Bangkok: Anti-government protest 'resumes Friday'

[ggold]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

I guess if it will save lives then well worth it don't you think?

That's debatable - if governments collapsed every time some ex-DPM decided he's better and attempts a coup it would be chaos around the world. Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Edit : of course the downside of democracy is that sometimes you lose and this is a lesson Suthep should learn to take with grace

The upside of democracy being that the govt should be accountable to the rules of law and good governance. If PT had followed this principle, this barking mad loon might never have been able to get to the position he is now in. Suthep is dangerous and delusional, however PT gave him all the reasons he needed to get people out on the streets. If they had governed in a legitimate manner rather than the corrupt, self serving one they have followed this insane situation would not have arisen.

But as we are always told "This is Thailand"! This is Thaimess!

Edited December 5, 2013 by ggold

[ggold]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

I guess if it will save lives then well worth it don't you think?

That's debatable - if governments collapsed every time some ex-DPM decided he's better and attempts a coup it would be chaos around the world. Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Edit : of course the downside of democracy is that sometimes you lose and this is a lesson Suthep should learn to take with grace

Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Just to point out, That statement would be valid in any part of the world but Thailand! Thais did not die in defence of Democracy in WW11.

[Baerboxer]

2 arrest warrants and the old fool is still out there gearing up the remaining "protestors" for further assaults on gov buildings etc.

Lighting the fuse to further violence and disruption.Most, all? other countries he would either already be in custody or more likely no longer around to cause the problems.

The gov should have the balls to carry out the warrants on him and his senior cronies and then deal peacefully with the remaining headless protestors.

A real government would have the balls ..............

and they'd have the balls to extradite the criminal fugitive who has caused so much damage with his lust for power, revenge and greed.

But they won't of course. They only govern for themselves and their own benefit.

Most countries would not put up with a government that is controlled and openly cavorts with a convicted criminal, and even sneakily attempts to whitewash him either. A senior police officer visits him overseas and allows to put is new insignia on ? Just about sums up the state of the police.

The PM/DM openly admitted on Al Jazeera that she talks almost daily with her brother. She doesn't think this is wrong - he's a fugitive from justice, with an illegally issued passport that her cousin the foreign minister issued. They have no regard for the law, morals or ethics - any of them.

[MK1]

What a hypocrite Khun Suthep is inviting to celebrations at three prostest sides while His Majesty has already called for unity of all Thais in his last year's birthday speech as his sincerest wish.

HM has also called for the end of government coruption, whilst government is paying lip service, it has been ignored.

It was today reported that only 370k tonnes of rice have been shipped to China out of the contracted 4.8 million tonnes via the government to government deal. Government agencies are refusing to supply the documentation of shipments from the warehouses to NACC for investigation. Yet another coverup of a large scale corrupt government transaction.

In reference to large scale corrupt government transaction; the dirty deal deed is called ‘Contra’ perhaps in lieu of a provisional fee for expected services to be performed on large-scale mega projects.

[Baerboxer]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

I guess if it will save lives then well worth it don't you think?

That's debatable - if governments collapsed every time some ex-DPM decided he's better and attempts a coup it would be chaos around the world. Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Edit : of course the downside of democracy is that sometimes you lose and this is a lesson Suthep should learn to take with grace

Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Just to point out, That statement would be valid in any part of the world but Thailand! Thais did not die in defence of Democracy in WW11.

Not sure you're correct. The Thais sent a small expeditionary force to support the allies in WW1. In WW11 the Thai government sided with Japan. But an underground movement was formed and supplied by the allies.

I agree we should cherish democracy. My relations fought in both world wars and suffered injuries and the loss of many friends, relatives and comrades. Now, democracy seems to be being eroded all over the world.

[sorbormoryorhor]

Everybody hold your horses!!! A breakthrough!!! cracked the thai enigma code using the PMs interview post!!

Supplement the following in all political quotes:

Democracy = Da mockery

The constitution = Da constipation

All becomes crystal clear.

[LomSak27]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

[Ricardo]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

No point in dissolving anything. State your case in writing and your demands (which Suthep is very vague about), the reasons and evidence of any claims of mal-pratice. Lets not bleating about rice scams and 2.2 trillion baht etc and come together around the table. They have nearly 2 years before the next election. Put a proposal to the people and let them truly decide. By the people I dont mean the 100,000+ who turned up for a jolly in Bangkok (dwindling daily). Lets ask the full electorate what they want.

