Non-Extremists are Reaching a Consensus

[webfact]

Non-Extremists are Reaching a Consensus
By Cod Satrusayang and S.P. Somtow

BANGKOK: -- On politics, the two authors of this piece have not always agreed with one another but there was always a mutual respect and a willingness to understand and listen. Sadly this does not seem to apply to society at large. It is a time of belligerence and self-advocacy with people unable (or perhaps unwilling to reach across the aisle. Thus in the true spirit of reconciliation the following article was penned with each author addressing his own perceived side.

To those that support the current government:

There are many good reasons for the supporters of the current government to not listen. One can only be called uneducated, backwards or traitors for so long before harboring some sort of resentment. One can only be accused of having their vote be manipulated or bought for so long before being disillusioned with the opposition and their ilk. But that would be wrong. While it would be easy and true to sit back and argue that you’ve won every election by a considerable margin since the year 2000, the situation has changed where this no longer helps.

But it is worth reflecting that the first Thaksin government started nearly 14 years ago now. That was a time before Facebook, before twitter, when Osama Bin Laden was just a peripheral figure in the middle east. He’s dead now and our democracy may be dead soon if neither side reaches across the aisle. But why should you make the first step? Why, when you’ve been called names, been accused of knowing too little? The reason to make the first step is simple. The high road is the noblest one and history looks kindly upon those willing to forgive with compassion their most bitter enemy.

When Nelson Mandela was released after decades of imprisonment, his first acts were not measures of revenge but rapprochements of compassion. It is time that every side in our society introspects and asks the hard questions not only of the opposition but themselves. Ask yourself if every side is being used as a tool?

Many red shirts died to get Thaksin back into power and many more were injured. What has this government done except to leave a few reds rotting in jail and tried to pardon those that shot and maimed their comrades? Does it not unsettle you that the leadership found it so easy to toss away a few lives to server their aim? Remember in 2010 when the government offered a compromise of a few months before dissolution and things looked like they were headed to a peaceful end, then the leadership including Mr Thaksin threw it away through arrogance and impatience?

It is true that every side of this is corrupt but it is time that we stop pointing fingers at the other side and take a long hard look in the mirror. The inconvenient truth is that all sides are riddled with scandals and the time is ripe to break free from the cycle of corruption. The only way to break free from our political free fall is to unite together to oppose those that lead us for surely we have more in common with one another than the multimillionaires claiming to represent the people.

For the red side that means it has to break free from the shackles of Khun Thaksin. While he might have brought good once upon a time to the lives of many, was it for the benefit of all or just an effective way of retaining power? Even the most hardened red must understand the divisiveness that he brings with him today. Elections in February will just lead to more of an impasse if there is no meaningful attempt to distance oneself from the tentacle-like reach of Khun Thakin's political machine.

If it is true that he has awoken the political awareness of many Thais in society then the time is now to showcase true political understanding.

If you can get rid of Thaksin and his minister's who treat your vote (and lives) with such disregard, you may even find PRDC supporters crossing the aisle to embrace you and promote democracy. The reality of the situation is this, the PDRC may treat your voices and votes with disdain but don't be fooled into thinking that the current government and its backers care about your votes anymore than what it takes to hold onto power. Just ask the poor farmers asking for their rice back because the government defaulted on the rice scheme, ask the red shirts still rotting in jail, ask the dead of Rajprasong Also remember that in the long run, you have already won. The rural vote will never be disregarded again.

Democracy is here to stay and long may it do so.

Thaksin has served his purpose in Thai history, use him as a tool that can now be discarded and by extension stop being used by him as a tool to stay in power. Respect the power of your vote.

by Cod Satrusayang

To those that support the opposition:

Red-leaning intellectuals like my co-author used to vilify me using the sorts of epithets traditionally slung at the Yellow Shirts — "patronizing," "smug sense of entitlement," and so on. I've always found it odd for people to assume that my political opinions are genetically programmed, but since my mother, sister, and niece are all at the protest rallies — my niece is even speaking there this evening — such prejudice is perhaps understandable.

