EC rejects government’s 130-billion baht rice loans

[aimbc]

This is all very well to make the gov pay for messing up to hell with them but.

1 What about the poor farmers ?

2 What has the EC got to do with any of it ?

OK OK i admit it i havnt read the mandate of the EC and all its responsibilities, I suppose i should have guessed it would have to rubber stamp any loans of finance, i mean it wouldnt be the treasury or some other financial dept of course not, its the EC i should have known that from all the dept of silly walks they have here ....

yeah the EC is so silly. Why have even an election than? Now it doesn't suit you, so you cry foul. Dude, you got no game.

[englishoak]

I couldnt give a crap about the government, I do however give a crap about the farmers and to those that think it serves them right and they dont deserve prompt payment or even any at all ?

Well your a pretty sad excuse for a person and if you think you have morals as you pretend to here. ?

You don't

[englishoak]

This is all very well to make the gov pay for messing up to hell with them but.

1 What about the poor farmers ?

2 What has the EC got to do with any of it ?

OK OK i admit it i havnt read the mandate of the EC and all its responsibilities, I suppose i should have guessed it would have to rubber stamp any loans of finance, i mean it wouldnt be the treasury or some other financial dept of course not, its the EC i should have known that from all the dept of silly walks they have here ....

yeah the EC is so silly. Why have even an election than? Now it doesn't suit you, so you cry foul. Dude, you got no game.

what are you on about ? far as im concerned the EC is still choosing to shaft the farmers just by playing games with the gov, they will have to sanction the lending anyway but in the meantime the farmers pay the price ? unbelievable, reform in the air my ass.

[aimbc]

The sensible thing is to have YS, promise the nation that she will turn over all the documents they have for the rice scheme. Let an independent auditor trace where the money has been mis-allocated(stolen) and recover that money to pay the farmers. Come on, how hard can that be YS. You came from election, so you must have the power to do that, especially being the chairperson. I think as YS said, she has the responsibility to stay in power, she should have the responsibility to bring her administration to accountability. It's YS own word, just maybe she should listen to herself. This way no loan has to be taken out and they still stay within the budget and election guidelines. And again, as I mentioned many times, we wouldn't be debating this? And there will be no protesters. Problem solved....and good night.

[icare999]

I couldnt give a crap about the government, I do however give a crap about the farmers and to those that think it serves them right and they dont deserve prompt payment or even any at all ?

Well your a pretty sad excuse for a person and if you think you have morals as you pretend to here. ?

You don't

just different morals than you and one that thinks its not right to reward a group who could not care as long as they got money for their vote and believe everyone rich or poor has some form of duty to use the brain given to.

They accepted the bribe money to vote for their idol let them now go ask the person they worship to sort it out and to make matters worse many will now loose it all to exactly same person and group they worshipped.

My wife came from poorest of backgrounds but as her family taught her you might be dirt poor but that does not mean you need to steal or be dishonest.

Dont blame people here who have no sympathy blame the one your poor ferments worship and I'm sure he could not give a dam about the plight of the farmers nor his sister.

they sold themselves to the devil and that has now come back to bite them.

Serves them right and if not bad enough most/many supported red thugs in 2010 so no I have no sympathy at all

You reap what you sow

[EyesWideOpen]

This just blows my mind. How does Taksin keep getting the votes?

Very confusing to me. You do this and they still vote for you?

Amazing!

IQ problem....

[JRSoul]

what are you on about ? far as im concerned the EC is still choosing to shaft the farmers just by playing games with the gov, they will have to sanction the lending anyway but in the meantime the farmers pay the price ? unbelievable, reform in the air my ass.

The rice scam was a vote buying exercise with opportunities for corruption built in. It is not the duty of the EC to consider farmers, but to ensure the rules concerning a caretaker government are followed, and allowing that caretaker government to borrow large amounts of money to continue vote-buying clearly contravenes those rules.

[Thai at Heart]

How come the Eloctoral Commission has anything to say in this matter? Can anyone please explain?

A caretaker government have very limited money. They can follow already implemented rules, but anything that get close to new have to be looked at by the EC. The reason behind this is to stop the ruling party using state funds to sway votes before an election.

The rice scheme is an ongoing scheme, not anything new or close to New. The commissioners are sabotaging the government and bring hardships to the peoples.

Send from my Mobile

Yes. Its ongoing.

It was budgeted as needing x billion baht a few years ago, and unfortunately it requires 2 or 3x billion baht because its a busted system .

Sorry but a line needs to be drawn

[Cnxforever]

what are you on about ? far as im concerned the EC is still choosing to shaft the farmers just by playing games with the gov, they will have to sanction the lending anyway but in the meantime the farmers pay the price ? unbelievable, reform in the air my ass.

