PM Yingluck warned by NACC she may lose an important opportunity

[binjalin]

NACC

National Association of Corrupt Councilors

"that the NACC would not be an independent organization if it did not do its job properly after having been intimidated"

we are living in delusional times... I fear these people actually believe their own illusions - and THAT is Thailand's biggest problem - is there NO ONE who is pure, untainted and honest?

[chooka]

@ Jessefrank

Suthep is busy overthrowing a corrupt government, Yingluck has never been busy with anything remotely related to a government.

Yea right

Sorry can't come to court to face murder allegations, I am busy trying to overthrow a government. If I succeed then a promotion for all. If I fail well. I was never here and catch me if you can.

I can just imagine in places like Australia, a guy is to face multiple murder charges and was to appear in court but he says he can't because he in involved in a violent demonstration to overthrow the government. Yea and the Australian police, prosecutors and courts will say, "Oh <deleted> mate didn't realise." Get back to us when you are free and please accept our sincire apology for disturbing you in you little activity.

His sweet dirty little arse would dragged by the ears and thrown into a cell. No one in Australia tells the courts when and if they will appear.

Edited February 26, 2014 by chooka

[Thai at Heart]

You might be right, the Australian labor government did the same thing with the National Broadband Network, promise to put broadband into every home in Australia. That blew out by billions of AUD but they got the votes and people never got what was promised, no corruption or criminal charges against the then government.

its not illegal for governments to implement policies that lose money. It is illegal for governments to enact that laws that break laws.

[kimamey]

He also dismissed the Pheu Thai partys accusation that the NACC had deliberately dragged its feet on the probe against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva over the rice price guarantee scheme which has been going on for about four years whereas it took the commission only 21 days on complete the probe against the prime minister on the rice pledging scheme.

He defended that the probe on the rice pledging scheme began in December 2012 and took more than a year to complete and not 21 days as suggested by the ruling party.

Yet Yingluck's case has progressed more in 14 months than Abhisit's case in 4 years?

But they're not dragging their feet ...no way.

What was the alleged corruption in the Democrats price guarantee policy?

They certainly shouldn't show bias but I have to admit I'd never heard of Abhisit's case before. I did hear of some farmers who laimed to have defrauded the scheme but nothing about Abhisit and nothing on a large scale.

[kimamey]

Can they actually strip a defendants right to a copy of evidence and exhibits that are going to used against a person. Don't people hire lawyers to collect and examine these documents on their behalf?

It is like something out of the dark ages.

Indeed. But it wouldn't surprise me if this was a wonderfully subtle and Thai way of telling Yingluck that if she does turn up, they're not going to 'throw the book' at her. Why otherwise make it clear that any question of indictment would have to be handled by the Senate?

After all, everyone recognises that although she is legally responsible, as a puppet PM it would hardly be fair to insist that she is actually responsible for her brother's hare-brained rice scam.

She isn't legally responsible for anything. She instituted a subsidy scheme that lost some money. That's what politicians do. Its a nice concept. I mean in comparison Gordon Brown and Tony Blair would have been on the hook for hundreds of billions if they were classed as "legally" responsible for the damage they caused.

Exactly what damage was that. I' not saying you're wrong but just interested in a bit more detail.

[DrTuner]

It is the dark ages.. Thailand's feudal system of Government is pre French Revolution.

If Thailand's system of Government is pre French Revolution, it only follows that the guillotine should follow.

Probably the only way to prevent the same corrupted cronies popping up again.

[Baerboxer]

There are over 25,000 outstanding probes and corruption cases that would have been wiped clean by YL's governments Amnesty Bill fiasco.

So perhaps a better question would be why the former PTP government, which took a much promoted role in "fighting" corruption. thought that slashing the NACC's budget was the right way to expedite all these cases.

Despite Mister Fixit's rude aspersions on Chupup's intelligence, which adds nothing to the discussion, this discussion is indeed about YL and the charges she faces. She would be better trying to defend the charges and show her innocence rather than attempt to discredit the process.

I don't know the precise number, as Baerboxer seems to do, (how?) but I can tell you that he's probably not far off from my personal observations at their head office.

And don't forget they have a satellite office in BKK at Phitsanulok Road, as well as an office in every province ...

