Huge marches in Bangkok today

[jpeg]

For what it's worth; Straits times story here:

I may have got my protests mixed up, it's so hard to keep track. The pic and 100K quote was for the march at the democracy monument.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/bangkok-anti-government-rallies-set-spread-20131124

The foreign press has been notoriously erroneous in their reporting of events here. From Head to the BBC showing a large gathering of red and yellow shirt protesters facing off - in a football stadium. Turned out these were Indonesians at a local match

[h90]

"Get over your obsessions with Thaksin and see through the smoke and mirrors."

If you mean the smoke and mirrors of of the PTP, then yes the people are beginning to see through, hence the anti government rallies that are happening as we speak and to be honest, they see through the smoke and mirrors of the Demos as well. They are just trying to get rid of the worst offenders first.

If the next govt tries the same, I think they will be met with the same. It may look like the protests are the same old hat to many, but it's a real warning from the people to the government. Enough!

People are aware of government corruption, not least of all myself but that is not the issue and never has been.

If this attempt to oust the government succeeds and the PAD, Democrats and Suthep get their way there will be no more democracy for Thailand. End of, done and dusted. It will be mere lip service to appease the US and other Western nations.

Any protests or attempts to unseat their position will be met with force. Expect to see numerous arrests under article 112.

It will make the sharpened sticks and catapults of the red-shirt thugs look like a picnic.

This has been planned since 2005/06. It isn't a spontaneous event caused by government corruption and incompetence but that is what they want you to believe.

"Oh look at the last government, look what they did! Better we install our unelected cronies instead, we're far less malevolent and benign!"

I was here when Abhisit was premier: more democracy than now. No mass arrests.

I was here when Surayud was premier: even not elected the government acted more democratic than this and organized free elections (which were won by Thaksin, so no fraud) and no mass arrests.

I was here when Thaksin was here and he started his war against drugs with 3000 dead and half had nothing to do with narcotics and at that time he was very proud of it.

I was here at several elections where I always saw vote buying from Thaksin. While I admit there might be vote buying from the Democrats, I never saw it.

From all the governments only Thaksin tried to destroy the system of checks and balance and the separation of power. So make a reality check.

But you weren't here before Thaksin, and that's why most people are obsessed with the man; they simply don't know anything else.

If Abhisit was truly more democratic he would have been elected in a general election with a mandate from the people. He wasn't. He never has been. He came to power after a deal with the most corrupt faction in Thai politics and a judicial coup.

When an election was called the people again chose a Thaksin affiliated government.

Save the allegations of vote buying by Thaksin parties only, that is one of the main reasons why the Friends of Newin faction was recruited by the Democrats.

Before Thaksin...Chavalit bankrupt Thailand with Thaksin as deputy you mean?

As you may or may not know, in Thailand you don't elect the premier, neither Thaksin nor Abhisit nor Yingluck. The majority in Parliament elect the premier. They did that with Samak, Somchai and Abhisit in the same process.

While I agree that the coalition partner of Abhisit are corrupt. But you forgot to mention that before Abhisit, Somchai (Thaksins brother in law) was in a coalition with them and after Abhisit, Yingluck is in coalition with them. But of course you only blame Abhisit. Could it be that you are a little biased?

So Newin (before best friend with Thaksin) was recruited for vote buying? How does that work? Without Democrats Newin would not buy votes for his party? How is he vote buying for the Democrats???

[LivinLOS]

The deciding factor will be Isaan. That is like Texas+Kansas here. Nothing moves here without them in the floor level.

Sorry to say Issan is nothing but a bunch of poor people with little say in Thailand> please do not believe your love one who thin,s the whole world is Issan They just very poor people some work very hard while other live off their daughters and gay sons

Very poor people yes.. Large population that seals elections also yes.

Very poor people easier to bribe through direct cash payments or government largess also.

[lemoncake]

Suthep announces the aims which is an abandonment of the current democratic process.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/116332/suthep-calls-for-change-to-administration-system-by-the-monarchy-in-true-form/

May I ask, what do you see wrong with the old ways??

New , the so called democratic ways have not exactly worked or benefited anyone but few individuals.

