Bangkok clashes: 3 shot with 'live' rounds

[gerry1011]

Now we have protesters shooting themselves in order to put the blame on the police?

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Isn't it time then for Yingluck to be indicted for murder - just as they did to Abhisit

[newcomer71]

Now we have protesters shooting themselves in order to put the blame on the police?

I would never say that, because it would be totally out of mind.

But I remember very well someone doing that at opposite parts in 2010.

World is getting crazy, really.

[Saladin]

I don't know Thailand or its politics very well but I am doing a lot of research as I plan to move there next year. It seems to me that a 'mob' led by a self appointed rabble rouser is trying to topple a democratically elected government. They don't seem to be interested in any reasonable negotiations and proposals from the government. It's like a Bolshevik revolution.

I can't think of any country in the world that would be so tolerant of such behaviour. Anywhere else, including the US and Australia, and the mob would be dispersed by whatever means considered necessary and the ringleaders would be rounded up and brought to trial.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So the government says, and tells all the foreign governments, that they're not using live ammunition or even rubber bullets on the protesters...

But then within the same day, protesters are admitted to Ramathibodi Hospital with rubber bullet and gunshot wounds, and the hospital (a government hospital) confirms this.

So what are we to conclude???

1. The government is lying again and/or the people talking don't know what their own minions are doing?

2. The protesters are shooting at each other in order to blame the government?

3. Or the ever popular, it's the black shirt guys doing the shooting... not us!

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Now we have protesters shooting themselves in order to put the blame on the police?

Are you looking for getting the pro-redskirt posting award of the year or?

[winstonc]

So the government says, and tells all the foreign governments, that they're not using live ammunition or even rubber bullets on the protesters...

But then within the same day, protesters are admitted to Ramathibodi Hospital with rubber bullet and gunshot wounds, and the hospital (a government hospital) confirms this.

So what are we to conclude???

1. The government is lying again and/or the people talking don't know what their own minions are doing?

2. The protesters are shooting at each other in order to blame the government?

3. Or the ever popular, it's the black shirt guys doing the shooting... not us!

number 2 ofcourse there shooting eachother,it must be true cos gerry1011 says so ..another made up not thought out post from einstien...

[newcomer71]

I don't know Thailand or its politics very well but I am doing a lot of research as I plan to move there next year. It seems to me that a 'mob' led by a self appointed rabble rouser is trying to topple a democratically elected government. They don't seem to be interested in any reasonable negotiations and proposals from the government. It's like a Bolshevik revolution.

I can't think of any country in the world that would be so tolerant of such behaviour. Anywhere else, including the US and Australia, and the mob would be dispersed by whatever means considered necessary and the ringleaders would be rounded up and brought to trial.

Welcome to Thaivisa forum, beware such ideas like yours are not well tolerated from some poster here.

You will be soon depicted as a redshirt, pro-Thaksin! Lol

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't know Thailand or its politics very well but I am doing a lot of research as I plan to move there next year. It seems to me that a 'mob' led by a self appointed rabble rouser is trying to topple a democratically elected government. They don't seem to be interested in any reasonable negotiations and proposals from the government. It's like a Bolshevik revolution.

I can't think of any country in the world that would be so tolerant of such behaviour. Anywhere else, including the US and Australia, and the mob would be dispersed by whatever means considered necessary and the ringleaders would be rounded up and brought to trial.

You're right... You don't.

Go back to 2010 and read up on the well-armed Red Shirt mobs that invaded and took over parts of Bangkok for several months, resisting all government peaceful efforts to disperse them or find any resolution. That played out for a couple months, before things finally disintegrated into outright combat and street fighting.

The leaders of the Democrat-led government at that time are currently being charged with murder by the current PTP/Red Shirt government for the deaths that occurred during those protests. And a fair number of the members of the current government were leaders or participants in the Red Shirt protests then, which culminated in the widespread burning of Bangkok.

So based on the last go-round of this, government officials who take actions to disperse armed mobs get charged with murder. And the leaders of the mobs and/or their behind-the-scenes sponsors end up forming the resulting new government.

[Nickymaster]

For sure Yingluck has told a few police men (through her mobile phone) to kill protestors. Hitting her with premeditated murder charges would be the only fare thing to do.

[Just1Voice]

Bangkok Post is now reporting that the protesters will be allowed in the MPB building and they can do what they want.

[Baerboxer]

Bangkok Post is now reporting that the protesters will be allowed in the MPB building and they can do what they want.

Interesting tactic if true.

OK - you want to come in, come on then, welcome! <deleted> do they do inside. Hopefully resist the temptation to trash the place and look even more like a degenerate mob of hooligans rather than a peaceful protest against an unjust and corrupt government.

Someone is thinking their tactics through better than someone else!

[Nickymaster]

Now we have protesters shooting themselves in order to put the blame on the police?

Here we have the story maker again....

[fareastguy]

Mr Surapong, now appointed as the director of the Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO), stated that the government has exercised the utmost restraint to avoid casualties.

He said the Thai government adheres to dialogue to solve the crisis and wants the demonstrations to be under the legal boundary.

