Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[7by7]

Wilcopops,

I have answered every question put to me, I have given my reasons for believing both Scotland and the rest of the UK will be better off if the Union remains intact.

I will, of course, be more than happy to answer any question put to me and reiterate those reasons for those whose memories are too dulled to recall them.

You only have to ask.

I will give you one example.

Scotland's biggest market is the rest of the UK.

The pro independence lobby say that there is no reason why this should not continue post independence. The rest of the UK will still want Scottish products, and both countries will be in the EU (Eventually, after Scotland's membership application has been approved by the EU member states).

But it is not as simple as that.

Look at Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

NI is part of the UK, the UK is an EU member and so is the RoI.

Trade should be simple.

But it isn't.

A study by PWC and InterTradeIreland, based on interviews with businesses, business organisations and regulatory bodies, found that companies who buy and sell goods across the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland may experience difficulties due to differences in regulation.

The main issues identified include:
• Access to information and signposting – keeping up-to-date with changing and new legislation was reported as a challenge for businesses, SMEs in particular.
• Differences in VAT rates and VAT regulations across the border.
• Other tax and insurance related issues such as insuring commercial vehicles in two jurisdictions or dealing with two tax authorities when employing people on both sides of the border.
• Additional costs related to currency fluctuations.
• Pricing issues covering a range of different issues such as variations in energy prices, payment practices, debt collection.
• Repetition and duplication of data requirements.
• Recognition of accreditations and qualifications, for example,in the construction industry.

(From page 12 of this document from Better Together)

So, there is one solid reason why Scotland is better of as part of the Union; a solid reason, not empty rhetoric.

It is just a shame that some posters, and one in particular, will not provide the same to support their argument.

Instead he types patronising messages such as post 957 above.

It is ironic that I am being called an 'avid admirer of Google' and similar (the implication being that my arguments have no merit merely because I have used Google to find sources to back them up) by someone whose contributions to this topic consists almost exclusively of copy and paste jobs and You Tube links!

Wilcopops, the question I currently would like an answer to is very simple.

Wigontojapan has posted numerous copy and paste jobs about how awful life in the whole of the UK is these days for a significant proportion of the population. Wont find me arguing with that.

But, he claims that these copy and paste jobs are relevant to the Scottish independence debate as these problems are caused by what he refers to as 'the tyrants in Westminster' (i.e. the dastardly English) and will somehow magically disappear once Scotland becomes independent.

So, all I am asking is this; how will an independent Scotland solve these problems?

The answer from the Yes campaign, and Salmond and the SNP in particular, seems to be "We'll worry about that when the time comes"

That's simply not good enough. The Yes campaign are trying to convince the Scottish people that things will be so much better were Scotland independent, but wont (more likely can't) say how this will be achieved.

They are acting like a dodgy used car salesman who wont even let you look at the car, let alone take it for a test drive, until after you've parted with your cash

If the questions I am asking here are ever answered here, that will have an infinitesimal effect, if any at all, on the referendum result. But they are questions the Scottish people should be asking the Yes campaigners and demanding answers to.

The Scottish people must look very carefully at both sides of the argument; ask campaigners from both sides the awkward questions they don't want to answer.

Then they can make an informed choice rather than one based upon emotion.

If that informed decision is independence, so be it and good luck.

[wilcopops]

I note various tactics being used by those who haven't really got an argument here.One is "the question"

As someone lays out an argument the one without an argument puts forward a "{question' - it is usually an over simple yes/no one with only a tangential connection to the argument and any answer would be spurious, but that person keeps on saying"you haven't answered the question" as if it has the ultimate solution to the issue being discussed. They feel justifies in doing this as they haven't really got a coherent argument themselves so the turn the issue round to banal and naive yes / no questions in the hope it hides the fact they don't have a clue. You see this on Fox News quire a lot "So dog you hate America?" or You just don't like Republicans" as if it has anything to do with the topic in hand.

To the detractors from Scottish independence - firstly ask yourself WHY?