May be Thailand is not ready for democracy, may be going back is the way to bring unity

[h90]

For what it's worth; Straits times story here:

I may have got my protests mixed up, it's so hard to keep track. The pic and 100K quote was for the march at the democracy monument.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/bangkok-anti-government-rallies-set-spread-20131124

The foreign press has been notoriously erroneous in their reporting of events here. From Head to the BBC showing a large gathering of red and yellow shirt protesters facing off - in a football stadium. Turned out these were Indonesians at a local match

seems he removed it I can't see it.

[JRSoul]

I don't see any relationship between democracy and a government, fairly elected or not, who believes they can do anything they damn well please. The amnesty attempt was just the icing on the cake of financially disastrous decisions that benefited members of this government, all done ex-budget and ex-parliament to avoid scrutiny, and with the major investigative bodies (DSI and AG) well and truly paid off, and while others have had their budgets markedly reduced.

Any decision which goes against them is met with the threat of violence from their armed militia. Those of you who call that democracy should take another long look.

[Scott123]

Constitution does not prohibit a revolution.

[klauskunkel]

As of 8.30pm, red-shirt leaders claimed 60,000 people had converged there.

My wife was watching Thai tv news last night, if what they were showing was current, i would estimate less than 5,000 people.

I was at Rajamangkala yesterday around 5:30pm (I go running there...), at that time maybe about 5,000 red shirts

I saw about 20 buses parked in streets in the area

Edited November 25, 2013 by klauskunkel

[bangkokpoppys]

Just curious - forgive me if this is a stupid question - if you asked the question "What would stop the protests" - what's the answer to that? I can't get a straight answer from Thai's as each one has a strong opinion one sided, and most farangs I know didn't know there were protests on or impeachment proceedings against the whole government!

[SOTIRIOS]

...wow.....that's a lot of people.......maybe there is hope for Thailand......

[rijb]

It is not about corruption.

It is about ousting a democratically elected government and moving back to an undemocratic system as was called for by Suthep yesterday.

Get over your obsessions with Thaksin and see through the smoke and mirrors.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

noncence you havnt got a clue what your saying...its about 1 person only and the rampant corruption...watch the news and keep up..or stop trolling..fool

No it isn't but thanks for your informative and thought-provoking contribution.

Perhaps you should read Andrew MacGregor Marshall's article 'Thailand's Era of Insanity' and educate yourself about what is really going on.

It's no surprise most Westerners have been duped, most don't understand Thai or Thai culture in the slightest. However I am still astounded at the amount of so-called educated expats that remain fooled.

If you seriously believe its not about corruption and public outrage over the amnesty then I invite you to discuss the issue with a few natives.

Read a book did you? Awesome! You must be a real authority on Thai culture.

Do you seriously believe that the 'natives' are not being manipulated by both sides? The maniplulators only care about corruption when they're not at the receiving end. The amnesty is also about money - who has it, who stole it and who already spent it.

One book doesn't make anyone an expert (your deduction). But, a discussion (in English?) with a few natives doesn't make you an authority either.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Good luck. I hope today is the day the goal is achieved and this is the end of Thailands problems with the Shinawatra family

Go Suthep!!!

[jpeg]

For what it's worth; Straits times story here:

I may have got my protests mixed up, it's so hard to keep track. The pic and 100K quote was for the march at the democracy monument.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/bangkok-anti-government-rallies-set-spread-20131124

The foreign press has been notoriously erroneous in their reporting of events here. From Head to the BBC showing a large gathering of red and yellow shirt protesters facing off - in a football stadium. Turned out these were Indonesians at a local match

seems he removed it I can't see it.

Apologies, I should have mentioned that this clip was during the same period Head was reporting on the rallies in 2008.

[webfact]

Demonstrators target free TV channels

BANGKOK: -- Anti-Thaksin regime demonstrators today vowed to “visit” five free TV channels _ 3,5,7, 9 and 11 _ in what they said were the distorted facts about their protest rallies aired on their channels.

Protest leader Suthep Thuagsuban said demonstrators will present executives of these free TV channels with flowers, whistles and national flags and some explanations of their anti-Thaksin regime protest.

He said some news channels did not report the exact figures on the number of protesters with some of them estimating the number of a few ten thousands, while in fact the number has risen to over a million.

Besides some channel even did not have any report on the protest, he said.

“We will visit them tomorrow to give them some flowers, whistles and national flags,” Suthep said.

