Bangkok clashes: 3 shot with 'live' rounds

[webfact]

3 shot with 'live' rounds
Pongphon Sarnsamak
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- AT LEAST three people were shot with "live" bullets during clashes yesterday between anti-government demonstrators and police in Bangkok, according to the Public Health Ministry.

As of 4pm yesterday, 94 people had received treatment for tear gas injuries at Bangkok hospitals - and no death was reported, Public Health Minister Pradith Sinthawanarong said.

At press time, Pradit said the toll of people injured in the ongoing unrest from November 30 |to 4pm on December 2 stood at 221. The civil strife has already seen at least three deaths, all victims of incidents in Ramkhamhaeng.

Ramathibodi Hospital director Assoc Prof Dr Surasak Leelaudomlipi said four protesters arrived at the hospital yesterday.

Two suffered from 'live' bullets and required surgery; one sustained a shot in the chest and the other was shot in the leg. Two other protesters were shot with rubber bullets; one was hit in stomach and the other only had a minor injury and was discharged.

One injured protester was Araya Klabwila, 43, who said he was hit by tear gas and an unidentified object in his right shoulder.

He was rushed from a protest outside the Metropolitan Police Bureau to Vajira Hospital at 1pm.

"I want police to stop using violence to disperse us as we did not enter into forbidden areas," he said. Araya drove his car from Songkhla to join the anti-government rally at Rajdamnoen two days ago.

"I just want them to call a new election and negotiations, which will be the way to unlock the political deadlock," he said.

"I still believe in elections. A new election would get us out of misunderstanding in society and we would have to accept the result of a new election."


-- The Nation 2013-12-03

[webfact]

FM to foreign diplomats: No live ammunition against protesters
By English News



BANGKOK, Dec 2 - Thailand's Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul on Monday gave assurances to foreign diplomats that the government has exercised the utmost patience and no live ammunition has been used in handling with anti-government demonstrators, while admitting that a third country has proposed to mediate talks between the sides.

The foreign minister, also a deputy prime minister, held a briefing on the current situation with diplomats from 60 countries and representatives from eight international organisations today. Thirty-seven ambassadors have attended the meeting by themselves.

Mr Surapong, now appointed as the director of the Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO), stated that the government has exercised the utmost restraint to avoid casualties.

He said the Thai government adheres to dialogue to solve the crisis and wants the demonstrations to be under the legal boundary.

As of now, ten countries have issued a statement expressing concern about the situation in Thailand.

Mr Surapong said he has told foreign envoys that the government is ready to resign or dissolve Parliament, but noted that these are not the demands of protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban.

The foreign minister added that four countries--Switzerland, the United Kingdom, the United States and China--proposed to mediate talks between the Thai government and Mr Suthep.

He said the government did not consider the move as foreign intervention in Thailand's domestic affairs as they are Thailand's allies and wants to see peace restored.

Regarding reports on the use of live ammunition against the protesters, Mr Surapong dismissed the reports, adding that he has told the foreign diplomats that the government is worried about a third party who may intervene to stir violence.

Meanwhile, CAPO spokesman Pol Maj Gen Piya Uthayo affirmed in a national televised address that no live ammunition has been used against the protesters.

He said riot police stayed behind the concrete barriers and fired tear gas as well as using water cannon against those who tried to intrude the prohibited areas.

He reaffirmed that riot police are unarmed and they have only shields and batons, but few officials are assigned to use tear gas.

Protesters from the People’s Democratic Reform Committee tried to break into Government House and clashed with riot police who fired tear gas at them to fend off their advance.

The protest leaders later asked their supporters to retreat in the afternoon, saying there will be good news tonight. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-12-03

[jaidam]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

[bangkokheat]

is that a picture of a building site or a war zone?

[Thait Spot]

Is it the police shooting?

Are they armed?

No comments so far from Adul

[newcomer71]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

There's no confirmation about what The Nation wrote, and if there are gunshot wounds how you can say it was from police?

Speculations and play game on people skin... That's all.

[newcomer71]

"I want police to stop using violence to disperse us as we did not enter into forbidden areas," he said. Araya drove his car from Songkhla to join the anti-government rally at Rajdamnoen two days ago.

"I just want them to call a new election and negotiations, which will be the way to unlock the political deadlock," he said.

"I still believe in elections. A new election would get us out of misunderstanding in society and we would have to accept the result of a new election."

I am glad to read opinion of a protester that seems reasonable, and he has all of my support.

That's "the people" request, but Suthep doesn't seem to care. He has his requests.

He talks about "people" but only thinks about himself, his greediness and his thirst of power.

[rametindallas]

Mr Surapong said he has told foreign envoys that the government is ready to resign or dissolve Parliament, but noted that these are not the demands of protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban.

Screw Suthep. Resign and dissolve the Thaksin government already. Hold new elections and 90% of the protestors will go home. If the protestors go home, Suthep will then have no one to lead and he will have to wake up from his wet dream of replacing the government with something unconstitutional.

