Ruling will be sought on legal status of Thai govt

[PepperMe]

I guess I must have missed something in the tangled web of Thai politics,

As far as I know, Mark and Dem MP's resigned and did not vote, Mark also claiming on a news interview he did not vote, I thought that if you did not vote then you can not be a sitting MP, So did Mark vote or did he lie, and did his MP's vote or did they lie? The other thing is why oh why was not a retired judge appointed as caretaker PM after the 30 day limit? But it also seems that the law says the current government must stay and continue working until the new government takes over,

Nope... you are clinging to Chalerm's version of article 181.

You clearly missed my previous post... Check out the bold print that Chalerm deliberately left out.

Article 181.

The outgoing Council of

Ministers shall remain in office for carrying out

duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers

takes office but, in the case

of the vacation of office

under Article 180 (2),

Article 180.

Ministers vacate office

en masse

upon:

(1)

the termination of ministership of the

Prime Minister under Article 182;

(2)

the expiration of the term or the

dissolution of the House of Representatives;

(3) the resignation of the Council of Ministers.

In the case where the ministership of the

Prime Minister terminates under Article 182 (1), (2),

(3), (4), (5), (7), or (8

), the procedure under Article

172 and Article 173 shall apply

mutatis mutandis

[PepperMe]

What a bunch of winging losers this dem crowd are.

It would be best all round if the Court brought forward their dissolution case and put them down.

Agree 100%, but also let them pay all damage and economic loss they are responsible for !!

How about getting the PTP and Shins to pay for all the losses and the damage that they have caused.

That will go into the trillions by the time they are gone.

[pkspeaker]

It's ridiculous-all the democrats can do is constantly try to sabotage the democratic system- whatever the law is, the law does not take into consideration that a bunch of anti-democracy fascists will sabotage the election by shutting down polling stations, and that the police and military will stand by and allow them to do that,as I remember on election day some of the polling places were only faced with a handful of 'protesters' and it was still shut down..

The country needs some kind of a limited power PM & cabnet until the house is put back in order and the government can resume normal powers, what difference does it make if the caretaker is Yingluck or some appointed douchbag-they have limited powers anyways ..

If the democrats or their 'neutral' PM steals power like abhisit did a few years ago by coercion and corrupt court rulings, the red shirts are just going to flood ratchprasong again and demand a new snap election, so whats the point of the democrats doing this, their agenda must be to provoke a war.

[webfact]

Government’s caretaker role in question



BANGKOK: -- The role of the caretaker government role is now in question after the 30-day deadline to reopen Parliament after the February 2 general election could not be made due to lack of enough elected Members of Parliament to convene the first meeting.

A legal question is now emerging as whether the caretaker prime minister and her cabinet could still work when Parliament could not open.

The 30-day constitutional deadline expires today and is likely to create what is called a “political vacuum”.

The parliament could not open as the opening needs at least 95 per cent of the House of Representatives of 475 MPs. But until now the Election Commission still could not yet announce even a single elected MP, as the election is not yet completed.

The opposition Democrat party and a group of senators are now on the process to ask for interpretation of the status of the caretaker government from the Constitutional Court to end the political vacuum.

Democrat party’s legal team led by Mr Wirat Kalayasiri said the party would petition the Constitutional Court to rule whether the caretaker role of the Yingluck cabinet will end after the 30-day deadline expired.

He would also ask the court if the caretaker government breached Article 69 of the Constitution for overstaying in power when the deadline expired.

Another possible channel is to collect as many as 20,000 signatures to file a petition to the Constitutional Court seeking its ruling whether the status of the caretaker government has ended.

The signature list could also be submitted to the National Anti-Corruption Commission to remove the caretaker cabinet ministers from the posts for breaching the Constitution if it continues to perform duties despite the fact that its caretaker status has ended.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/governments-caretaker-role-question/


-- Thai PBS 2014-03-04

[ikke]

They are whingers. Won't contest elections but seize power every time to get in Parliament. Is this fair to the people of Thailand? Bunch of greed merchants the lot of them PDD included. Makes me sick to see Democratic princibles circumnavigated in such ways. You won't last Dems if you do get in power, just like in 2010, the people will revolt again and so they should. Tis not democracy, but a bunch of muppets...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Rubbish.... You know the Dems would piss any election if they participated.

