Is Thailand A Failed State?

[phetaroi]

Given that Thailand is frequently the first or second largest exporter of rice in the world and about number 4 in rubber, its hard to see that failed state applies. You could even argue that the 52 or so parties that will contest the next election is a better representation of the country than the 2 or three that usually compete in Australia, US, UK, and many other places. Is the baht doing badly at present ? surprisingly - no.

Actually, this just came over the wire: "BPbreakingnews: Baht drops to lowest since June 2010", and before the 1997 devaluation it was 25B/US$, now it is back down to 30B/US$

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com.

Has that changed?

All I can tell you is that this is posted from a moderators post from this website.

[phetaroi]

@thailiketoo -- the quote you questioned was posted by "admin" in the daily news summary for today. Post # 41.

Edited December 30, 2013 by phetaroi

[thailiketoo]

@thailiketoo -- the quote you questioned was posted by "admin" in the daily news summary for today.

Unless you are admin I don't think you can post it. I may be wrong or you may be admin? Or maybe the policy has changed. But to debate a Bangkok post article with only you being able to post from the BP seems rather unfair.

[phetaroi]

No, I am not admin. I was not aware that something posted by admin could not be noted by a regular poster.

[thailiketoo]

No, I am not admin. I was not aware that something posted by admin could not be noted by a regular poster.

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. I guess you can say good bye to your post.

[manly100]

That the people can demonstrate is a sign in itself of a healthy democracy. As for the peoples civil rights, the most important civil right is the right to live. Now how quick do you think the powers that be will use the military to remove a democratically elected government again? The holders of power learnt a hard lesson that they are still paying for. Its a fine future for Thailand. Think birth rates and geo politics. They've never had it so good.

[phetaroi]

No, I am not admin. I was not aware that something posted by admin could not be noted by a regular poster.

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. I guess you can say good bye to your post.

That's fine. I actually reported myself. I'm a rule follower. :-)

[phetaroi]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

[MJP]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

[phetaroi]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

So we should hope that it plummets even further...perhaps down to 10 baht/US$?

[MJP]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

So we should hope that it plummets even further...perhaps down to 10 baht/US$?

No a plummet too far too fast drives the price of imported raw materials up too fast and this is quite destabilising.

I don't know what the optimum level should really be. The Klingon knows a lot more about all this stuff.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

So we should hope that it plummets even further...perhaps down to 10 baht/US$?

That wouldn't be a plummet in the baht. It would be a surge.

Th

[Soutpeel]

Failed state - no,

seriously disfunctional - yes

[MJP]

Failed state - no, seriously disfunctional - yes

Same as that.

Just had the ex-wife here in tears. They've managed to f-"k it all up!

Again!

Said "Wot did you people do with the last $100,000?!! "

Boo hoo . . . sister spend all. Franchii.

Oh well. I'll see you again in another 10-15 years. I'll talk to the kids over Skype. Good luck!

[Crossy]

OK people regarding Bangkok Post, the rule is pretty clear:-

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them. Quotes from and links to Phuketwan are also not allowed and will also be removed. In special cases forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources.

My bold, if Admin quote from a BP article / feed no reason why memebrs should not quote that Admin post so long as no further BP quotes are included.

[thailiketoo]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

So we should hope that it plummets even further...perhaps down to 10 baht/US$?

That wouldn't be a plummet in the baht. It would be a surge.

Th

If the baht was at 10 to the dollar Thailand can buy New Jersey. If the baht is at 60 to the dollar New Jersey can buy Thailand. One would think one should know the difference before posting that Thailand is a failed state. Just saying.....

[Soutpeel]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

So we should hope that it plummets even further...perhaps down to 10 baht/US$?

That wouldn't be a plummet in the baht. It would be a surge.

Th

If the baht was at 10 to the dollar Thailand can buy New Jersey. If the baht is at 60 to the dollar New Jersey can buy Thailand. One would think one should know the difference before posting that Thailand is a failed state. Just saying.....

If it was 10 to the dollar one would expect to see a significant decrease in the number of farang retiree's and a significant increase in the number of farangs participating in thailands unique sport of balcony diving

[phetaroi]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

So we should hope that it plummets even further...perhaps down to 10 baht/US$?

That wouldn't be a plummet in the baht. It would be a surge.

Th

If the baht was at 10 to the dollar Thailand can buy New Jersey. If the baht is at 60 to the dollar New Jersey can buy Thailand. One would think one should know the difference before posting that Thailand is a failed state. Just saying.....

If it was 10 to the dollar one would expect to see a significant decrease in the number of farang retiree's and a significant increase in the number of farangs participating in thailands unique sport of balcony diving

First of all, I didn't say Thailand was a failed state. I suggested things that might lead one to believe that it is and asked for other people's opinion.

But you bring up the very point that, in my view, is your myopic viewpoint. I really don't give a crap about how the lower baht helps expats. I care about how the lower baht affects Thai people.

