Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[nontabury]

Thanks for the laugh, "Scotland is well known for financial astuteness" Pity it didn't apply to the last two Chancellors of the Exchequer in the Labour lead government. Then of course we could continue on discussing the Bank of Scotland who were Taken Over by the Halifax Building Society in 2001, you will recall that Alex Salmonds then like a little child put pressure on the Scottish lead Labour government to insist that the headquarters of the new HBOS would be situated in Edinburgh, leading again to an example of Scottish financial astuteness for which the whole of the UK population is still paying, in addition to the loss of many jobs in Halifax, an area already suffering high unemployment to a more prosperous area. Hopefully these jobs will be returned to the rest of the UK in 2016 along with tens of thousands of others.

Then of course we have the Royal Bank of Scotland who after merging with the larger English Natwest bank strangely saw it's headquarters moved to Edinburgh, again at the cost of many jobs in the rest of the UK. This lead to more astute Scottish management, which in turn resulted in the British Government ( the Tax payer) having to take a very large stake in the bank,facilitated with the agreement of the then Scottish Chancellor of the Exchequer.

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-----------------------------------

RBoS at the time of their demise was lead by Lawrence Fish, chairman, an American national.

and Bank of Scotland lead by Andy Hornby an English businessman,

Andy Hornsby was but one member of the board, who were the others, I'll start you off. Chairman of the board Lord Stevenson, born and raised in Edinburgh as were the majority of the others.

No mention by you of the thousands of jobs moved from a high unemployment area in England to a prosperous area in Scotland. Can you imagine the uproar if it had been the other way round. And still this pandering continues, just ask the shipyard workers in Portsmouth.

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[7by7]

Wigantojapan.

All you points about Scottish residents' access to NHS services in the rest of the UK are perfectly valid; while Scotland remains part of the UK.

If Scotland leaves the UK then there is no reason why Scottish residents should be treated in the UK any differently to all other non UK residents.

Not just when it comes to NHS treatment, but in everything else as well.

If you want independence; have it.

But it should be full independence, without retaining the benefits of being part of the UK in areas which suit you.

[Scott]

Posts which are an obvious advertisement and replies have been removed. Continue to post such material and you will receive a formal warning.

[7by7]

Seems we are getting back to the oil thing again...........

Sorry, a flaw of mine, but when I see deliberate distortions of the truth that are designed to damage the cause of independence , I feel compelled to retort.

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Yet you seem happy to accept distortions of the truth which are designed to support the cause of independence.

Of which there have been many examples here.

Double standards?

i do believe that the people who actually live,or have lived in Scotland have a better grasp of the Truth as you say it than yourself,,who at best is a passing tourist.

.A Scottish Unionist is a very different breed to an English ,Welsh or Irish Unionist for that matter,,though they are all in bed together as we speak.

After all England will be a much better together region without Scotland,,why are you so frightened,,,,you can always use your better together to create inequality in the North of the region named England,,,oops you are already doing that...and i thought it was a UK,,oh well you can always use your better together to create inequality in Wales...though maybe that is a part of England i am not sure....Truth from the papers..the newspapers or the politicians and you want an intelligent debate?....And i thought Scotland had modeled its Utopian idea on sussex,, must be true then,,,no food banks down there then,,,no welfare benefits cheats oh no,,, no tax evasion corporate leaders,,,well steady on old chap no need to be flippant,,we are better together at somethings are we,,,,,,smokescreen action

<deleted>?

Take more water with it, old chap.

[wigantojapan]

Seems we are getting back to the oil thing again...........

Sorry, a flaw of mine, but when I see deliberate distortions of the truth that are designed to damage the cause of independence , I feel compelled to retort.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yet you seem happy to accept distortions of the truth which are designed to support the cause of independence.

Of which there have been many examples here.

Double standards?

The truth by the better together which 7 by 7 accepts as the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth as in the first part of this link

Again the hospital itself said that the advert was not true,,but still 7 by 7 wants us to believe that there is a UK NHS. Remember the advert was aimed at cancer patients and children better together aye righthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JijOqL8jVds

[7by7]

jpinx,

The RoI did indeed tie the Punt to Sterling for many years; until they joined the ERM and the UK didn't.