Aside the free TV channels, Suthep also said protesters would also march to all headquarters of the three armed forces, the Supreme Command Headquarters, the Government Office Center on Chaeng Wattana road to persuade all the military personnel, government officials to stop serving what he called illegitimate government as now they could no longer allowed to run the country as soon as they rejected the ruling of the Constitutional Court.

He said rejecting the ruling was tantamount to reject the Constitutional which is the country’s supreme law.

Therefore, he said, the people would also reject this government.

He said protesters would persuade all government officials to take side now whether they wanted to be with the people or with the illegitimate government.

The former Surat Thani MP also slammed the police chief for what he said was the work of the police to trap buses from the South to join the rally in Bangkok with sharpened nails.

Several buses had their vehicles punctured by nail traps on their way to Bangkok at Surat Thani and Chumphon.

He said what was saddest was that one of the punctured bus lost balance and overturned, causing injuries to many passengers.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/demonstrators-target-free-tv-channels/

-- Thai PBS 2013-11-25

[Hawkman]

It is not about corruption.

It is about ousting a democratically elected government and moving back to an undemocratic system as was called for by Suthep yesterday.

Get over your obsessions with Thaksin and see through the smoke and mirrors.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

These people, business people, educators, students etc are holding a peaceful protest against a puppet led, disgrace of a government. They are exercising their constitutional right to do so. As long as they remain peaceful, they should be supported by anyone who values democracy.

You obviously haven't been listening to what Suthep was saying on stage yesterday. Calling for a return to something similar to the pre-1932 system.

Really, that's what it has been about all along, with the smokescreen of removing this government through allegations of corruption and malfeasance.

The right wing PAD were very vocal about returning Thailand to an undemocratic system also, this is just a continuation of their earlier attempts to consolidate power, overthrow an elected government and return Thailand to the dark ages.

It really is quite terrifying that educated Westerners can't see what is happening here.

I think it's quite terrifying that an educated Westerner is obsessed, along with the red shirts about a certain Thaksin; where they should not be focussing on him, but focusing on the people in the country.

Why are you you red shirts obsessed with him? Why does he need to be your leader? Can't you plan and think for yourselves? Why do you need him and his puppet? The country and it's people are sick of being lied to and seeing blatant corruption and putting one megalomaniac's lust for power over the good of the country and the people. Even Thais who stay clear of both sides are saying that they no longer trust what Yingluck says - they keep asking for us to trust them, but you have to earn that trust.

If you think Thaksin is so good for this country, how will the rice pledging scheme help Thailand and the country financially? Do you think it's ethically and morally right - like Thaksin did - to sell his telecommunications business and then change the law one day before the sale to avoid millions in tax? Do you really trust this government to spend this 2 trillion loan wisely and not see any of it fall to corruption or Thaksin's pockets? Do you really believe that for one second? Why is it that most educated Thais and foreigners are AGAINST what PT and Thaksin are doing, whereas the uneducated and the corrupt are FOR them?

I don't think I know many Thais who are NOT protesting about what's going on they are sick of what this Government are doing to this country putting one man before its people. But you think this is okay?

And before you mention, none of them like Suthep too, they are not going there to support him but to rally against the government.

I think it's you that has educating on what's really going on here.

[h90]

For what it's worth; Straits times story here:

I may have got my protests mixed up, it's so hard to keep track. The pic and 100K quote was for the march at the democracy monument.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/bangkok-anti-government-rallies-set-spread-20131124

The foreign press has been notoriously erroneous in their reporting of events here. From Head to the BBC showing a large gathering of red and yellow shirt protesters facing off - in a football stadium. Turned out these were Indonesians at a local match

seems he removed it I can't see it.

Apologies, I should have mentioned that this clip was during the same period Head was reporting on the rallies in 2008.

I was at some protests in the twitters were freelance reporter offered there pictures and stories to newspapers......And there was a fair share of jokes about him.

[Bpuumike]

What's the plan if they do get the government to step down?

Very good question and I can't think of an equally good answer.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Bpuumike

[SICHONSTEVE]

Suthep announces the aims which is an abandonment of the current democratic process.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/116332/suthep-calls-for-change-to-administration-system-by-the-monarchy-in-true-form/

Let's for a moment entertain this claim, the next question is then: what does it mean for foreigners residing, working, vacationing here?

