution court, former army boss, former head of the national bank. Former rectors of the top 3 universities.

Some for lifetime some for rotating. Maybe add some elected which need a minimum qualification like they were governor, Minister, University Prof, etc etc before."

Good idea h90... Appointed by people without a dog in the fight.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Local Drunk

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. Please stay on-topic.