But that is not the same as a formal currency union; even though both currencies were accepted, unofficially, by most shops either side of the border.

I am aware that the SNP is not the whole of the Yes campaign. But they are the major player.

It was they who produced the 'manifesto' for the Yes campaign.

It was they who produced the estimates of the cost of independence; both sets, the one they published and the one they tried to keep secret.

If Scotland does become independent then it will, of course, be up to the Scottish voters, when the SNP call an election, to decide who will form their next government; I have never denied that.

On the subjects of the SNP and a currency union:

‘UK should not vote on currency union’ - Salmond

IN the event of Scottish independence, people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland should not be given a formal say on whether Scotland enters a currency union with them, according to First Minister Alex Salmond.

Seems that Salmond's belief in the right of the people to decide only applies to Scottish people; not the rest of us!

[wigantojapan]

Thanks for the laugh, "Scotland is well known for financial astuteness" Pity it didn't apply to the last two Chancellors of the Exchequer in the Labour lead government. Then of course we could continue on discussing the Bank of Scotland who were Taken Over by the Halifax Building Society in 2001, you will recall that Alex Salmonds then like a little child put pressure on the Scottish lead Labour government to insist that the headquarters of the new HBOS would be situated in Edinburgh, leading again to an example of Scottish financial astuteness for which the whole of the UK population is still paying, in addition to the loss of many jobs in Halifax, an area already suffering high unemployment to a more prosperous area. Hopefully these jobs will be returned to the rest of the UK in 2016 along with tens of thousands of others.

Then of course we have the Royal Bank of Scotland who after merging with the larger English Natwest bank strangely saw it's headquarters moved to Edinburgh, again at the cost of many jobs in the rest of the UK. This lead to more astute Scottish management, which in turn resulted in the British Government ( the Tax payer) having to take a very large stake in the bank,facilitated with the agreement of the then Scottish Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

-----------------------------------

RBoS at the time of their demise was lead by Lawrence Fish, chairman, an American national.

and Bank of Scotland lead by Andy Hornby an English businessman,

Andy Hornsby was but one member of the board, who were the others, I'll start you off. Chairman of the board Lord Stevenson, born and raised in Edinburgh as were the majority of the others.

No mention by you of the thousands of jobs moved from a high unemployment area in England to a prosperous area in Scotland. Can you imagine the uproar if it had been the other way round. And still this pandering continues, just ask the shipyard workers in Portsmouth.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

keep on your Scot bashing,,you have been doing it for over 50 years,,,,Ask them what they thought about independence you wouldnt get a short answer to that....After all sunny boy we all still are Uk citizens arent we not...Well 29000 jobs lost on the clyde since 79 is a good place to start How many jobs lost in portsmouth

[wigantojapan]

jpinx,

The RoI did indeed tie the Punt to Sterling for many years; until they joined the ERM and the UK didn't.

But that is not the same as a formal currency union; even though both currencies were accepted, unofficially, by most shops either side of the border.

I am aware that the SNP is not the whole of the Yes campaign. But they are the major player.

It was they who produced the 'manifesto' for the Yes campaign.

It was they who produced the estimates of the cost of independence; both sets, the one they published and the one they tried to keep secret.

If Scotland does become independent then it will, of course, be up to the Scottish voters, when the SNP call an election, to decide who will form their next government; I have never denied that.

On the subjects of the SNP and a currency union:

‘UK should not vote on currency union’ - Salmond

IN the event of Scottish independence, people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland should not be given a formal say on whether Scotland enters a currency union with them, according to First Minister Alex Salmond.

Seems that Salmond's belief in the right of the people to decide only applies to Scottish people; not the rest of us!

The major player of the yes campaign are the people who can vote ,,You keep on wanting to draw attention to Salmond who as a politician could wipe the floor with anyone,,but like everyone on the yes side knows it is not about salmond intelligent debate is that your marker?

[7by7]

Seems we are getting back to the oil thing again...........