Why are you so against it? Have you suddenly developed a huge love of the Union...or4 Scotland? Do you think that Scots have no right to self determination...or do you simply not like change? There may be a hundred reasons for you not liking the idea, but I can't see many on this thread apart from a blind fear of the future or change.

I am English, but Scots folk are my brothers and sisters, simple as that. We have stood together to create a union that us done us proud.

Aye transam is it and if you look at the numerous posts i have posted the Scots are still saying that we hope Scotland can be a beacon to the world and the English Welsh stand up to the tyranny of the past 35 years old Westminister rule and get back to the values that we all share...Its that simple.....>We would love for the English to wake up and see That it is not about the people .it is all about the money.....The Scots will still be your brothers and sisters after hopefully an independent Scotland.....For god sake there is 800000 living in England as we speak,,,,,Do you want to ship them back to Scotland like the english nationalist nonbury would like to do but would never say public y here...Culturally we share certain similarities,,,,,,politically not....support the scots in their self determination.WAS TOMMY NO SHOUTING LOUD ENOUGH FOR U....

That reads like rollox. Scots folk want the same latest phone as English folk, and just want to be left alone to live THEIR lives, NOT an Adolf talk about crap that cost his countrymen dear..........................

BUT..............

"We have stood together to create a union that us done us proud" -

TA - you knowledge of cars and Scotland have a lot in common but one BIG difference.

When it comes to things automotive you know lots....but understand nothing.

With Scotland, I'm afraid it's just the second part - unless, of course, by "us" you mean the English?

Edited April 25, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Wilcopops,

I have answered every question put to me, I have given my reasons for believing both Scotland and the rest of the UK will be better off if the Union remains intact.

I will, of course, be more than happy to answer any question put to me and reiterate those reasons for those whose memories are too dulled to recall them.

You only have to ask.

I will give you one example.

Scotland's biggest market is the rest of the UK.

The pro independence lobby say that there is no reason why this should not continue post independence. The rest of the UK will still want Scottish products, and both countries will be in the EU (Eventually, after Scotland's membership application has been approved by the EU member states).

But it is not as simple as that.

Look at Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

NI is part of the UK, the UK is an EU member and so is the RoI.

Trade should be simple.

But it isn't.

A study by PWC and InterTradeIreland, based on interviews with businesses, business organisations and regulatory bodies, found that companies who buy and sell goods across the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland may experience difficulties due to differences in regulation.

The main issues identified include:

• Access to information and signposting – keeping up-to-date with changing and new legislation was reported as a challenge for businesses, SMEs in particular.

• Differences in VAT rates and VAT regulations across the border.

• Other tax and insurance related issues such as insuring commercial vehicles in two jurisdictions or dealing with two tax authorities when employing people on both sides of the border.

• Additional costs related to currency fluctuations.

• Pricing issues covering a range of different issues such as variations in energy prices, payment practices, debt collection.

• Repetition and duplication of data requirements.

• Recognition of accreditations and qualifications, for example,in the construction industry.

(From page 12 of this document from Better Together)

So, there is one solid reason why Scotland is better of as part of the Union; a solid reason, not empty rhetoric.

It is just a shame that some posters, and one in particular, will not provide the same to support their argument.

Instead he types patronising messages such as post 957 above.

It is ironic that I am being called an 'avid admirer of Google' and similar (the implication being that my arguments have no merit merely because I have used Google to find sources to back them up) by someone whose contributions to this topic consists almost exclusively of copy and paste jobs and You Tube links!

Wilcopops, the question I currently would like an answer to is very simple.

Wigontojapan has posted numerous copy and paste jobs about how awful life in the whole of the UK is these days for a significant proportion of the population. Wont find me arguing with that.

But, he claims that these copy and paste jobs are relevant to the Scottish independence debate as these problems are caused by what he refers to as 'the tyrants in Westminster' (i.e. the dastardly English) and will somehow magically disappear once Scotland becomes independent.