[Soutpeel]

Gee, I just noticed that Reuters has reported that, "The Thai baht plumbed its lowest in almost four years on Monday as a political crisis grew more intractable". Htat's almost back to what it was when the baht was devalued in 1997. So just how healthy is the Thai economy?

Very healthy. In fact it's what's needed in an export and tourism based economy.

So we should hope that it plummets even further...perhaps down to 10 baht/US$?

That wouldn't be a plummet in the baht. It would be a surge.

Th

If the baht was at 10 to the dollar Thailand can buy New Jersey. If the baht is at 60 to the dollar New Jersey can buy Thailand. One would think one should know the difference before posting that Thailand is a failed state. Just saying.....

If it was 10 to the dollar one would expect to see a significant decrease in the number of farang retiree's and a significant increase in the number of farangs participating in thailands unique sport of balcony diving

First of all, I didn't say Thailand was a failed state. I suggested things that might lead one to believe that it is and asked for other people's opinion.

But you bring up the very point that, in my view, is your myopic viewpoint. I really don't give a crap about how the lower baht helps expats. I care about how the lower baht affects Thai people.

How very noble of you, actually how the baht affects the long and short term tourists....directly affects the Thai people in so many ways, so you can't look at these things in isolation

Santa not bring you a sense of humour this year ?......my remarks were made tongue in cheek....so sorry I didn't insert a "smiley"

[dighambara]

That definition is broad enough to includ all of Euroope, Britain and the US.

A better question: Is a 'World Government' overdue..??

I suspect that if the human race doesn't organize and cooperate, we will destroy ourselves.

[simple1]

OP: Do a search on the Bangkok Post site for 'The 'crooks' in charge must step aside'. In the opinion piece it suggests Thailand is at high risk of becoming a crookocracy (a term coined by Juan Seve) or a semi-failed state. I guess some will have the view that Thailand has already reached that benchmark with some major projects such as the rice pledging scheme, 350-billion baht water management scheme and the 2.2 trillion baht funding for infrastructure.

[slipperylobster]

"Failed State" seems too broad in scope to define. The best I came up with was this list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index

I could not see Thailand in the top 50, so that speaks well enough. Does anybody actually believe that total bedlam and chaos/doom and gloom is the future of Thailand? The worst case may be a a temporary military takeover, to preserve the opportunity for new elections.

No, I do not see Thailand as being in the same category as Syria, Libya or Egypt.

Thailand is still wheeling and dealing, on the International level.

[thailiketoo]

OP: Do a search on the Bangkok Post site for 'The 'crooks' in charge must step aside'. In the opinion piece it suggests Thailand is at high risk of becoming a crookocracy (a term coined by Juan Seve) or a semi-failed state. I guess some will have the view that Thailand has already reached that benchmark with some major projects such as the rice pledging scheme, 350-billion baht water management scheme and the 2.2 trillion baht funding for infrastructure.

Not fair dinkum to start a topic that we can't discuss eh?

[simple1]

OP: Do a search on the Bangkok Post site for 'The 'crooks' in charge must step aside'. In the opinion piece it suggests Thailand is at high risk of becoming a crookocracy (a term coined by Juan Seve) or a semi-failed state. I guess some will have the view that Thailand has already reached that benchmark with some major projects such as the rice pledging scheme, 350-billion baht water management scheme and the 2.2 trillion baht funding for infrastructure.

Not fair dinkum to start a topic that we can't discuss eh?

So long as I have interpreted your comment accurately I understand you can discuss a matter reviewed in the Bangkok Post, so long as you do not provide a link or directly quote wording from the article - mods is this correct?

[thailiketoo]

OP: Do a search on the Bangkok Post site for 'The 'crooks' in charge must step aside'. In the opinion piece it suggests Thailand is at high risk of becoming a crookocracy (a term coined by Juan Seve) or a semi-failed state. I guess some will have the view that Thailand has already reached that benchmark with some major projects such as the rice pledging scheme, 350-billion baht water management scheme and the 2.2 trillion baht funding for infrastructure.

Not fair dinkum to start a topic that we can't discuss eh?

So long as I have interpreted your comment accurately I understand you can discuss a matter reviewed in the Bangkok Post, so long as you do not provide a link or directly quote wording from the article - mods is this correct?

I can or you can say the article says something it doesn't but neither of us can post the article or quotes from the article to verify or falsify claims made by the article. There in lies the problem.

To give you an idea I say the article was taking about the Dems and you can't post anything from the article to refute that. See what I mean?

[simple1]

OP: Do a search on the Bangkok Post site for 'The 'crooks' in charge must step aside'. In the opinion piece it suggests Thailand is at high risk of becoming a crookocracy (a term coined by Juan Seve) or a semi-failed state. I guess some will have the view that Thailand has already reached that benchmark with some major projects such as the rice pledging scheme, 350-billion baht water management scheme and the 2.2 trillion baht funding for infrastructure.