The time for "dialogue" surely was in the government offices during the "so called" debate of the amnesty bill.

But the PTP cut short the oppositions time for "dialogue" and forced through the vote.

Now they are paying a higher price for their "democratic actions"

While I don't agree with all of Suthep's actions or indeed condone the actions of a few mindless thugs who want to see blood,

I totally agree it's time for the "Shin" clan to bow out of politics for the sake of Thailand's domestic & intrenational future..

[Nickymaster]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Very one-sided view and wrong. Yingluk's government came to power with elections. In comparison with the precedent government she handles the violent protests carefully, using teargas and rubber bullets only, while Suthep and Abisith used firearms in 2010, causing more then 90 deaths. Suthep and Abisith are charged with multiple murder. Suthep, the actual opposition leader, is just a criminal, as Abisith too, both not respecting the laws and democracy.

Abhisit remained patient for over two months whilst the reds took over Bangkok city center, destroyed businesses, invaded hospitals and set up illegal checkpoints searching and intimidating Bangkok residents. Abhisit then agreed to ALL the terms and conditions set by the negotiators in a bid to keep peace and have everyone return home. Clearly an unexpected move, the negotiators never expected Abhisit's co-operation and upon receiving it, changed the goal posts and left negotiations with no conditions, they wanted a fight and did not want Abhisit to be seen to agreeing with them. In a return gesture for Abhisit agreeing to early elections and all of the other c**p they wanted the reds then called for the killing of soldiers, the burning of the city and they started throwing grenades and shooting at soldiers and civilians (note they did not act violently against police because the police were nowhere to be seen on the streets of Bangkok!).

I guess right now someone should remind Yingluck that you reap what you sow. The whole thing is a bloody mess and I blame one person....Thaksin.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Nickymaster

[oldsailor35]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

There's no confirmation about what The Nation wrote, and if there are gunshot wounds how you can say it was from police?

Speculations and play game on people skin... That's all.

Oh ... how the tables are suddenly turned.

It was pretty "obvious" to you Red Shirt apologists that the Red Shirt protesters were shot by the Army in 2010, but all of a sudden, things are now much more hazy....!!

Im a bit out of date with things. Was the current government elected in a thailand wide election?

Absolutely yes. The opposition (Democrats) have not won an election in 20 years, this is why Suthep is causing all this trouble, because its the only way he can get into power.

[Somrak]

@AloisA.

Sad, sad, ..... but you may did forget to mention the man from Dubai!?

Edited December 3, 2013 by Somrak

[DGIE]

jaidam said:

Posted Today, 07:33

POPULAR

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters....

Are you sure the protesters are peaceful? Maybe you saw them peaceful

during the first few days of protest.

I am not taking any side as I am not Thai...

I just based what I say to what I saw.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

For sure Yingluck has told a few police men (through her mobile phone) to kill protestors. Hitting her with premeditated murder charges would be the only fare thing to do.

Yep, exactly like Abhisit. The only fair thing to do would be to put her up on murder charges. But, as we all know, this government has no respect for the country's judicial system. so I wouldn't expect them to own up to their crimes.

[Emdog]

A democratically elected government has the right and obligation to protect itself against mobs, starting with arrests and moving up the scale as needed, including shooting those who would topple the government. Remarkable restraint has been shown to these who are doing all they can to provoke the government. ""I want police to stop using violence to disperse us as we did not enter into forbidden areas,": well, it is not for want of trying! And the line "I believe in elections" is nonsense. You believe only if your side wins, which they don't. Love or hate Taksin family, they are the ones the Thai people prefer as shown by elections. If they are so awful, let them dig their own holes and bury them during next scheduled election. But mob can't wait, and wouldn't win even if they did wait. People get the government they deserve, good or bad.

[Artisi]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Very one-sided view and wrong. Yingluk's government came to power with elections. In comparison with the precedent government she handles the violent protests carefully, using teargas and rubber bullets only, while Suthep and Abisith used firearms in 2010, causing more then 90 deaths. Suthep and Abisith are charged with multiple murder. Suthep, the actual opposition leader, is just a criminal, as Abisith too, both not respecting the laws and democracy.

Of course they used firearms, wouldn't you if fired on by the fugitive funded red scum bought the Bkk just to cause havoc, shoot people and burn down buildings. )

Edited December 3, 2013 by Sheryl
unnecessary baiting remark removed by Moderator

[tingtongteesood]

They keep ranting and raving about how 'we were a democratically elected government' - I don't care. Whether you were voted for or not, when you take office you do so on the understanding that you should do what is in the interests of the country, that is the job description and what is expected of you. The PT bunch of idiots has very rarely if ever done anything for this country, most of what they do is in self interests. This is not their job. If someone is bad at their job they should be removed and replaced as soon as possible. Worse this government has blatantly lied, stolen and cheated and flouted the law repeatedly. They are bad and must go now. I don't know what will follow, but if a government is as bad as this one the people have every right to try and boot them out and they should !

[GentlemanJim]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Very one-sided view and wrong. Yingluk's government came to power with elections. In comparison with the precedent government she handles the violent protests carefully, using teargas and rubber bullets only, while Suthep and Abisith used firearms in 2010, causing more then 90 deaths. Suthep and Abisith are charged with multiple murder. Suthep, the actual opposition leader, is just a criminal, as Abisith too, both not respecting the laws and democracy.