So, all I am asking is this; how will an independent Scotland solve these problems?

The answer from the Yes campaign, and Salmond and the SNP in particular, seems to be "We'll worry about that when the time comes"

That's simply not good enough. The Yes campaign are trying to convince the Scottish people that things will be so much better were Scotland independent, but wont (more likely can't) say how this will be achieved.

They are acting like a dodgy used car salesman who wont even let you look at the car, let alone take it for a test drive, until after you've parted with your cash

If the questions I am asking here are ever answered here, that will have an infinitesimal effect, if any at all, on the referendum result. But they are questions the Scottish people should be asking the Yes campaigners and demanding answers to.

The Scottish people must look very carefully at both sides of the argument; ask campaigners from both sides the awkward questions they don't want to answer.

Then they can make an informed choice rather than one based upon emotion.

If that informed decision is independence, so be it and good luck.

"Wilcopops, the question I currently would like an answer to is very simple." - guess what read my post above!

Think on.......... If the Scots want independence it's UP TO THTEM - they will make an informed decision and hopefully see past the intimidating propaganda coming out of England and the "no" lobby. ...........and the whole thing is a total disaster, IT"S UP TO THEM.

​the Union is not a permenant thing cast jun stone and Scotland is and always has been a nation, if you think just because you don't like the idea it shouldn't happen then you are on a hiding to nothing, if you think the Scots can't make a decision without the English the you are seriously deluded, iuf you think the Scots are incapable of making such a decision then I advise you to rethink your attitude to other people.

​

Quite frankly your comparison of an independent Scotland with Northern Ireland and the Eire is just so banal it doesn't merit further discussionIf except to say that if the Scottish Nation decides to leave the Union then it is the job of the others in the Union to make sure this happens in the best possible circumstances and support it all the way.

Edited April 25, 2014 by wilcopops

[7by7]

Where have I ever said that I do not believe the result of the referendum is up to anyone other than the Scottish people?

Where have I ever said that the Scottish people are incapable of making that decision?

I'll repeat the last line of my previous post, which you have quoted, for you:

"If that informed decision (of the Scottish people) is independence, so be it and good luck."

If you still don't understand what I mean by that, then I'm sorry, but I don't see how I can make it any simpler.

BTW, the NI/RoI situation is an example of the difficulties of cross international border trade even within the EU. That you consider it banal shows that you simply don't understand these difficulties.

You say

if the Scottish Nation decides to leave the Union then it is the job of the others in the Union to make sure this happens in the best possible circumstances and support it all the way.

Why?

Support, yes. But it's not the job of the rest of the UK to make independence work for Scotland; it's Scotland's job!

You seem to be saying that you want to leave the Union, abandon all the obligations being part of the Union entails; but still want all the advantages that being in the Union currently gives Scotland?

That's certainly Salmond's stance!

Edited April 25, 2014 by 7by7

[wigantojapan]

But it is not as simple as that. by 7 correct and you are not qualified in any sense to even start to think that you know what you are talking about,though give you your due you due try...

by 7.​ will somehow magically disappear once Scotland becomes independent nope sorry old boy never said that in any form what so ever..What is clear is your pre conceived ideas and your reluctance or inability to let go of them the above comment proves that point unless you want to aplogise that you interpreted my posts

how will an independent Scotland solve these problems?Its a big enough job getting people to vote far less such an important issue as independent..After independence a Scottish government has to be voted in by Scottish people...In them who ever it will be will be trusted in their expertise to do the proper thing for Scottish people rather than political party.Again you or i to that matter are not even faintly qualified to discuss in any depth what needs to be sorted out..That is not being ,not informed that is knowing exactly what your capacity is as a person to understand. and to act on them.....and not have such an over flated ego of oneself to basicalyt think they know what they are talking about but actually know next to nothing....In that sense that is why i have posted videos of for one Tommy Sheridan who does answer the questions you specifically want answered..You are free to contact him yourself as he is much better versed to answer not only your questions but others as well,,so please do...It also highlights all the different types of people from all the different parties,,so again your argument and continue l argument about SNP and Salmond just does not bare up