Sorry, a flaw of mine, but when I see deliberate distortions of the truth that are designed to damage the cause of independence , I feel compelled to retort.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yet you seem happy to accept distortions of the truth which are designed to support the cause of independence.

Of which there have been many examples here.

Double standards?

The truth by the better together which 7 by 7 accepts as the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth as in the first part of this link

Again the hospital itself said that the advert was not true,,but still 7 by 7 wants us to believe that there is a UK NHS. Remember the advert was aimed at cancer patients and children better together aye righthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JijOqL8jVds

I have twice provided you with a link to an independent, authoritative source, the CAB, which goes into great detail about exactly what NHS treatment non UK residents are and are not entitled to.

You seem to be ignoring that.

I have asked you the following many times, and each time you have ignored the question.

I will ask you one more time.

Why should residents of an independent Scotland be treated any differently to all other non UK residents, including non resident British citizens, when it comes to NHS treatment in the UK?

You can make all the silly comments you wish; you can state the current position as often as you like.

But that is the fundamental question.

Unless you answer it, all your comments on the subject are worthless hot air and so will be ignored by me.

[7by7]

jpinx,

The RoI did indeed tie the Punt to Sterling for many years; until they joined the ERM and the UK didn't.

But that is not the same as a formal currency union; even though both currencies were accepted, unofficially, by most shops either side of the border.

I am aware that the SNP is not the whole of the Yes campaign. But they are the major player.

It was they who produced the 'manifesto' for the Yes campaign.

It was they who produced the estimates of the cost of independence; both sets, the one they published and the one they tried to keep secret.

If Scotland does become independent then it will, of course, be up to the Scottish voters, when the SNP call an election, to decide who will form their next government; I have never denied that.

On the subjects of the SNP and a currency union:

‘UK should not vote on currency union’ - Salmond

IN the event of Scottish independence, people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland should not be given a formal say on whether Scotland enters a currency union with them, according to First Minister Alex Salmond.

Seems that Salmond's belief in the right of the people to decide only applies to Scottish people; not the rest of us!

The major player of the yes campaign are the people who can vote ,,You keep on wanting to draw attention to Salmond who as a politician could wipe the floor with anyone,,but like everyone on the yes side knows it is not about salmond intelligent debate is that your marker?

No, the major players, in fact only players, in the actual decision are the people who can vote.

Salmond and the SNP are the major players in the campaign attempting to persuade those people to vote Yes.

As for Salmond's ability to wipe the floor; give him a bucket and a mop and after a bit of practice he could probably do ok.

[wigantojapan]

Wigantojapan.

All you points about Scottish residents' access to NHS services in the rest of the UK are perfectly valid; while Scotland remains part of the UK.

If Scotland leaves the UK then there is no reason why Scottish residents should be treated in the UK any differently to all other non UK residents.

Not just when it comes to NHS treatment, but in everything else as well.

If you want independence; have it.

But it should be full independence, without retaining the benefits of being part of the UK in areas which suit you.

Nothing to do with Scotland being a part of UK now.

They are independent NHS how will that change either way it wont.

no Uk taxes NOW pay for Scottish patients healthcare in England

NONE not 1 penny

Scotland NHS pays,, NOT UK taxes......

What will happen in the event of a NO VOTE is that Westminister will give 4 billion austerity pounds to Scotland as a thank you for being better together,,,That could impact on NHS Scotland.

NHS England could also offer 100% free care in England to English residents,,it chooses not to.

clear enough

[7by7]

No; because it does not answer the basic question.

Non UK residents have very limited access to NHS care in the UK.

Residents of an independent Scotland will not be UK residents.

You really do want independence in areas that suit you, but still retain all the rights and benefits of being part of the UK as well!

[wigantojapan]

jpinx,

The RoI did indeed tie the Punt to Sterling for many years; until they joined the ERM and the UK didn't.

But that is not the same as a formal currency union; even though both currencies were accepted, unofficially, by most shops either side of the border.

I am aware that the SNP is not the whole of the Yes campaign. But they are the major player.

It was they who produced the 'manifesto' for the Yes campaign.