The rice scam was a vote buying exercise with opportunities for corruption built in. It is not the duty of the EC to consider farmers, but to ensure the rules concerning a caretaker government are followed, and allowing that caretaker government to borrow large amounts of money to continue vote-buying clearly contravenes those rules.

no it was not.....and you will see how fast the EC will consider the farmers once they are done playing their political games!

and every deal in Thailand is an exercise with corruption built in. Ask Mr. Suthep he is a specialist.

The whole exercise was meant to be a simple case of price manipulation - the whole thing went wrong when economic advisers made a fatal mistake! They actually thought commodity prices rise and fall with supply and demand!

They had no idea that this market is controlled and manipulated by enormous players (yes you guest it - the ones who made the world bankrupt a few years ago!) and almost nothing represents a real market value.

It is natural to think if one holds the largest amount (in this case rice) of a commodity in the world and withdraws it from the market the price should rise considerably - like a few years ago cocoa - when the price rise was simply manipulated upwards by buying up entire harvests in Africa. (It later backfired btw)

So where did they go wrong? Thai rice is surely one of the best quality rice in the world - the (then) No 1 rice exporter in the world withholding it from the world market simply by trying to charge more for the product - in a take it or leave it deal - should one would think send prices spiraling up. And that was the plan - but it did not work out.

They did not realize that commodity prices are controlled by very few this approx. 6 trillion US$ market is largely unregulated and there are killings to be made - I don't want to go into detail here - but more or less if you are not a member of the club - you are not allowed to participate in the manipulation game!

When these people create artificial shortages the price moves - when Thailand did it nothing happened . The price came under pressure a bit but the "shortages" where covered by India and Vietnam who subsequently became the two largest rice exporters in the world.

The idea was to drive up world rice prices but it did not happen.

The farmers would have been happy receiving a bit more for their product - and the corrupt middle man would have even been happier.

Now the real corruption starts after this - give Thais with connections and influence an honest scheme to shore up prices for the people who actually do the hard work - and they will exploit it to the limit! Remember Palm oil, coconut milk, rice mills, Lamyai mountains of empty boxes?

Farmers have always been cheated out of their earnings since centuries in this country that's why they stay poor in addition to high interest loans, fertilizers e.g.They mostly just survive from day to day and struggle with dept payments all their lives.

What happens after the rice is cut is where all the scams start.

Some foreigners have told me that they actually thought the farmers get the price the government pledged for the rice!

They loose a good 1/3 to the corrupt dealings of the middle man and mills - who are - because of the delayed payment - doing brisk business now buying rice below market price from farmers who are to poor to wait for their money. The "lucky" ones are the ones who can wait.

What the EC is doing now is lending a helping hand AGAIN - to Suthep and his backers after the registration disaster in the South and their refusal to extend registration time.

They are delaying payments to the farmers in the hope they will rise up and join the protests. But they badly miscalculate - they will never follow somebody like Suthep.

If they play their game any longer they will see what a revolution really looks like! You do not take essential things away from somebody who has nothing to loose. This is how every revolution in history has started.

We are not talking demonstrating for phony excuses or presenting the latest fashion outfit (Seri) and to take selfies in Bangkok - for them it is a fight for survival.

The next planting season is just starting in some areas and farmers need money to survive, for their crop and fertilizers withhold it from them and take away their lively-hood and they will not only shut down Bangkok but a larg part of the country.

I think there are not many foot soldiers in Thailand who's parents are not farmers - and they will surely not watch how their families are destroyed by a bunch of loonies in Bangkok playing politics.

The EC and their backers should be very careful - they might really get a revolution - but not the one they think of!

There is one thing I have learned in many years in Thailand - you do not, NEVER argue over money with anybody - and specially not with somebody who needs it to survive - you will not get away with it!

[Muhendis]

How come the Eloctoral Commission has anything to say in this matter? Can anyone please explain?

You might like to check out this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Commission_of_Thailand

Generally speaking the EC has to make sure that any machinations by the political parties do not give them an unfair advantage in the forthcoming election. Specifically this means that the caretaker govt. cannot pass laws or make payments to voters which might constitute vote buying. The rice farmers can be paid because the govt. pledging scheme is already running, but the govt. needs to get permission to raise funds specifically to give to the farmers.