They would have won the last one by a mile and some.

PTP 8 million votes? I bet that has almost halved since Feb 2nd.

The Dems abstained out of principle, but if they have to come in as interim government until a new election can be set up, then that will not exactly be a case of stealing government will it?

They would probably set up the next election to remove populism and vote buying... which is true democratic election standards, not the old election standards where vote buying and populism was acceptable.

We will see who wins the next proper election because the Feb 2nd one has been a failure, even without the disruptions by PCAD.... If they ever bother to complete them, it will show a massive NO MANDATE for the winners, and parliament will never be able to get a quorum.

Dream On.....

[smedly]

I guess I must have missed something in the tangled web of Thai politics,

As far as I know, Mark and Dem MP's resigned and did not vote, Mark also claiming on a news interview he did not vote, I thought that if you did not vote then you can not be a sitting MP, So did Mark vote or did he lie, and did his MP's vote or did they lie? The other thing is why oh why was not a retired judge appointed as caretaker PM after the 30 day limit? But it also seems that the law says the current government must stay and continue working until the new government takes over,

Nope... you are clinging to Chalerm's version of article 181.

You clearly missed my previous post... Check out the bold print that Chalerm deliberately left out.

Article 181.

The outgoing Council of

Ministers shall remain in office for carrying out

duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers

takes office but, in the case

of the vacation of office

under Article 180 (2),

Article 180.

Ministers vacate office

en masse

upon:

(1)

the termination of ministership of the

Prime Minister under Article 182;

(2)

the expiration of the term or the

dissolution of the House of Representatives;

(3) the resignation of the Council of Ministers.

In the case where the ministership of the

Prime Minister terminates under Article 182 (1), (2),

(3), (4), (5), (7), or (8

), the procedure under Article

172 and Article 173 shall apply

mutatis mutandis

100% correct - Charlerm was being very selective and omitting the complete article, it is very clear what it says, there is no further interpretation required by the CC but as usual PTP remain defiant and refuse to obey the law and constitution - no surprise there

[robblok]

The PTP must be scared a lot now.. once they are forced out all their misdeeds can be examined. But I am sure much of the stuff already went through the shredder. But who knows maybe enough is found to permanently banish them to Dubai.

Also.. a lot of MP will loose their protection and court cases against them for terrorism can follow please correct me if I am wrong for the protection ending.

The Thaitanic after hitting a ricemountain has been sinking i wonder when the rats will leave.

[Fat Haggis]

Pepperme, you seem so confident the dems would win hand over fist, how about snap elections within 10 days, winner takes all, losers pack their backs and retire?

I don't think you'll find the Dems would fare well in The North and East as much as you would believe.

[Scamper]

Indeed, the constitution - through a myriad of articles - is descending on this administration. The ruling by the Constitutional Court on this matter last month was in relation to Article 68, as that is the article the request was filed under. But other articles are very much the focus now. Article 127 states that the parliament should be held within 30 days of an election - in other words, today. Article 7 addresses the question as to the process in the event of a parliamentary vacuum - in other words, tomorrow. Chalerm sites Article 181, but does not address Article 127 or Article 7. Clearly, all articles have to find accommodation in the law. It's not a question of one cancelling out another ! In the case of Article 181 it states that the caretaker administration remains in effect until a new administration is in place. Granted, but Article 127 is specific with the date for the convening of parliament, and Article 7 is specific regarding the process for a parliamentary vacuum - which is exactly what we will have tomorrow. An administration cannot hold on to power over an indefinite or continually redefined extension of its own fancy - as per Chalerm's fanciful remarks after February 2 where he confidentially stated that it wouldn't matter if the election took six months to complete. But he was completely rewriting the constitution. One thing is for sure, Chalerm will not be the last word on this ! The Constitutional Court will.