The number of cases that would be wiped clean in an Amnesty was mentioned in several threads regarding that onerous bill and its even more onerous passage through parliament.

The number usually quoted, from memory, was around 25,500. That number has often been referred to by many posters since. It really does show the scale of corruption and the lack of resources really dedicated to bring offenders to justice in Thailand.

Your observations confirm that the people doing this work are dedicated but seriously over worked and understaffed.

It's easy to go along with the myth that they must all be elitist controlled biased one sided and anti-Thaksin until someone like you comes along who has actually worked with them and can make statements based on factual personal experience.

[Mister Fixit]

I've never personally seen any photocopiers here that take coins. They all seem to be operated by nice old ladies who eagerly take your cash and have plenty of change available.

Would = might ?

Whatever the process might be, Yingluck seems keen to ignore it. Having her legal team trawl through the evidence to be presented might be a good idea. Or perhaps she thinks she already has details of all that might be used against her.

I suspect she just isn't that interested. Her team will lean on the AG to stop it going to court, and similarly with the senate regarding any dismissal from office. She is more concerned about finding excuses to stay in power next week when the election hasn't been completed and the farmers realize her personal vow to pay them this week means SFA.

Actually she hasn't ignored it as today is Wednesday.

But if you read the article that I referenced in this thread about 2 hours ago, she says 'her schedule in the North means she may have to miss it' or words to that effect i.e., she's running scared.

[Mister Fixit]

Well, looks like the NACC is closed at the moment.

I'll pop up and take a look tomorrow morning. It's less than 2 miles from home.

I know the security staff pretty well too, so I may learn something ...

[Mister Fixit]

You might be right, the Australian labor government did the same thing with the National Broadband Network, promise to put broadband into every home in Australia. That blew out by billions of AUD but they got the votes and people never got what was promised, no corruption or criminal charges against the then government.

It is illegal for governments to enact that laws that break laws.

Or implement them corruptly ...

[JesseFrank]

I can just imagine in places like Australia, a guy is to face multiple murder charges and was to appear in court but he says he can't because he in involved in a violent demonstration to overthrow the government. Yea and the Australian police, prosecutors and courts will say, "Oh <deleted> mate didn't realise." Get back to us when you are free and please accept our sincire apology for disturbing you in you little activity.

His sweet dirty little arse would dragged by the ears and thrown into a cell. No one in Australia tells the courts when and if they will appear.

Can you imagine in places like Australia that a government leader faces multiple murder charges for dispersing a violent protest during SOE , in the first place ?

[Baerboxer]

Actually she hasn't ignored it as today is Wednesday.

Look at post #111 where Mr Fixit kindly puts the link to the caretaker PM being in Chiang Rai.

Notice I say "seems keen to ignore it" suggesting a future likely action. The reason I think this likely is supported again from what I've read and reinforced by post #111.

Let us see what she does tomorrow.

[Thai at Heart]

Exactly what damage was that. I' not saying you're wrong but just interested in a bit more detail.

Well, by the measure that they are holding ovre Yingluck, of "losing money" or incurring excessive debt for the government, I think the debt to GDP ratio of the UK when Blair came to power was 37% and topped out at about 80% when the labour party left power.

But you see, you can't equate that with damage in the legal sense, because people voted for these people to take responisbility. As I say again, it is not illegal for politicians to put in policies that incur debt on behalf of the country. Call it what you like, but it is not illegal. In total measure of "competence", if you were to measure Brown as an exchequer and prime minister in financial terms, he was an asbolute catastrophe.

[Thai at Heart]

You might be right, the Australian labor government did the same thing with the National Broadband Network, promise to put broadband into every home in Australia. That blew out by billions of AUD but they got the votes and people never got what was promised, no corruption or criminal charges against the then government.

It is illegal for governments to enact that laws that break laws.

Or implement them corruptly ...

But still, it is not illegal to implement a subsidy.

[Mister Fixit]

Look at post #111 where Mr Fixit kindly puts the link to the caretaker PM being in Chiang Rai.

Notice I say "seems keen to ignore it" suggesting a future likely action. The reason I think this likely is supported again from what I've read and reinforced by post #111.

Let us see what she does tomorrow.

