Retire to Chiang Rai compared to Chiang Mai ?

[AlanM]

Comments welcome.

Currently I am in South Africa. With the increasing high crime rate here, it is time to consider the rest of my life

Wanting to retire to Thailand mid this year. My initial thought was Chiang Mai, after visiting previously. However, I believe of late, Chiang Mai is becoming more like Bangkok with the hustle and bustle of city life.

I am 65, not in to bars and clubs. Been there, done that.

I have a retirement pension which I need to budget on. Would accommodation and general way of life be cheaper in Chiang Rai than Chiang Mai.

Also, I believe, what I am told, there is more of a Thai culture feel to Chiang Rai

Thanks

Alan

[sceadugenga]

Come up for a week or so and have have a look around.

Check out what's available, apartments etc.

Not much good asking about prices, you really need to look around and decide for your self.

[harrry]

Unless you have stayed in a place for at least six months it is pretty hard to say whether you will like to retire here for the rest of your life. Come, stay and look round and if it suits make more permanent commitments.

I find ChiangRai a better choice for most things but others do not.

[NeverSure]

The OP asked if CR was cheaper than CM, and I too am curious. Any comments, please?

[fifthcolumn]

I think Thsilsnd has had its day. I'm married and <55 but if I had a pension, I would not be here.

I have never liked Chiang Mai. Hot, smoky, landlocked. At least Bangkok is buzzing.

Then you have the politics. These issues as of late are ongoing snd unsettled from.decade/s past and won't be resolved soon.

Immigration procedures are tedious in all but the largest cities.

But hey, if you are lonely and coming for the women, I guess you too can live the dream

[aliep]

Straight forward answer, Chiang Rai is a much smaller town (Chiang Mai is Thailand's second largest city) and consequently, Yes, Chiang Rai is cheaper than Chiang Mai.

How much cheaper depends on how you plan to live, will you buy or rent your home? how do you spend your time? your money?

The people at the Immigration office in Chiang Rai are an absolute pleasure to deal with, they always have a smile for everyone, I don't have any experience with the Immigration officials in Chiang Mai, but I have heard it's not so pleasant.

[villagefarang]

Clearly those of us who live here, have made our declaration for Chiang Rai over Chiang Mai. Far more people have chosen Chiang Mai, however, and one could argue as to why that is, but I view that as a personal choice.

Most people who say they live in Chiang Rai are referring to Chiang Rai Provence and not the town. It would be more accurate to say, Chiang Khong, Mae Sai, Chiang Saen, Chiang Kham, Thoeng, Phaya Mengrai, Wiang Chai, Wiang Chiang Rung and the list goes on.

We all have our own personal reasons for living where we do and a story about how we got here. I doubt any two are identical.

Some people will spend the same amount regardless of where they live. I suspect some find Chiang Rai cheaper because they live a more sedentary and remote life, and find less to spend their money on.

Sitting on a rocker watching the sunset costs pretty much the same, regardless of where you live.

[harrry]

You have to qualify that cheaper.

Yes it is cheaper for many things but for accomodation of Western Style and Condos it can be much more expensive. There is an oversupply of condos in ChiangMai so it is possible to rent a quite liveable condo for 4000 baht but here that would not get you a tiny box in one of the few condos there are here.

[johnopolo]

Alan, send me a PM.

[Card]

I might suggest Nan - still very Thai but with a small but growing tourist and farang resident population. Great little city, but unfortunately it will end up like Chiang Mai withing 20 years with ASEAN, tourism and the Laos border opening up. It's got everything Thai that CM has - mountains, hilltribes, river, temples (and now an array of coffee shops, boutique hotels, 2 farang restaurants and even a Tesco's!). The downside is that they don't have many if any condos and the property and land prices, although quite inflationary, is not easy to access for outsiders as there doesn't seem to be any estate agencies. Also with 1 small plane a day from BKK, no railway at the moment, there are only cars and long distance buses to get there. They are widening the roads to cope with the influx. But it's worth it.

[jackflash]

Chiang Rai is very small and very quiet, and compared to Chiang Mai is rather primitive.

Western style nightlife is almost nonexistent.

So depending on what you are looking for, you'll either love it or hate it.

[canardo]

CR is small and remote and not yet developed very much, if people here celebrating a TESCO in town I would wonder how developed the hospital situation is based on western standards: language, equipment, professionality...

Being 65, might be something to consider.

[harrry]

CR is small and remote and not yet developed very much, if people here celebrating a TESCO in town I would wonder how developed the hospital situation is based on western standards: language, equipment, professionality...

Being 65, might be something to consider.

