Investigations show shot that killed Thai police fired from gate : CAPO

[Emptyset]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Not necessarily. CAPO do not say who fired the shot, only where it came from.

Now who has the most to benefit from the protests turning violent? And, if one wanted to stir things up a bit, the best way to control the situatation is to put another group in place to do the job - not arming the protesters. Plausible deniability and proof positive that the protesters were unarmed as well as a propaganda opportunity to claim the government were responsible.

So you're saying that the government put people in with the protesters to shoot at police? It isn't totally impossible. Yet I feel it's less likely than simply believing that a group who've already amply demonstrated their capacity for violence would have one or two protesters that carry hand guns, just, to repeat myself, like PAD in 08.

It's a bit like the red shirts and the men in black. Now a lot of peaceful red shirts sitting at the stage might not have supported what the men in black were up to, and indeed, have believed they were provocateurs placed there by the military. Yet, those that fought the military during the last days of the violence in 2010, even though they may not have been armed with any more than slight shots and molotovs, I believe most of them knew the men in black were there and there abouts firing off grenades and taking pot shots at the military.

So if they didn't support the men in black, question is, why keep fighting with them? Of course they supported them and many thought the men in black were heroes for helping them fight the military. I'm not judging them for this, just drawing a comparison. It's the same with this group. If a guy with them started popping off live rounds at the cops, if they were so concerned about the cops getting shot, well, couldn't they have just stopped their attempt to break into the stadium?

Of course, I still don't think that would justify police shooting Wasu, presuming he was unarmed. It still needs to be properly investigated and appropriate action taken. It certainly seems that some police behaved totally inappropriately in the late afternoon, especially given their action on the vans etc. Yet protesters should also look at their own role in events.

As for who benefits? Generally those on the protest side benefit if security forces are provoked into cracking down. The only reason Thaksin's men in black strategy didn't work in 2010 was because of Abhisit's elite backing and because they were able to convince many of the Bangkok middle class that it was in fact the men in black themselves killing red shirts, not the military. Of course, it wasn't. The men in black were there to provoke, not kill. Yet the idea was there, provoke the army into killing civilians, and you win the fight. Same happened in 1992. Provocateurs were sent by someone who stood to benefit if the protesters won. He wasn't even present at the protests. Hence, you needn't believe Suthep is behind it if there are violent provocateurs, could be someone totally behind the scenes, whose name we aren't even familiar with.

And I'm not even saying there are provocateurs, but I believe the attempt to provoke a crackdown is definitely something people behind the protests would be thinking about. How else could they possibly get what they want?

Let's look again at what Sondhi said about his 06 PAD protests:

'I remember vividly that when there was [street protest] against Thaksin, I always had people calling me: "Khun Sondhi, could you move things a little bit forward, have a little confrontation, let us see a little blood?"

Were these military people making the calls?

[Nods]. Or [Prime Minister] Surayud Chulanont ... I said no.

So did the Privy Council play any role in organizing the protests you often led?

No, no, not at all. They wanted to kick out Thaksin but they didn't have the people behind them. That's why they mumbled and grumbled behind Thaksin's back. And as time went by, they began to see their political base waning.

Whom are we talking about precisely?

I would call them the old feudalists. The feudal elite, people like the [Kasikorn Bank founders] Lamsam family, those types. They were beginning to see their power base decline slowly. When they saw Thaksin start intervening in areas that no politician [before] dared to intervene in, which included military reshuffles, they got even more scared.'

Now these protests are backed by people from much the same social strata and intention. The importance of such networks operating behind the scenes can be overstressed. I don't doubt that people have strong sentiments and valid reasons for supporting these protests. But the attempt to manipulate events by the group described by the red shirts as the 'amaat' is real. Worth reading Sondhi's full interview where he gives rather candid insight into what was going on: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

This is why one of his former elite backers tried to have him whacked in 09. He's a loudmouth and that's why they stopped supporting him and his group. Suthep comes along... not exactly clean but able to get a crowd going and to mobilize Democrat support. Exactly what they were waiting for. Then the government really screws things up with the attempted amnesty bill. A perfect storm...