.how will an independent Scotland solve these problems? by 7...Some of these have been answered already as discussed before ,,your acceptance of them is your choice..Again if you want to really bash your point,there are plenty of yes/no web sites where you can if you require a more indepth answer to your question,,,There are qualified people out there

Informed decisions on the question of WMD i would vote yes,,I followed and was active in CND more than any political party or ideology...Again the question of defence and costs and jobs in relation to removal have been answered.That is not an emotional decision it is both..Back in the day i could have gave you any amount of cost involved number of people involved ,job loss job creation you wanted....I took the stance remember to leave Scotland on that one issue alone.

Im sorry but you are being very patronising,,you still insist and that is putting it lightly that Scots are not being informed and are not asking serious questions...They are very much so and that is why the No vote is losing support.....I didnt need an election to know and understand and provide facts if needed be who is running the country and what is behind many of the decisions,,some people now are beginning to find out...

The Scottish people must look very carefully at both sides of the argument;yes and i have provided them.

You seem to have a major problem with me copy and paste .I would suggest you get over that fence and argue about the content if you like.

You are not the judge and jury on how people choose to contribute to this topic

.Wigontojapan has posted numerous copy and paste jobs about how awful life in the whole of the UK is these days for a significant proportion of the population. Wont find me arguing with that

.yes and it very easy to see and understand how powerless the Scottish vote has been in the UK system that has led to the mess of the country and not as the Union says it is better it is going to get worse much worse....Again if you ate not happy with the answers here go to the no or yes pages where you will certainly get a more in depth answer to your questions there,,Do you think i get my informed understanding from this page along with my experience of what it is to be Scots and a life of experience of living in the Uk as well as x colonial Britain/

Alister Darling Is one glaring example of a man who initially had good socialist values and he represented his constituents and not the party....How the power of the party and the system within the party led to the Darling we know today and what he stands for today

People who had supported him.canvassed for him.in all weathers in old church halls..Who invited him into their homes fed him etc You know nothing of these people and their lives and their environment they live in now,,,,,Yes on that alone an emotion if you like people will vote for a yes...The people many of them who i know ,,family members even....so on the man and his politics i am more informed than you can imagine,,but i will leave it at that....I am only here to show people what is happening in Scotland UK at this moment,,its a broad brush of politicians,,political thinkers.people in the street and in the halls....The future for a no vote is Tory and UKIP and what that brings to the table,,but you can bet your bottom dollar there will be even less food on peoples table if there is a no vote...more social unrest ..more people getting rich and on it goes and on it goes

..

[wigantojapan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69fJVEyagBk....another reason to make an informed decision and decide for your self and for the future of your children....How is Scotland going to pay for it all.....plenty links to find the answer

[wigantojapan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69fJVEyagBk....another reason to make an informed decision and decide for your self and for the future of your children....How is Scotland going to pay for it all.....plenty links to find the answer

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply deleted. This thread is about Scotland.

[nontabury]

Wigontojapan

Your distorted view of recent history seems to imply that one of the major problems and causes

Of societies woes, resulted from having a conservative government in Westminster,yet in the 2010 general election, the Scottish conservatives had only slightly less votes than the SNP,

420,000 to 500,000. So an independent Scotland could quite possible vote in the Scottish Conservative party to govern the country, an alternative of course would be for the Scottish electorate to vote in the Labour Party, maybe lead by someone as incompetent as that Scottish chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Bigot Brown, you know, the guy who could not look out of the box, a problem that seems to effect many Scott's as we can see in this thread.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wigantojapan]

Wigontojapan

Your distorted view of recent history seems to imply that one of the major problems and causes

Of societies woes, resulted from having a conservative government in Westminster,yet in the 2010 general election, the Scottish conservatives had only slightly less votes than the SNP,

420,000 to 500,000. So an independent Scotland could quite possible vote in the Scottish Conservative party to govern the country, an alternative of course would be for the Scottish electorate to vote in the Labour Party, maybe lead by someone as incompetent as that Scottish chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Bigot Brown, you know, the guy who could not look out of the box, a problem that seems to effect many Scott's as we can see in this thread.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

well what Scotland will not be getting is UKIP ..

