Protesters demand that police take responsibility for Ramkhamhaeng deaths

[webfact]

Protesters demand that police take responsibility for Ramkhamhaeng deaths
BUDSARAKHAM SINLAPALAVAN
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- DURING THEIR symbolic move to "take over" the Royal Thai Police Headquarters yesterday, anti-government protesters submitted a letter to police calling on them to take responsibility for the deaths and injuries of Ramkhamhaeng University students in recent clashes with red shirts.

The anti-government protest led by the Students and People's Network for Thailand's Reform (STR) marched from the Nang Lerng intersection to the Royal Thai Police headquarters to call on police to take responsibility for the student casualties.

The protest was led by STR leader Utai Yodmanee and group adviser Nitithorn Lamlua, and included allies from the protest at Rajdamnoen Avenue led by Thaworn Senneam and Issara Somchai.

The leaders negotiated with police and called on them to open the gate of the headquarters, which was protected by barriers. At first, police did not agree, so security guards tried to open the gate. Finally, police allowed protesters to enter the Royal Thai Police headquarters but the protesters did not go in.

Thaworn, as a representative of the protesters, sent a letter via Pol Maj-General Montri Yimyaem after negotiations in which protesters demanded police investigate and take action related to the killings and injuries of Ramkhamhaeng University students during clashes with red-shirt protesters over the past weekend.

Thaworn said police should speed up these cases and complete the investigations within seven days.

The police chief should also tell officers to stop using violence against protesters, he said.

Pol Lt-Colonel Anchulee Theerawongpaisal, deputy national police spokeswoman, said police use sweet squadhad deployed female officers to the front lines because they had a softer approach than male officers, which helped to lower tensions.

Jeab, a female police officer who was among those who lined up to welcome the protesters, said she had been staying at the Royal Thai Police headquarters day and night since Sunday.

"I'm not afraid of the dangers posed by protesters, because I believe that we are all Thais so we won't harm each other," the policewoman said.

In a separate development, Public Health Minister Pradit Sinthawanarong said the total number of people injured in political incidents since Saturday was 285, while 19 people were still being treated at hospitals. Most of them suffered from tear-gas exposure, rubber-bullet wounds or chronic diseases. One severely injured person was shot in the chest and was being treated at Ramathibodi Hospital.


-- The Nation 2013-12-05

[jaidam]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

[wprime]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

Do you have evidence that the PM ordered it?

[bangkokheat]

"I'm not afraid of the dangers posed by protesters, because I believe that we are all Thais so we won't harm each other," the policewoman said.

i dont know whether to laugh or sigh in disbelief

[Thailand]

I guess if the protestors were not trying to illegally occupy government property then perhaps there would not have been any deaths?

Not saying they should not protest, but in the right way.Not condoning the cause of their deaths by shooting, simply pointing out they put themselves at risk.

Ultimately if the protestors had not been incited in to their actions by Suthep and entourage then they may be here today.

My sympathies to the families of the deceased.

[NongKhaiKid]

Take responsibility, in Thailand ! ? I hear the late Buddy Holly - " that'll be the day "

[Prbkk]

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

[HuaHinHarold]

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot?

Can you ratchet your hyperbole down about a dozen notches or so?

As for your "key issue", I thought the key issue for this thread was the issue brought up in OP, namely police inaction, which doesn't appear to be addressed anywhere in the above frothing.

[lemoncake]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

Do you have evidence that the PM ordered it?

No doubt Tarit does

But i guess if PM says i did not know, then it does mean she did not know

[lemoncake]

I guess if the protestors were not trying to illegally occupy government property then perhaps there would not have been any deaths?

Not saying they should not protest, but in the right way.Not condoning the cause of their deaths by shooting, simply pointing out they put themselves at risk.

Ultimately if the protestors had not been incited in to their actions by Suthep and entourage then they may be here today.

My sympathies to the families of the deceased.

Well actually students at university is not illegal

[Prbkk]

No, not hyberbolic. Have a look at these pictures and you will see why I make the comparison

http://pantip.com/topic/31321614

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot?

Can you ratchet your hyperbole down about a dozen notches or so?

As for your "key issue", I thought the key issue for this thread was the issue brought up in OP, namely police inaction, which doesn't appear to be addressed anywhere in the above frothing.

[jaidam]

No, not hyberbolic. Have a look at these pictures and you will see why I make the comparison

http://pantip.com/topic/31321614

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot?

Can you ratchet your hyperbole down about a dozen notches or so?