The idea that the protesters benefit from any violence - especially in this case when they most probably have tacit military backing - is also the reason that police have been instructed to take a softer approach than they'd apparently like: 'The police officers were quite frustrated. They said that they were under strict orders not to use any force against the protesters: “It’s not that we cannot stop them, we are just not allowed to even use batons against them when they attack us”. They also said that if they used force, they feared that the military could use this as a reason to side with the protesters.'

Obviously this has resulted in some humiliating experiences like the above, and the stadium incident where some police were actually rounded up by protesters and fenced in. They were 'kettled' to use UK police terminology by the protesters. I think that's what resulted in incidents like the one where police smashed up vans. Humiliation. Loss of face. However, I'd say that police have generally responded with proportionate force, which of course is what they should be doing at all times. Government shouldn't even have to instruct them to use measured and appropriate responses to protests.

[Emptyset]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

The picture shows clearly rifles:

But Abdul says: but insisted that police were only armed with batons, shields, tear gas and rubber bullets.

So it clearly another lie.

And if someone still have doubts:

as Wasu's body was not sent to the Police Hospital for an autopsy.

He states they had rubber bullets, do you think they were going to throw them!

you must have been a great student

FYI rubber bullets are NOT fired from assault rifles like those in the picture

I said on another thread that Manopy's pictures of police snipers are old ones from an unrelated incident. Was hoping he'd see it and remove the pictures or clarify them but I guess he didn't see it.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[binjalin]

it is a disgrace to this serving Police Officer that any poster would twist his tragic death for political 'brownie points' he died from a shot trying to do his duty and it does not take a genius to work out the Police did not shoot him to 'stir up' things

he was one of them

so let's get away from the 'Elvis is alive' and 'Aliens are here' rubbish and back to reality? show some respect RIP

[Emptyset]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

No one.

Why would you trust either side? As I say above, you go with the evidence. And Surapong didn't say anything about this case, that I can remember did he? I can't really remember too many egregious lies coming from him in the past few weeks, tbh. No doubt there have been some porkies. But nothing that stands out as much as, say, insisting that 200,000 or so people are actually 6 million and that this has been proven by 'academics'. Chalerm on the other hand has come out with loads of his typical nonsensical drivel, yes, but he isn't CAPO.

The statement CAPO initially made about the case was just plain dumb though. I'm not saying Adun necessarily more honest than the rest, although it certainly appears that way. Even Veera in the Post has praised his honesty. But regardless he's definitely smarter than the other people who've spoken from the Government side. He waited until they'd compiled evidence before making a statement. Took journalists up to the roof of the Labour Ministry building to prove that police couldn't have shot and killed Narong from up there. And admitted that police did in fact break the van windows. It was obviously them and Adun must've realized it did nothing for police credibility to deny the obvious. Top marks to Adun, shame about the rest of them...

This btw is right in the direction that police firing from the Labour Ministry would've had to fire from:

Compare with the map:

The building on the left in the first picture is the white building to the right of the Labour Ministry building police were stationed in on the map. As you can see, it's actually higher than the top of the Labour Ministry building (three storey) and blocks the direction they would've had to fire in.

Anyone who still believes police could've done it from there is... well... too far gone to see reason.

So what is your point,? that the Police could have done it from the Gate then . Do you recall what happened to Pornthip the forensic scientist, pushed out for showing the truth about lots of Government lies? Funny about coincidences that this comes out after the Cops got caught red faced again telling Porkies

Protesters were attacking the stadium from the Gate, so how could police have done it? Only way they could have done it is by disguising themselves as protesters. Possible, but like I said in another reply, it's far fetched. Occam's razor, for me I'm afraid. Some of the guys in this hardcore group are likely to own and be willing to use pistols. Walter PPKs are popular amongs technical school students and chambered in .32.

I don't see how it's a coincidence. Police were asked to explain. Idiots like Chalerm thought the best thing to do was lie about it. But Adun was smarter and waited until he had evidence which proved that police couldn't have shot Narong from the top of the Ministry.

Yes, I remember Pornthip bravely exposing police and government lies in 2004. IIRC wasn't she also ridiculed for suggesting in 2010 that the grenade that killed a multicolour protester at Silom was fired from inside Chulalongkorn hospital? She was probably wrong about that. Evidence suggests it was fired by Seh Daeng's group from inside Lumpini. But that's another story, as is her defense of the bomb detector which was just an empty box with no working components. Not of much, if any, relevance to this thread.