[Cricketnut]

One way or another the farmers will get paid. Even in the event of a new govt, those payments would have to be honoured. The EC is saying the current govt does not have the authority, in caretaker mode, to commit the funds in the way they are proposing

Your right no they don't, they are allowed to use existing funds only. In a caretaker government mode PTP must seek permission for funds to be released. So here we have the EC putting the rice farmers down like a pet dog. Shame. This is not about the failed scheme rather the lively hood of many Thai Farmers. One can only feel pity for the people. They did not endorse the scheme. But as has been said, you watch the money come in from somewhere....

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[aimbc]

what are you on about ? far as im concerned the EC is still choosing to shaft the farmers just by playing games with the gov, they will have to sanction the lending anyway but in the meantime the farmers pay the price ? unbelievable, reform in the air my ass.

The rice scam was a vote buying exercise with opportunities for corruption built in. It is not the duty of the EC to consider farmers, but to ensure the rules concerning a caretaker government are followed, and allowing that caretaker government to borrow large amounts of money to continue vote-buying clearly contravenes those rules.

no it was not.....and you will see how fast the EC will consider the farmers once they are done playing their political games!

and every deal in Thailand is an exercise with corruption built in. Ask Mr. Suthep he is a specialist.

The whole exercise was meant to be a simple case of price manipulation - the whole thing went wrong when economic advisers made a fatal mistake! They actually thought commodity prices rise and fall with supply and demand!

They had no idea that this market is controlled and manipulated by enormous players (yes you guest it - the ones who made the world bankrupt a few years ago!) and almost nothing represents a real market value.

It is natural to think if one holds the largest amount (in this case rice) of a commodity in the world and withdraws it from the market the price should rise considerably - like a few years ago cocoa - when the price rise was simply manipulated upwards by buying up entire harvests in Africa. (It later backfired btw)

So where did they go wrong? Thai rice is surely one of the best quality rice in the world - the (then) No 1 rice exporter in the world withholding it from the world market simply by trying to charge more for the product - in a take it or leave it deal - should one would think send prices spiraling up. And that was the plan - but it did not work out.

They did not realize that commodity prices are controlled by very few this approx. 6 trillion US$ market is largely unregulated and there are killings to be made - I don't want to go into detail here - but more or less if you are not a member of the club - you are not allowed to participate in the manipulation game!

When these people create artificial shortages the price moves - when Thailand did it nothing happened . The price came under pressure a bit but the "shortages" where covered by India and Vietnam who subsequently became the two largest rice exporters in the world.

The idea was to drive up world rice prices but it did not happen.

The farmers would have been happy receiving a bit more for their product - and the corrupt middle man would have even been happier.

Now the real corruption starts after this - give Thais with connections and influence an honest scheme to shore up prices for the people who actually do the hard work - and they will exploit it to the limit! Remember Palm oil, coconut milk, rice mills, Lamyai mountains of empty boxes?

Farmers have always been cheated out of their earnings since centuries in this country that's why they stay poor in addition to high interest loans, fertilizers e.g.They mostly just survive from day to day and struggle with dept payments all their lives.

What happens after the rice is cut is where all the scams start.

Some foreigners have told me that they actually thought the farmers get the price the government pledged for the rice!

They loose a good 1/3 to the corrupt dealings of the middle man and mills - who are - because of the delayed payment - doing brisk business now buying rice below market price from farmers who are to poor to wait for their money. The "lucky" ones are the ones who can wait.

What the EC is doing now is lending a helping hand AGAIN - to Suthep and his backers after the registration disaster in the South and their refusal to extend registration time.

They are delaying payments to the farmers in the hope they will rise up and join the protests. But they badly miscalculate - they will never follow somebody like Suthep.

If they play their game any longer they will see what a revolution really looks like! You do not take essential things away from somebody who has nothing to loose. This is how every revolution in history has started.

We are not talking demonstrating for phony excuses or presenting the latest fashion outfit (Seri) and to take selfies in Bangkok - for them it is a fight for survival.

The next planting season is just starting in some areas and farmers need money to survive, for their crop and fertilizers withhold it from them and take away their lively-hood and they will not only shut down Bangkok but a larg part of the country.

I think there are not many foot soldiers in Thailand who's parents are not farmers - and they will surely not watch how their families are destroyed by a bunch of loonies in Bangkok playing politics.

The EC and their backers should be very careful - they might really get a revolution - but not the one they think of!

There is one thing I have learned in many years in Thailand - you do not, NEVER argue over money with anybody - and specially not with somebody who needs it to survive - you will not get away with it!