[expat888]

He cited Article 181 of the Constitution, which states, "The outgoing Council of Ministers shall remain in office for performing duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers takes office."

About says it all, unfortunately.

I believe the constitutional court has the power to appoint the senate to vote in an interim government.

Chalerm is the person you quoted and we all know the guy is full of shit.

He has quotes article 181 which is the same article that the government are in total violation of (see below).

Article 181.

The outgoing Council of

Ministers shall remain in office for carrying out

duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers

takes office but, in the case

of the vacation of office

under Article 180 (2),

Article 180.

Ministers vacate office

en masse

upon:

(1)

the termination of ministership of the

Prime Minister under Article 182;

(2)

the expiration of the term or the

dissolution of the House of Representatives;

(3) the resignation of the Council of Ministers.

In the case where the ministership of the

Prime Minister terminates under Article 182 (1), (2),

(3), (4), (5), (7), or (8

), the procedure under Article

172 and Article 173 shall apply

mutatis mutandis

.

So there you have it, their term has definitely expired and they have definitely dissolved the house of representatives.

So Chalerm conveniently omitted the important bit at the end of article 181 that leads you to the exception of article 180.

Nice try Chalerm, but we are little sharper than you hoped for.

You are assuming someone (Thai) is listening to you.

[fredob43]

While you lot are bickering about who can do this and that, they need to have yet more elections to get the 95% of elected peep's. Due to them having to be held in the south not a chance that is going to happen. So what ever one you support this so called PTP cant carry on, and it'll have to come to an end some ware along the line.

Only hope it's quick as the country cant go on like this forever.

[whatsupdoc]

Pepperme, you seem so confident the dems would win hand over fist, how about snap elections within 10 days, winner takes all, losers pack their backs and retire?

I don't think you'll find the Dems would fare well in The North and East as much as you would believe.

Can you stop going on about 'winner takes all'? It is not the way it is supposed to work in a real democracy (in contrast to a red one).

[virtualtraveller]

If I were the Dems I'd keep quiet, the longer Yingluck's govt stays as 'caretaker' the better, since it limits them from borrowing money but leaves them in place to explain away the rice fiasco and deal with increasingly irate farmers. Being 'removed' by judicial coup will only play into Thaksin's hands.

[Suriya4]

Indeed, the constitution - through a myriad of articles - is descending on this administration. The ruling by the Constitutional Court on this matter last month was in relation to Article 68, as that is the article the request was filed under. But other articles are very much the focus now. Article 127 states that the parliament should be held within 30 days of an election - in other words, today. Article 7 addresses the question as to the process in the event of a parliamentary vacuum - in other words, tomorrow. Chalerm sites Article 181, but does not address Article 127 or Article 7. Clearly, all articles have to find accommodation in the law. It's not a question of one cancelling out another ! In the case of Article 181 it states that the caretaker administration remains in effect until a new administration is in place. Granted, but Article 127 is specific with the date for the convening of parliament, and Article 7 is specific regarding the process for a parliamentary vacuum - which is exactly what we will have tomorrow. An administration cannot hold on to power over an indefinite or continually redefined extension of its own fancy - as per Chalerm's fanciful remarks after February 2 where he confidentially stated that it wouldn't matter if the election took six months to complete. But he was completely rewriting the constitution. One thing is for sure, Chalerm will not be the last word on this ! The Constitutional Court will.

I am lost.

Are you lost too?

[TVGerry]

He cited Article 181 of the Constitution, which states, "The outgoing Council of Ministers shall remain in office for performing duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers takes office."

About says it all, unfortunately.

I believe the constitutional court has the power to appoint the senate to vote in an interim government.

Chalerm is the person you quoted and we all know the guy is full of shit.

He has quotes article 181 which is the same article that the government are in total violation of (see below).

Article 181.

The outgoing Council of

Ministers shall remain in office for carrying out

duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers

takes office but, in the case

of the vacation of office

under Article 180 (2),

Article 180.