[klauskunkel]

it is a disgrace to this serving Police Officer that any poster would twist his tragic death for political 'brownie points' he died from a shot trying to do his duty and it does not take a genius to work out the Police did not shoot him to 'stir up' things

he was one of them

so let's get away from the 'Elvis is alive' and 'Aliens are here' rubbish and back to reality? show some respect RIP

While I essentially agree with your post about the PO's death, I do not necessarily believe that "being one of them" really counts as much for the BiB, i.e. the high ranking ones. Just recall the incident with Ferrari Boy last year, he of Red Bull lineage who killed a PO driving drunk and coked-out: hours after the incident we hear about a Police Colonel advising the spoiled brat, not arresting him...

Or, Chalerm's boy, murdering a PO and getting away, no problem... or, or, or, ...ad nauseam!

On the other hand "being one of them" helps a lot once they murdered, extorted, raped a civilian...

Edited January 4, 2014 by klauskunkel

[smedly]

Look it's been well established that police have lied through their teeth about every aspect of these shootings

IMO everything in the OP statement is a lie and is fabricated - how - where - what - with - when - position - direction - location - evidence - witness statements ....................................all of it lies

There is no point in discussing this further as nothing the police or authorities say can be believed and not just about this case but in general - they are prolific liars

Edited January 4, 2014 by smedly

[binjalin]

it is a disgrace to this serving Police Officer that any poster would twist his tragic death for political 'brownie points' he died from a shot trying to do his duty and it does not take a genius to work out the Police did not shoot him to 'stir up' things

he was one of them

so let's get away from the 'Elvis is alive' and 'Aliens are here' rubbish and back to reality? show some respect RIP

While I essentially agree with your post about the PO's death, I do not necessarily believe that "being one of them" really counts as much for the BiB, i.e. the high ranking ones. Just recall the incident with Ferrari Boy last year, he of Red Bull lineage who killed a PO driving drunk and coked-out: hours after the incident we hear about a Police Colonel advising the spoiled brat, not arresting him...

Or, Chalerm's boy, murdering a PO and getting away, no problem... or, or, or, ...ad nauseam!

On the other hand "being one of them" helps a lot once they murdered, extorted, raped a civilian...

fair points but this officer died whilst protesters were trying to storm the building so I think it's highly 'probable' that his mates behind him did not fire the gun - assuming they were not on 'coke'

BTW the two incidents you mention were an utter disgrace and shows how low Thailand's system of justice can stoop - Chalerm's boy is now a shooting instructor? for the Police? don't even go there

[Bluespunk]

CAPO's new theme song.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Bluespunk

[smedly]

I also believe there is a branch of the police that are being directly controlled by government officials like Charlerm - they are members of the police but are not acting under orders from the police command - it could be argued they have been extracted from their duty as police officers to carry out covert operations outside of the police command structure - this for me would explain why people like Adul have no clue who they are or what they are doing until he is told of such matters

[Emptyset]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M_AZBQEvhYc&autoplay=1&desktop_uri=%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DM_AZBQEvhYc%2526autoplay%253D1

As Pi Sek just said in the previous thread on this topic, there are some posters one can regularly disagree with yet neverthless still respect and think reasonable. You're one of them in my book, in that I totally disagree with a lot of your positions, yet still think you've gone to some care in conceiving your arguments and you are someone clearly motivated by progressive principles.

So with that in mind, can you say why you think the police are lying about Narong? I can only think you haven't looked at all the evidence because it's definitely firmly on the side of what they say in this specific case. This is nothing to do with supporting Suthep or Thaksin or the rest of it, I simply think if you look at the evidence carefully, you'd conclude that Narong had to be shot from in the direction of Gate 3 as police say, whether by a protester or someone disguised as a protester or whatever.

Nice song btw. Know and love the first VF album, for some reason never bothered with any of their other stuff.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[Bluespunk]

As Pi Sek just said in the previous thread on this topic, there are some posters one can regularly disagree with yet neverthless still respect and think reasonable. You're one of them in my book, in that I totally disagree with a lot of your positions, yet still think you've gone to some care in conceiving your arguments and you are someone clearly motivated by progressive principles.