This is the problem with non-transparency by the government and no planning with the Rice Scheme Trying to manipulate and speculate using taxpayers money. That in itself is abuse of power. What gets me is the audacity of the administration to continue with the project after the first year, even after you pointed it out for it's failure. And for your information, less than 50% of the farmers benefited from the program. And this adds to insult, the ones that can't qualify for it, are the ones that need it the most. But ever wonder how they still survive without the government help? Well because they don't rely on the government help. So that shows that the administration shows no sincerity to help the farmers at all. If it comes to them, then it is a boon for them. The goal with this Red Propaganda machine is to create animosity among the citizens. This administration, like you, would love to blame other and spin negative propaganda (lies).

This is no game being played by anyone outside of the government. The ones playing games are the ones in control for the scheme from the very beginning. Never accepting responsibility. Everyone one out on the protest line is to stop action such as this to further abuse their power. It's through planning that will allow the country to prosper. Not through give away and carelessness. And what gets me the most is that if all the money went to the farmers like it's been promised, I wouldn't get upset. But when the money doesn't reach the farmers and in to dirty politicians hand that is what every one is up in arms about. Stop trying to divide the country. That is the problem with most of the red shirt movement.

[Brevity]

Another nail in the coffin . Goodbye yingluck and your scamming corrupt government.

I wish I had as much faith in that as you do. I think there is real chance Thaksin (under the name of yingluck) will be elected again. If that happens, i will probably lose all faith in Thais and Thailand.

[NanLaew]

How come the Eloctoral Commission has anything to say in this matter? Can anyone please explain?

A caretaker government have very limited money. They can follow already implemented rules, but anything that get close to new have to be looked at by the EC. The reason behind this is to stop the ruling party using state funds to sway votes before an election.

Yes, yes, yes... all very honorable and politically correct. But when has that ever mattered in Thailand? Oh yes, immediately BEFORE an election that the collective opposition doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. In order for Thailand to have any credible form of democratic government, they need to get their heads around the fact the populism is the new feudal patronage. I scratch your back and you suck mine, etc..

The thing that is so conveniently being missed here is that even if Yingluck, PTP et al are all banished from the magic kingdom for all eternity, the farmers will still be owed money that was promised to them. Someone in whatever masquerades as a constitutionally elected government in the vacuum created by PTP's exit from the show, will still have to PAY THE FARMERS.

I am fairly confident that someone in any new, interim or military appointed cabinet will find a way to get external financing or foreign loans to ensure the farmers get paid and are happy.... just as Yingluck is trying to do. Funny that PTP aren't permitted to do something that will inevitably need to be done anyway. But I guess that the kickbacks will then be going in the 'right' pockets no?

[Ulic]

The EC is made up of a group of incompetent buffoons, end of story.

[rametindallas]

This just blows my mind. How does Taksin keep getting the votes?

Very confusing to me. You do this and they still vote for you?

Amazing!

Because the Red Shirt villages get their information from the same source as Icommunity's posts. Read I community's posts and you will know what propaganda they are being fed.

[dukebowling]

And the corruption source shows itself again. First the Constitutional Court and now the EC. From not letting the government do it's job to downright sabotaging the government's programs. Why are they instigating this Chaos? If I was a rice farmer, I would direct my protest to the EC and Constitutional Court as the cause of not getting paid.

[aimbc]

How come the Eloctoral Commission has anything to say in this matter? Can anyone please explain?

A caretaker government have very limited money. They can follow already implemented rules, but anything that get close to new have to be looked at by the EC. The reason behind this is to stop the ruling party using state funds to sway votes before an election.

Yes, yes, yes... all very honorable and politically correct. But when has that ever mattered in Thailand? Oh yes, immediately BEFORE an election that the collective opposition doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. In order for Thailand to have any credible form of democratic government, they need to get their heads around the fact the populism is the new feudal patronage. I scratch your back and you suck mine, etc..

The thing that is so conveniently being missed here is that even if Yingluck, PTP et al are all banished from the magic kingdom for all eternity, the farmers will still be owed money that was promised to them. Someone in whatever masquerades as a constitutionally elected government in the vacuum created by PTP's exit from the show, will still have to PAY THE FARMERS.

I am fairly confident that someone in any new, interim or military appointed cabinet will find a way to get external financing or foreign loans to ensure the farmers get paid and are happy.... just as Yingluck is trying to do. Funny that PTP aren't permitted to do something that will inevitably need to be done anyway. But I guess that the kickbacks will then be going in the 'right' pockets no?

Yes get the money from the convicted criminal and the corrupt PTP.

[aimbc]

I couldnt give a crap about the government, I do however give a crap about the farmers and to those that think it serves them right and they dont deserve prompt payment or even any at all ?

Well your a pretty sad excuse for a person and if you think you have morals as you pretend to here. ?