As for your "key issue", I thought the key issue for this thread was the issue brought up in OP, namely police inaction, which doesn't appear to be addressed anywhere in the above frothing.

It's just the lemon next to the pie.

Wait for tomorrow, when the progressives and students reclaim the country for the benefit of all citizens(even if some lack the cognitive faculties to appreciate what is happening).

[Prbkk]

Well, what you really mean is that it';s fine for jack-booted thugs to terrorise the community and bring the city to a standstill, in order to benefit a few ( who will stay well away from any direct confrontation). What's on the agenda for tomrrow? Taunting the Police with sewerage trucks, firebombs, pinpong bombs, slingshots? And then complain about the use of water cannons and a bit of purple dye. Defies belief . Amazing that the police are so tolerant.

No, not hyberbolic. Have a look at these pictures and you will see why I make the comparison

http://pantip.com/topic/31321614

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot?

Can you ratchet your hyperbole down about a dozen notches or so?

As for your "key issue", I thought the key issue for this thread was the issue brought up in OP, namely police inaction, which doesn't appear to be addressed anywhere in the above frothing.

It's just the lemon next to the pie.

Wait for tomorrow, when the progressives and students reclaim the country for the benefit of all citizens(even if some lack the cognitive faculties to appreciate what is happening).

[kurnell]

Take responsibility, in Thailand ! ? I hear the late Buddy Holly - " that'll be the day "

Yes, an adult concept in a country full of brats

[Curt1591]

Three words: "Mysterious Dark Figures"!

[LomSak27]

Yingluck accused of dodging responsibility over Ramkhamhaeng shootings

Oh my, and now the police need to assume responsibility, who next ?!

Santa Claus

Edited December 5, 2013 by LomSak27

[HuaHinHarold]

No, not hyberbolic. Have a look at these pictures and you will see why I make the comparison

http://pantip.com/topic/31321614

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot?

Can you ratchet your hyperbole down about a dozen notches or so?

As for your "key issue", I thought the key issue for this thread was the issue brought up in OP, namely police inaction, which doesn't appear to be addressed anywhere in the above frothing.

You do know that Pol Pot was considered responsible for the killing of two and half million Cambodians, right? That you chose such a hyperbolic exaggerated comparison speaks volumes.

Additionally, that you fail to address any of the on-topic issues mentioned in the OP says more.

[backtonormal]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

Are you halucinating. Had mushrooms for breakfast.

[DocN]

No, not hyberbolic. Have a look at these pictures and you will see why I make the comparison

http://pantip.com/topic/31321614

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot?

Can you ratchet your hyperbole down about a dozen notches or so?

As for your "key issue", I thought the key issue for this thread was the issue brought up in OP, namely police inaction, which doesn't appear to be addressed anywhere in the above frothing.

It's just the lemon next to the pie.

Wait for tomorrow, when the progressives and students reclaim the country for the benefit of all citizens(even if some lack the cognitive faculties to appreciate what is happening).

Progressing where?

The late 1930's?

[englishoak]

oh look more buck passing how totally unexpected.

[Curt1591]

No, not hyberbolic. Have a look at these pictures and you will see why I make the comparison

http://pantip.com/topic/31321614

Hyperbole, or not, those pictures must be Photoshopped!

[jdinasia]

I guess if the protestors were not trying to illegally occupy government property then perhaps there would not have been any deaths?

Not saying they should not protest, but in the right way.Not condoning the cause of their deaths by shooting, simply pointing out they put themselves at risk.

Ultimately if the protestors had not been incited in to their actions by Suthep and entourage then they may be here today.

My sympathies to the families of the deceased.

Again you get it totally wrong. The students at RU were not illegally occupying anything.

[jdinasia]

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students.

Exactly ---- Tell the same lie often enough and people will believe it. 2 students were attacked by reds earlier then the events you describe and get photos of. The University chancellor called on the police to do something about it 2 hours before all hell broke out. (in ThaiRath newspaper). Then the initial fight broke out between students and reds .... then the students went wild. When the reds started with hitting a female student getting food from the vendors near her school/residence because she was wearing a whistle on a thai flag lanyard the reds broke the peace. Then again they do quite simply have the earned reputation for being "jack booted thugs" as you say.

[Emptyset]

BBC's Jonathan Head reports on the incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgb9N9LW1Gg

[Ricardo]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

At the same time that the PM/DM and FM-Surapong were assuring everyone (including foreign governments) that the government would not be using force, the water-cannon & tear-gas-grenades & rubber-bullets were being used, plus there were clearly real-bullets being used at times, if the injuries reported by hospitals are to be believed.

