The underpass fiasco

[grumpyoldman]

Was going through the Central intersection the other day at an extremely slow rate of speed and as I was the passenger had time to look at the scene.

Pretty surprised that 850 million baht, gets you Burmese laborers in the pit, with shovels........With all that money being spent they must be making huge wages.

Scoop by scoop out goes the dirt.

Also, not seeing any drainage. The cement thats going in, once underwater, do they think it's going to hold up? I mean, you mix cement WITH water, right?

Maybe we can start a Forum board over/under wager on date of completion, then date they have to start repairing. Or maybe thats the overall plan? Consistent bahts in the coffers on the fiasco?

[KarenBravo]

"Also, not seeing any drainage. The cement thats going in, once underwater, do they think it's going to hold up? I mean, you mix cement WITH water, right?"

How do you think concrete jetties and wharves are made?

[grumpyoldman]

"Also, not seeing any drainage. The cement thats going in, once underwater, do they think it's going to hold up? I mean, you mix cement WITH water, right?"

How do you think concrete jetties and wharves are made?

Jetty's where I come from aren't made of concrete

[KarenBravo]

There's a very good example of a concrete pier at Chalong and Rawai.

You should take a look.

[grumpyoldman]

There's a very good example of a concrete pier at Chalong and Rawai.

You should take a look.

O.K. I'll get right on that KB

[Felt 35]

At least it will help people drive faster and make a possibility for more deadly accidents.........and then a new study have to be done as to why that happen..........

[grumpyoldman]

I heard rumors that it will be a toll road a la expressways in BKK.

Anyone else hear this?

[KarenBravo]

Southbound, it'll get vehicles to the next set of lights quicker. These lights are where the road narrows.

Northbound, nice and quick to the construction of the underpass at Tesco-Lotus.

[andreandre]

Interesting.....Obviously a difference in different parts of the world about what a ''jetty'' is;

In NZ ,and Aus and probably other countries a jetty is a pier or small wharf used to moor smaller boats AFAIK

Other parts of the world including USA a jetty is the name for a breakwater type structure as in protecting an open beach from waves...

EDIT...You guys going on about no drainage and questionable construction methods are still.

The same company has built the same type underpasses all over T/land.

In Chiang mai alone i would say at a guess that there would be 6-8 all standing strong, not flooding, working very efficiently..no problems at all...

Its not rocket science, its a very easy build in fact....

PS i do realise that the tea money payments are probably larger on Phuket but the contractors have a very good reputation and do a lot of major works..they are not likely to ''do it wrong'' and jeopardise their future prospects.

Edited December 14, 2013 by andreandre

[Valentine]

Cannot see why some are yipping on about drainage as Central do not have a problem & their lower park must be about the same level. The southbound section which KB mentions should have been widened all the way through to just before Kajonkiat in order for the underpass to be more effective.

[NamKangMan]

Interesting.....Obviously a difference in different parts of the world about what a ''jetty'' is;

In NZ ,and Aus and probably other countries a jetty is a pier or small wharf used to moor smaller boats AFAIK

Other parts of the world including USA a jetty is the name for a breakwater type structure as in protecting an open beach from waves...

EDIT...You guys going on about no drainage and questionable construction methods are still.

The same company has built the same type underpasses all over T/land.

In Chiang mai alone i would say at a guess that there would be 6-8 all standing strong, not flooding, working very efficiently..no problems at all...

Its not rocket science, its a very easy build in fact....

PS i do realise that the tea money payments are probably larger on Phuket but the contractors have a very good reputation and do a lot of major works..they are not likely to ''do it wrong'' and jeopardise their future prospects.

"but the contractors have a very good reputation and do a lot of major works" given what you say could be true, there is the issue of town planning.

These guys are told to build, and they build, and probably do a good job. That doesn't mean they are building in the best place to benefit Phuket the most.

Edited December 14, 2013 by NamKangMan

[fiddlehead]

I poured a sidewalk for my brother in law more than 30 years ago.
About 30 minutes after the cement truck left, it started pouring down cats and dogs (heavy rain).
To this day, there is not a crack in that sidewalk, yet all his other sidewalks have cracks that were poured later.
I've also done some pours under water in places where you just couldn't remove the water.
I believe it's better for concrete to harden slower for a longer life.

[falkan]

they don't build to make it last a long time.. there is money to make if you build things that don't last a long time..

italian thai and the government boys are pretty tight..

[beechbum]

There's a very good example of a concrete pier at Chalong and Rawai.

You should take a look.

O.K. I'll get right on that KB

You really didn't think concrete could be used in water or just a piss take?