New elections and a new government is the ONLY way to kill the 'blanket' amnesty bill that is just waiting for time to run out so it can be passed with a 50% + 1 vote. Dr. Thaksin's surrogates may win enough seats to form a new coalition government, but they will have to start all over to try to pass a new 'amnesty' bill to bring him back and the people won't be fooled by 'bait and switch' tactic like this current government used..

[Chao Lao Beach]

Two suffered from 'live' bullets and required surgery; one sustained a shot in the chest and the other was shot in the leg.

He reaffirmed that riot police are unarmed and they have only shields and batons, but few officials are assigned to use tear gas.

But

Two other protesters were shot with rubber bullets; one was hit in stomach and the other only had a minor injury and was discharged.

Hey, It is Just a Little, " Another White Lie " for the sake of the economy.

It would be nice for the violence to stop on both sides and they go back to the peaceful rally sites. Surely that is not asking for to much.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[Artisi]

Mr Surapong said he has told foreign envoys that the government is ready to resign or dissolve Parliament, but noted that these are not the demands of protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban.

Screw Suthep. Resign and dissolve the Thaksin government already. Hold new elections and 90% of the protestors will go home. If the protestors go home, Suthep will then have no one to lead and he will have to wake up from his wet dream of replacing the government with something unconstitutional.

New elections and a new government is the ONLY way to kill the 'blanket' amnesty bill that is just waiting for time to run out so it can be passed with a 50% + 1 vote. Dr. Thaksin's surrogates may win enough seats to form a new coalition government, but they will have to start all over to try to pass a new 'amnesty' bill to bring him back and the people won't be fooled by 'bait and switch' tactic like this current government used..

AGREED, If the current government is so sure of it's popularity and with the continual bleating we were democratically elected, show some balls (maybe a bit difficult for YL, although she could always remove her brothers for display) immediately call for new elections and remove all doubt once and for all that the PTP really have the support of the majority.

[GeorgeO]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

There's no confirmation about what The Nation wrote, and if there are gunshot wounds how you can say it was from police?

Speculations and play game on people skin... That's all.

Oh ... how the tables are suddenly turned.

It was pretty "obvious" to you Red Shirt apologists that the Red Shirt protesters were shot by the Army in 2010, but all of a sudden, things are now much more hazy....!!

[catweazle]

"I just want them to call a new election and negotiations, which will be the way to unlock the political deadlock,"

How can you do that if the so called "leader of the people" simply drops a "die or surrender" statement in a meeting with his opponent which was supposed to be a meeting where points of view are exchanged and negotiations are made?

[tangcoral]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Please back your bold statement. I need PROOF rather than speculation.

Edited December 3, 2013 by tangcoral

[webfact]

Live bullets were used with anti-Thaksin demonstrators



BANGKOK: -- Ramathibodi Hospital issued a statement last night saying two anti-government demonstrators were injured, one in critical condition, from live bullets fired at the demonstrators.

The statement said the two victims were shot by 9 m.m. caliber pistols . One was hit in the spine and now in critical condition. However it did not give details where the bullets were shot from.

But Public Health Minister Dr Pradit Sinthavanarong disclosed yesterday that two demonstrators and a reporter were shot with live bullets. Two of them were admitted to Ramathibodi hospital for treatment, one in critical condition.

He said that another injured was a Daily News reporter who was slightly injured when a bullet narrowly missed his ear. He has now returned home, the minister said.

A total of 94 people were injured in yesterday clashes with the police, most of them were from tear gas, he said and insisted that the government has no policy to use live ammunition with the demonstrators.

He assured that the live bullets were not fired from the police defending Government office.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/live-bullets-used-anti-thaksin-demonstrators/

-- Thai PBS 2013-12-03

[DocN]

No one has been shot (as in "killed) and it will be quiet hard to say, who fired live rounds...if that is true at all.

But finding it sad, that political opponents didn't die, is beyond the pale!

Grow up!

[newcomer71]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

There's no confirmation about what The Nation wrote, and if there are gunshot wounds how you can say it was from police?

Speculations and play game on people skin... That's all.

Oh ... how the tables are suddenly turned.

It was pretty "obvious" to you Red Shirt apologists that the Red Shirt protesters were shot by the Army in 2010, but all of a sudden, things are now much more hazy....!!

I am definitely tired to be pointed as a red shirt. You are an expert member here on TV.

Have a nice 5 minutes, look at my profile and read my posts.

I am not a Red Shirt apologists. I condemn ANY form of violence.

At the moment I posted, I thught it was funny only "The Nation" reported live rounds shooted. So, if you allow me, I didn't believe what they wrote until there's more than a biased paper report.

And, sorry for your suppositions, I was totally angry and freaking furious with red shirts when they seized Bangkok 3 years ago, and never pointed out they was innocent.

But you know better, and just judge me from 2 lines of post.

Edited December 3, 2013 by newcomer71

[theoldgit]

Flames and nonsense posts removed, please keep civil.

[NCFC]

the other paper reports 3 deaths to date. Two were known red supporters. They didn't mention the identity of the third.