Ministers vacate office

en masse

upon:

(1)

the termination of ministership of the

Prime Minister under Article 182;

(2)

the expiration of the term or the

dissolution of the House of Representatives;

(3) the resignation of the Council of Ministers.

In the case where the ministership of the

Prime Minister terminates under Article 182 (1), (2),

(3), (4), (5), (7), or (8

), the procedure under Article

172 and Article 173 shall apply

mutatis mutandis

.

So there you have it, their term has definitely expired and they have definitely dissolved the house of representatives.

So Chalerm conveniently omitted the important bit at the end of article 181 that leads you to the exception of article 180.

Nice try Chalerm, but we are little sharper than you hoped for.

You are assuming someone (Thai) is listening to you.

The constitutional court knows this and thus they'll most likely rule against the Poo administration. What the drunkard is doing is putting out false information first. Idiot reds will swallow his words like they come from Heaven itself. When the court rulesagainst Poo, the reds and their apologists will come out en mass and say the courts are unfair and against them blah blah blah. Very typical. Dishonest government leading a bunch of non thinking red sheep.

Edited March 4, 2014 by TVGerry

[Cricketnut]

Yingluck has alway adhered to the requirements of the Constitution, where the legal interpretation is the law of the land! The constitutional does not allow any non elected group to be appointed to lead the country!

Cheers

She like Suthep didn't show up at court for their respective hearings.. Is this not part of her constitutional duty, for as much as I admire her in some ways, she is no better then the rest of the bunch at times.... Disappointing

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jaywalker]

A couple guys with some common sense could/would/should come over with a couple cork-pop guns (maybe a couple .22 single shot rifles) and take over the country.

I've worked with the military there - in the USA at the moment - & they are the biggest joke I've ever seen.

I completely refuse to EVER work with Thai people EVER again. I can show them 99 ways to Sunday on how to do something better, and they IGNORE me.........Hired me to show them how to do it better, and ignored 99% of what I said.

It's like trying to pound brains into a rock with a sledge hammer.

I ain't saying the USA is any better. It just seems to be endemic in that politicians are all corrupt.

[SICHONSTEVE]

They are whingers. Won't contest elections but seize power every time to get in Parliament. Is this fair to the people of Thailand? Bunch of greed merchants the lot of them PDD included. Makes me sick to see Democratic princibles circumnavigated in such ways. You won't last Dems if you do get in power, just like in 2010, the people will revolt again and so they should. Tis not democracy, but a bunch of muppets...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If they were to get power then they must use it to tackle corruption and bring in fair reforms including to the courts and independent bodies. Something the PTP seem not to have bothered with.

Its not really a case of them getting into power - it is, as you imply to tackle corruption, sort out the police, and do what is necessary to ensure that the independent bodies remain independent and are changed if they are not so at the moment. The courts ARE independent and are doing their job well in difficult circumstances with the government breaking so many laws and ignoring the bits of the constitution that don't suit their corrupt activities (or slows them down in perpetrating them).

Then once this is done, free and fair elections can be held - with the relevant checks and balances in place to ensure that the winners govern fairly, honestly and with the interests of the electorate firmly at the helm in what they do and in how they behave!!!

[PepperMe]

Its all academic now. They may as well throw this government out. It is finished and there is no way in god's earth even if they had another 5 years in the job, they could even get close to fixing the damage they have caused.

Thaksin's political tenure is no longer acceptable in this country. He has proved himself everything that is bad with politicians.

On a separate note. Tingluck has clearly given up the fight. So much for willing to die on the battlefield of democracy. She has already bought a house next to Thaksin in Dubai and the Montenegro passport office has already issued her passport... Official breaking news. Just waiting for it to come out on the English speaking news sites.

Yingluck is already out of BKK for good, and she will never return, that is abandonment of office, she is not working, and she is not doing anything to sort the country's problems. The courts have no other choice but to have her removed.

[rabas]

A couple guys with some common sense could/would/should come over with a couple cork-pop guns (maybe a couple .22 single shot rifles) and take over the country.