Looks like she won't be coming back to answer charges, as the Nonthaburi red-shirts have chained the doors shut at the NACC tonight. As if that will make everything go away. ... I'll be up there on my bike for a nose about tomorrow. The Nonthaburi red-shirts are a nasty lot. Some of them were shot by the Army at Nonthaburi City Hall on Ratthanathibet in 2010.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/397103/red-shirts-lock-anti-graft-office

But the idiots have chained the doors of the NONTHABURI PROVINCIAL office, which is NOT the same at all as the Head Office in Sanam Bin Nam Road near my home where the investigation is being led from! Cupid stunts! Every province has an NACC office, and they've done it to the wrong one ... Bwahahahahaha! Have any of them ever been to school?

I doubt they'd dare go to the main office, as there's an Army base at the corner of Sanam Bin Nam and Tiwanon Road. But they may be daft enough to. I know the head guard there, and he's a tough old ex-army sergeant - I doubt he'd take any cr@p. But there are at least 2 female Army security there, who just take number plates down. They may feel intimidated.

Ha ha, I'm looking forward to seeing just what the idiots have been up to in the morning, camera at the ready ...

Edited February 26, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[fab4]

Propagandists like you are one of the main reasons people are being murdered this days.

Oh, don't be so ridiculous. Do you even think before posting?

Are you a Ferwert supporter?

Why on earth would I support a small village in Holland?

[mrtoad]

Propagandists like you are one of the main reasons people are being murdered this days.

Oh, don't be so ridiculous. Do you even think before posting?

Are you a Ferwert supporter?

Why on earth would I support a small village in Holland?

Think about it Fab.

[Dogmatix]

Impeachment is one thing but it only means she is voted out of office and her caretaker role will expire soon. Criminal charges are also appropriate for such an egregious level of corruption that was effectively taking food out of the mouths of the poorest, most vulnerable members of society who actually voted for her party.

[casualbiker]

Impeachment is one thing but it only means she is voted out of office and her caretaker role will expire soon. Criminal charges are also appropriate for such an egregious level of corruption that was effectively taking food out of the mouths of the poorest, most vulnerable members of society who actually voted for her party.

That's up to the Attorney General..

[binjalin]

Impeachment is one thing but it only means she is voted out of office and her caretaker role will expire soon. Criminal charges are also appropriate for such an egregious level of corruption that was effectively taking food out of the mouths of the poorest, most vulnerable members of society who actually voted for her party.

absolute nonsense based on what? hearsay? I believe her to be honest (yet not a great leader) and the 'elite' have tried to punch Thailand's FIRST female PM into a corner

She has stood proud and the future will judge her kindly

the 'elite' will lose but it will take time - maybe 10/15 years

sit back and observe

[Mister Fixit]

Ah, it seems that the initial report of this was incorrect and said the Nonthaburi Provincial Office of the NACC.

It was wrong - it IS the head office on Sanam Bin Nam. I know it well. Pictures here and more later when I've seen what's what.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/707140-redshirts-test-courts-neutrality-with-a-rally-at-nacc/

[TheClog]

The chair of the NACC is playing political games in expecting Yingluck to attend any such hearing.

He knows very well that the elected Prime Ministers safety and security would be severely compromised by the armed, baying, suthep mob , strutting unfettered around the streets.

[casualbiker]

The chair of the NACC is playing political games in expecting Yingluck to attend any such hearing.

He knows very well that the elected Prime Ministers safety and security would be severely compromised by the armed, baying, suthep mob , strutting unfettered around the streets.

There are numerous offices she could go to. She is caretaker PM.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mister Fixit]

The chair of the NACC is playing political games in expecting Yingluck to attend any such hearing.

He knows very well that the elected Prime Ministers safety and security would be severely compromised by the armed, baying, suthep mob , strutting unfettered around the streets.

No, they aren't. They are following a strict procedure laid down by law. Yinglack is avoiding the issue by running away and putting her head in the sand like an ostrich.

There are NO Suthep supporters in Sanam Bin Nam Road, WAY out of town. And there are FOUR police companies and ONE army company guarding the NACC from the inside. Is she so paranoid she thinks they'll turn on her if she actually has the balls to face the music instead of living in Laa-Laa land?

Edited February 27, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[zakk9]

Can they actually strip a defendants right to a copy of evidence and exhibits that are going to used against a person. Don't people hire lawyers to collect and examine these documents on their behalf?