"Lets ask the full electorate what they want."

I agree completely, a national-referendum is the best way to test and ratify any potentially-controversial constitutional-changes, nothing less than that is really acceptable. Voting things through, using one's temporary parliamentary-majority isn't enough, unless perhaps there is all-party support for something which clearly has wide national acceptance. Which I think happened under the Dems, with the adjustment to the number of MPs ?

This standard was set by the junta-appointed government of 2006-7, can an elected government of any colour accept a lower standard, than them ?

"No point in dissolving anything."

Beg to differ, the best way to defuse the current situation is for PM-Yingluck to keep her word, and dissolve Parliament to hold new elections as soon as possible. If that doesn't suit Suthep then tough ! It's the only way I can see to convince everyone else, that the Amnesty-Bill really is dead, rather than (as she's also said) merely "suspended". Time to match her words with actions !

And who knows what the new balance in Parliament might be ? At the very least, nobody would be dead/injured on-the-streets, for the duration of the campaigning.

Oh, except for former-DPM Chalerm, who's only got 26 days to go, until he's promised to decapitate himself !

Perhaps his full-retirement, and resignation (like Suthep) of his MP-seat would be an acceptable, if less entertaining, alternative ?

[bigbamboo]

Nice to see people on the TV news channels waving flags, cheering, crying... what a wonderful expression of their love for their king.

And tomorrow? Back to the barricades, throwing Molotov cocktails, etc.

What a country!

At least there's a truce.

You half expect impromptu football matches to breakout amongst the barbed wire of no man's land and reds and anti-government protestors swapping souvenir shirts and bottles of lao khao for edible rice.

Then tonight it will be three whistles and back to the fighting.

[ratcatcher]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

"Feudalism ended what 100 years ago."

I think 'feudalism' is alive and kicking in Thailand, it is part of Thainess, their culture. It's all part of the wais and the wherefores.

Liege lords abound in this country, particularly in rural areas where the peasants (farmers) are beholden to the local poo yai.

Banharn, Sanoh, Newin are typical examples.

[tominbkk]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

"Feudalism ended what 100 years ago."

 

I think 'feudalism' is alive and kicking in Thailand, it is part of Thainess, their culture.  It's all part of the wais and the wherefores. 

 

Liege lords abound in this country, particularly in rural areas where the peasants (farmers) are beholden to the local poo yai.

 

Banharn, Sanoh, Newin are typical examples. 

No real change til the social pyramid is flattened out.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ratcatcher]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

"Feudalism ended what 100 years ago."

I think 'feudalism' is alive and kicking in Thailand, it is part of Thainess, their culture. It's all part of the wais and the wherefores.

Liege lords abound in this country, particularly in rural areas where the peasants (farmers) are beholden to the local poo yai.

Banharn, Sanoh, Newin are typical examples.

No real change til the social pyramid is flattened out.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wasn't that what Pol Pot imagined?

[MK1]

What a hypocrite Khun Suthep is inviting to celebrations at three prostest sides while His Majesty has already called for unity of all Thais in his last year's birthday speech as his sincerest wish.

What I see is Anti-government protesters celebrating the Kings birthday by playing music at various sites with gusto, according to Blue SKY TV, which is in stark contrast to the Pro–government Reds that continue to bitch and whinge on Asia TV red channel about their unfortunate happenings as consequence of their own corrupt, nepotism and greed.

Edited December 5, 2013 by MK1

[hellodolly]

I guess if it will save lives then well worth it don't you think?

That's debatable - if governments collapsed every time some ex-DPM decided he's better and attempts a coup it would be chaos around the world. Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Edit : of course the downside of democracy is that sometimes you lose and this is a lesson Suthep should learn to take with grace

Don't think Suthep has any great problem with democracy - he just wants, and rightly so, the convicted criminal and fugitive from justice running the country permanently removed from the scene so Thailand can get on with developing itself instead of bring know as Nakhon Shinawatra.

If they got rid of " all the convicted criminal and fugitive from justice running the country " there would be no one left.

Oh, and thank heavens Suthep opted to not politicize the King's Birthday...

You said

"If they got rid of " all the convicted criminal and fugitive from justice running the country " there would be no one left.

Oh, and thank heavens Suthep opted to not politicize the King's Birthday."