You don't

Start first by opening your wallet and getting donations for the farmers. Don't wait for the govt. to save them. Don't just talk just do it. if you really care.

[Sceptict11]

I couldnt give a crap about the government, I do however give a crap about the farmers and to those that think it serves them right and they dont deserve prompt payment or even any at all ?

Well your a pretty sad excuse for a person and if you think you have morals as you pretend to here. ?

You don't

Start first by opening your wallet and getting donations for the farmers. Don't wait for the govt. to save them. Don't just talk just do it. if you really care.

Why would anyone open a wallet for those who voted for corruption and now complain that it has all gone wrong ?

[Thaddeus]

And the corruption source shows itself again. First the Constitutional Court and now the EC. From not letting the government do it's job to downright sabotaging the government's programs. Why are they instigating this Chaos? If I was a rice farmer, I would direct my protest to the EC and Constitutional Court as the cause of not getting paid.

Yes, of course you would.

Good boy.

[hotrod4098]

most farmers on the scheme have over 100 rai...not poor at all..its what they do with the money that makes then poor..

[JRSoul]

Yes, yes, yes... all very honorable and politically correct. But when has that ever mattered in Thailand? Oh yes, immediately BEFORE an election that the collective opposition doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. In order for Thailand to have any credible form of democratic government, they need to get their heads around the fact the populism is the new feudal patronage. I scratch your back and you suck mine, etc..

The thing that is so conveniently being missed here is that even if Yingluck, PTP et al are all banished from the magic kingdom for all eternity, the farmers will still be owed money that was promised to them. Someone in whatever masquerades as a constitutionally elected government in the vacuum created by PTP's exit from the show, will still have to PAY THE FARMERS.

I am fairly confident that someone in any new, interim or military appointed cabinet will find a way to get external financing or foreign loans to ensure the farmers get paid and are happy.... just as Yingluck is trying to do. Funny that PTP aren't permitted to do something that will inevitably need to be done anyway. But I guess that the kickbacks will then be going in the 'right' pockets no?

Yes the farmers will have to be paid, as will the massive debt to the BAAC. But why should the party that accumulated these debts be allowed to accumulate even more and reap the political benefits that would bring?

Part of the EC's remit is to prevent the caretaker government from incurring debts that would need to be repaid by the incoming government, and not to make an decisions which would cause political favour to any party, mostly to favour the caretakers.

[Ricardo]

And the corruption source shows itself again. First the Constitutional Court and now the EC. From not letting the government do it's job to downright sabotaging the government's programs. Why are they instigating this Chaos? If I was a rice farmer, I would direct my protest to the EC and Constitutional Court as the cause of not getting paid.

And how would you blame the EC, for all the payments which defaulted, months before the elections were even called by the caretaker-PM ?

The rice-scheme has been falling apart, due to inadequate funding, for longer than you suggest, IMO.

But of course the Red media have got to find someone else to blame, apart from the Big Boss who thought-up the scheme, or the nepotistic government of his sister which implemented it.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed.

[AleG]

Yes, yes, yes... all very honorable and politically correct. But when has that ever mattered in Thailand? Oh yes, immediately BEFORE an election that the collective opposition doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. In order for Thailand to have any credible form of democratic government, they need to get their heads around the fact the populism is the new feudal patronage. I scratch your back and you suck mine, etc..

The thing that is so conveniently being missed here is that even if Yingluck, PTP et al are all banished from the magic kingdom for all eternity, the farmers will still be owed money that was promised to them. Someone in whatever masquerades as a constitutionally elected government in the vacuum created by PTP's exit from the show, will still have to PAY THE FARMERS.

I am fairly confident that someone in any new, interim or military appointed cabinet will find a way to get external financing or foreign loans to ensure the farmers get paid and are happy.... just as Yingluck is trying to do. Funny that PTP aren't permitted to do something that will inevitably need to be done anyway. But I guess that the kickbacks will then be going in the 'right' pockets no?

Yes the farmers will have to be paid, as will the massive debt to the BAAC. But why should the party that accumulated these debts be allowed to accumulate even more and reap the political benefits that would bring?

Part of the EC's remit is to prevent the caretaker government from incurring debts that would need to be repaid by the incoming government, and not to make an decisions which would cause political favour to any party, mostly to favour the caretakers.

News today is of the government issuing 35 billion in bonds to pay the farmers. So, yes, they went ahead and created more debt to pacify the farmers.

I think PTP rather risk being banned (again) for electoral fraud than completely alienating their voter base. If they are banned they'll create a new party full of proxies next day, so no big loss. They can even milk the "look what the EC and the ElitesTM did to us for helping the poor farmers!" for sympathy.