It is like something out of the dark ages.

Indeed. But it wouldn't surprise me if this was a wonderfully subtle and Thai way of telling Yingluck that if she does turn up, they're not going to 'throw the book' at her. Why otherwise make it clear that any question of indictment would have to be handled by the Senate?

After all, everyone recognises that although she is legally responsible, as a puppet PM it would hardly be fair to insist that she is actually responsible for her brother's hare-brained rice scam.

She isn't legally responsible for anything. She instituted a subsidy scheme that lost some money. That's what politicians do. Its a nice concept. I mean in comparison Gordon Brown and Tony Blair would have been on the hook for hundreds of billions if they were classed as "legally" responsible for the damage they caused.

She's responsible for a whole string of things:

- Not being transparent about the use of the money

- Refusing to submit required documentation for control

- Lying about GtG agreements

- Endangering the economy of the nation by not stopping the scheme before it became insolvent (and in reality bankrupt)

I'm sure the NACC can come up with more. The problem for her is that, since this case is so large and probably so well documented, claiming that it's politically motivated will be very difficult, and not believed by many anyway, except her strongest supporters. Although the verdict against her brother was also well documented, it was not such a high profile case, and few have bothered reading the documents except those involved.

[zakk9]

The chair of the NACC is playing political games in expecting Yingluck to attend any such hearing.

He knows very well that the elected Prime Ministers safety and security would be severely compromised by the armed, baying, suthep mob , strutting unfettered around the streets.

No, they aren't. They are following a strict procedure laid down by law. Yinglack is avoiding the issue by running away and putting her head in the sand like an ostrich.

There are NO Suthep supporters in Sanam Bin Nam Road, WAY out of town. And there are FOUR police companies and ONE army company guarding the NACC from the inside. Is she so paranoid she thinks they'll turn on her if she actually has the balls to face the music instead of living in Laa-Laa land?

laalaa.gif

There may be other reasons why she chooses to be in the north. It's probably easier for her to get out from there with a private jet if necessary, since nobody in Chiang Mai would stop her.

Edited February 27, 2014 by zakk9

[Mister Fixit]

The chair of the NACC is playing political games in expecting Yingluck to attend any such hearing.

He knows very well that the elected Prime Ministers safety and security would be severely compromised by the armed, baying, suthep mob , strutting unfettered around the streets.

No, they aren't. They are following a strict procedure laid down by law. Yinglack is avoiding the issue by running away and putting her head in the sand like an ostrich.

There are NO Suthep supporters in Sanam Bin Nam Road, WAY out of town. And there are FOUR police companies and ONE army company guarding the NACC from the inside. Is she so paranoid she thinks they'll turn on her if she actually has the balls to face the music instead of living in Laa-Laa land?

laalaa.gif

There may be other reasons why she chooses to be in the north. It's probably easier for her to get out from there with a private jet if necessary, since nobody in Chiang Mai would stop her.

My thoughts exactly, right into big brother's welcoming arms ...

[Trembly]

@ Jessefrank

Suthep is busy overthrowing a corrupt government, Yingluck has never been busy with anything remotely related to a government.

Yea right

Sorry can't come to court to face murder allegations, I am busy trying to overthrow a government. If I succeed then a promotion for all. If I fail well. I was never here and catch me if you can.

I can just imagine in places like Australia, a guy is to face multiple murder charges and was to appear in court but he says he can't because he in involved in a violent demonstration to overthrow the government. Yea and the Australian police, prosecutors and courts will say, "Oh <deleted> mate didn't realise." Get back to us when you are free and please accept our sincire apology for disturbing you in you little activity.

His sweet dirty little arse would dragged by the ears and thrown into a cell. No one in Australia tells the courts when and if they will appear.

You're forgetting that while Tarit drafted out a warrant for Suthep and went public with it, it was at the time of his going public with it still unapproved by the courts, and eventually the courts refused to endorse it. .

So Suthep and the rest of the PRDC leaders actually do not have any warrants out for them at the moment.

Bit naughty of Tarit not to tell everyone that he was only waiving around his own draft copy, really

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Court-refuses-to-issue-arrest-warrants-against-Sut-30225469.html

Edited February 27, 2014 by Trembly