But, as time goes on, I find myself more and more in agreement with him on more and more issues, and I think that most thinking, fair-minded people in this country, whichever side of the political divide they may have been associated with in the past, are gradually coming to a consensus. This consensus, alas, is one that neither the pro- nor the anti-government extremists want to hear.

My advice today is addressed to the leaders of those who are protesting in the streets today.

There is a fairly good chance that you will "win" this struggle — if by winning you mean the removal, for a time, of the Thaksin influence from Thailand's politics. A resolution will come about one-way or another. It is a plausible outcome that the near future at least may be a Thaksin-free one.

Winning the war, however, would be a piece of cake compared to winning the peace.

The people you believe to be your enemies have managed to put a very powerful myth in place: the myth of the simple peasant fighting an oppressive elite for the simple right to be free.

Instead of countering this myth with an equally powerful one, you have tried to overwhelm the international media with corrective facts. You have also created some myths of your own which you need to reexamine thoroughly. You have manufactured these myths in order to create powerful rallying cries, but if you actually get your way and win this skirmish, you are going to have to put these myths aside and look at the underlying realities. Or, like the organizers of the 2009 coup, you will arrive as saviors, and leave as idiots.

Let us look at some of these myths:

"This is a struggle of good against evil." Sorry, guys, that one only works in Bibles and comic books. There are no angels here, and no demons. There are only people with agendas.

"Eliminating Thaksin will eliminate the ills of Thai society." I'm afraid those ills probably have deeper roots. I personally believe that the psychological effect of turning the country from Siam, a multi-ethnic, diverse kingdom of loosely federated, self-governing regions, into Thailand, a highly centralized ethnocracy in which the only non-second-class citizens are the Thais, was probably where much of this started. Changing us back into decentralized Siam, and reconnecting us with our thousand-year past, might give us a more balanced perspective.

"The poor are too stupid to vote." This one will never fly. Lack of education and money does not translate into stupidity nor does it deprive anyone of any rights.

"It's all about corruption." No. Every government in Thailand has been corrupt. Thaksin merely broke the gentlemen's agreement about how corrupt you are allowed to be. Stop shouting "corruption" at the foreign press; that makes you into a laughingstock. What will play to the international media is ethnic cleansing (the Tak Bai massacre) the erosion of press freedoms, and killing people without a trial (the so-called "drug war" and the "disappearance" of dissidents"). These are shocking crimes that have been all but overlooked.

To win the peace, you need to accept the reality that most people in this country have cast their votes on the other side. You must stop these childish sour grapes, stop saying all their votes were bought — you would have bought them if you could! — and roll up your sleeves and start convincing people who voted against you that you would be better for them. There are many chinks in their armour. Many have just realized that the rice pledging scheme was not really designed to benefit them. Many have concluded that the Shinawatras no longer serve their agenda. Think about what you did to alienate them, and start trying to get them back.

Just as the pro-government forces must accept the reality that they will never be able to govern as long as they are being manipulated by the Shinawatras, so you must accept that you will never be able to govern without reaching across and trying to understand what it is the people on the other side really want.

I think you will discover that most of them want the same things you want: fairness, freedom, and unselfish governance. I think you will see that you have a great deal more in common than you thought. "Loving thy enemy" may be a hard pill to swallow. But if you really want to be the messiah, the crucifixion is in the contract.

by S.P. Somtow

Cod Satrusayang is a writer and researcher based in Bangkok. His works have appeared in a myriad of publications at home and abroad.

S.P. Somtow is a novelist and composer whose works have been widely disseminated throughout the world. He is the artistic director of Opera Siam.