So with that in mind, can you say why you think the police are lying about Narong? I can only think you haven't looked at all the evidence because it's definitely firmly on the side of what they say in this specific case. This is nothing to do with supporting Suthep or Thaksin or the rest of it, I simply think if you look at the evidence carefully, you'd conclude that Narong had to be shot from in the direction of Gate 3 as police say, whether by a protester or someone disguised as a protester or whatever.

Nice song btw. Know and love the first VF album, for some reason never bothered with any of their other stuff.

My problem with this evidence is that its CAPO who are producing it.

There needs to be an independent inquiry into what happened rather than interested parties presenting their cases. I don't know who fired the shots, I would like to, but there has been so much misdirection by both sides that I distrust both of their explanations for the events.

Someone knows what occurred but they are not saying.

(You should try listening to "hallowed ground" and "why do birds sing?" If you liked the first album. Both were great).

Edited January 4, 2014 by Bluespunk

[PeterSmiles]

Amazing that in an area where a stampede of thousands of people occurred for a few days, that an empty shell stays exact at the location where it was fired, and is so easily discovered by CAPO.

[Emptyset]

So to recap, forensics confirmed that the shot was fired from a high vantage point. Then the photo of the men in black of the rooftop was released. Then the chief of police confirmed that the men in black were police officers. Then Chalerm quickly denied that. Now this reframing of the events. In addition, there is the footage we have all seen of the policeman brutally ramming his baton against the window of a van. And the subsequent admission of the chief of police that that was a police officer, as well. And now that is not even mentioned in the report. And further, CAPO now says that the use of rubber bullets was justified. So basically the renewed line of CAPO is that the police never at any time did anything wrong. So they must wonder why the public outrage. Yet sane people do not.

No, Akanat said forensics had said he was shot from a high vantage point. I can't find whether they actually said that. Maybe they did, but I'm not going to take Akanat's word for it anymore than I'd take Jatuporn's without first confirming it with a more reliable source. Then the photo of police on the rooftop was released. Then Chalerm and a CAPO spokesmen denied it. Then Adun decided it was best to admit it after realizing that the evidence was in police's favour regards the rooftop. But he also admitted the van incident and I have to say congratulations to him for that. These absurd lies about 'fake police' and 'fake protesters' have become so much the norm, it's refreshing when someone actually admits they did something wrong.

Of course police were justified in using rubber bullets if protesters were shooting at them with live rounds. And as two policemen were the first to be shot, before any protesters, then that seems likely. Sorry to keep repeating myself, but if it wasn't protesters, it could only have been someone disguised as protesters, or someone behind them. But if you look at the flats behind them as pictured in the Bangkok Pundit blog, someone on the roof would be very visible. The other option would be a balcony but how would they have got up there unless they were a local resident?

Furthermore, the protesters chased police back and away from the side of the stadium after live rounds are fired and if you take a look at this video. The journalists are shouting towards someone 'don't shoot' and 'get out'. Who? These guys have arrived there whilst Narong is being treated soon after police were on the retreat from the area the jounalists are shouting towards. Doesn't seem likely they and other police were shouting 'don't shoot' at fellow police when it's a policeman being treated.

Now I know why people were annoyed at people who claimed that red shirts in 2010 were completely unarmed and peaceful when the evidence for the men in black was there. In my book, it didn't justify the shootings of unarmed people, just as protesters using guns wouldn't justify the killing of Wasu if he was unarmed. But it did mean live rounds were necessary in the confrontation with protesters (of course at the time I thought the government should dissolve the house) and that the military were justified in placing people on high buildings as snipers and observers.

You have to take each killing on a case by case basis and review the evidence for it. If protesters were using live rounds against police, which, again is what the evidence points to, then police would actually be justifed in using a sniper to try to take out the gunman. But there's no evidence they actually did that.