It was they who produced the estimates of the cost of independence; both sets, the one they published and the one they tried to keep secret.

If Scotland does become independent then it will, of course, be up to the Scottish voters, when the SNP call an election, to decide who will form their next government; I have never denied that.

On the subjects of the SNP and a currency union:

‘UK should not vote on currency union’ - Salmond

IN the event of Scottish independence, people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland should not be given a formal say on whether Scotland enters a currency union with them, according to First Minister Alex Salmond.

Seems that Salmond's belief in the right of the people to decide only applies to Scottish people; not the rest of us!

The major player of the yes campaign are the people who can vote ,,You keep on wanting to draw attention to Salmond who as a politician could wipe the floor with anyone,,but like everyone on the yes side knows it is not about salmond intelligent debate is that your marker?

No, the major players, in fact only players, in the actual decision are the people who can vote.

Salmond and the SNP are the major players in the campaign attempting to persuade those people to vote Yes.

As for Salmond's ability to wipe the floor; give him a bucket and a mop and after a bit of practice he could probably do ok.

hers is a good one hour for you while salmond cleans the floor..Im sure he is humble enough to do thathttp://youtu.be/Kiatf_Nt3nI

[RuamRudy]

No; because it does not answer the basic question.

Non UK residents have very limited access to NHS care in the UK.

Residents of an independent Scotland will not be UK residents.

You really do want independence in areas that suit you, but still retain all the rights and benefits of being part of the UK as well!

How about this: there is a clear moral reason for a different approach.

The UK wide NHS was developed as it currently is, with strategically placed centres of excellence, using UK taxes. Of course it makes sense to cluster expertise in a handful of areas, usually densely populated, rather than offer specialised services throughout the country.

Scotland uses those like every other region, and pays for them like every other user. But the decision to place them in, say, London rather than Aberdeen is simply an accident of history, and the moral case for not denying access to the very people who's taxes helped develop those facilities is clear.

It is disappointing that this lie is still being repeated because, unlike the other lies that the No campaign push repeatedly, this one causes wholly unnecessary concern for the most vulnerable people.

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[wigantojapan]

No; because it does not answer the basic question.

Non UK residents have very limited access to NHS care in the UK.

Residents of an independent Scotland will not be UK residents.

You really do want independence in areas that suit you, but still retain all the rights and benefits of being part of the UK as well!

Scottish residents have limited access to NHS ENGLAND NOW

That will not change after a yes or no vote.

A Scottish resident NOW pays for his/her treatment in NHS England or even as i said before within different Health Boards with in Scotland

Scotland NHS is treated as a NON NHS ENGLAND status and has that same status as a non UK resident regarding health care

Try taking off your xenophobic mask .

The rights and benefits you go on about are simply a financial agreement,,nothing to do with health and taking care of the patient,,but first and foremost, get as much money as you can from the people who most need the help of society the sick

Thats what you are happy with.

Scotland as a whole are not

[7by7]

RuamRudy,

The history of the NHS is, indeed, complicated and there are good demographic reasons for major specialist hospitals being located where they are.

But you seem to be saying that there are no such anywhere in Scotland!

This is just one area which voters have to consider; leave the UK and you leave the UK NHS.

Not a lie; a real probability unless the government of an independent Scotland can persuade the UK government to make Scottish residents exempt from the regulations which govern all other non UK residents; including non resident British citizens.

In other words, another area where the Yes campaign want to be independent yet retain all the rights and benefits of being part of the UK.

Scottish voters need to know the downside of leaving the UK as well as the benefits.

That you, wigantojapan and others don't want the voters to know this downside and so label all mention of it as 'Project Fear, scaremongering and bullying' only shows how worried you are that the Scottish people as a whole know their future is better within the UK and will vote accordingly.

Wigantojapan; Scottish residents do not have the same status as non UK residents, i.e. limited access to NHS care in the rest of the UK; they have the same rights as all other UK residents do in all parts of the UK.

You really should read that CAB link.

Then, once you know the actual rules, maybe, instead of yet again resorting to pathetic insults, you can answer the question.

