Beat up by a baht bus driver ... are they above the law?

[Jingthing]

A lot of Thai apologists here.

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[up-country_sinclair]

A lot of holes in the story here.

All you need to do is answer the pertinent question: What was the route?

[JUDAS]

I can't wait to read the book, "The Epic Adventures of Jingthing"

[Jingthing]

No holes. Imagine the longest possible ride and if you think violence was OK then there is your hole -- in your moral compass.

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[Jingthing]

I can't wait to read the book, "The Epic Adventures of Jingthing"

I wish they were more epic.

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[WaywardWind]

A lot of Thai apologists here.

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That is a BS response.

You absolutely refuse to disclose the starting and destination points so that others could judge whether or not you were paying the appropriate amount or trying to short change the driver, something that you would not get away with anywhere in the world.

As for your contention that the distance is irrelevant to whether or not the driver's actions were justified, that is absolute nonsense as well - if you tried to scam a 20 baht ride for 10 baht, then the motivations of the driver would be far more understandable.

[Jingthing]

Rubbish. I NEVER said the driver's motivations were not understandable. The Bangkok cabbie that murdered an American with a samurai sword's motivations were understandable. It's not about the fare detaild it's about driver violence.

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[Rupert2]

Because of the numerous blanks or grey areas in the story that you are not prepared to discuss I was thinking about what you wrote in post-53

“ Normal 10 baht bus ride. I paid 10. He demanded 20. I only said mai chi sip and walked away.”

Perhaps he interpreted your gesture of walking away as “ take it or leave it “ whereas if you had just spent a few extra seconds explaining where you had got on and why he was asking you to pay more now than what you normally pay he may have backed off? There must have been something in the attitude you conveyed to him that set him off.

I agree. Language and such. Anyway still not acceptable.

It's processed by the driver as an insult and he may be on the edge at the moment. Similar to my x wife :-)

[Gsxrnz]

JT - The driver obviously believed you breached the 10B travelling distance. In fact you say in an earlier post that he actually said he wanted 20B, implying this is the case.

One can therefore reasonably assume that you were at, or extremely close to what you probably believed was the 10B range. Your reluctance to confirm the route also suggests strongly that this may be the case - I'm sure we'd all like to know the facts.

Arguably therefore, you were probably in "no man's land" as far as the distance goes. Perhaps you just wanted to prove your point, and he wanted to prove his point....ergo, we have a dispute.

As far as the driver is concerned, he could technically claim you were stealing from him. Just as you could believe that he was trying to rip you off. You've already confirmed that the amount is irrelevant, so we now only have to deal with the principals involved.

He asked for an additional 10B. You refused and essentially said "No! 10B" (mai-chai. sip baht. as quoted from your earlier post.). You may not realise it, but those words spoken as you spoke them in an atmosphere of conflict (or possible conflict) are actually quite rude and blunt. This no doubt would have caused him more anger on top of the actual 10B.

You basically told him how it is and left no room for either negotiation or for him to compromise. You didn't use the polite particle, and you didn't address him in any way. You should have asked the question "normally 10B from xxxx to here isn't it? (Nong/Pee/Kuhn kap, bpa-ga-ti sip baht xxxxx ti-ni, chai-mai kap? And if you can't do the Thai, you should have said the same in English with a smile, and he probably would have understood and had dialogue that might have avoided the confrontation.

The violence is not justified - but if you ran a retail outlet and a customer essentially grabbed an item off the shelf, handed you half the cost and then walked out, what would you do? Remember - the amount is irrelevant. Could have been a 20B drink, or a 20,000B Television.

I think your apparent uber-knowledge and passion re baht busses has made you push the envelope re the distance more than was wise. And then you handled the conflict situation badly by being rude to him - either do the Thai as close to correctly as you can, or stick to English.

And anybody who wants to slap me with an apologists badge, feel free. But if wanting to be polite to those that I deal with every day makes me an apologist, then I don't have a problem with that.

[bender92]

Did you say something rude in broken Thai? Or pay in 50 satang coins???

[Jingthing]

Did you say something rude in broken Thai? Or pay in 50 satang coins???

10 baht coin. No I do not have long conversations with baht bus drivers.

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[Asiantravel]

Rubbish. I NEVER said the driver's motivations were not understandable. The Bangkok cabbie that murdered an American with a samurai sword's motivations were understandable. It's not about the fare detaild it's about driver violence.

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But how else could he possibly convey his dissatisfaction with the situation when you walked away?

You didn't give him a chance for a discussion

[Jingthing]

I already explained what he could have done. Thai apologists here making excuses for this violence disgust me. The same kind of inanity was heard even when the America was stabbed to death in Bangkok that he must have not been polite enough.

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[up-country_sinclair]

The driver obviously believed you breached the 10B travelling distance. In fact you say in an earlier post that he actually said he wanted 20B, implying this is the case.

One can therefore reasonably assume that you were at, or extremely close to what you probably believed was the 10B range. Your reluctance to confirm the route also suggests strongly that this may be the case - I'm sure we'd all like to know the facts.