-- The Nation 2014-01-20

[Scamper]

Both these points of view are highly intelligent and well posed. Indeed, there is much to be said on both sides of this debate. Taking a look down the road, I can actually see the amalgamation - or synthesis - of both these points of view. To be sure, for peace to be a long-term prospect in Thailand, they will have to be. A winner-takes-all attitude will not solve this problem. Because a winner-takes-all attitude is what got us into it. But there is - for the first time in years - a genuine window of opportunity here for a path that takes us into the amalgamated direction posed by these two opinions. And it is an opportunity that has actually nothing to do with the PDRC. The window of opportunity - as it happens - has to do with the election itself. On February 2 the election will take place. It will doubtless be the most disruptive, raucous election in Thai history. But it will take place. In parts of the country it will be fairly smooth. In other parts of the country it will be not so smooth. It will be sheer chaos in others. Yet the election will take place. The election will not produce a parliamentary quorum. And that is the window of opportunity. Because the lack of a parliamentary quorum will be a constitutional crisis - one without precedent, there will be a genuine vacuum for which there is no legislative path forward. The administration will be stripped of all power. They will be frozen, so to speak. Once that becomes apparent, the army could then quietly step in, and assume a non-participatory role as mediator between all the parties, including the two major parties. It means public reform forums would take place on a scale unprecedented. It would be immensely healthy. If the reforms were applied to a forced timeline of say, three months, a constitution might emerge that has the collective backing of all participants, including the two major parties. That would be put to a referendum, and if passed, could lead to a new national election. The biggest mistake a reform process could have would be to exclude Pheu Thai. This has never been about Pheu Thai, or even a Pheu Thai administration. It has always been about Thaksin. If that umbilical cord could be cut, it would free the path forward and act as a glue for both parties. The success of such a forum - in my view - would be dependant on the PDRC having nothing to do with it. But it is very, very important that both Pheu Thai and the main opposition Democratic party - both of whom have undeniably huge constituencies - come to some form of an agreement or consensus in this clearly sharply divided country. I do not personally believe that the Democratic party will ever - for at least the foreseeable future - be the government. Their base is simply not that extensive. Nor do I think Pheu Thai can govern from the North alone, pretending that the rest of the country doesn't exist. But if Thaksin were somehow to be cut off from the Pheu Thai party, I have absolutely no doubt that a possible future Pheu Thai administration would have much more backing in parts of the country that may surprise them now. Indeed, as these articles collectively suggest - the way forward comes with sacrifices - from both parties. If Pheu Thai can give up Thaksin, and the Democratic party can concede the realities of the electoral map, then I think that that would have a real chance for success, and would lead to the beginnings of greater trust between these age-old factions.

[Robby nz]

Very true that the time has come (long past) to be looking at peace not war.

Problem is that the hate has been fostered and now runs deep and continues to be used as a tool by those who only want power.

It should be about what we will do to improve the future not about what they have done in the past.

We see many writings like this and calls from this group or that, but it needs someone to stand up and take the lead not just write or talk about it, every game needs someone to kick the first ball, the whole team does not do it but this country does not have a Mandela but there must be someone out there who can start the process of winning the trust of all sides.

There certainly needs to be many reforms put in place to make this a fairer society but I don't see that any politician can be trusted to carry out these reforms when many of them would work against their own asperations.

Reforms need to be put together by a group of ordinary people from all walks, should it be possible to get such a group together this could be the start of building trust in that it would show that basically "They want the same as we do".

[chainarong]

The gutter variety are starting to raise there heads, so it is good to see some are interested in Thailand's future and using consensus as a means to get things done and bearing in mind consensus is the democratic way to sort out the problems in a mature manner, not bombs , guns and so forth, that only shows the rest of the world how far Thailand has progressed, not very far it would seem.

[The Dancer]

I see. The first author says that if the reds give up Thaksin and Thaksinism then the yellows will forgive them (and maybe even stop calling them khwais). Very magnanimous.