Not fair dinkum to start a topic that we can't discuss eh?

So long as I have interpreted your comment accurately I understand you can discuss a matter reviewed in the Bangkok Post, so long as you do not provide a link or directly quote wording from the article - mods is this correct?

I can or you can say the article says something it doesn't but neither of us can post the article or quotes from the article to verify or falsify claims made by the article. There in lies the problem.

To give you an idea I say the article was taking about the Dems and you can't post anything from the article to refute that. See what I mean?

Ok, how about a response that either agrees with or refutes that Thailand is a 'crookocracy' and in effect a semi failed State. I am not a subject matter expert on Thai politics and the economy, but from my limited knowledge has weaknesses in some of its leaders and institutions that are damaging to the people of Thailand. Hopefully in the coming years a leader will come to the forefront to push for and put in place the corrective policies with underpinning legislation that is enforced.

Edited January 1, 2014 by simple1

[NewlyMintedThai]

I think the correct term is "kleptocracy".

[simple1]

I think the correct term is "kleptocracy".

No, it's a new terminology that is used from time to time usually applied to institutions, an example

crookocracy (noun) : the selling of American Democracy to the highest bidder; engaging in partisan politics against the interest of citizens; elected officials neglecting, desires and security of the average citizen for the benefit of themselves, their party, special interest groups, big business, foreign interest and the rich.

http://nws.merriam-webster.com/opendictionary/newword_display_alpha.php?letter=Cr&last=110

[ABCer]

As the original poster, I wanted to wait at least 24 hours before responding to any of the posts.

First of all, some of you are jumping to the conclusion that I feel Thailand is a failed state. That's not my position. It is what I am questioning, and why I wanted to see the viewpoints of others. And, @Thaatheart, when I visited Thailand for a month each year, and then lived in Thailand for two years, I didn't discuss Thai politics. Now being back in the States, I have the luxury of being able to do so.

@Costas2008, here's my question for you. What is it you think the Thais are learning? To free themselves from corruption? Definitely not. If anything corruption gets a stronger and stronger hold on the country as each year passes. To desire democracy (whatever that is)? I would suggest that the only concept most Thais have about democracy is that it's only democracy when their side wins...which of course, is not democracy at all.

@Neversure: Good point about Thais seeing the Thai-way as the only good thing. Of course, that means there is little incentive for change.

@ABCer: How can you say that coups are "a normal state of affairs" if you also say that your country is a democracy? You can't have it both ways. (And I remind you, that I think coups in Thailand have often brought better governments than elections). And, you believe that "nobody obeys any laws anyways". It would seem to me that a relatively lawless society is one thing that defines a failed state. You say that, "Corruption is ingrained" and that virtually nothing will "weed it out". So it's hopeless to have an honest government that rules for the good of the people. Again, that would seem to me to be an ingredient of a failed state. And finally you said that, "Thailand has been failing so long that there is no visible end in sight", yet you say that Thailand is not a failed state. I just don't understand the ABC's of your post.

@Briggsy, yes, I know about all the many industrial estates...that primarily rely on foreign companies. This is a rediculous thread? Okay, I guess it's not as deep as so many of the threads that want to discuss things like bar girls and bar boys. Sorry to be so predestrian.

@Thaibeachlovers: Well, with that moniker I would guess you're living the good life in Thailand...one you could leave at anytime and return to your country...something Thai people cannot do. Having lived in Thailand myself, I would guess that right now you are living with a higher standard of living than the vast majority of Thais outside of major cities.

Again, I'm not saying Thailand is a failed state, but I am sincerely worried for its future. There are other countries that have virtually disintegrated...including right in Southeast Asia. It didn't take much to push over the facade of stability.

Dear phetaroi,

sorry you couldn't understand the ABC's of my post. I'll try again, but pay more attention to what I mean rather than meticulously pulling apart all the letters.

By 'coups here being a normal state of affairs' I mean that

- they are frequent;

- they are bloodless;

- they are accepted in a matter of fact way;

- they end up rather quickly;

- they do not disrupt people's life;

- they always revert to democratically elected Gov't.

Democratic society starts and finishes with respect and abiding by the Laws. Thais do not have either.

But this does not make Thailand a 'failed state'. It functions quite smoothly on different lubricants.

Your talk about 'honest Gov't that rules for the good of the people' clearly demonstrates your idealism.

With all due respect - idealists are IMHO the greatest danger to any society. We all know where leads the road paved by best intentions.

Which does not deny them my personal respects.

Please, understand that we have different criteria for a 'failed state'.

From this point Thailand has been 'failing' for centuries, yet it has not 'failed'.

It just functions by mechanisms different from idealistic and I see no end to this fact.

Cheers! Don't be so serious. Have a Happy New Year and do not expect the Spanish Inquisition.

P.S. There is nothing new I said here that you couldn't read from my post in the first case. Just do not concentrate on alphabet so much.

[Jackson86]

Everyone's definition of a failed state is different. Hard to say.