I have reworded it so that it is more accurate no thanks needed

If they got rid of " all the convicted criminal and fugitive from justice running the country working for Thaksin Shinawatra based in Dubai" there would be no one left.

Oh, and thank heavens Suthep opted to not politicize the King's Birthday...

[kimamey]

2 arrest warrants and the old fool is still out there gearing up the remaining "protestors" for further assaults on gov buildings etc.

Lighting the fuse to further violence and disruption.Most, all? other countries he would either already be in custody or more likely no longer around to cause the problems.

The gov should have the balls to carry out the warrants on him and his senior cronies and then deal peacefully with the remaining headless protestors.

I think the government are very wise not to arrest him. That would only incite the demonstrators hence the call for him to surrender instead.

Happy Birthday to HM.

I'm glad I'm not there for the chanting ceremony. I seen one of those and the best bit was seeing the monks trying to hide their yawns.

Edited December 5, 2013 by kimamey

[hellodolly]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

"Feudalism ended what 100 years ago."

I think 'feudalism' is alive and kicking in Thailand, it is part of Thainess, their culture. It's all part of the wais and the wherefores.

Liege lords abound in this country, particularly in rural areas where the peasants (farmers) are beholden to the local poo yai.

Banharn, Sanoh, Newin are typical examples.

No real change til the social pyramid is flattened out.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wasn't that what Pol Pot imagined?

Indeed it was. A very sick example of these idealists ideals in action.

One thing common about being an idealist is you don't have to have common sense.

[hellodolly]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

No point in dissolving anything. State your case in writing and your demands (which Suthep is very vague about), the reasons and evidence of any claims of mal-pratice. Lets not bleating about rice scams and 2.2 trillion baht etc and come together around the table. They have nearly 2 years before the next election. Put a proposal to the people and let them truly decide. By the people I dont mean the 100,000+ who turned up for a jolly in Bangkok (dwindling daily). Lets ask the full electorate what they want.

"Lets ask the full electorate what they want."

I agree completely, a national-referendum is the best way to test and ratify any potentially-controversial constitutional-changes, nothing less than that is really acceptable. Voting things through, using one's temporary parliamentary-majority isn't enough, unless perhaps there is all-party support for something which clearly has wide national acceptance. Which I think happened under the Dems, with the adjustment to the number of MPs ?

This standard was set by the junta-appointed government of 2006-7, can an elected government of any colour accept a lower standard, than them ?

"No point in dissolving anything."

Beg to differ, the best way to defuse the current situation is for PM-Yingluck to keep her word, and dissolve Parliament to hold new elections as soon as possible. If that doesn't suit Suthep then tough ! It's the only way I can see to convince everyone else, that the Amnesty-Bill really is dead, rather than (as she's also said) merely "suspended". Time to match her words with actions !

And who knows what the new balance in Parliament might be ? At the very least, nobody would be dead/injured on-the-streets, for the duration of the campaigning.

Oh, except for former-DPM Chalerm, who's only got 26 days to go, until he's promised to decapitate himself !

Perhaps his full-retirement, and resignation (like Suthep) of his MP-seat would be an acceptable, if less entertaining, alternative ?

I would agree to let the electorate decide providing they were giving the understanding of what it meant. Both the Pro's and the Con'

This standard was set by the junta-appointed government of 2006-7, can an elected government of any colour accept a lower standard, than them ?

I was not paying that much attention at that time but did they not take a good Constitution and make it a bit more clear. For the most part left it alone. Not sure what other damage they did. For sure stopped Thailand from becoming a dictatorship. Beyond that not clear i noticed the corruption rate started up until Abhist got in and managed to level it off. since then it is going out of site.

[blundaman]

...I came here for the spelunking

[davehowden]

£££ for me.

Edited December 5, 2013 by davehowden

[pkspeaker]

I wouldn't be so sure that " inspired by the discontentment towards the unprecedented levels of governmental corruption, the elective dictatorship in parliament, and doubts about the Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's expertise and competence to lead the country based on good governance and respect for the rule of law."

You should read Sondhi's wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limthongkul

his wiki page reads like an indictment of the entire PAD/yellow shirt/Suthep movement.. I mean just read all that crap that he's pulled! These finger-pointers are knee deep is shit themselves.