I've worked with the military there - in the USA at the moment - & they are the biggest joke I've ever seen.

I completely refuse to EVER work with Thai people EVER again. I can show them 99 ways to Sunday on how to do something better, and they IGNORE me.........Hired me to show them how to do it better, and ignored 99% of what I said.

It's like trying to pound brains into a rock with a sledge hammer.

I ain't saying the USA is any better. It just seems to be endemic in that politicians are all corrupt.

Lol, you were not here long enough. Nothing said in Thailand is meant to be taken seriously. Just like in the current political situaltion, little that either side says is meant to be believed and the Thai all know this, but non-locals often go bouncing off walls.

Your work here should have gone like this,

"I want you to do this, and improve that."

"OK."

"Is it done yet?"

"Yes"

"Why do I see nothing?"

"It not done yet"

At this point you are supposed to respond "Good job".

And all is again happy.

Edited March 4, 2014 by rabas

[Fat Haggis]

Pepperme, you seem so confident the dems would win hand over fist, how about snap elections within 10 days, winner takes all, losers pack their backs and retire?

I don't think you'll find the Dems would fare well in The North and East as much as you would believe.

Can you stop going on about 'winner takes all'? It is not the way it is supposed to work in a real democracy (in contrast to a red one).

Winner takes all, as in they become the Governing body, and start to implement the running of the country correct me if I'm wrong on that part, seems to be the way in all the other countries that hold elections and there's been a winner declared.

A real democracy hold fair and impartial elections (not that that will ever be a realisitc scenario in Thailand)

Votes are cast, and the Majority, that is anyting above 51% are declared the winners.. losers then bitch and moan, and make up excuses..

Maybe you're idea of an election is what you wake up with every morning? I don't know..

Winner takes all is a figure of speech and they normally do take all

[bigbamboo]

He cited Article 181 of the Constitution, which states, "The outgoing Council of Ministers shall remain in office for performing duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers takes office."

About says it all, unfortunately.

Can they still be Ministers from their prison cell?

If they can be Prime Ministers from their desert retreat then why not.

T.I.T after all.

[pedro01]

A couple guys with some common sense could/would/should come over with a couple cork-pop guns (maybe a couple .22 single shot rifles) and take over the country.

I've worked with the military there - in the USA at the moment - & they are the biggest joke I've ever seen.

I completely refuse to EVER work with Thai people EVER again. I can show them 99 ways to Sunday on how to do something better, and they IGNORE me.........Hired me to show them how to do it better, and ignored 99% of what I said.

It's like trying to pound brains into a rock with a sledge hammer.

I ain't saying the USA is any better. It just seems to be endemic in that politicians are all corrupt.

Agreed - Thai people hate arrogance.

I have worked here for 15 years and they do just fine changing the way they do things.

I don't have a low opinion of them though.

[tezzainoz]

He cited Article 181 of the Constitution, which states, "The outgoing Council of Ministers shall remain in office for performing duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers takes office."

About says it all, unfortunately.

I believe the constitutional court has the power to appoint the senate to vote in an interim government.

Chalerm is the person you quoted and we all know the guy is full of shit.

He has quotes article 181 which is the same article that the government are in total violation of (see below).

Article 181.

The outgoing Council of

Ministers shall remain in office for carrying out

duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers

takes office but, in the case

of the vacation of office

under Article 180 (2),

Article 180.

Ministers vacate office

en masse

upon:

(1)

the termination of ministership of the

Prime Minister under Article 182;

(2)

the expiration of the term or the

dissolution of the House of Representatives;

(3) the resignation of the Council of Ministers.

In the case where the ministership of the

Prime Minister terminates under Article 182 (1), (2),

(3), (4), (5), (7), or (8

), the procedure under Article

172 and Article 173 shall apply

mutatis mutandis

.

So there you have it, their term has definitely expired and they have definitely dissolved the house of representatives.

So Chalerm conveniently omitted the important bit at the end of article 181 that leads you to the exception of article 180.