What is Mr. Suthep's stance on that?

I think Mr. Suthep has a right to voice his opinion and his desires, but he should stick to rallying to gather votes for the next election,

not push for a complete collapse right here and now.

The other paper has an article stating Suthep won't just accept Yingluk's resignation or a house dissolution.

He wants to go the whole way and destroy the elected government so they can install their version of democracy where people don't actually get a say in who rules over them.

Suthep wants to turf out corrupt people intent on destroying Thailand for their own purpose and bully for him for sacrificing his political career in order to do it, he is doing everyone a favour, even though the thicko people from the North (and you) haven't got the intelligence to realise it!!

Idi Amin was supposedly elected with 99% of the votes (can't get much more democratic than that, can you) but he made a mess of Uganda - at least Thaksin has never fed dissenters to the crocodiles, he just orders people to shoot them.

I like your line that 'us farangs' have been duped - seems that there are a few that have been but it is people of your ilk and not us!!

I like to think that there is hope for you, but sadly there doesn't seem to be any!!

[Bpuumike]

As of 8.30pm, red-shirt leaders claimed 60,000 people had converged there.

My wife was watching Thai tv news last night, if what they were showing was current, i would estimate less than 5,000 people.

Singapore papers are reporting 100K

100K for the red shirts at Rajamangala, or 100K for the anti-government.

If there are 100K at Rajamangala, that would mean it is 35K over capacity (seating). It would be 100% full including on the grass. No photos have shown anything like that.

There seem to be plenty (1500 -2000?) on the grass but very few on the seats.

Not something I normally use (coming from the UK)but the New York Times website has been giving some good daily updates on the situation here.

More balanced and factual than anything I find locally.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Bpuumike

[Baerboxer]

As of 8.30pm, red-shirt leaders claimed 60,000 people had converged there.

My wife was watching Thai tv news last night, if what they were showing was current, i would estimate less than 5,000 people.

Singapore papers are reporting 100K

100K for the red shirts at Rajamangala, or 100K for the anti-government.

If there are 100K at Rajamangala, that would mean it is 35K over capacity (seating). It would be 100% full including on the grass. No photos have shown anything like that.

I don't usually comment on protest numbers because they can never be verified and generally quoted numbers reflect political preferences (wish fulfilment more than a desire to deceive).However some of the figures quoted are ridiculous.You are right:there were nothing like 100,000 redshirts out yesterday, more like 20,000.Equally claims of 400,000 for the opposition protests were clearly ludicrous, more like 150,000 max (though still very large).It's one thing for us to bandy numbers on this forum but what seems unacceptable is for newspapers to take the same cavalier attitude

Correct. It's almost impossible to get real numbers on anything in Thailand. People inflate or deflate them to emphasize their own point of view. Many have posted comments before on the lack of investigative and unbiased journalism and media in Thailand. They print what they're told (as do many in the West!).

What is significant, regardless of the actual precise number, is the amount of anti-government protesters. I think this is a much larger number than PTP thought likely. I won't speculate on the number, because its really impossible to do that from looking at photographs with any accuracy.

Hopefully all sides will refrain from violence and intimidation whilst exercising their legal right to peaceful protest.

[slipperylobster]

hope they do not target the airport......again. Devastating.

[allan michaud]

You are correct in that as far as Suthep and co are concerned this is about getting their noses back in the trough, however, for a lot of people Thaksin is no better and in fact a lot worse as he seems determined to destroy the Thai economy (he will benefit massively if the Baht collapses) Thailand's so called 'democracy' is a joke and Thaksin clearly wants power at any cost. I think you will find the majority of 'educated' westerners like myself would love to see an end to the traditional elites, the problem is Thaksin is a megalomaniac and a very nasty piece of work that will stop at nothing and is in no way an improvement. What the constitution court did last week was appalling as far as any democracy is concerned, however, what PTP are trying to do by forcing through the laughably named 'amnesty' bill is equally appalling.

It is not about corruption.

It is about ousting a democratically elected government and moving back to an undemocratic system as was called for by Suthep yesterday.

Get over your obsessions with Thaksin and see through the smoke and mirrors.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

These people, business people, educators, students etc are holding a peaceful protest against a puppet led, disgrace of a government. They are exercising their constitutional right to do so. As long as they remain peaceful, they should be supported by anyone who values democracy.