Back to 2010 again. I was sympathetic to the red shirts, and that's no secret. However, I argued afterwards that they should look at their own leaders and the violence of those on their own side, as well as holding the military and Abhisit government to account. And it's the same here, protesters need to look at their own actions instead of simply using the government as an excuse to justify everything they do. Doesn't mean the police shouldn't be held to account, but it means they're not the only side at fault. 'Sane' people would recognize this, in my view.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[seajae]

I am grateful to the police for doing their best to protect citizens and residents against these mobs. It 's very easy to criticise , but they have a difficult job and are doing it well. I am glad the PM has acknowledged that. Unlike many of the posters here, I have never had a problem with the police. In my limited dealings with them, always polite and courteous and do their best to assist.

come on, this has to be the most pathetic post ever, courteous and polite, what a load of shit. Mate, you really need your head examined with crap like this, most of your posts are total crap but this is the worst yet, just goes to show how far you thaksin/red backers will go to spread your lies and innuendo.

[Emptyset]

As Pi Sek just said in the previous thread on this topic, there are some posters one can regularly disagree with yet neverthless still respect and think reasonable. You're one of them in my book, in that I totally disagree with a lot of your positions, yet still think you've gone to some care in conceiving your arguments and you are someone clearly motivated by progressive principles.

So with that in mind, can you say why you think the police are lying about Narong? I can only think you haven't looked at all the evidence because it's definitely firmly on the side of what they say in this specific case. This is nothing to do with supporting Suthep or Thaksin or the rest of it, I simply think if you look at the evidence carefully, you'd conclude that Narong had to be shot from in the direction of Gate 3 as police say, whether by a protester or someone disguised as a protester or whatever.

Nice song btw. Know and love the first VF album, for some reason never bothered with any of their other stuff.

My problem with this evidence is that its CAPO who are producing it.

There needs to be an independent inquiry into what happened rather than interested parties presenting their cases. I don't know who fired the shots, I would like to, but there has been so much misdirection by both sides that I distrust both of their explanations for the events.

Someone knows what occurred but they are not saying.

(You should try listening to "hallowed ground" and "why do birds sing?" If you liked the first album. Both were great).

Fair enough I suppose, but this blog wasn't produced by CAPO: http://asiancorrespondent.com/117827/who-were-the-men-on-the-roof-of-the-ministry-of-labor/ - although they did come out with some very similar maps just yesterday.

If you read it and compare the maps carefully with the videos, then... well, it seems pretty convincing. Of course, it doesn't absolutely prove it was the protesters, but it'd have to be someone with them or very close to them anyway.

All that's missing is a photo of a protester with a gun. But Michael Yon said there were few journalists with the protesters, so that may explain why (he also mentioned that they were friendly to him but had asked him not to photograph certain things). Yon is a supporter of the protesters but even he irritated some of his Facebook fans by saying something like 'let's face it, this was not a beatdown by the police'.

I'm probably flogging a dead horse at this point because most people will believe what they want to believe. Problem with waiting for an independent investigation is that it's simply not going to happen in such a polarized climate. Shall check out those albums. Thanks!

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[gerry1011]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Not necessarily. CAPO do not say who fired the shot, only where it came from.

Now who has the most to benefit from the protests turning violent? And, if one wanted to stir things up a bit, the best way to control the situatation is to put another group in place to do the job - not arming the protesters. Plausible deniability and proof positive that the protesters were unarmed as well as a propaganda opportunity to claim the government were responsible.

Who has the most to benefit from the protests turning violent?

Suthep, of course.

Suthep and the Dems are anxiously awaiting any violent event to quickly put the blame on the government.

Not only they hope that it will create opportunity for one more coup, but they are also very keen to portray the PT government as an evil and violent power.

Of course, one or two casualties will not be enough to make the people forget their own "achievement" during the 2010 crackdown on the reds...

So yes, Suthep can gain a lot from other people's blood.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Emptyset]

The explanations are coming from Adun and police now, not CAPO. Like I say, I've got my doubts over some of what they've said (e.g. Wasu being shot by protesters from a building) but the evidence supports the fact that Narong was shot from the direction of protesters coming from Gate 3. If it wasn't them, it could only have been someone in the flats directly behind the protesters, and that doesn't seem too likely.

By the way, that Thai Rath picture that was from 2008 was a useful reminder of PAD's propensity to violence despite the fact that Thai Rath made a scarcely forgivable mistake in claiming that it was from these protesters. This group, the NSPRT, are basically the PAD in all but name. Most of the leaders were the same people that were involved in PAD, plus the core of the group remains the same; rubber farmers and students from technical schools with involvement from a Ramkhamhaeng student leader as well I believe.