Actually it is fairly well served. It has two private hospitals of qute fair standard and a public hospital which provides very very good health services within it's means. It is well equiped to handle all routine care and a transfer to Chianmai can be done in 2 hours by ambulance at a cost of 5000 baht if you really think you need it.

[villagefarang]

It can be interesting to hear people say they wish to live a more remote and primitive lifestyle, while in the same breath complain that services are not up to world class standards here in Chiang Rai. It could be that Chiang Mai is less of a shock to the senses, depending on where you are coming from of course, and that may be one reason far more people choose it over Chiang Rai.

[elgenon]

Chiang Mai is not the second largest city. : )

[harrry]

Chiang Mai is not the second largest city. : )

No it is not. But not so long ago it was. Just shows the rate of growth of other centres in Thailand with industrialion,

[umbanda]

I was living in Chiang Mai for 2 years and I am living now in Chiang Rai.

I am not into bars and tourist environment, and I think that busy traffic and markets are OK just for a week end... or for a short vacation....

Comparisons?

Chiang Rai is cheaper than Chiang Mai because not so much tourist around. A nice one bedroom apartment/house rents for about 4000THB/month.

Chiang Rai is smaller, and it is possible to live on the mountains or in the countryside, but just 10 minutes to town.

Chiang Rai have a smaller but very active expat community called chiangraities where you can find a lot of information about the city activities.

Chiang Rai have a very friendly and easy immigration office just by the border with Burma, in Mae Sai, 30 minutes driving from the city. Immigration also comes to the city one day a week, to set a stand on the Central Plaza Mall. More convenient than that? Chiang Mai immigration? Ask me about.

Chiang Rai is also 2 hours from Chiang Kong, the border with Laos, and 40 minutes from Phayao Lake in the way to Nan or Lampang.

Chiang Rai have the best weather in Thailand..even very cold in winter, and not so much air pollution like Chiang Mai. Chiang Rai is Just 3 hours away from Chiang Mai, but on higher altitude.

Traffic in Chiang Rai is a lot easier and safer than Chiang Mai....I think that people are also more friendly, you can become a "local" faster, and it is easier to find teaching jobs for foreigners here. Nice schools and universities.

The scenery around the city is gorgeous...not need to drive long like in Chiang Mai, to be around lakes and mountains...easy transportation system and easy bus station and airport.

Come to visit here before make a decision...and welcome to Thailand!

[pauleddy]

There are also villages and small developed areas outside of CM, 10-20km. That way, you can go into the city when you need towny stuff.

My own experience of horizontal entertainment in CM suggests that a wallet is often required.

I like the small and more rustic town feel of CR, although both places are a trifle boring if you like bookshops, big malls, different bars and are used to Bangkok (OK, CM has one or two bookshops with large stocks, plus more Tescos and BigCs)

The best advice is probably to visit both, and spend a bit of time.

The comments about hospitals are very germane. If you are over 60, you probably need to be in easy reach of a cardiac catheter lab and a CT/MRI scanner. Country hospitals don't have those, as far as I know. Medicine is taught at CMU, so there must be a teaching hospital there. I believe that Nursing is taught at CR, but I don't think that there is a major hospital which deals with cardiac angios or neurosurgery there. But, that said, you takes yr chances if you live anywhere in the world which is not "populated".

Eddy

[villagefarang]

Umbanda

Just a couple of things. We usually refrain from mentioning the other Chiang Rai forum by name as they are a breakaway group who originally posted here. Also since a new immigration office has opened in Chiang Rai it doesn’t look like they will be continuing the immigration day at Central Plaza.

[gawaterman]

Chiang Mai is not the second largest city. : )

So which one is,Phuket,Pattya?

[villagefarang]

Not sure of the accuracy but here is one list.

. Nakhon Ratchasima 2,582,089

. Ubon Ratchathani 1,813,088

. Khon Kaen 1,767,601

. Chiang Mai 1,640,479

. Buri Ram 1,553,765

. Udon Thani 1,544,786

. Nakhon Si Thammarat 1,522,561

. Si Sa Ket 1,452,471

. Surin 1,381,761

. Songkhla 1,357,023

[pomchop]

Chiang Mai is not the second largest city. : )

So which one is,Phuket,Pattya?

Numbers vary depending on which site you believe but CM usually comes in at 6th or 7th largest city in Thailand. Number two is usually shown as Nonthaburi.

CM isn't even close to being second largest city in Thailand.