[andreandre]

Interesting.....Obviously a difference in different parts of the world about what a ''jetty'' is;

In NZ ,and Aus and probably other countries a jetty is a pier or small wharf used to moor smaller boats AFAIK

Other parts of the world including USA a jetty is the name for a breakwater type structure as in protecting an open beach from waves...

EDIT...You guys going on about no drainage and questionable construction methods are still.

The same company has built the same type underpasses all over T/land.

In Chiang mai alone i would say at a guess that there would be 6-8 all standing strong, not flooding, working very efficiently..no problems at all...

Its not rocket science, its a very easy build in fact....

PS i do realise that the tea money payments are probably larger on Phuket but the contractors have a very good reputation and do a lot of major works..they are not likely to ''do it wrong'' and jeopardise their future prospects.

"but the contractors have a very good reputation and do a lot of major works" given what you say could be true, there is the issue of town planning.

These guys are told to build, and they build, and probably do a good job. That doesn't mean they are building in the best place to benefit Phuket the most.

.You guys going on about no drainage and questionable construction methods

Your reply has absolutely no relevance to the post i replied to....why bother?

[andreandre]

Cannot see why some are yipping on about drainage as Central do not have a problem & their lower park must be about the same level. The southbound section which KB mentions should have been widened all the way through to just before Kajonkiat in order for the underpass to be more effective.

Just saw pics on PW of this underpass......

i just don't understand why it is only 3 lanes and a tight three lanes at that...4 lanes would have cost very little more..This is never going to flow smoothly even now,with present traffic numbers, let alone in years to come with the inevitable increases..

.As i said a while ago in another thread, this underpass is a disaster waiting to happen..

The lights controlled 2 way /1 way system as needed according to traffic flow is ridiculous..we all see how much notice is taken of red lights every where.

The biggest issue is that when a major accident occurs on this underpass, because it is not a divided highway , the road will be quickly blocked both directions, first by the vehicles involved in the crash..2nd by the natural flow on effect of all the traffic still flowing both directions..the EMS has no way at all of getting to the scene...truely mindboggling!!!

Once all these vehicles are within the underpass there are no exits off it also, so after an accident ,you will be stuck there for hours and hours.

Edited December 16, 2013 by andreandre

[durianfan]

We've been here 4 months and have seen almost no progress of the underpass. At this rate it will be completed towards the end of the next decade.

[andreandre]

We've been here 4 months and have seen almost no progress of the underpass. At this rate it will be completed towards the end of the next decade.

Nothing unusual in lack of progress on any project on Phuket..thats the way it is...

Anyway apparently its back on track and is 55 percent complete and should be finished by October next year.....thats only 10 more months.....

of course, by the time this is nearing completion, the Tesco one will still be at least six months after that..happy travels for those that use this highway.

PS..to borrow from valentines great expression..for the ''yippers'' who post doom and gloom about the drainage system , or rather their lack of understanding of such...GOM who saw no drainage going in........take a look at the pics on the PW site...very clearly shows a series of evenly spaced, large rectangular drainage holes in the road base..as is usual,...as one would expect to have..even on Phuket.

[stevenl]

If I recall correctly it should be opened already at the beginning of 2014 (March or so I think), completed by the end of 2014.

[andreandre]

If I recall correctly it should be opened already at the beginning of 2014 (March or so I think), completed by the end of 2014.

As i said;

is 55 percent complete and should be finished by October next year..

[Valentine]

Cannot see why some are yipping on about drainage as Central do not have a problem & their lower park must be about the same level. The southbound section which KB mentions should have been widened all the way through to just before Kajonkiat in order for the underpass to be more effective.

Just saw pics on PW of this underpass......

i just don't understand why it is only 3 lanes and a tight three lanes at that...4 lanes would have cost very little more..This is never going to flow smoothly even now,with present traffic numbers, let alone in years to come with the inevitable increases..

.As i said a while ago in another thread, this underpass is a disaster waiting to happen..

The lights controlled 2 way /1 way system as needed according to traffic flow is ridiculous..we all see how much notice is taken of red lights every where.

The biggest issue is that when a major accident occurs on this underpass, because it is not a divided highway , the road will be quickly blocked both directions, first by the vehicles involved in the crash..2nd by the natural flow on effect of all the traffic still flowing both directions..the EMS has no way at all of getting to the scene...truely mindboggling!!!

Once all these vehicles are within the underpass there are no exits off it also, so after an accident ,you will be stuck there for hours and hours.

I too never understood only 3 lanes but perhaps there is some engineering restriction or might simply be that if they made it 4 lanes then there would have been even more disruption to traffic during construction. Certainly a very clear lack of foresight when looking at future traffic numbers through one of the busiest intersections on the island.