How can PM-Yingluck possibly hope to dodge responsibility for this, the DSI & Tharit have shown that senior-politicians can be accused, based on the 2010-riots, and there will surely be no double-standards shown here ?

The failure of the police to keep the students and Red-Shirts apart, or come when called by the Rector of R.U., led to the escalation from a single attack on a female-student for the 'crime' of wearing a whistle round her neck, to the nasty confrontations later-on.

Odd that Jonathan Head didn't mention that initial attack, in his report.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Ricardo

[newcomer71]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

I guess you are a little confused.

There were no live round shoot by police against students in Ramkhamhaeng University.

They even complained that police did not come to help... So how Police could have shoot students, if they weren't there?

[edwardandtubs]

3 of the 4 dead are red shirts. Only one is a student. So why are the leaders of this student group not taking responsibility? Who killed the red shirts?

[Emptyset]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

At the same time that the PM/DM and FM-Surapong were assuring everyone (including foreign governments) that the government would not be using force, the water-cannon & tear-gas-grenades & rubber-bullets were being used, plus there were clearly real-bullets being used at times, if the injuries reported by hospitals are to be believed.

How can PM-Yingluck possibly hope to dodge responsibility for this, the DSI & Tharit have shown that senior-politicians can be accused, based on the 2010-riots, and there will surely be no double-standards shown here ?

The failure of the police to keep the students and Red-Shirts apart, or come when called by the Rector of R.U., led to the escalation from a single attack on a female-student for the 'crime' of wearing a whistle round her neck, to the nasty confrontations later-on.

Odd that Jonathan Head didn't mention that initial attack, in his report.

There's only so much you can fit into a 3 min news report. Besides which the incident you refer to happened in the few days leading up to Saturday's incident:

'Then one day, a red-shirt guard slapped a demonstrating female student in the face and got engaged in a heated dispute. Later, they found someone had destroyed the image of King Ramkhamhaeng, the emblem of RU, and suspected the red shirts were responsible.'

Not condoning the slapping of the female student, of course. But that should've been sorted out without violence. Apparently early on Saturday, two policemen went to discuss the police complaint with the students and this somehow developed into a scuffle. That must be the incident that jd refers to, as I haven't seen any other reported. Anyway, the student leaders had set up stage on the morning of that day, and I don't think they intended things to go as far as they did. But according to journalists who tweeted throughout the day from RU & its surrounds, some of the students had been drinking heavily from early on in the day, and that's possibly the main reason they kicked off in the way they did. No journalists that I know of saw any confrontation with red shirts on that same day before they started harassing and later attacking red shirts arriving at the stadium.

--

As for "At the same time that the PM/DM and FM-Surapong were assuring everyone (including foreign governments) that the government would not be using force, the water-cannon & tear-gas-grenades & rubber-bullets were being used..." - have any foreign governments or human rights organizations expressed any concerns over whether response was proportionate?

"We believe that the response of the Thai authorities has so far been restrained and proportionate," EU heads of mission in Thailand said in a statement.

And why assume it was the police using live rounds? Could've been anyone. 'A Reuters reporter saw a man in his early 20s fire three shots from a pistol in the direction of police protecting Government House. Protesters also threw dozens of petrol bombs.'

Edited December 5, 2013 by Emptyset

[Emptyset]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

I guess you are a little confused.

There were no live round shoot by police against students in Ramkhamhaeng University.

They even complained that police did not come to help... So how Police could have shoot students, if they weren't there?

According to the Bangkok Post report, they did come but they were unarmed and unable to get into the soi. I guess they did eventually manage to get into it though because this eyewitness testimony says the police arrived after two hours of continuous fighting and told everyone to calm down and go home: http://prachatai.com/english/node/3778

[Prbkk]

In fact, they were ilegally occupying the streets. Not only that, they were attacking people who were doing nothing more than using public transportation to get to a function. Your continued denial of their behaviour ( or justified in your view because a young woman may have been slapped) is very strange. Thugs are thugs, no matter te colour of the shirt or the uniform they are wearing

I guess if the protestors were not trying to illegally occupy government property then perhaps there would not have been any deaths?

Not saying they should not protest, but in the right way.Not condoning the cause of their deaths by shooting, simply pointing out they put themselves at risk.

Ultimately if the protestors had not been incited in to their actions by Suthep and entourage then they may be here today.

My sympathies to the families of the deceased.

Again you get it totally wrong. The students at RU were not illegally occupying anything.