This group has been involved in practically every violent incident so far. The attacks on police raging long into the night at Government house in early December where several police cars were burned, the incident at Ramkhamhaeng University (where three red shirts and one of their group was killed), the break in at the DSI building, and now this Stadium incident. It's not a coincidence, and it's not a coincidence that they're former PAD people either. It really should not be a surprise that a minority of this group would carry small arms, just as PAD did in 2008. I mean, many of them are technical students, and they have a reputation which I'm sure most posters here are well aware of...

Suthep's core group by contrast look like angels in comparison, though obviously I don't support what they're doing, they have been pretty peaceful as far as I can tell, with perhaps the police HQ incident an exception. Yet it's likely that those co-ordinating things behind the scenes require the 'muscle' of the NSPRT and their ability to instigate such incidents. If Suthep is truly against violence, he should condemn them. Instead, they're lauded from the main stage.

I should add that if anyone here is going to defend NSPRT with reference to the red shirts, please save your time. I already know full well that there's also a hardcore minority of red shirts responsible for shocking and disgusting violence. But I also believe that the majority of protesters on both sides are peaceful. I wouldn't condemn Suthep's group in itself for violence committed by a minority. It's simply that I don't agree with their cause (despite the fact that I thought they had very real and valid reasons to protest in early November).

You do like to smear with a broad brush, don't you. A PAD protester was photographed with a gun 5 years ago, so "a minority of this group would carry small arms", and some are tech students, the vast majority of which have never been inolved in violence, but some have, so there you go. And let's not even talk about rubber farmers.

Would it be equally fair to say red shirts were extremely violent in 2010, and would be happy to see this group perceived the same way, so there is a strong possibility of laying the blame there? Or that a RTP officer, every one of which carries a handgun, panicked and fired a few shots?

I was actually trying not to smear with a broad bush! Yes, I realize that most tech school students haven't been involved in violence. But when they're coming for a fight, as they were this time, with police, would not be surprised if what was probably a minority, if not just one guy, came packing. I used the Thai Rath picture as an example (though there's more than one picture of armed PAD protesters) because it's pretty much the same group, and if they did it then, why not now when the stakes are even higher?

Like I say, the majority of Suthep's group is peaceful, but this one group is continually involved in this sort of incident. Obviously most do not use firearms. But you've seen pictures of what they did at Ramkhamhaeng or to the taxi driver on the 26th. Why would it be so much of a step up from that to one of them using a gun? To be honest I take the thing about red shirt provocateurs infiltrating their groups as seriously as I take red shirt claims of 'fake red shirts' being responsible for all the violence in 09/10. Yeah, it's possible there were infiltrators, but there's also plenty of evidence that suggests a minority of genuine supporters would be capable of such acts.

As for the wild policeman theory. Well, that might have happened in the afternoon, but not in the Narong shooting. Not unless the crazed policeman had turned backwards away from the protesters, faced police and started firing away at his colleagues.

[davehowden]

She looks like an Akela with a pack of cubs!

[Thait Spot]

The major issue with the police is that they are under Thaksin's control and therefore have a conflict of interest.

And the major issue with the CAPO is that they are under the control of Thaksin's cousin and therefore have a major conflict of interest.

Dismantle the Thaksin regime and replace it with independence

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ulic]

While I believe both sides to be equally corrupt and these protests to basically be a waste of time

from the point of view of ending political corruption, I commend the police for showing a remarkable

level of restraint under difficult circumstances.

[Emster23]

This whole thing is a bit much. The mob was breaking the law, would not disperse, correct? Rubber bullets, tear gas etc were tried, but mob didn't leave, but continued to break the laws and attempt to overthrow the legally elected government. It is governments right and duty to stop that. If it takes lead, so be it. If someone breaks into your house and tries to destroy it, you have rights to defend it with force. I have no sympathy for those killed. They brought it on themselves.