You and people like you who are so out of the box thinkers can vote them in then from that , you might not even qualify for England citizenship if they decide to have DNA testing on how white, how English you are ..

..Too in the box for you son?

like previous stated 30% of supposed White English Anglo Saxons are actually Danish,,,

oh and you might even find the 800000 Scots in England right now are more anglo saxon than yourself....

and that is only the beginning....,

[transam]

Wigontojapan

Your distorted view of recent history seems to imply that one of the major problems and causes

Of societies woes, resulted from having a conservative government in Westminster,yet in the 2010 general election, the Scottish conservatives had only slightly less votes than the SNP,

420,000 to 500,000. So an independent Scotland could quite possible vote in the Scottish Conservative party to govern the country, an alternative of course would be for the Scottish electorate to vote in the Labour Party, maybe lead by someone as incompetent as that Scottish chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Bigot Brown, you know, the guy who could not look out of the box, a problem that seems to effect many Scott's as we can see in this thread.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

well what Scotland will not be getting is UKIP ..

You and people like you who are so out of the box thinkers can vote them in then from that , you might not even qualify for England citizenship if they decide to have DNA testing on how white, how English you are ..

..Too in the box for you son?

like previous stated 30% of supposed White English Anglo Saxons are actually Danish,,,

oh and you might even find the 800000 Scots in England right now are more anglo saxon than yourself....

and that is only the beginning....,

Interesting, perhaps as we seem to all come from the same routes even more reason to stick together...........

[wigantojapan]

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/20457 help me boab weeshhh laddie

[wigantojapan]

Wigontojapan

Your distorted view of recent history seems to imply that one of the major problems and causes

Of societies woes, resulted from having a conservative government in Westminster,yet in the 2010 general election, the Scottish conservatives had only slightly less votes than the SNP,

420,000 to 500,000. So an independent Scotland could quite possible vote in the Scottish Conservative party to govern the country, an alternative of course would be for the Scottish electorate to vote in the Labour Party, maybe lead by someone as incompetent as that Scottish chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Bigot Brown, you know, the guy who could not look out of the box, a problem that seems to effect many Scott's as we can see in this thread.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

well what Scotland will not be getting is UKIP ..

You and people like you who are so out of the box thinkers can vote them in then from that , you might not even qualify for England citizenship if they decide to have DNA testing on how white, how English you are ..

..Too in the box for you son?

like previous stated 30% of supposed White English Anglo Saxons are actually Danish,,,

oh and you might even find the 800000 Scots in England right now are more anglo saxon than yourself....

and that is only the beginning....,

Interesting, perhaps as we seem to all come from the same routes even more reason to stick together...........

wow thats right out the box thinking stay the same well it wont be the same cause the Uk government is coming after you,for being a bad wee boy,,,,,,opps is cornwall no shouting for independence now or something aye the walls come crumbling downhttps://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCwQyCkwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DElhC1jFz7-c%26feature%3Dkp&ei=az5bU7yjB8PNrQeooYDYBw&usg=AFQjCNEjWpBNxS8bbo9lwcWbPDCtZRw8PA&sig2=sXxPeB2424AazCoPVKNXNg&bvm=bv.65397613,d.bmk

[7by7]

But it is not as simple as that. by 7 correct and you are not qualified in any sense to even start to think that you know what you are talking about,though give you your due you due try...

As you believe this flame, there is no point in my trying to get through your Andy Stewart, White Heather Club impressions and have a proper discussion with you.

[wigantojapan]

But it is not as simple as that. by 7 correct and you are not qualified in any sense to even start to think that you know what you are talking about,though give you your due you due try...