But exactly why should the people who have benefited from his policies give up on Thaksin? Access to cheap health care, loans, farm support, etc. - Thaksinism or populism, whatever you want to call it - has transformed the lives of millions in rural Thailand.

So, why should these people give up on Thaksin or Yingluck or the clan they see as the first to not treat them as second-class Thais born only to serve on Bangkok plantations?

I would suggest Suthep and the Dems contemplate why they're in the electoral wilderness and devise policies that'll bring them back by way of the ballot box. It's not impossible. If Thaksin could do it, so can they.

Riding in behind tanks may seem an appealing short-cut but the power will be short-lived too.

[jpeg]

when Osama Bin Laden was just a peripheral figure in the middle east. He’s dead now

And has been since at least 2010.

[northernjohn]

Both these points of view are highly intelligent and well posed. Indeed, there is much to be said on both sides of this debate. Taking a look down the road, I can actually see the amalgamation - or synthesis - of both these points of view. To be sure, for peace to be a long-term prospect in Thailand, they will have to be. A winner-takes-all attitude will not solve this problem. Because a winner-takes-all attitude is what got us into it. But there is - for the first time in years - a genuine window of opportunity here for a path that takes us into the amalgamated direction posed by these two opinions. And it is an opportunity that has actually nothing to do with the PDRC. The window of opportunity - as it happens - has to do with the election itself. On February 2 the election will take place. It will doubtless be the most disruptive, raucous election in Thai history. But it will take place. In parts of the country it will be fairly smooth. In other parts of the country it will be not so smooth. It will be sheer chaos in others. Yet the election will take place. The election will not produce a parliamentary quorum. And that is the window of opportunity. Because the lack of a parliamentary quorum will be a constitutional crisis - one without precedent, there will be a genuine vacuum for which there is no legislative path forward. The administration will be stripped of all power. They will be frozen, so to speak. Once that becomes apparent, the army could then quietly step in, and assume a non-participatory role as mediator between all the parties, including the two major parties. It means public reform forums would take place on a scale unprecedented. It would be immensely healthy. If the reforms were applied to a forced timeline of say, three months, a constitution might emerge that has the collective backing of all participants, including the two major parties. That would be put to a referendum, and if passed, could lead to a new national election. The biggest mistake a reform process could have would be to exclude Pheu Thai. This has never been about Pheu Thai, or even a Pheu Thai administration. It has always been about Thaksin. If that umbilical cord could be cut, it would free the path forward and act as a glue for both parties. The success of such a forum - in my view - would be dependant on the PDRC having nothing to do with it. But it is very, very important that both Pheu Thai and the main opposition Democratic party - both of whom have undeniably huge constituencies - come to some form of an agreement or consensus in this clearly sharply divided country. I do not personally believe that the Democratic party will ever - for at least the foreseeable future - be the government. Their base is simply not that extensive. Nor do I think Pheu Thai can govern from the North alone, pretending that the rest of the country doesn't exist. But if Thaksin were somehow to be cut off from the Pheu Thai party, I have absolutely no doubt that a possible future Pheu Thai administration would have much more backing in parts of the country that may surprise them now. Indeed, as these articles collectively suggest - the way forward comes with sacrifices - from both parties. If Pheu Thai can give up Thaksin, and the Democratic party can concede the realities of the electoral map, then I think that that would have a real chance for success, and would lead to the beginnings of greater trust between these age-old factions.

I pretty much agree with what you have to say. I do believe a three month period would not be long enough. It would take a fair amount of time just to get the right people in to the commission. They must represent all different parts of the society. They must all be open minded. that in it's self will be quite a task. Yes there should be people on it from all parties. The PTP does have some honest politicians as do every party.

As for getting Thaksin out of the way the whole clan and the people who were flying to Dubai and Hong Kong when positions were coming open in the cabinet. The ones who were at his beck and call. All must go. Plus any one who sat in it and let him call in must go. Even if they are qualified. Leave none of his stink behind.