Nice try Chalerm, but we are little sharper than you hoped for.

Those silly Farlang

who taught them to think

we need to pass a law that only members of parliment under Taksin have the right to be able to thing

Or my name is not Snyder whiplash

Dam Suthep her thinks like Doodley Do Right

[Emster23]

The Constitution is like the bible here: you can find passages to justify about any position you want. Big enough holes in it to drive one of those run away buses through. I was hoping court would find government illegal, dissolve it, and then extending the logic, dissolving themselves as they are part of the government. Poof!

[ginjag]

Its all academic now. They may as well throw this government out. It is finished and there is no way in god's earth even if they had another 5 years in the job, they could even get close to fixing the damage they have caused.

Thaksin's political tenure is no longer acceptable in this country. He has proved himself everything that is bad with politicians.

On a separate note. Tingluck has clearly given up the fight. So much for willing to die on the battlefield of democracy. She has already bought a house next to Thaksin in Dubai and the Montenegro passport office has already issued her passport... Official breaking news. Just waiting for it to come out on the English speaking news sites.

Yingluck is already out of BKK for good, and she will never return, that is abandonment of office, she is not working, and she is not doing anything to sort the country's problems. The courts have no other choice but to have her removed.

Note to Yingluck, the flood waters are no longer threatening BKK, it's OK now.

[xminator]

The reference to 180 is not the caretaker government, its the elected government. The caretaker government will sit until a new government is selected. And that can only be done from an elected representative house of at least 475 members. Its easy to understand even if parts of the political landscape wish it to be different. The logical next step would be a fresh election if courts decide that the 2nd feb election is not finished within the time limits. There should be new leadership in the EC, its the EC responsibility to get election results.

Some say the Senate can elect a new government, but I have not seen what part of the constitution allow the Senate to do such a thing.

[wolfmanjack]

They are whingers. Won't contest elections but seize power every time to get in Parliament. Is this fair to the people of Thailand? Bunch of greed merchants the lot of them PDD included. Makes me sick to see Democratic princibles circumnavigated in such ways. You won't last Dems if you do get in power, just like in 2010, the people will revolt again and so they should. Tis not democracy, but a bunch of muppets...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Rubbish.... You know the Dems would piss any election if they participated.

They would have won the last one by a mile and some.

PTP 8 million votes? I bet that has almost halved since Feb 2nd.

The Dems abstained out of principle, but if they have to come in as interim government until a new election can be set up, then that will not exactly be a case of stealing government will it?

They would probably set up the next election to remove populism and vote buying... which is true democratic election standards, not the old election standards where vote buying and populism was acceptable.

We will see who wins the next proper election because the Feb 2nd one has been a failure, even without the disruptions by PCAD.... If they ever bother to complete them, it will show a massive NO MANDATE for the winners, and parliament will never be able to get a quorum.

No one from any party should be in the interim government.

It should be made up of neutral people selected by whomever can do such a thing and is deemed constitutional.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

He cited Article 181 of the Constitution, which states, "The outgoing Council of Ministers shall remain in office for performing duties until the newly appointed Council of Ministers takes office."

About says it all, unfortunately.

Can they still be Ministers from their prison cell?

Simply yes. The Senate has to oust them. Albeit it with someone already in prison it shouldn't take much of an argument to do so.

[Dogmatix]

The Dems are obviously going for dissolution of PT with one.

Thaksin was caretaker PM for about 7 months in 2006 due to the failed April elections that year, although he appointed a stand in for a short portion of that when he took leave. The 1997 Constitution was very similar to the current one but there was no legal challenge to his status that I recall, even though some people complained about it. I think the reason was that it was much more difficult to file petitions with the Constitutional Court before the court set the precedent recently that individuals can file cases with it directly, rather than go through the attorney-general. That has opened the flood gates for Constitutional Court cases and makes the legal environment for the current caretaker government far more hostile than it was for Thaksin in 2006. Then the coup seems the only way of getting rid of him. Now the lawyers are working overttime.