As you believe this flame, there is no point in my trying to get through your Andy Stewart, White Heather Club impressions and have a proper discussion with you.

it again highlights the level of debate that you would like to have by that slanderous tone and attempt at humor that you post....You are finally getting it though.I knew that after the first contact i had with you,,,no time in wasting your time here there are lots of unionists propaganda out there that can make you feel that Britain s still great .

[wigantojapan]

http://m.stv.tv/news/scotland/272925-cbi-reverse-no-stance-on-independence-referendum-after-legal-advice/ann now the head honcho said he knew nothing about it as he was away on holiday and blamed an unnamed junior AYE RIGHT as we say

[wigantojapan]

http://www.commentisntfree.com/missing-the-point/ time for eal politics in Scotland no them masquerading as politicians

[wigantojapan]

[wigantojapan]

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/04/24/the-nationhood-bypass/ THATS ALL FOR ME FOLKS ENJOY YOUR WEEKEND UNLESS your a unionists of course and you are miserable old git slainte

[transam]

And very sorry you ice cream sales folk for our "not sure" weather outlook advertisement..............

[wilcopops]

It amazes me that some posters are taking an extremely negative stance on something that is hardly their business....unless as an Enfglish colonial they want to hold on to something they consider to be "their possession".

I'm also perplexed that people continue to look on the Union as a "blessing" for both sides. Firstly they might look at how thew Union cam about and also take into account subsequent (and previous - inc. Wallace et al) challenges to the Union.

Burns was threatened with charges of sedition...

""Alas, I have often said to myself what are the boasted advantages which my country reaps from a certain Union that counterbalance the annihilation of her Independence, and even her name !"

or on how the Union came about...check out this poem.

"But English gold has been our bane,

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!"

[wigantojapan]

life is about learning is it not ,life is always changing even as i type this i am not the same person i was when i started,,,yet the no side as a whole say the same old tired lines that they have always said ......People can see with their own eyes the devastation that has been wrecked across the whole of the UK by the politics of the past 35 years but still they hold onto this idea of a great Britain and how important they are on the world stage etc etc.....and off course we all know what the counter argument of that will be haha.

.Now its Andy Stewart,, my god nae wan has even mentioned James Bond yet shaaaaaaaaaaaayun the milkman..

.

.Scotland might still no gets its independence as the antipathy of politicians is till there and people cannot see the bigger picture, and even the whole mass hysteria breaking out that social unrest and division is all of a sudden the blame of Alex salmond ..yet in the same breath they spout out hate and contempt for brown Blair and all Scots..

how quickly they have spun there webs of anti Scottish.anti English threads ,,, sacrificing the masses again as they laugh and sip martinis on some far away sun drenched island

.Yes a conservative party could get voted in Scotland again,,not all conservatives are the like the ones that have caused the social unrest along with labour of the past 35 years...

.Yes the people on the demonstration lines of social .environmental unjustice, know and have exposed,those hidden forces that have been pulling the string of the puppets in their plastic houses and plastic minds and yet the no side like to say sheep.sheep.. and have no idea how they have been manipulated and destroyed of their human dignity. and values with their acceptance of the two bob bit

.yes there is also a sheep mentality within the yes vote,,who are frightened to change,,,who do see the forces of destruction could arrive at their door step,,who take solace that we are an island so we can hold them back ,,but have been frightened to vote as the island has become smaller and more dangerous,,thanks again to the spin doctors,,so its better not to upset the apple cart,,no matter how rotten the cart is,,

[wigantojapan]

http://bit.ly/1imbWY7

Scottish referendum: why Chomsky's yes is more interesting than Bowie's no

Noam Chomsky's intervention in the Scottish referendum debate shows there's more to independence than nationalism

[7by7]

Wigantojapan, your continual attempts to adopt a faux Scottish accent in your posts (as opposed to your actual Lancashire one?) are amusing.

As are your increasingly desperate attempts at stirring up anti English racism.