My problem with these liars is, ok sure Thailand has corruption, but the notion that the Shinawatra's are more corrupt than the douchebags that are pointing fingers at them is baseless. The only thing the Phua Thai group is guilty of is winning an overwhelming majority in every election; something the dems probably could have put a stop too if they had concentrated their energies into winning over voters in the north of the country instead of calling them stupid every election.

People saying Yingluck should just dissolve the house and quit and split(something the protesters reject anyways).. the problem is who the hell r ya gonna get? If not Yingluck-the softer, more conciliatory Phua Thai MP, then maybe she'll be replaced by a redshirt hardliner after the snap elections.. better to stick with her then roll the dice with an unknown that is almost certainly gonna make the situation worse.

"Thai PM Yingluck Shinawatra Says She Is Willing To Do ‘Anything,’ Even Resign, To End Protests"

Well strange thing is the protest is still on and all she is doing now is inflaming the situation with her impersonation of a flip flop.

Its good to see news out let that has a handle on the real situation in Thailand..........

"The protest movement in Thailand is not triggered by class differences as described by many foreign journalists. It is, in fact, inspired by the discontentment towards the unprecedented levels of governmental corruption, the elective dictatorship in parliament, and doubts about the Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's expertise and competence to lead the country based on good governance and respect for the rule of law. In 2001, many middle class Thais voted for Thaksin Shinawatra believing that he entered politics to contribute to the development of Thailand. However, it turned out that he came to power to exploit the country for his personal business interests. Thaksin’s era can best be described as the era of unprecedented nepotism and corruption. The self-exiled former prime minister has many corruption and political malpractice charges currently pending in the Thai courts, charges from which he has intentionally fled." http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/12/protesting-against-thailand-big-brother-20131227421913272.html

This article is succinct, eloquent, accurate and clearly explains why the anti government protests started and why they must continue in order to save Thailand and its people from a decent into a failed state. Suthep has taken what was already there, public discontentment and dissatisfaction with a corrupt government, but in a fractured disorganise structure and gave it unity and momentum.

"The Thais have a legitimate right to protest against a corrupt and unlawful government. It has done enough damage to our beloved country. We cannot allow them more time in power to cause more damage." Kasit Piromya

Edited December 5, 2013 by pkspeaker

[plachon]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

"Feudalism ended what 100 years ago."

I think 'feudalism' is alive and kicking in Thailand, it is part of Thainess, their culture. It's all part of the wais and the wherefores.

Liege lords abound in this country, particularly in rural areas where the peasants (farmers) are beholden to the local poo yai.

Banharn, Sanoh, Newin are typical examples.

And there are lots more poo yai and chao por in every district who can lord it over the rural populace as if sakdina never ended, which the TRT-Pheua Thai network have exploited to the hilt.

While the Thai version of feudalism may have weakened from a century ago it is still quite apparent in the Isaan moo baan. I was taken aback a few years ago when I startled an old lady collecting branches along the edge of a lane. I was with a Thai friend and when I asked her "Yai, what are you doing?", she went down on her knees and waied deeply, saying she was just a poor old lady who wanted some firewood and didn't mean any harm. I think she thought she was somehow caught in the act of something she shouldn't be doing. I was embarrassed by her humility and deference to strangers she took to be "poo yai", so tried to put her at ease, but it was clear that centuries of being a "poo noi" were weighing heavily on her shoulders and it would take a few generations or more to iron this out of the Isaan psyche.

She lived in a Redshirt village in Udon Thani and one can see the same deference of Reds to their unelected leaders, esp the Sor Sor who turn out to rallies and love the adulation they receive from the villagers. The pictures of Thaksin alongside the King in many houses speaks volumes for the state of demagoguery and idolatry alive and well in Isaan. This is the same with many Yellows too, but is not nearly so visible by villagers in the South, who expect a lot more from their leaders than the Isaan hordes, who are so easily bought and manipulated.....

[MobileContent]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

I guess if it will save lives then well worth it don't you think?

That's debatable - if governments collapsed every time some ex-DPM decided he's better and attempts a coup it would be chaos around the world. Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Edit : of course the downside of democracy is that sometimes you lose and this is a lesson Suthep should learn to take with grace

Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Just to point out, That statement would be valid in any part of the world but Thailand! Thais did not die in defence of Democracy in WW11.