You obviously haven't been listening to what Suthep was saying on stage yesterday. Calling for a return to something similar to the pre-1932 system.

Really, that's what it has been about all along, with the smokescreen of removing this government through allegations of corruption and malfeasance.

The right wing PAD were very vocal about returning Thailand to an undemocratic system also, this is just a continuation of their earlier attempts to consolidate power, overthrow an elected government and return Thailand to the dark ages.

It really is quite terrifying that educated Westerners can't see what is happening here.

Personally I cannot understand any supposedly educated westerners supporting Thaksin, can you not see what this man is? Just because I, and I am sure many others, don't like or trust Thaksin it does not mean I support murdering scumbags like Suthep and I am pretty sure it's no different for many Thai's. From my perspective as the father of a 10 year old Thai/farang I fear what Thaksin's Thailand will be like far more than I fear what the Dems would do. It's hardly a great choice but I see Thaksin as a far more serious threat to my sons future.

[Thainy Tim]

This is my first comment on the current protests in BKK, and after reading all the posts, visiting the protest sites personally, and talking to a bunch of people I though I would throw in my two cents.

Firstly, I applaud the willingness of the locals to get up and make a stand against corrupt government practices, particularly over the amnesty bill, which perhaps deserved to be shot down. It demonstrates that the Thai populace are increasingly able to communicate their dissatisfaction with one another and mobilise, and hopefully it leads to a greater general awareness of the power structures that shape this country, and will allow for a push towards more representative government.

However, I worry about the direction these protests are moving - ie. the overthrow of a democratically elected government. Sure the Shin government is not great, but they WERE put in power via a fair(ish) democratic election (re. vote buying - ALL elections are based on vote buying - I don't know how many millions of dollars are put into election campaigning in the West, but it's all the same thing)... I feel that the yellow faction, for want of a better term, are co-opting the popular anti-government sentiment for their own means, and their intentions are to put in a non-democratic government and to restore the traditional elite power base. It's no longer about a popular democratic uprising, it is about the restoration of power back into the old hands.

It is my hope that the people of Thailand come to their senses and realise that no matter what colour shirt they're wearing, they are being manipulated by the rich and powerful elite who are in a power struggle over the future control of this country. The people are demonstrating that they will not accept poor governence, but hopefully they are able to to see through the motivations of those powerful figures who are currently stoking the fires and promoting protest.

While I share a very minor part of your views, I have to say that your post in general is very short sighted and ill informed.

Firstly, as you point out that the voting process that put this rabble into power was 'fair(ish)' because the way it is done in the west via campaigning are one and the same (vote buying). Campaigning using funds donated is NOT buying a vote. The people in the west are a bit more savvy to have their vote swayed by a campaign billboard or a party political broadcast. They normally know what they are in for with each party. Their manifesto is what they look at, and they normally do not contain absurd populist policies, because normally the people and especially the press can see straight through. Which will be shot down in a heartbeat.

Also, if you are a bit better informed. It is the swing voter that is normally targeted with a cash payment for their vote. The reason this party strolled into power was with their populist policies such as the rice scam. This scam (currently on the point of collapse) in tantamount to vote buying on a huge scale using the taxpayer to sweeten the pot. No need for an extra 500 baht to come out of Thaksin's wallet when he knows all the rice farmers and villages that depend 100% on rice will vote in a soi dog if you put a Thaksin T shirt on it with an offer of 15K / tonne.

I personally do not know what Thailand will end up with should this government be brought down, and I doubt anyone really knows, but one thing is certain. Even if these fools WERE voted in 100% democratically (which they were not.. if buying the vote is undemocratic...and it is), then one thing is certain. Their presence in power is far more of a threat to democracy because while they hold power democracy does not have a chance as it is being dismantles brick by brick. We have all sat and watched how this government and their corrupt senate officials have acted of late, with their handling of so called democratic procedures and the fact they want to totally remove checks and balances and control the senate with friends and families.

One thing is for certain. Although toppling the elected government by public protest led by opposition may not be the ideal way of doing things, but there is no way that this government can continue this way.

They have proven themselves to be corrupt, they have proven themselves to be not following democratic procedures, and they have proven themselves to not respect the constitution of the country as those charged with protecting it.