Abhisit remained patient for over two months whilst the reds took over Bangkok city center, destroyed businesses, invaded hospitals and set up illegal checkpoints searching and intimidating Bangkok residents. Abhisit then agreed to ALL the terms and conditions set by the negotiators in a bid to keep peace and have everyone return home. Clearly an unexpected move, the negotiators never expected Abhisit's co-operation and upon receiving it, changed the goal posts and left negotiations with no conditions, they wanted a fight and did not want Abhisit to be seen to agreeing with them. In a return gesture for Abhisit agreeing to early elections and all of the other c**p they wanted the reds then called for the killing of soldiers, the burning of the city and they started throwing grenades and shooting at soldiers and civilians (note they did not act violently against police because the police were nowhere to be seen on the streets of Bangkok!).

I guess right now someone should remind Yingluck that you reap what you sow. The whole thing is a bloody mess and I blame one person....Thaksin.

Thanks for finding the picture. For those with a clouded or vague recollection of events in 2010 the photo shows the moment that Abhisit finally conceeded to the red negotiating team. Note the elation on Jatuporns face. Several hours later when the thug in Dubai realised he was not going to get his battle he changed the plan. All deals were off and the reds were to fight and occupy just for the hell of it. Result, grenade attacks, invasions, shootings, burnings, not a single policeman in sight (unless Chalerm is to believed and they were some of the men in black), and soldiers with zero option but to defend themselves - 90 dead. Now tell me who is guilty of their deaths!

[johnlandy]

Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Absolutely correct. If she was genuine, if she was sincere she would have packed her swag and joined the square faced man (if she can find the rock he is hiding under)

[whybother]

 Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

Very one-sided view and wrong. Yingluk's government came to power with elections. In comparison with the precedent government she handles the violent protests carefully, using teargas and rubber bullets only, while Suthep and Abisith used firearms in 2010, causing more then 90 deaths. Suthep and Abisith are charged with multiple murder. Suthep, the actual opposition leader, is just a criminal, as Abisith too, both not respecting the laws and democracy.

2010 started with teargas and rubber bullets too. Until the red shirt militia started shooting and throwing grenades.

Sent from my phone ...

[whybother]

 

 

 Stunning that Yingluck's government is brutally shooting dead these peaceful protesters, even more stunning in light of the continuous bleating since 2010 of the same accusation. She has totally lost any moral high ground(not that she ever had any IMO) she may have once had now that she has ordered her gunmen to open fire. History shows that a sitting PM opining fire on peaceful protesters does not last long in office, since they are forever tainted with blood on their hands.

 

There's no confirmation about what The Nation wrote, and if there are gunshot wounds how you can say it was from police?

Speculations and play game on people skin... That's all. 

 

 

Oh ... how the tables are suddenly turned.

 

It was pretty "obvious" to you Red Shirt apologists that the Red Shirt protesters were shot by the Army in 2010, but all of a sudden, things are now much more hazy....!!

 

Im a bit out of date with things. Was the current government elected in a thailand wide election?

Was there any MP in the last government that wasn't elected in a Thailand wide election?

Sent from my phone ...

[whybother]

Now we have protesters shooting themselves in order to put the blame on the police?

Running into bullets?

Sent from my phone ...

[whybother]

A democratically elected government has the right and obligation to protect itself against mobs, starting with arrests and moving up the scale as needed, including shooting those who would topple the government. Remarkable restraint has been shown to these who are doing all they can to provoke the government. ""I want police to stop using violence to disperse us as we did not enter into forbidden areas,": well, it is not for want of trying! And the line "I believe in elections" is nonsense. You believe only if your side wins, which they don't. Love or hate Taksin family, they are the ones the Thai people prefer as shown by elections. If they are so awful, let them dig their own holes and bury them during next scheduled election. But mob can't wait, and wouldn't win even if they did wait. People get the government they deserve, good or bad.

I'm glad you agree with Abhisit's tactics in dealing with the red shirts.

Sent from my phone ...

[rubl]

"with four deaths, the toll of people injured in the ongoing unrest from November 30 to 4pm on December 2 stood at 221"

Next we'll get the government taking resposibility, like

2012-05-12 Govt to pay compensation for political victims tomorrow

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Govt-to-pay-compensation-for-political-victims-tom-30182646.html

2012-01-10 Thailand Agrees Payouts for victims of unrest

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/525250-thailand-agrees-payouts-for-victims-of-unrest/

[DocN]

No one has been shot (as in "killed) and it will be quiet hard to say, who fired live rounds...if that is true at all.

But finding it sad, that political opponents didn't die, is beyond the pale!

Grow up!

That live rounds have been fired since Saturday night and that people have been killed and not admitting it is beyond the pale.. You should take your own advice.

As I read it, the OP is not about the clashes on Saturday, where people died!

It is about the alleged use of life- rounds in the clashes yesterday.

As is my comment!

I already stated very clearly, what I think about what happened on Saturday!