[mikemac]

AlanM, Having lived in Chiang Rai for the first 4 years I spent in Thailand, and now living in Chiang Mai for the last 4.5 years, I would say they were similar price wise but Chiang Rai may be cheaper for the basic commodities, fruit, veges etc.

I prefer Chiang Mai myself but I know a lot of people who moved to Chiang Rai because it is not as busy. Both are great places to live and the

local people are very nice. Come and spend a bit of time in each town and make up your mind then. Hope you make the best choice for your future. Good luck.

[pomchop]

Here are a few of the things that I enjoy about Chiang Rai....I suppose you could find some of these in CM but there is something about the small town feel that makes CR more special in my eyes. I often think if not another single tourist/falang set foot in CR it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever to the vast majority of locals as they pretty much all go on about their lives and figuring how how to make a living without having to depend on walking ATM's as in so many other places.

Good Things about Chiang Rai:

walking along chiang rai beach on a cool december morning

watching the rice harvest in mid november from my deck

watching the morning "rush hour" with Thais bundled up on their motorcys like they are going to the artic

watching the afternoon market being set up

buying fruits and veggies at some of the lowest prices on earth from roadside pickup truck markets

watching the gem boat guys sifting through gravel in the mae kok

watching thai kids ride their bikes with their dog following along

watching the young monks doing their morning rounds

riding my motorbike along the mae kok with no traffic in sight

watching the total chaos of saturday shopping at big C

eating fantastic food at give away prices at many CR restaurants

attending the annual chiang rai flower festival

planting a variety of plants/trees in my yard and being amazed at how fast they grow

watching the neighbors get all excited about killing and cooking a snake

walking around downtown chiang rai on a cool clear december morning

having a cold beer in the garden area of peace bar

taking visitors for a tour of the Red Rose Hotel

watching the light show at the clock tower

watching the hustle and bustle of the night market and the mix of thais and tourists

riding the "refugee bus" from chiang rai to mae sai and seeing what kind of characters show up

buying exotic plants at nurseries that would cost a fortune in the west for a few baht

watching the thai high schools students hanging out and goofing around after classes

having a pretty thai girl give me a big smile for no particular reason

having thai kids practice their limited "i am fine" english out on me

practicing my limited thai with thai kids and having them stare wide eyed at the farang before breaking into giggles

watching the beautiful orange blossoms appear throughtout chiang rai

hearing massage parlor girls ask "massage sir?" in a sing song voice

sitting on a bench at wat mengrai enjoying the solitude

climbing the steps to the top of wat doi kong khao

wading in the mae kok river on a hot day

getting a cup of water thrown on me by a giggling 6 year old girl during song kran

having the neighbors' dogs bark and growl until they realize it's just the farang coming home

having my laundry picked up, cleaned and delivered back to my home for 75 baht a week

having the water man deliver big jugs of water for 12 baht and refuse a tip

having security guards click their heels and salute me like I am someone important

watching female office workers drink whiskey with their lunch

knowing five of the dancing shrimp's sexy waitresses by name

having my motorbike oil changed for less than the cost of a cup of coffee

watching workers climb and trim my trees with no ladders and only a machete

having workers show up ready to work but without a tool to their name

never having to worry much about the cost of most any repair to anything

paying my electric and internet phone bill at 7/11 with no hassles

getting caught in the pedestrian traffic jam on Saturday night at the walking street market

parking at wang come hotel for 20 baht

visiting an ear doctor and having my total bill be 100 baht

trying to figure out what all goes on at the sperm club, the par club and the womb

buying eggs that haven't been refrigerated and not worrying about it

cooking up big pots of vegetable stew with many vegetables that i don't even recognize

having TOT guys show up to repair my internet and actually get it fixed and no charge

watching Thais collect red tree flowers and turn them into something tasty

watching the ice cream tuk tuks roaming all over chiang rai selling 10 baht ice creams

watching Thai ladies grubbing around in streams and lakes catching who knows what kind of critters

having a hill tribe girl in the afternoon market try to line me up with her friend

trying to walk for exercise along the river and having Thais try to give me a ride

watching the Thais build buildings with bamboo scaffolding and not a hard hat in sight

watching young Thais flirting and drinking whiskey at chiang rai beach

having a nice buffet at rim kok hotel for 140 baht

eating a tasty platter of chicken steak, french fries, salad and bread for 69 baht

eating a bowl of 10 baht noodle soup served by a ten year old kid

watching a bicycle tuktuk driver older than Methuselah peddle an even older lady around town

seeing how many Thais can fit on one motorbike

seeing how many Thais can fit into the back of a pickup truck

seeing how many different businesses can be built onto a Honda wave motorbike

pulling into a gas station and having 3 uniformed attendants gas my motorbike and clean my rear view mirrors and not expect a tip