It is a bitter pill for the people to swallow. They are correct in all their accusations the corruption is as the OP said at a higher level with Thaksin back in control. The protestors are being asked to accept with out retaliation all the crap he has dealt out to them personally and through his hired henchmen and thugs. Forget it like it never happened. Yet this is what they must do for a better future in Thailand. The thing is will the red shirts go along with it. They think Thaksin has done them a lot of good. Are they willing to say no to let him go? All ready their is a group of them who want Thaksin out of politics. Will the rest of theme be willing to go with out him.

What the people don't realize that are talking about how wonderful Thaksin is that any thing he did for them came back to him ten fold. He was in the office when the world economy was on a roll it was hard to go wrong. They don't realize how much money was flowing into his pockets that rightfully should have been flowing or staying into the national treasury. Plus he still has 15 other charges out against him. Also it would call for them to admit to their part in 2010. that will be a bitter pill for them to swallow. to admit that it was there actions that started it before the Army was even on the scene.

If both sides can swallow those bitter pills Thailand has a good future ahead of it. Well at least a good chance.

[moonao]

This wont work. Asking people to drop their right to choose who they want to vote for ?

nice yellow try but won't work.

The 2 Yes 2 No suggestion is a far more intelligent proposal.

The “2 Yeses 2 Nos” slogan refers to the ideas that the people in the network have at least in common. “2 Yeses” refers the two things that they support, namely the “rights to have democratic election” and the “need for reform to occur democratically”. “2 Nos” points to their opposition to any “military coup” and any form of “violence”.

[poisonus]

The problem with this report is that they are each trying to convince their respective side to come together with the opposite side and try to convince each other why they support the side that they do and hammer out some sort of socially accepted compromise which ultimately will lead to reconciliation on the streets level of Thailand.

However, it would just end up with 15 million arguments, loss of patience and probably spark an all out civil war.

Nice try, but this is Thailand.

[pipkins]

Got to give this a ten out of ten.

Well written and sensible points on both sides.

[Roadman]

It will take longer than 3 months as it is all fields of governance plus the constitution that needs reform, not just the pointed bit of the mafia corrupt incompetent politicians.

Excellent article as are some of the replies to date. Agree with Scamper that the failed election is the best chance that Thailand has for reform, but will that remove the Thaksin cancer cells?

[Crushdepth]

Its actually the reds that are best placed to solve this mess. Cut ties with Thaksin (really cut them) and start representing the intetests of their constituencies. They don't need him to win an election.

It would a win for them and everyone that isn't Shincorporated. Giving up the sugar won't be easy though.

[Emptyset]

I'm afraid those ills probably have deeper roots. I personally believe that the psychological effect of turning the country from Siam, a multi-ethnic, diverse kingdom of loosely federated, self-governing regions, into Thailand, a highly centralized ethnocracy in which the only non-second-class citizens are the Thais, was probably where much of this started.

One thing I agree about is the above, red leaning foreign academic David Streckfuss pointed out in his Bangkok Post article a month ago or so that decentralisation is the way forward. The two yeses, two nos group of academics will look at practical solutions and direct democracy - it's all very well saying it's the way forward, but you need to detail how it can be achieved in practice. Different modes of intergration into Thailand certainly have a lot to do with the current conflict, no surprise that the cleavage is mostly along regional/ethnic lines.

As for the rest, despite that both of these writers come across to me as somewhat high-handed and pompous, I agree with the gist that it's time to look for common ground. Most moderates would find much to agree on.

[inutil]

Its actually the reds that are best placed to solve this mess. Cut ties with Thaksin (really cut them) and start representing the intetests of their constituencies. They don't need him to win an election.

It would a win for them and everyone that isn't Shincorporated. Giving up the sugar won't be easy though.

Count to ten. Think about it. Then have another go at reading the article.

If you still feel that way, try again. And again. And even again...