[AloisAmrein]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Very one-sided view and wrong. Yingluk's government came to power with elections. In comparison with the precedent government she handles the violent protests carefully, using teargas and rubber bullets only, while Suthep and Abisith used firearms in 2010, causing more then 90 deaths. Suthep and Abisith are charged with multiple murder. Suthep, the actual opposition leader, is just a criminal, as Abisith too, both not respecting the laws and democracy.

[Zolt]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Yeah, I can absolutely see Yingluck giving the orders. "Let's shoot just TWO of these protesters and keep claiming we did nothing, I'm sure that will solve our problems"

[Rimbuman]

They will have to rewrite the amnesty bill.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Rimbuman

[aveabeeror2]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

There's no confirmation about what The Nation wrote, and if there are gunshot wounds how you can say it was from police?

Speculations and play game on people skin... That's all.

Oh ... how the tables are suddenly turned.

It was pretty "obvious" to you Red Shirt apologists that the Red Shirt protesters were shot by the Army in 2010, but all of a sudden, things are now much more hazy....!!

Im a bit out of date with things. Was the current government elected in a thailand wide election?

[lostmebike]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

There's no confirmation about what The Nation wrote, and if there are gunshot wounds how you can say it was from police?

Speculations and play game on people skin... That's all.

Oh ... how the tables are suddenly turned.

It was pretty "obvious" to you Red Shirt apologists that the Red Shirt protesters were shot by the Army in 2010, but all of a sudden, things are now much more hazy....!!

"Peaceful protesters" you're kidding right?

These yella'belly thugs are trying to storm government compounds by force!

Have you bothered to watch any news reports on T.V? they are employing all manner of violence to un seat a democratically elected government.

Who are these people that post these downright lies, are they that misinformed or just plain stupid?

Got to agree with Boxclever. They started out peacefully but now it's becoming reminiscent of the red bullies back in 2010. You've only got to open your eyes to see it's far from peaceful!

[Loles]

So, did you think K'Araya if you try to break in to police HQ and they will offer you massage, cocktail and a nice dinner ???

If you would try this in my country you are a pretty dead men already with your yellow mob mates also.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Loles

[jdinasia]

No one has been shot (as in "killed) and it will be quiet hard to say, who fired live rounds...if that is true at all.

But finding it sad, that political opponents didn't die, is beyond the pale!

Grow up!

That live rounds have been fired since Saturday night and that people have been killed and not admitting it is beyond the pale.. You should take your own advice.

[GentlemanJim]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Very one-sided view and wrong. Yingluk's government came to power with elections. In comparison with the precedent government she handles the violent protests carefully, using teargas and rubber bullets only, while Suthep and Abisith used firearms in 2010, causing more then 90 deaths. Suthep and Abisith are charged with multiple murder. Suthep, the actual opposition leader, is just a criminal, as Abisith too, both not respecting the laws and democracy.

Abhisit remained patient for over two months whilst the reds took over Bangkok city center, destroyed businesses, invaded hospitals and set up illegal checkpoints searching and intimidating Bangkok residents. Abhisit then agreed to ALL the terms and conditions set by the negotiators in a bid to keep peace and have everyone return home. Clearly an unexpected move, the negotiators never expected Abhisit's co-operation and upon receiving it, changed the goal posts and left negotiations with no conditions, they wanted a fight and did not want Abhisit to be seen to agreeing with them. In a return gesture for Abhisit agreeing to early elections and all of the other c**p they wanted the reds then called for the killing of soldiers, the burning of the city and they started throwing grenades and shooting at soldiers and civilians (note they did not act violently against police because the police were nowhere to be seen on the streets of Bangkok!).

I guess right now someone should remind Yingluck that you reap what you sow. The whole thing is a bloody mess and I blame one person....Thaksin.

[theoldgit]

References to Monarchy and responses removed.

[jdinasia]

So, did you think K'Araya if you try to break in to police HQ and they will offer you massage, cocktail and a nice dinner ???

If you would try this in my country you are a pretty dead men already with your yellow mob mates also.

What "yellow mob", try not to be stuck in the past. Things have changed. BTW ... "dead men already"? pure BS unless you are from a non-western particularly repressive country. Are you from N. Korea?

[jdinasia]

Is it the police shooting?

Are they armed?

No comments so far from Adul

At first the police denied using rubber bullets yesterday, I think CAPO also denied it. The some errant officer confirmed that they were indeed using rubber bullets. (ooops someone didn't get the script). They then admitted to using them at Government house only.

Later it appeared that they were used at 2 locations.

During that time period 2 protesters were shot by live rounds. (9mm is what was reported) Leg on one victim that had him undergoing multiple surgeries, and spine on another that may result in paralysis.

Since then there is also a report with photographs of a headshot from a distance and more throughout the night.

Al Jazeera (English) reporters also had their van hit twice by live ammo.

[Just1Voice]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

You know for a FACT that the police are using live rounds? Please enlighten us as to your source of information