But not as amusing as

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01mtpwx

Still; keep it up. One day you may even make it to a show at the end of Wigan Pier.

Edited April 26, 2014 by 7by7

[wigantojapan]

Wigantojapan, your continual attempts to adopt a faux Scottish accent in your posts (as opposed to your actual Lancashire one?) are amusing.

As are your increasingly desperate attempts at stirring up anti English racism.

But not as amusing as

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01mtpwx

Still; keep it up. One day you may even make it to a show at the end of Wigan Pier.

young man you are really paranoid if you interpret any of my posts of being anti english

l care to share any of them

..and as a lancashire lad born and bread i take it in your eyes,,so that is English now i am Anti english..

..what did my mother make me eat coal when i was a bairn

Aye as funny as the fake studio laughs ha ha ha,

,interesting that you acuse me of being anti english a well documented tactic by unionists on anyone who does not like their views and in your next sentence you send a stereo type English version of Scotland

and you still want a deep debate

good to see at least you do attempt to watch some informative shows,,this was not one of their better episodes,,but typical of the bbc in stereo typing

good to see paul merton cringing.

[wigantojapan]

7 by 7 you posted earlier that you always answer the questions asked of you so i will ask you one in reference to your quote

As are your increasingly desperate attempts at stirring up anti English racism.

Show me any post i have posted that is Anti English?

[StreetCowboy]

Wigantojapan, your continual attempts to adopt a faux Scottish accent in your posts (as opposed to your actual Lancashire one?) are amusing.

As are your increasingly desperate attempts at stirring up anti English racism.

But not as amusing as

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01mtpwx

Still; keep it up. One day you may even make it to a show at the end of Wigan Pier.

Steddy on theur, yoong seven lad. Theur's nowt wrong wi' an affected accent in mai beuk.

Yerdedonthair, bytheway, Cowboy. Thon ruby thread'd be even bigger pish wi'oot thon Ray French

[StreetCowboy]

life is about learning is it not ,life is always changing even as i type this i am not the same person i was when i started,,,yet the no side as a whole say the same old tired lines that they have always said ......People can see with their own eyes the devastation that has been wrecked across the whole of the UK by the politics of the past 35 years but still they hold onto this idea of a great Britain and how important they are on the world stage etc etc.....and off course we all know what the counter argument of that will be haha.

.Now its Andy Stewart,, my god nae wan has even mentioned James Bond yet shaaaaaaaaaaaayun the milkman..

.

.Scotland might still no gets its independence as the antipathy of politicians is till there and people cannot see the bigger picture, and even the whole mass hysteria breaking out that social unrest and division is all of a sudden the blame of Alex salmond ..yet in the same breath they spout out hate and contempt for brown Blair and all Scots..

how quickly they have spun there webs of anti Scottish.anti English threads ,,, sacrificing the masses again as they laugh and sip martinis on some far away sun drenched island

.Yes a conservative party could get voted in Scotland again,,not all conservatives are the like the ones that have caused the social unrest along with labour of the past 35 years...

.Yes the people on the demonstration lines of social .environmental unjustice, know and have exposed,those hidden forces that have been pulling the string of the puppets in their plastic houses and plastic minds and yet the no side like to say sheep.sheep.. and have no idea how they have been manipulated and destroyed of their human dignity. and values with their acceptance of the two bob bit

.yes there is also a sheep mentality within the yes vote,,who are frightened to change,,,who do see the forces of destruction could arrive at their door step,,who take solace that we are an island so we can hold them back ,,but have been frightened to vote as the island has become smaller and more dangerous,,thanks again to the spin doctors,,so its better not to upset the apple cart,,no matter how rotten the cart is,,

So just to understand - the crux of your argument is that the British political parties are corrupt to a man, including their Scottish members. Do you not think that when they can no longer live the high life in London, they'll come back and do their best to do the same in Holyrood? I have no doubt that Scottish politicians in Holyrood have the talent, ambition and ability to match their English counterparts in venality and scurrilous perversion of their duties. Or do you think that in some way Scottish politicians are less capable of misleading the electorate than their colleagues south of the border?