Defense of Democracy during WW II? Why should the Thai's fight the Japanese to help the farang? It was very much a war between the English, Dutch, French and US forces against the Japanese. After WW2 the farang nations went back plundering the countries such as the French in Indochina, the Dutch in Indonesia, the English in Malaya and India (Pakistan and Bangladesh) included. After the French left Indochina, the US took over from the French and not only fight in Vietnam but also bombed Laos and Cambodia and they did nothing against the Pol Pot regime.

The Thai's did exactly what they had to do. Give the Japanese passage so they can invade Malaya from the South of Thailand and attack the British forces in Burma but they will stay as land of the free.

[MobileContent]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

"Feudalism ended what 100 years ago."

I think 'feudalism' is alive and kicking in Thailand, it is part of Thainess, their culture. It's all part of the wais and the wherefores.

Liege lords abound in this country, particularly in rural areas where the peasants (farmers) are beholden to the local poo yai.

Banharn, Sanoh, Newin are typical examples.

And there are lots more poo yai and chao por in every district who can lord it over the rural populace as if sakdina never ended, which the TRT-Pheua Thai network have exploited to the hilt.

While the Thai version of feudalism may have weakened from a century ago it is still quite apparent in the Isaan moo baan. I was taken aback a few years ago when I startled an old lady collecting branches along the edge of a lane. I was with a Thai friend and when I asked her "Yai, what are you doing?", she went down on her knees and waied deeply, saying she was just a poor old lady who wanted some firewood and didn't mean any harm. I think she thought she was somehow caught in the act of something she shouldn't be doing. I was embarrassed by her humility and deference to strangers she took to be "poo yai", so tried to put her at ease, but it was clear that centuries of being a "poo noi" were weighing heavily on her shoulders and it would take a few generations or more to iron this out of the Isaan psyche.

She lived in a Redshirt village in Udon Thani and one can see the same deference of Reds to their unelected leaders, esp the Sor Sor who turn out to rallies and love the adulation they receive from the villagers. The pictures of Thaksin alongside the King in many houses speaks volumes for the state of demagoguery and idolatry alive and well in Isaan. This is the same with many Yellows too, but is not nearly so visible by villagers in the South, who expect a lot more from their leaders than the Isaan hordes, who are so easily bought and manipulated.....

I have been living for the last 3 years over in Udon and Sakon Nakhon and never saw one person that actually had a picture of Thaksin next to the King and I have been to at least 20-30 villages and hundreds of homes.

What I do see is that they have a Buddha often next to the picture of the king or they just use as a calendar of the king.

But if you go to Trang you can see at many homes a picture of Chuan Lekpai because Trang is very proud of having a PM with brains come from their province but again they would not hang the picture next to the King.

Comparing Isaan with the South is not a good move as it includes the cash cows of Phuket, Krabi, Hatyai etc. You could compare Isaan to Pattani, Narathiwat, Yala, Southern Songkhla and many of those villages have been marginalized in the same way by Bangkok as in Isaan for most of the past 30 years as the Bangkok elite looked down on them. Suthep and the kamnan and poo yai's in the South do exactly the same when canvassing votes.

By the way Southern Muslim's love the king but their religion doesn't allow them to hang a picture of their king in the home and they normally only have a carpet hang on the wall from Mecca

And there are lots more poo yai and chao por in every district who can lord it over the rural populace as if sakdina never ended, which the TRT-Pheua Thai network have exploited to the hilt.

It is exactly in almost every village in Thailand. I have met many Poo Yai's that are actually honest and fair and of they don't deliver they are out.

BTW: IT is rude for someone to come to your land and take even branches without asking. As we build a house on 4 rai's of land we often have old poor people's coming to collect branches but they will always come first and ask if they can take it. Your question was confrontational by asking her what she is doing. I normally would offer them a glass of water but not come straight with a confrontational question what are you doing or would ask Yai, Sabai-dee or have some funny talk with her or even buy her some food.

[GeorgeO]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

No point in dissolving anything. State your case in writing and your demands (which Suthep is very vague about), the reasons and evidence of any claims of mal-pratice. Lets not bleating about rice scams and 2.2 trillion baht etc and come together around the table. They have nearly 2 years before the next election. Put a proposal to the people and let them truly decide. By the people I dont mean the 100,000+ who turned up for a jolly in Bangkok (dwindling daily). Lets ask the full electorate what they want.

"Lets ask the full electorate what they want."