[binjalin]

This whole thing is a bit much. The mob was breaking the law, would not disperse, correct? Rubber bullets, tear gas etc were tried, but mob didn't leave, but continued to break the laws and attempt to overthrow the legally elected government. It is governments right and duty to stop that. If it takes lead, so be it. If someone breaks into your house and tries to destroy it, you have rights to defend it with force. I have no sympathy for those killed. They brought it on themselves.

that maybe right but this thread is about a Police Officer getting killed not about the morons at the gate

[Baerboxer]

So to recap, forensics confirmed that the shot was fired from a high vantage point. Then the photo of the men in black of the rooftop was released. Then the chief of police confirmed that the men in black were police officers. Then Chalerm quickly denied that. Now this reframing of the events. In addition, there is the footage we have all seen of the policeman brutally ramming his baton against the window of a van. And the subsequent admission of the chief of police that that was a police officer, as well. And now that is not even mentioned in the report. And further, CAPO now says that the use of rubber bullets was justified. So basically the renewed line of CAPO is that the police never at any time did anything wrong. So they must wonder why the public outrage. Yet sane people do not.

In stark contrast to the military after 2010, the police are prepared to answer questions and explain their involvement, and to hold accountable any found responsible for wrongdoing. Didn't you follow those events? Or do you ave double standards?

The police chief has admitted that the vicious thugs who smashed a volunteer nurse's vehicle up and terrorized the occupants were actually police officers. So let's test your theory by seeing what punishments they receive when caught and if convicted.

[Moruya]

Cops are in Thaksin's pocket

Surapong is up his cousin's posterior

And these are investigating the deaths?

Do me a favour

[theslime]

Geeze Wiz, I must be Paranoid into thinking that the New Police version, of the deaths at Din Daeng isn,t correct. Correct me if I,m wrong please. The Police, due to Media evidence changed their story, while a day later, suddenly announce that they have a shell casing , that surely would have been shouted from the roof tops days ago, when the clean up at gate 3 occurred. Maybe they where waiting to tell someone first, who know,s. That the Police Chiefs have a sympathetic heart for the loss of their fellow officer killed in the line of duty, but narry a word about the Officer hit by sports car on Suk, dragged by the car down the street, spat out said vehicle as driver raced away, maybe could of survived if the driver didn,t try to flee, who know,s. Maybe those stories about covert/overt tactics I,ve read in many a book is just in my imagination, but something smells Fishy, or I,m Paranoid.

[citizen33]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

These images have been posted before on TVF, but it is hard to know what to make of them. This is not the main Labour Ministry building, nor can I see this building in the aerial shots of the stadium/Ministry area. The figures are on the roof of a small tower near a larger building. Can anybody clarify where this is? Also, as a poster on another thread asked, how do we know when the photographs were taken?

P.S. I have now found the source courtesy of Emptyset.

webboard.serithai.net/topic/17806-“สุเทพ”-ปัดสั่งฆ่าประชาชน-ยัน/page-2

These are pictures from 2012. Honestly, some of the idiots who post here would be better to stick to their usual UFO or New World Order websites!

Edited January 4, 2014 by citizen33

[Emptyset]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

These images have been posted before on TVF, but it is hard to know what to make of them. This is not the main Labour Ministry building, nor can I see this building in the aerial shots of the stadium/Ministry area. The figures are on the roof of a small tower near a larger building. Can anybody clarify where this is? Also, as a poster on another thread asked, how do we know when the photographs were taken?

I said on the other thread that it took me three minutes on Google to find the same pictures posted on this forum in August 2012.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[Skywalker69]

Fired from gate--not a gun ???.............maybe from Bang Pa In. or ????

Gate C10 at Swampy?

[Robby nz]

I don't see anywhere in the OP where they say when they found the empty cartridge cases.

It would seem to be a new development.

If they are indeed a new find it would seem strange that after all the cleaning up that has been done since the event that the cartridge cases were still there.

If they were found directly after the event then surely there would have been the usual circles placed around them and photos taken and a report filed as evidence..

We see this published in the media after any shooting.

Even if everything in the OP is true unfortunately CAPO has lied several times before, something which tends to destroy their credibility.

[rickirs]

A shot fired from the "direction of the gate" is a fairly useless statement from an investogation viewpoint. As most people might suspect, there are two sides to a gate: inside and outside. So there's no evidence for blame by that measure. And the statement doesn't indicate that the the shot was fired anywhere near the gate, just that it came from that direction. Well my friends, there is a whole world in that direction. Maybe more scientific ballestic testings might offer more evidence.