Keep trying though, im sure the point will sink in eventually.

[northernjohn]

Its actually the reds that are best placed to solve this mess. Cut ties with Thaksin (really cut them) and start representing the intetests of their constituencies. They don't need him to win an election.

It would a win for them and everyone that isn't Shincorporated. Giving up the sugar won't be easy though.

To really cut the ties they would have to get rid of all his cohorts. Not sure if they realize that it is more than no Thaksin. His spirit must be cut out also.

[Boxclever]

Excellent, excellent overview of the current situation.

Very well written!

[citizen33]

I thought this was going to be about 'two yes's and two no's', but in fact it is a clever attempt to convince voters of why they should give up their votes to favour the yellow side. There is already a much better platform for compromise.

[noitom]

Where were these guys and their writing five, ten, twenty years ago? They make plausible points. Before any reasonable progressive change in Thailand can take place they have to agree to a vision of Thailand that everyone can reach consensus on.

Who are we, what do we want to be, what kind of a country are we, what do we stand for? Why are we capable, what we have done for the cause of freedom to us and others around us? Are we charitable? Do we abide by law and order? Do we abuse human beings and traffic them for profit? Do we believe in the implementation of law and order and the elimination of preferential application of law? Can we walk away from the cultural disposition that "everything is for sale," and copying others property and selling it is an industry?

Can we assure the rights and freedoms of every one of our citizens and foreigners living in our land. Can we assure freedom of speech and eliminate censorship? Can we place high value on education, knowledge, and industriousness? Can we be elected to office fairly regardless of our family background or that we have a university degree? Can we make all people in Thailand equally important and not just those in Bangkok?

What is out national character and strategy for all?

[Thai at Heart]

These views have all been put forward on here by different people.

Question now is, which way forward?

I really can't see much way forward peacefully. It is being pushed to make or break and the army is seen as a saviour.

There can be no civil society until a few people learn to understand serving the people. It is an anathema to thai culture. A pooyai who serves.

In a way, I wish they would get on with it and have a damn civil war and whoever wins, does so and the people can learn the error of their ways for being manipulated by these bringers of lies.

The people themselves have precisely the governments they deserve.

[fab4]

So, In a nutshell, ditch Thaksin (and by extension any party associated with him) and not a word about sutheps people council.

So what are these people who have ditched Thaksin going to do? Not vote for who they want (they have a choice, there are candidates from 53 political parties to choose from) because there shouldn't be an election?

[Mackie]

So, In a nutshell, ditch Thaksin (and by extension any party associated with him) and not a word about sutheps people council.

So what are these people who have ditched Thaksin going to do? Not vote for who they want (they have a choice, there are candidates from 53 political parties to choose from) because there shouldn't be an election?

Will you ever learn the difference between apples and bad apples? Obviously not. Luckily people like you have no say in Thai politics. Stop warmongering. You appear to be even bigger extremist than Suthep.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Mackie

[spirit47]

Politicans must kicked out of the game for a break, or its a deal with the devil. And I feel boring about this red against yellows BS, its People against Politicans. The people not protesting for another actor on the self-service-Government-bank. People want reforms, and YES, some people dont want corruption and patronage, they want a fair chance to get a Government job without paying a lot of money. Business people want Government contracts without paying a lot of money. All this money that selfish politicans put in their pockets can use for good things, education, healthcare, agricultural reforms, infrastructure and so on... The real damage of corruption is much bigger than only the money, corrupt politicans and manager plan how they can earn most money, not what make the most sense...

So I think sometimes the only way to stop cancer is to cut, the complete Taksin-regime. Than look further...

I read last time that 28 million household participate in the rice-pledging-scheme. What politicans have done all the time? What happen to them, after destroying the reputation as rice exporter? Open your eyes, every technocrats Government make a better work than this Clowns-and-puppet-entertainment-soapshow....