SC

[nontabury]

Wigantojapan, your continual attempts to adopt a faux Scottish accent in your posts (as opposed to your actual Lancashire one?) are amusing.

As are your increasingly desperate attempts at stirring up anti English racism.

But not as amusing as

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01mtpwx

Still; keep it up. One day you may even make it to a show at the end of Wigan Pier.

So this LADDIE is in fact English, a bit like Rod Stewart. Born in Lancashire to a English mother, presumably does not live in Scotland, probably never has except for fleeting visits, yet his whole tone throughout this thread is anti English. Amazing.

To bring this into a Thai context, I live in Thailand with my Thai wife and our two sons. Now I know that there are many things wrong with Thailand, yet I am still bringing them up to be Thai's

Hoping in the future they can contribute in a small way to improving Thai ethics. I am certainly not going to bring them up to be anti British.

Just shows how two father can try to mould their children in different ways.

P.s one thing about the Laddie that is Scottish, seemingly the Haggis originated in Lancashire.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wigantojapan]

life is about learning is it not ,life is always changing even as i type this i am not the same person i was when i started,,,yet the no side as a whole say the same old tired lines that they have always said ......People can see with their own eyes the devastation that has been wrecked across the whole of the UK by the politics of the past 35 years but still they hold onto this idea of a great Britain and how important they are on the world stage etc etc.....and off course we all know what the counter argument of that will be haha.

.Now its Andy Stewart,, my god nae wan has even mentioned James Bond yet shaaaaaaaaaaaayun the milkman..

.

.Scotland might still no gets its independence as the antipathy of politicians is till there and people cannot see the bigger picture, and even the whole mass hysteria breaking out that social unrest and division is all of a sudden the blame of Alex salmond ..yet in the same breath they spout out hate and contempt for brown Blair and all Scots..

how quickly they have spun there webs of anti Scottish.anti English threads ,,, sacrificing the masses again as they laugh and sip martinis on some far away sun drenched island

.Yes a conservative party could get voted in Scotland again,,not all conservatives are the like the ones that have caused the social unrest along with labour of the past 35 years...

.Yes the people on the demonstration lines of social .environmental unjustice, know and have exposed,those hidden forces that have been pulling the string of the puppets in their plastic houses and plastic minds and yet the no side like to say sheep.sheep.. and have no idea how they have been manipulated and destroyed of their human dignity. and values with their acceptance of the two bob bit

.yes there is also a sheep mentality within the yes vote,,who are frightened to change,,,who do see the forces of destruction could arrive at their door step,,who take solace that we are an island so we can hold them back ,,but have been frightened to vote as the island has become smaller and more dangerous,,thanks again to the spin doctors,,so its better not to upset the apple cart,,no matter how rotten the cart is,,

So just to understand - the crux of your argument is that the British political parties are corrupt to a man, including their Scottish members. Do you not think that when they can no longer live the high life in London, they'll come back and do their best to do the same in Holyrood? I have no doubt that Scottish politicians in Holyrood have the talent, ambition and ability to match their English counterparts in venality and scurrilous perversion of their duties. Or do you think that in some way Scottish politicians are less capable of misleading the electorate than their colleagues south of the border?

SC

not to a man or to a women but yes in general a high percentage of them are and th party politics takes over from their real representation of their

constituents...Of course we are not blind to the fact that the majority of them will be sitting in a new Scottish parliament,,,,but we can vote them out,,whereas we

cannot in the current set up....you know that,,i know...its a point of looking after Scottish interest wheras in the past 100 years Scotland has only had a

government twice who they voted for......It was the Scots who brought down thatcher with their peoples power on the poll tax and it will be the scots who will bring

any political party to roost in an independent Scotland......No one has ever even thought it is going to be an easy journey ..Independence is only the beginning