The other point is that even if they do manage to move traffic through there quickly then you come on to the Chao Fa West bottleneck.

[andreandre]

Cannot see why some are yipping on about drainage as Central do not have a problem & their lower park must be about the same level. The southbound section which KB mentions should have been widened all the way through to just before Kajonkiat in order for the underpass to be more effective.

Just saw pics on PW of this underpass......

i just don't understand why it is only 3 lanes and a tight three lanes at that...4 lanes would have cost very little more..This is never going to flow smoothly even now,with present traffic numbers, let alone in years to come with the inevitable increases..

.As i said a while ago in another thread, this underpass is a disaster waiting to happen..

The lights controlled 2 way /1 way system as needed according to traffic flow is ridiculous..we all see how much notice is taken of red lights every where.

The biggest issue is that when a major accident occurs on this underpass, because it is not a divided highway , the road will be quickly blocked both directions, first by the vehicles involved in the crash..2nd by the natural flow on effect of all the traffic still flowing both directions..the EMS has no way at all of getting to the scene...truely mindboggling!!!

Once all these vehicles are within the underpass there are no exits off it also, so after an accident ,you will be stuck there for hours and hours.

I too never understood only 3 lanes but perhaps there is some engineering restriction or might simply be that if they made it 4 lanes then there would have been even more disruption to traffic during construction. Certainly a very clear lack of foresight when looking at future traffic numbers through one of the busiest intersections on the island.

The other point is that even if they do manage to move traffic through there quickly then you come on to the Chao Fa West bottleneck.

Certainly a very clear lack of foresight when looking at future traffic numbers through one of the busiest intersections on the island.

Yes ,for sure...totally illogical and i believe that when it does open next year that the time to transit the actual underpass will still be similar to what it was pre underpass, because of increased traffic numbers and the ridiculous bottle neck situation created by virtue of having only one lane at different times of day.

This as well as the Chao fa west bottleneck you mention is just so self defeating....

All the money and inconvenience for what?

I really struggle to see any real benefit resulting from this fiasco.

"Fiasco" was used by OP , but was only fiasco in his mind...the drainage is actually there, and by virtue of the company contracted to build it, i believe the quality will be there also,which were his concerns.

IMO the biggest fiasco is as posted by valentine and myself..the inefficiency of the finished product, and moreso from my POV the probabilty of it creating a very dangerous situation out of any crashes that will occur there, as i posted earlier ie lack of access.

These are concerns that i am very surprised that any frequent users of this road are not voicing...

Edited December 17, 2013 by andreandre

[phuketsub]

Cannot see why some are yipping on about drainage as Central do not have a problem & their lower park must be about the same level. The southbound section which KB mentions should have been widened all the way through to just before Kajonkiat in order for the underpass to be more effective.

Just saw pics on PW of this underpass......

i just don't understand why it is only 3 lanes and a tight three lanes at that...4 lanes would have cost very little more..This is never going to flow smoothly even now,with present traffic numbers, let alone in years to come with the inevitable increases..

.As i said a while ago in another thread, this underpass is a disaster waiting to happen..

The lights controlled 2 way /1 way system as needed according to traffic flow is ridiculous..we all see how much notice is taken of red lights every where.

The biggest issue is that when a major accident occurs on this underpass, because it is not a divided highway , the road will be quickly blocked both directions, first by the vehicles involved in the crash..2nd by the natural flow on effect of all the traffic still flowing both directions..the EMS has no way at all of getting to the scene...truely mindboggling!!!

Once all these vehicles are within the underpass there are no exits off it also, so after an accident ,you will be stuck there for hours and hours.

I too never understood only 3 lanes but perhaps there is some engineering restriction or might simply be that if they made it 4 lanes then there would have been even more disruption to traffic during construction. Certainly a very clear lack of foresight when looking at future traffic numbers through one of the busiest intersections on the island.

The other point is that even if they do manage to move traffic through there quickly then you come on to the Chao Fa West bottleneck.

I could not agree more with the last sentence.

In fact, the work across the street at the site of the old ThaiNaan and other Central projects coming is another element that apparently had no bearing on the project design. I truly pity the parents of children who go to school in the area, especially those at Wichitsongram School.

Kids at Wichitsongram School will spend their entire primary school experience only having known horrific traffic jams; maybe that will fare them well if they ever move to Bangkok.

Phuket is turning into Bangkok: traffic gridlock, graffiti -- hopes of maintaining what is left of its once incredible natural beauty are almost nil because nobody cares. Most residents of the island have less respect for the environment than male "actors" on the set of a gangbang movie do for the latest wench thrown before them.

The kids here can't even speak Southern Thai anymore, let alone the unique Phuket dialect.