seeing how many different kinds of motorized vehicles Thais can come up with

wandering around in various food markets and being offered free samples of many things i don't recognize

holding my nose to cover the smell of the seafood section at big C

trying to figure out when and where the baht buses at the afternoon market actually go

laughing at some of the prices for imported goods at big C

having a big C employee push my cart to an available cashier for me

getting treated like a VIP just for being a farang and showing up

having a waitress wai and thank me for a 5 baht tip

taking my big C register receipt to the premium counter and winning a can of coke

trying to figure out how they decide who wins what at the big C premium counter

not really caring how they decide who wins what at the big C premium counter

the boat trip down the mae kok from tha ton to chiang rai

standing in line at 7 11 and having a little lady jump the line on me and i don't even care

spending a night at the garden home bungalow in tha ton

sitting at the chiang rai bus station and trying to fathom who is going where and why

watching a new monk induction ceremony with all his family present and oh so proud

watching the sunset from my balcony with an ice cold beer chang

going to the public hospital and having poor Thai people insist that i go to the front of the line

seeing a doctor for less than the parking would cost in the west

chasing chickens out of my yard in Thai assuming they will understand me

having Thais constantly tell me how good my Thai is when i know it's not

stopping for directions and having a group of Thais gather around to see what the farang wants

breakfast at nice kitchen near wat jed yod watching the goings on

getting lost on my motorbike in the middle of nowhere and enjoying it

walking across the mae sai bridge and being back in Thailand with a new visa stamp in less than ten minutes

going to the CR post office and feeling like a local

buying an entire watermelon for 10 baht

having an entire wall at 7/ 11 featuring snacks for 20 baht or less

the first big rainstorm at the end of the cool dry season

watching a yellow Buddha flag flap in the breeze

visiting the 10 baht stores and being amazed at all the items available for 10 baht

watching the aerobics and exercisers at the old airport and wondering who is who

having the mail man show up at my house on a motorbike and wondering how he found me

eating a burger at Barrys at the golf course

watching the beer garden girls at big C strut their stuff

trying to figure out which girls are high school and which ones are college students

enjoying how tight a high school girl can have a white blouse without popping buttons

watching farang backpackers walk around with massive backpacks that defy all logic

being able to sometimes go for days and not hear another person speak English or hassle me

watching the frog giggers appear in the rice paddies at night after the first big rain

seeing a bright blue bird with long yellow feathers in the wild

seeing a nasty looking snake race across the road in front of my motorbike

watching hilltribe people float down the mae kok on hand made bamboo rafts

having to put an extra blanket on my bed because its freezing

being able to see my breath on a few extra cool mornings

flying in and out of CR airport without most of the usual airport hassles and BS

[maodun]

Concerning immigration...I was in Mae Sai earlier in the week and the immigration office confirmed they will no longer be coming to Central Plaza in Chiang Rai on the first Saturday of each month.

Reason? Because the NEW immigration office in Chiang Rai opened this Monday - January 27th. They will be handling all immigration matters with no need to go to Mae Sai immigration except for work permits. For some reason you will still have to go to Mae Sai immigration on matters dealing with work permits.

[marioc]

Straight forward answer, Chiang Rai is a much smaller town (Chiang Mai is Thailand's second largest city) and consequently, Yes, Chiang Rai is cheaper than Chiang Mai.

How much cheaper depends on how you plan to live, will you buy or rent your home? how do you spend your time? your money?

The people at the Immigration office in Chiang Rai are an absolute pleasure to deal with, they always have a smile for everyone, I don't have any experience with the Immigration officials in Chiang Mai, but I have heard it's not so pleasant.

Obviously Chiang Mai Immigration Office is busier than the Chiang Rai one due to the size of the city but there is nothing to complain in particular, at least as far as I am concerned after 4 years of dealing with it....

[Nemesis7]

Must isit CR next time for sure

[wileycoyote]

Good Posting Pomchop

On my first visit to Thailand ,I fell in love in Chiang Mai ,but I married Chiang Rai !

[AlanM]

Retire to Chiang Rai Compared to Chiang Mai.?

For all the people that wrote back and gave me info between living in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, I thank you all.

I received some great tips which I am sure will be of benefit to me in the future.

Alan.

[pennine]

I retired to Thailand (Koh Samui) from Bedfordview, Johannesburg 7 months ago. Bought a house before coming and had many holidays here. I don't know the places you mentioned, but my advice is live there for 6 months to see if you like it and the Thai lifestyle, before committing.