I agree completely, a national-referendum is the best way to test and ratify any potentially-controversial constitutional-changes, nothing less than that is really acceptable. Voting things through, using one's temporary parliamentary-majority isn't enough, unless perhaps there is all-party support for something which clearly has wide national acceptance. Which I think happened under the Dems, with the adjustment to the number of MPs ?

This standard was set by the junta-appointed government of 2006-7, can an elected government of any colour accept a lower standard, than them ?

"No point in dissolving anything."

Beg to differ, the best way to defuse the current situation is for PM-Yingluck to keep her word, and dissolve Parliament to hold new elections as soon as possible. If that doesn't suit Suthep then tough ! It's the only way I can see to convince everyone else, that the Amnesty-Bill really is dead, rather than (as she's also said) merely "suspended". Time to match her words with actions !

And who knows what the new balance in Parliament might be ? At the very least, nobody would be dead/injured on-the-streets, for the duration of the campaigning.

Oh, except for former-DPM Chalerm, who's only got 26 days to go, until he's promised to decapitate himself !

Perhaps his full-retirement, and resignation (like Suthep) of his MP-seat would be an acceptable, if less entertaining, alternative ?

Quite remarkable how quiet Khun Chalerm is at the moment. No doubt he is busy drafting statements as to how, deep inside, he was always against the methods of the Shin clan, and how he would be very pleased to be involved in the process of constructing a new government (with whoever emerges as the new front runners)...!!

[plachon]

Thailand is trying to have a democracy for a couple decades now, something that it has never really had before - Feudalism ended what 100 years ago. no one said this was going to be easy.

"Feudalism ended what 100 years ago."

I think 'feudalism' is alive and kicking in Thailand, it is part of Thainess, their culture. It's all part of the wais and the wherefores.

Liege lords abound in this country, particularly in rural areas where the peasants (farmers) are beholden to the local poo yai.

Banharn, Sanoh, Newin are typical examples.

And there are lots more poo yai and chao por in every district who can lord it over the rural populace as if sakdina never ended, which the TRT-Pheua Thai network have exploited to the hilt.

While the Thai version of feudalism may have weakened from a century ago it is still quite apparent in the Isaan moo baan. I was taken aback a few years ago when I startled an old lady collecting branches along the edge of a lane. I was with a Thai friend and when I asked her "Yai, what are you doing?", she went down on her knees and waied deeply, saying she was just a poor old lady who wanted some firewood and didn't mean any harm. I think she thought she was somehow caught in the act of something she shouldn't be doing. I was embarrassed by her humility and deference to strangers she took to be "poo yai", so tried to put her at ease, but it was clear that centuries of being a "poo noi" were weighing heavily on her shoulders and it would take a few generations or more to iron this out of the Isaan psyche.

She lived in a Redshirt village in Udon Thani and one can see the same deference of Reds to their unelected leaders, esp the Sor Sor who turn out to rallies and love the adulation they receive from the villagers. The pictures of Thaksin alongside the King in many houses speaks volumes for the state of demagoguery and idolatry alive and well in Isaan. This is the same with many Yellows too, but is not nearly so visible by villagers in the South, who expect a lot more from their leaders than the Isaan hordes, who are so easily bought and manipulated.....

I have been living for the last 3 years over in Udon and Sakon Nakhon and never saw one person that actually had a picture of Thaksin next to the King and I have been to at least 20-30 villages and hundreds of homes.

What I do see is that they have a Buddha often next to the picture of the king or they just use as a calendar of the king.

But if you go to Trang you can see at many homes a picture of Chuan Lekpai because Trang is very proud of having a PM with brains come from their province but again they would not hang the picture next to the King.

Comparing Isaan with the South is not a good move as it includes the cash cows of Phuket, Krabi, Hatyai etc. You could compare Isaan to Pattani, Narathiwat, Yala, Southern Songkhla and many of those villages have been marginalized in the same way by Bangkok as in Isaan for most of the past 30 years as the Bangkok elite looked down on them. Suthep and the kamnan and poo yai's in the South do exactly the same when canvassing votes.

By the way Southern Muslim's love the king but their religion doesn't allow them to hang a picture of their king in the home and they normally only have a carpet hang on the wall from Mecca

And there are lots more poo yai and chao por in every district who can lord it over the rural populace as if sakdina never ended, which the TRT-Pheua Thai network have exploited to the hilt.