Edited June 5, 2014 by 7by7

[jpinx]

All the talk about health care is another red-herring. It is totally obvious that if Scotland goes independent then a Scot will have to pay for their health-care if they travel to England in the same way as a person from France or RoI. Travel insurance will usually suffice in the same way as it does now.

I can imagine an open border existing - in the same way as it does between UK and RoI. The only consideration there is if Scotland joins the Schengen group and England does not, but that's some time away -- there'll be a new set of politicians and a new EU boss by then

Edited June 5, 2014 by jpinx

[wigantojapan]

RuamRudy,

The history of the NHS is, indeed, complicated and there are good demographic reasons for major specialist hospitals being located where they are.

But you seem to be saying that there are no such anywhere in Scotland!

This is just one area which voters have to consider; leave the UK and you leave the UK NHS.

Not a lie; a real probability unless the government of an independent Scotland can persuade the UK government to make Scottish residents exempt from the regulations which govern all other non UK residents; including non resident British citizens.

In other words, another area where the Yes campaign want to be independent yet retain all the rights and benefits of being part of the UK.

Scottish voters need to know the downside of leaving the UK as well as the benefits.

That you, wigantojapan and others don't want the voters to know this downside and so label all mention of it as 'Project Fear, scaremongering and bullying' only shows how worried you are that the Scottish people as a whole know their future is better within the UK and will vote accordingly.

Wigantojapan; Scottish residents do not have the same status as non UK residents, i.e. limited access to NHS care in the rest of the UK; they have the same rights as all other UK residents do in all parts of the UK.

You really should read that CAB link.

Then, once you know the actual rules, maybe, instead of yet again resorting to pathetic insults, you can answer the question.

There are agreements in place at this moment regarding the different independent NHS services

Again there is no UK NHS no matter if all UK citizens have access to them

Scottish residents ONLY have access to non Scottish NHS services through a pre negotiated between the health bodies

in this way it is the same as being a non Uk resident...The Scot is paid for by the NHS SCOTLAND,,,...You want to beat on that non factual attack on the weak.

the great ormond spokesperson as earlier stated also confirmed what i have said,,so you might read some rule but you certainly do not understand it

Now possibly with the way the NHS ENGLAND is going negotiations could take place in a new independent Scotland..if England wants to screw more money out of Scotland in the name of fairness ,,that will get negotiated if need be,,but in no way is it like you keep on beating on about Scotland wanting to take something that doesn't belong .or they are entitled to do so..Again you have only looked up a google link and have no intimate knowledge of the subject matter

[wigantojapan]

All the talk about health care is another red-herring. It is totally obvious that if Scotland goes independent then a Scot will have to pay for their health-care if they travel to England in the same way as a person from France or RoI. Travel insurance will usually suffice in the same way as it does now.

They already do pay.See the wee slip you get when you go for any form pf service,,that wee slip goes back for NHS Scotland to pay

[jpinx]

All the talk about health care is another red-herring. It is totally obvious that if Scotland goes independent then a Scot will have to pay for their health-care if they travel to England in the same way as a person from France or RoI. Travel insurance will usually suffice in the same way as it does now.

They already do pay.See the wee slip you get when you go for any form pf service,,that wee slip goes back for NHS Scotland to pay

I seem to remember a similar system existed when I lived in Spain........

[nontabury]

All the talk about health care is another red-herring. It is totally obvious that if Scotland goes independent then a Scot will have to pay for their health-care if they travel to England in the same way as a person from France or RoI. Travel insurance will usually suffice in the same way as it does now.

I can imagine an open border existing - in the same way as it does between UK and RoI. The only consideration there is if Scotland joins the Schengen group and England does not, but that's some time away -- there'll be a new set of politicians and a new EU boss by then

I believe you are correct, now can you please explain these facts to the Lancashire laddie, he seems to be having a problem grasping these points.

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[jpinx]

Lancashire ??? Are they getting restless again ?