So they have to go, and if the only means available are via public protests led by the opposition or a military coup, then the people win my vote any day.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Thainy Tim

[15Peter20]

Now's the time to get out and see the sites or do that bit of shopping you've been meaning to do for ages.

This promises to be a great day for being able to get around Bangkok, as I have it on good authority from some of TV's finest that anti-government demonstrations actually improve the flow of traffic around town!

[brit1984]

what a great idea - overthrow the government - the electorate wont mind - everyone will live happily ever after

[DocN]

Everyone who really believes that this is about "democracy" is a fool!

If you would take "Thaksin" out of the equation...and the name is, what makes them throw tantrums...there would be no one out on the streets!

To really believe, that all of a sudden, Thai-people discovered their mutual interest in politics or democracy, is a joke!

If we are still here next year, there will be another government as "democratic" as the current one, robbing the people blind...and no one will give a hoot.

[Bpuumike]

You are correct in that as far as Suthep and co are concerned this is about getting their noses back in the trough, however, for a lot of people Thaksin is no better and in fact a lot worse as he seems determined to destroy the Thai economy (he will benefit massively if the Baht collapses) Thailand's so called 'democracy' is a joke and Thaksin clearly wants power at any cost. I think you will find the majority of 'educated' westerners like myself would love to see an end to the traditional elites, the problem is Thaksin is a megalomaniac and a very nasty piece of work that will stop at nothing and is in no way an improvement. What the constitution court did last week was appalling as far as any democracy is concerned, however, what PTP are trying to do by forcing through the laughably named 'amnesty' bill is equally appalling.

It is not about corruption.

It is about ousting a democratically elected government and moving back to an undemocratic system as was called for by Suthep yesterday.

Get over your obsessions with Thaksin and see through the smoke and mirrors.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

These people, business people, educators, students etc are holding a peaceful protest against a puppet led, disgrace of a government. They are exercising their constitutional right to do so. As long as they remain peaceful, they should be supported by anyone who values democracy.

You obviously haven't been listening to what Suthep was saying on stage yesterday. Calling for a return to something similar to the pre-1932 system.

Really, that's what it has been about all along, with the smokescreen of removing this government through allegations of corruption and malfeasance.

The right wing PAD were very vocal about returning Thailand to an undemocratic system also, this is just a continuation of their earlier attempts to consolidate power, overthrow an elected government and return Thailand to the dark ages.

It really is quite terrifying that educated Westerners can't see what is happening here.

Personally I cannot understand any supposedly educated westerners supporting Thaksin, can you not see what this man is? Just because I, and I am sure many others, don't like or trust Thaksin it does not mean I support murdering scumbags like Suthep and I am pretty sure it's no different for many Thai's. From my perspective as the father of a 10 year old Thai/farang I fear what Thaksin's Thailand will be like far more than I fear what the Dems would do. It's hardly a great choice but I see Thaksin as a far more serious threat to my sons future.

Lots of action with this huge loan coming up for grabs. They all want a slice!

[frank1965]

Red, yellow or pink, it will be new soup in old bowls ......

[Spare]

It is not about corruption.

It is about ousting a democratically elected government and moving back to an undemocratic system as was called for by Suthep yesterday.

Get over your obsessions with Thaksin and see through the smoke and mirrors.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

These people, business people, educators, students etc are holding a peaceful protest against a puppet led, disgrace of a government. They are exercising their constitutional right to do so. As long as they remain peaceful, they should be supported by anyone who values democracy.

You obviously haven't been listening to what Suthep was saying on stage yesterday. Calling for a return to something similar to the pre-1932 system.

Really, that's what it has been about all along, with the smokescreen of removing this government through allegations of corruption and malfeasance.

The right wing PAD were very vocal about returning Thailand to an undemocratic system also, this is just a continuation of their earlier attempts to consolidate power, overthrow an elected government and return Thailand to the dark ages.

It really is quite terrifying that educated Westerners can't see what is happening here.

Be careful what you write. You could go to jail for 5 years (per message compound).

[gerry1011]

What's the plan if they do get the government to step down?

I don't know about the plan of the Dems. They probably don't have any.

But if they lose the power that they got through democratic elections, the plan of the reds and PT is easy to guess. They will just do the same as the yellows and the Dems.

It's a never ending cycle of protests... Everybody got used to it