[Roadman]

I thought this was going to be about 'two yes's and two no's', but in fact it is a clever attempt to convince voters of why they should give up their votes to favour the yellow side. There is already a much better platform for compromise.

The only other platform is the foot still anchored from the Constitutional Monarchy of yesteryear being the Army. The other foot that is supposed to be anchored to the Democracy of tomorrow and today is a failed platform. There is no other platform but I guess democracy is win the seats then do what you like for a lot.

[Roadman]

This wont work. Asking people to drop their right to choose who they want to vote for ?

nice yellow try but won't work.

The 2 Yes 2 No suggestion is a far more intelligent proposal.

The 2 Yeses 2 Nos slogan refers to the ideas that the people in the network have at least in common. 2 Yeses refers the two things that they support, namely the rights to have democratic election and the need for reform to occur democratically. 2 Nos points to their opposition to any military coup and any form of violence.

Then we all can agree with the Yes then. Yes the solution will come democratically with a vacuum created by a failed election or court decision, that then Yes democratically reform can occur, and then Yes democratically there can then be an election where votes will count, all without the No of a military coup and violence. Good job.

[Thai at Heart]

This wont work. Asking people to drop their right to choose who they want to vote for ?

nice yellow try but won't work.

The 2 Yes 2 No suggestion is a far more intelligent proposal.

The 2 Yeses 2 Nos slogan refers to the ideas that the people in the network have at least in common. 2 Yeses refers the two things that they support, namely the rights to have democratic election and the need for reform to occur democratically. 2 Nos points to their opposition to any military coup and any form of violence.

Then we all can agree with the Yes then. Yes the solution will come democratically with a vacuum created by a failed election or court decision, that then Yes democratically reform can occur, and then Yes democratically there can then be an election where votes will count, all without the No of a military coup and violence. Good job.

Clear as blaaaaa

[MegaRanter]

The problem in Thailand is that there is no equality.

There is a serious class problem. Some would get away with more while some will be hanged for far less.

It's quite nice if you are on the high side, but looking up and seeing so much shit heading your way? You can only endure so much.

Most of my Thai friends are all the rich types, my ex wife couldn't relate with them. I tried to for a decade to get her to eyeball to eye ball with them, never worked.

They should star by banning words like Kwai or ihia

[3NUMBAS]

they were never colonized as theyre proud of , but it did them a dis service as it left them far behind on the evolutionary curve ,so their society is all mangled and tormented ,beset by superstition and crazy ideas .you cant put that right very easily .generations to put it right

[MW72]

What a refreshing post. It's good to hear sensible pragmatic views from people on both sides of the political divide. If only everyone could see the flaws on both sides and debate the current crisis in a mature and rational way. The sad thing is that this thread has 28 posts whereas the one about the lawyer's letter to Obama has around 280 and most of them are just people with polarised opinions spouting the same old thing you normally see on here. They never acknowledge the many flaws on their own side and they have nothing to contribute as far as a solution is concerned. It's like two kids in a school playground " I'm right" "No, I'm right and your wrong" and so it goes on until a fight starts. You can expect that of children who don't know any better but grown adults should realise that it solves nothing.

Sent from my KFTT using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MW72]

they were never colonized as theyre proud of , but it did them a dis service as it left them far behind on the evolutionary curve ,so their society is all mangled and tormented ,beset by superstition and crazy ideas .you cant put that right very easily .generations to put it right

Seriously? There are plenty of superstitious folks the world over. Most of the irrationally superstitious people I know are westerners. I'm gonna get stick for saying this but IMHO most superstitious stems from ignorance and religion and has nothing to do with colonization. Education and science are the way forward.

Sent from my KFTT using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[whybother]

Some people don't actually understand what compromise means.

Cutting links to Thaksin doesn't mean that PTP ceases to exist. They can still be elected, and they can still have their populist policies, but it gets rid of the issue that has been causing problems since 2005.

Sent from my phone ...