Yes, we would like to know the facts. But for some reason the information about the route taken is being guarded as if it were a state secret.

[jimmybcool]

I will not reveal the specific route in the incident. The reason is because this thread is specifically about the violence issue. It is not about any change in the fare structure. There is NO such change. In the context of the topic of this thread it wouldn't matter if the ride was from far south Jomtien to Naklua market. The violence would still not be justified.

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I was sympathetic to your being attacked. Reread my earlier posts. No sarcasm or snark. But I am seeing a pattern here. First apparently you are extremely stubborn. Your refusal to describe the route taken and length of journey is ridiculous. You expect everyone to take your side in this you need to provide all the pertinent data. You are in denial that the baht bus fare structure might NOT be 10 baht from anywhere to anywhere. And if you came across as stubborn or overbearing to a thai that will set them off.

Really, violence justified? No. Not in our world. But in thailand where face is instilled in them from birth violence over 1 baht is justified. In his eyes you stole from him. By stubbornly refusing to accept that the fare might not be what you think it is? Maybe? Of course we won't know because you won't be bullied over the internet into telling us. Really? That attitude is exactly why you have problems.

[Jingthing]

Blame the victim. Brilliant!

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[Jingthing]

I do often test the fare system by paying 10 and only paying 20 if they balk. Not risky as long as you do respond to a balk. Long ride is not defined ... we need to figure that out ourselves for runs we take. One balk is not conclusive. 5 out of 10 would be conclusive.

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[manarak]

I do often test the fare system by paying 10 and only paying 20 if they balk. Not risky as long as you do respond to a balk. Long ride is not defined ... we need to figure that out ourselves for runs we take. One balk is not conclusive. 5 out of 10 would be conclusive.

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actually there is or was a fare system. I remember an old poster detailing 5 baht, 10 baht, 15 baht and 20 baht rides.

[Naam]

I will not reveal the specific route in the incident. The reason is because this thread is specifically about the violence issue. It is not about any change in the fare structure. There is NO such change. In the context of the topic of this thread it wouldn't matter if the ride was from far south Jomtien to Naklua market. The violence would still not be justified.

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JT,

i wholeheartedly agree that the violence you experienced is not justified. period!

but neither is justified that you obviously cheated a poor àrsehole out of 10 Baht!

[Jingthing]

Again I fully understand the motivation and anger of the driver and his belief that I underpaid him. I also accept blame for not responding to his balk. Those who say that was time to negotiate are bonkers -- the only two choices were pay more or not. I made the wrong choice However it should concern that there are such violent men driving these trucks. This guy has clearly attacked riders before and will again. He shouldn't be on the road

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[Gsxrnz]

I do often test the fare system by paying 10 and only paying 20 if they balk. Not risky as long as you do respond to a balk. Long ride is not defined ... we need to figure that out ourselves for runs we take. One balk is not conclusive. 5 out of 10 would be conclusive.

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Well, that about sums it up. You've probably stiffed the same guy more than once and he's saying enough is enough.

[brewsterbudgen]

I already explained what he could have done. Thai apologists here making excuses for this violence disgust me. The same kind of inanity was heard even when the America was stabbed to death in Bangkok that he must have not been polite enough.

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I haven't read one post here that is making an excuse for violence of saying it is acceptable Thai behaviour. That doesn't mean that short-changing a taxi driver or acting in a rude manner is any more acceptable. If you did this to a London cabbie you would face a similar response.

[Jingthing]

No the fare system is only 10 baht per ride and 20 for long haul but long is not defined by the company. I am sure about that

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[Jingthing]

Its not at all like a London cabbie mate. There is no ambiguity about the fare due there.

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[Tolley]

RIde the songtaews long enough and you will experience some pretty obnoxioux unprovoked aggression from a driver.

I have witnessed unprovoked violence over misunderstandings and i have also had some nasty experiences with drivers for no reason whatsoever.

Many are on short fuses so it doesnt take very much for them to blow up and a misunderstanding might be all it takes.

Posters here always looking for reasons for why a Thai reacted in a violent manner may find out the hard way some day that sometimes they dont need a reason at all

[sms747]

What happened to a proper bus system in Pattaya I seem to remember hearing about? These baht bus thugs in Pattaya are a rip off to start with. For 20 baht in bkk you could go from pratunam to pram 2 on the expressway in a nice air con bus, and things are meant to be cheaper in Pattaya! Life and respect certainly seems to be.

[Jingthing]

Exactly Tolley there are some very mad and sometimes you can tell just by their driving style. But in this case again I made a mistake and suggest others learn from it. Really testing paying 10 is very safe I can assure you but not responding to a balk is quitw ... dangerous.

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[UncleJ]

Jomtien to Central Festival.

That is my guess.

[Jingthing]

Don't bother guessing but I will say Jomtien to Klang the well tested fare is 10 baht. I know many people think the line is pattaya tai but they are wrong.

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[transam]

Look jt, some of us know how to take care of our self, BUT, when 10 bht is involved I/perhaps/we, would cough up, smile, and walk away. End of story. Just not worth the hassle over 10 bht.