The underpass may help East-West traffic for a spell, but it won't last long, because the overall trend in undoubtedly towards widescale gridlock. When this particular project is complete, we'll be able to enjoy the time we spend caught traffic in that area not as we do now, but underground in a tunnel.

[andreandre]

Cannot see why some are yipping on about drainage as Central do not have a problem & their lower park must be about the same level. The southbound section which KB mentions should have been widened all the way through to just before Kajonkiat in order for the underpass to be more effective.

Just saw pics on PW of this underpass......

i just don't understand why it is only 3 lanes and a tight three lanes at that...4 lanes would have cost very little more..This is never going to flow smoothly even now,with present traffic numbers, let alone in years to come with the inevitable increases..

.As i said a while ago in another thread, this underpass is a disaster waiting to happen..

The lights controlled 2 way /1 way system as needed according to traffic flow is ridiculous..we all see how much notice is taken of red lights every where.

The biggest issue is that when a major accident occurs on this underpass, because it is not a divided highway , the road will be quickly blocked both directions, first by the vehicles involved in the crash..2nd by the natural flow on effect of all the traffic still flowing both directions..the EMS has no way at all of getting to the scene...truely mindboggling!!!

Once all these vehicles are within the underpass there are no exits off it also, so after an accident ,you will be stuck there for hours and hours.

I too never understood only 3 lanes but perhaps there is some engineering restriction or might simply be that if they made it 4 lanes then there would have been even more disruption to traffic during construction. Certainly a very clear lack of foresight when looking at future traffic numbers through one of the busiest intersections on the island.

The other point is that even if they do manage to move traffic through there quickly then you come on to the Chao Fa West bottleneck.

I could not agree more with the last sentence.

In fact, the work across the street at the site of the old ThaiNaan and other Central projects coming is another element that apparently had no bearing on the project design. I truly pity the parents of children who go to school in the area, especially those at Wichitsongram School.

Kids at Wichitsongram School will spend their entire primary school experience only having known horrific traffic jams; maybe that will fare them well if they ever move to Bangkok.

Phuket is turning into Bangkok: traffic gridlock, graffiti -- hopes of maintaining what is left of its once incredible natural beauty are almost nil because nobody cares. Most residents of the island have less respect for the environment than male "actors" on the set of a gangbang movie do for the latest wench thrown before them.

The kids here can't even speak Southern Thai anymore, let alone the unique Phuket dialect.

The underpass may help East-West traffic for a spell, but it won't last long, because the overall trend in undoubtedly towards widescale gridlock. When this particular project is complete, we'll be able to enjoy the time we spend caught traffic in that area not as we do now, but underground in a tunnel.

Even the east-West traffic is not going to benefit too much right from the start..you've still got full traffic lights as before to handle traffic turning right coming from both directions as well as north and South bound traffic that are not using the underpass..

The only occasion you will be enjoying any time underground in a tunnel is if you are one of about 12-15 cars max that would be under the actual East-West cross over road at any time..

[glassdude007]

There's a very good example of a concrete pier at Chalong and Rawai.

You should take a look.

I've seen this process done many times in my old New England home......

Either buy pile driving cement post into the earth or

They fill big round pipe (dry inside) with steel rods and cement that are anchored to the bottom.

Then as the cement inside slowly dries they remove the metal pipes (in most countries)

then the build the pier on these post or pilings

And yes cement is not used in a Jetty system ...

Come on KB Daaaaaaa ??

Merry Christmas & Happy New year

duude

[LivinginKata]

Time to weed out the off topic trolls. Posts removed.

[madmitch]

So, the underpass is due to open this month. I hope to be driving through the tunnel on March 31st, though I think I might need a tractor to do so. Anyone have any news?

[steelepulse]

According to the governor, North South should be open " just after Songkran". http://www.thephuketnews.com/relief-to-phuket-traffic-infrastructure-on-the-way-assures-governor-45131.php

[durianfan]

I still see very little progress being made. I suspect it will still be over a year before that mess is functional.

I love this completely illogical quote:

The Governor went on to note that the north-south lanes of the B670 million underpass under construction in front of Central Festival, are expected to be functional "after the Songkran holiday" (April 13).

“The east-west lanes should be open to traffic by October,” he said

I guess "functional" and "open to traffic" are completely different?

Edited March 15, 2014 by durianfan

[jocko]

Phuket will never sort out it's traffic problems without good public transport.

This has been a problem in many parts of the world by the time you build the roads the traffic is just waiting to fill it up.

I saw this happening on the London ring rd the the M25 they opened stages of it when they were completed and by the time all the bits were joined up in to a circle it was full they are still making it wider now all these years later

You can't keep up with increase.