It is exactly in almost every village in Thailand. I have met many Poo Yai's that are actually honest and fair and of they don't deliver they are out.

BTW: IT is rude for someone to come to your land and take even branches without asking. As we build a house on 4 rai's of land we often have old poor people's coming to collect branches but they will always come first and ask if they can take it. Your question was confrontational by asking her what she is doing. I normally would offer them a glass of water but not come straight with a confrontational question what are you doing or would ask Yai, Sabai-dee or have some funny talk with her or even buy her some food.

Just for a bit of context - my visit was in early 2010 during the Red protests and there was Thaksin-themed pictures, posters, DVDs, etc, in nearly all the villages I visited in those two provinces. And yes, I did see some pictures of Thaksin hanging in houses, although admittedly not always near and rarely above the king's picture or poster. At the time, there was a palpable sense that the protests were going to bring Thaksin home and he was going to save them from their debt and other economic woes. Many were also watching the Red TV channel, Truth Today, and he was talking nightly on that from Dubai, goading them to rise up and saying he'd reward them when they took the country back from the Democrats. I'm sure you've seen all the YouTube clips of his incendiary speeches. Every morning, the headman would switch on the Red radio station for all the village to hear (no matter what the villagers preferences), the DJs would play idolatry songs about Thaksin, including the subtle "Rak Thaksin".

I don't think there has ever been idol worship on the same scale of any other politician, and definitely not of Chuan, even in his hometown of Trang. I don't know the South well and cannot give any personal insights about the psychology of southerners, whether Muslim or Buddhist, but sense that even in the strong Democrat heartlands, political difference is tolerated more than it was in the Red villages of Udon Thani during 2010, when villagers who did not worship Thaksin and perhaps, sympathised with the Yellow cause were afraid to express their views in public. Hence, I am not surprised to see the backlash against the Shinawatra clan now, even reportedly in some Northeastern towns like Khon Kaen, Ubon and Mahasarakham. People have been scared to speak out in Isaan for too long, partly because of the tight control by the Pheua Thai network over local politics.

As for your idea that my question was confrontational, you are mistaken I am afraid. I was walking with a Thai friend along a lane going out the village and Yai was pulling branches out from under trees at the edge of the road. She was busy and to catch her attention, me or my friend (I can't remember who now) called over to her in a friendly tone "Yai, het yang?" This was a perfectly normal thing to say under the circumstances and non-confrontational in my opinion. It's like asking "Bai nai/sai?" to a total stranger - a common form of Isaan greeting. But she took fright for whatever reason and went down on her knees, as if to ask forgiveness. I suspect, but have no proof obviously, that she felt that she was in the presence of "poo yai" (in her view) and had been caught doing something she oughtn't too and went into the "poo noi" mode that Isaan people have been inculcated by centuries of Siamese domination to feel. I am glad to say that there are many signs that this automatic subordination of rural Isaan folk is breaking down as they become "cosmopolitan villagers", but it will take quite a bit lot longer to break free from that need to cling to the shirttails of a political patron for scraps from his table, as Thaksin has encouraged these past dozen years or so. It wasn't our village and there was no shop to buy her water or food, although I would happily have done so if it had been my land or my village, as I felt really bad about the way she reacted to a simple question.

[haroldcane]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

...Lets not bleating about rice scams and 2.2 trillion baht ...Lets ask the full electorate what they want.

well bleated like a good boy, but the 'body of all electors' seems to be hiding in dubious dubai & whispers what he wants only secretly to his beloved sister

i guess he wants the majority of the millions, billions & trillions

[MAJIC]

I guess that's means Yingluck will display another elegantly executed backflip and say she is willing to step down and dissolve the government again on Friday.

I guess if it will save lives then well worth it don't you think?

That's debatable - if governments collapsed every time some ex-DPM decided he's better and attempts a coup it would be chaos around the world. Democracy has been fought for with millions of lives and it's something that should be cherished and defended.

Edit : of course the downside of democracy is that sometimes you lose and this is a lesson Suthep should learn to take with grace

Edit : of course the downside of democracy is that sometimes you lose and this is a lesson Suthep should learn to take with grace

Well let's see Thaksin go first on that one, eh! Had Thaksin heeded your advice,we would not see the protesters on the streets,and the Country in Turmoil,on the edge of disaster,looks like you need to study a fair bit of Thai Politics and Political History!