[wigantojapan]

Here you go Again for all you googlers you will tell us that Leith and Auld Rekkie are the same..Cannae even get the basics aboot a part o Scotland and its pychie

[wigantojapan]

All the talk about health care is another red-herring. It is totally obvious that if Scotland goes independent then a Scot will have to pay for their health-care if they travel to England in the same way as a person from France or RoI. Travel insurance will usually suffice in the same way as it does now.

I can imagine an open border existing - in the same way as it does between UK and RoI. The only consideration there is if Scotland joins the Schengen group and England does not, but that's some time away -- there'll be a new set of politicians and a new EU boss by then

I believe you are correct, now can you please explain these facts to the Lancashire laddie, he seems to be having a problem grasping these points.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

They already do pay.See the wee slip you get when you go for any form of service,,that wee slip goes back for NHS Scotland to pay.You seem to be having major problems grasping where i am from even though i have gave clear indications....A previous video will give you a clue ..aye the half way hoose for people in the know laddie...See if your going to be anti anything,,know your enemy and the environment they work live and play in,,,

[transam]

Lancashire ??? Are they getting restless again ?

NOOOOOOOOOO, not the War of the Roses again, PLEASE>>>>>>>>>>>>

[wigantojapan]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8428-fury-after-unelected-peers-strip-power-from-scotland.

Fury after unelected peers strip power from Scotland...Go on Unionists please tell us,,inform us even ,where the untruths are in this article

[tw25rw]

I think that when it comes to put pen to paper reality will kick in.

Many in Scotland do not like the English and their control, but there is the possibility that they hate change even more.

And considering how many people in England are of Scottisg descent, it all seems rather pointless.

[wigantojapan]

http://www.arcofprosperity.org/darling-i-am-not-an-ethnic-nationalist/"

Alistair Darling should feel ashamed of himself. There are plenty of neo-fascist movements appearing all over Europe at moment that he could spend his time fighting. Ethnic nationalism is a horrible ideology, and applying that term to an anti-xenophobic party that welcomes foreigners like me with open arms is insulting, demeaning, harmful and evil. We are not amused."

[nontabury]

http://www.arcofprosperity.org/darling-i-am-not-an-ethnic-nationalist/"

Alistair Darling should feel ashamed of himself. There are plenty of neo-fascist movements appearing all over Europe at moment that he could spend his time fighting. Ethnic nationalism is a horrible ideology, and applying that term to an anti-xenophobic party that welcomes foreigners like me with open arms is insulting, demeaning, harmful and evil. We are not amused."

You're making me very confused, Lancashire Lad, at one time you lead us to believe that you where English, then you categorically stated you were born and bred in Scotland. Now you are saying you are a foreigner in Scotland. What is it about you, the same as when at one time you were just outside Edinburgh and then impossible, a few hours later on the Thai/Burma boarder.

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[wigantojapan]

http://www.arcofprosperity.org/darling-i-am-not-an-ethnic-nationalist/"

Alistair Darling should feel ashamed of himself. There are plenty of neo-fascist movements appearing all over Europe at moment that he could spend his time fighting. Ethnic nationalism is a horrible ideology, and applying that term to an anti-xenophobic party that welcomes foreigners like me with open arms is insulting, demeaning, harmful and evil. We are not amused."

You're making me very confused, Lancashire Lad, at one time you lead us to believe that you where English, then you categorically stated you were born and bred in Scotland. Now you are saying you are a foreigner in Scotland. What is it about you, the same as when at one time you were just outside Edinburgh and then impossible, a few hours later on the Thai/Burma boarder.

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you are making yourself confused by your constant referral to Lancashire lad..This you picked up from 7 by 7.I never ever said that i was English..,so if anyone led you to believe i was English it was the man from sussex.

.Where have i said i am a foreigner in Scotland,,so yes you are confused..

.Craiglockhart is NOT OUTSIDE Edinburgh so again you are confused on that point and i was not on the Thai Border 2 days after not a few hours so again you are confused on that also..though as you know you can easily travel from Uk to Thailand in 16 hours

The above link was from a foreigner who has been welcomed and made his life in Scotland,,something that is in short supply further South of Hadrian wall.

i take it then you support the comment by Darling